Possible puppy farm?

Taiga

Hi guys,

My bro and sis in law were on a waiting list for a puppy at the end of the month. The pup is a cross breed and they know it isn't from a registered breeder but it seemed to be a lady who cares about her dogs (their words, not mine). I've seen pics of the pups and they seem to be in a bed surrounded by straw and with heating lamps.

Great excitement about collecting it at the end of the month. The lady wouldn't let the pup go sooner as Christmas and mayhem happens and she said it isn't good for the pup and she doesn't home pups for Christmas presents. Sil was asked lots of questions initially and the lady said she'd put her on the list. Then she had a cancellation and rang sil saying they had a choice of two pups and could come look at them and choose on the 31st Dec.

They heard about this lady from a lady my sil works with who got a pup from her last year. She was happy with it, said she went to the location (1.5 hours from where we live) and saw the parents, living conditions etc.

Today sil got a call from the lady who said unfortunately she has had to put down 3 pups today as vet said they had neurological issues so no pup for them but she has a bitch due before Christmas so she could have one of those pups at the end of next Feb if she wants. They have paid €100 deposit and she offered her that back if she didn't want to go ahead. Pup will cost €450 in total.

I thinks it's a puppy farm. Might be a little comfier than some but sounds like a money maker to me.

Sil just rand there and is worried sick as she doesn't want to buy from a puppy farm and doesn't know what to do. I told her I'd ask the more knowledgeable folk here. Thanks guys, and sorry for the long post!

cocker5

Taiga wrote: »

Hi guys,

My bro and sis in law were on a waiting list for a puppy at the end of the month. The pup is a cross breed and they know it isn't from a registered breeder but it seemed to be a lady who cares about her dogs (their words, not mine). I've seen pics of the pups and they seem to be in a bed surrounded by straw and with heating lamps.

Great excitement about collecting it at the end of the month. The lady wouldn't let the pup go sooner as Christmas and mayhem happens and she said it isn't good for the pup and she doesn't home pups for Christmas presents. Sil was asked lots of questions initially and the lady said she'd put her on the list. Then she had a cancellation and rang sil saying they had a choice of two pups and could come look at them and choose on the 31st Dec.

They heard about this lady from a lady my sil works with who got a pup from her last year. She was happy with it, said she went to the location (1.5 hours from where we live) and saw the parents, living conditions etc.

Today sil got a call from the lady who said unfortunately she has had to put down 3 pups today as vet said they had neurological issues so no pup for them but she has a bitch due before Christmas so she could have one of those pups at the end of next Feb if she wants. They have paid €100 deposit and she offered her that back if she didn't want to go ahead. Pup will cost €450 in total.

I thinks it's a puppy farm. Might be a little comfier than some but sounds like a money maker to me.

Sil just rand there and is worried sick as she doesn't want to buy from a puppy farm and doesn't know what to do. I told her I'd ask the more knowledgeable folk here. Thanks guys, and sorry for the long post!

So the lady is a regular breeder then? As in she has numerous litters?

She had litters last year.. a current litter of which some have had to be PTS... and another one due??

And your SIL isn’t running a mile?
I’m just not sure how people can be so blind - sorry not trying to cause offence but this baffles me ..

€450 for a cross breed - what breeds?

My rescue full pedigree springer spaniel cost me €150 from a rescue centre and came vaccinated/ neutered!

Your correct tell them to walk away ..

Taiga

Thanks Cocker, yeah no-brainer. I'll show her your response and I reckon that'll do the job. We had said it to her over the past couple of weeks but she was convinced by the lady not giving pups for Christmas and she seemed to care. Some of her work colleagues have been onto her today also so hopefully she will run a mile. Bro seems a bit lax, says it's up to her.

I can't get the poor mothers out of my head, like a fcukin conveyor belt!

Cherry Blossom

If it’s not a puppy farm it’s certainly a back yard breeder as most deliberate cross breeds come from. The difference is just scale and the back yard breeder probably doesn’t have the licence larger scale operators are required to pay for. Ethically, there is no difference between the two. It couldn’t be more obvious this is an unethical operation. Tell your family members to run very fast and very far away.

Taiga

I've sent your reply on too Cherry, thank you. She's upset but hopefully will do the right thing.

tk123

They're always genuine/care about their dogs blah blah blah.. But usually people want a dog and they want it now so they don't want to listen.

Just to give an idea - I was supposed to be getting a pup next month but not happening now as there was a problem .. I was put ahead of 10 other people on this list because by chance my friend is kind of related to the breeder (long story) but I had gone through the breed club and it was a just coincidence. (so seemed like it was meat to be ) I'm now on a different breeders list and will be looking at April before I get the pup all going well. Reputable breeders don't have a running stock of puppies - they take names while they're planning a litter and their lists fill up fast so I would question anyone that has puppies that weren't already booked.

There is nothing wrong with buying a pup but it's the buyers responsibility to make sure they're coming from a reputable breeder and not somebody churning out puppies to make some extra tax free cash. My friend has been trying to rescue for over a year now - lots of people are in the same situation and get fed up waiting.. but there's been posts here recently where posters are heartbroken because their puppies have been pts or diagnosed with progressive illnesses and have no support or compassion from the breeders.

bertiebomber

go to a rescue for gods sake they barely charge enough to cover the neuter & fleas treatments not for profit . Any dog over 500 euro is a puppy farm, dogs are so inflated at the moment.. Please wait a bit as they are being surrendered a lot, up 70% surrender already as the covid pups \are now teenagers and not wanted anymore. if you are patient and dont require the pup on xmas day you will benefit from the fools who paids 1000's for pups mark my word. After xmas the rescues will be over loaded.

irish_goat

Sounds like a small scale puppy farm. Your brother will have over the money and the breeder will have another batch of pups on sale in a few months time.

Taiga

I rang them this morning, bro wants to cancel but sil says she's worried about the puppies welfare and if she takes one at least she can help it. Chr1st. I'll keep ye posted, I really hope she changes her mind.

Just to clarify, it's not for me, I already have two rescues.

tk123

She could take it and live happily ever after or it could have health issues that will break her heart and wallet. It’s a tough one. It’s not as easy as just going to a rescue as people might like to think - the pandemic has kind of stopped that in its tracks depending on the rescue. My friend has been looking for a puppy for over a year now from various rescues and has hit a brick wall and she's not looking for anything crazy. As for them being full of unwanted puppies in the new year? I don’t know if that’ll be the case - people forking out huge amounts of money for a pup are probably more likely to sell them on rather than hand them over to a pound.

Again, there’s nothing wrong with buying a pup but you need to do your research on health/behavioural issues associated with the breed as well as the breeder. Your best best on price would be to call the breed club and ask their advice on what you should be expecting to pay. Their costs include stud fees, health checks, medical expenses etc which varies based on breed.

cocker5

Taiga wrote: »

I rang them this morning, bro wants to cancel but sil says she's worried about the puppies welfare and if she takes one at least she can help it. Chr1st. I'll keep ye posted, I really hope she changes her mind.

Just to clarify, it's not for me, I already have two rescues.

Have you said to your sister by her buying this pup she is facilitating this horrible practice/ industry?

Supply and demand and she is adding to it?

Think of the mother she’s leaving behind? Left no doubt to have numerous future litters?

Knine

bertiebomber wrote: »

go to a rescue for gods sake they barely charge enough to cover the neuter & fleas treatments not for profit . Any dog over 500 euro is a puppy farm, dogs are so inflated at the moment.. Please wait a bit as they are being surrendered a lot, up 70% surrender already as the covid pups \are now teenagers and not wanted anymore. if you are patient and dont require the pup on xmas day you will benefit from the fools who paids 1000's for pups mark my word. After xmas the rescues will be over loaded.

Are you for real? How many quality puppies have you bred, paid large stud fees for, paid for health testing, prefix fees, registration fees, IKC membership, vet fees, vaccinations, worming, whelping supplies quality puppy & mother food, puppy packs & then cleaning supplies & your time spent looking after them until 8 weeks. Do you know how much an out of hours C Section costs?

A small breed - you might be lucky to get 3 pups!

Not all rescues are Knights in Shining Armour either. My Club was involved in shutting down one!

bertiebomber

Knine wrote: »

Are you for real? How many quality puppies have you bred, paid large stud fees for, paid for health testing, prefix fees, registration fees, IKC membership, vet fees, vaccinations, worming, whelping supplies quality puppy & mother food, puppy packs & then cleaning supplies & your time spent looking after them until 8 weeks. Do you know how much an out of hours C Section costs?

A small breed - you might be lucky to get 3 pups!

Not all rescues are Knights in Shining Armour either. My Club was involved in shutting down one!

We bred and showed miniature dachshunds 30 years ago so i do know what i am saying and i know what you are saying too. To be honest the kennel club the rescues the breeders good and bad are all in it for big bucks. We didnt selll our dogs we showed them and they lived with us all 12 of them till they died as we didnt think anyone would treat them well enough.


Today i have rescue greyhound & a rescue Bernese she cost 1800 euro in 2009 and i was asked to just take her as she was big and hairy and had a broken foot untreated and calcified. Today she is a therapy dog, getting on for sure but has brought happiness to many ill and infirmed elderly people and young people with brain injuries. She only cost me her veterinary treatment a small amputation of her toe & her shots and health check and ongoing meds for aging dog.



When you are paying 1000, 1500, 2000 2400 someone is trousering a nice pay day whatever you say & they dont really care who buys the dog as long as the cash is fresh from the ATM.

Taiga

Taiga wrote: »

I rang them this morning, bro wants to cancel but sil says she's worried about the puppies welfare and if she takes one at least she can help it. Chr1st. I'll keep ye posted, I really hope she changes her mind.

Just to clarify, it's not for me, I already have two rescues.

Your brother would be better calling the ispca and reporting it. That would be looking after their welfare

Buddy Bubs

Can't see why a licence to sell dogs and other animals isn't a thing. Licence it, tax it. Restrict number of licences. It would be reported in a heartbeat if there were breaches and illegal trading.

cocker5

Buddy Bubs wrote: »

Can't see why a licence to sell dogs and other animals isn't a thing. Licence it, tax it. Restrict number of licences. It would be reported in a heartbeat if there were breaches and illegal trading.

Majority of Puppy farms are licensed.. the government approves most of them .. shocking as it sounds

bertiebomber

<Defamatory, Racist comment removed>

Knine

bertiebomber wrote: »

this government is really run by a half indian / pakistani irish person he sees no wrong in the greyhound crisis and continues to fund them he has no empathy, he is an autistic person thence all dog &* horse racing continued during the lockdown behind closed doors for gambling only, thats all money. Absolutely not essential. Our government are soo busy spinning stories and trying to look good they dont give a monkies about animal welfare they sway whatever way a vote comes.

Wow.

I dunno what to actually say about this post!

bertiebomber

Knine wrote: »

Wow.

I dunno what to actually say about this post!

well there is nothing to say its all true Vradkar is a robot.

DBB

bertiebomber wrote: »

this government is really run by a half indian / pakistani irish person he sees no wrong in the greyhound crisis and continues to fund them he has no empathy, he is an autistic person thence all dog &* horse racing continued during the lockdown behind closed doors for gambling only, thats all money. Absolutely not essential. Our government are soo busy spinning stories and trying to look good they dont give a monkies about animal welfare they sway whatever way a vote comes.

Bertiebomber, I can't find polite words strong enough to pull you up for this post.
I know we've had to call you out before for saying things that bear no relevance and are sailing very close to the wind in terms of respect, and defamation.
This is your final warning bertiebomber. If I see any more of this sort of uninhibited scutter from you, you will be banned from the forum.
For now, do not post in this thread again.
Thanks,
DBB

coathanger

Taiga wrote: »

Hi guys,

My bro and sis in law were on a waiting list for a puppy at the end of the month. The pup is a cross breed and they know it isn't from a registered breeder but it seemed to be a lady who cares about her dogs (their words, not mine). I've seen pics of the pups and they seem to be in a bed surrounded by straw and with heating lamps.

Great excitement about collecting it at the end of the month. The lady wouldn't let the pup go sooner as Christmas and mayhem happens and she said it isn't good for the pup and she doesn't home pups for Christmas presents. Sil was asked lots of questions initially and the lady said she'd put her on the list. Then she had a cancellation and rang sil saying they had a choice of two pups and could come look at them and choose on the 31st Dec.

They heard about this lady from a lady my sil works with who got a pup from her last year. She was happy with it, said she went to the location (1.5 hours from where we live) and saw the parents, living conditions etc.

Today sil got a call from the lady who said unfortunately she has had to put down 3 pups today as vet said they had neurological issues so no pup for them but she has a bitch due before Christmas so she could have one of those pups at the end of next Feb if she wants. They have paid €100 deposit and she offered her that back if she didn't want to go ahead. Pup will cost €450 in total.

I thinks it's a puppy farm. Might be a little comfier than some but sounds like a money maker to me.

Sil just rand there and is worried sick as she doesn't want to buy from a puppy farm and doesn't know what to do. I told her I'd ask the more knowledgeable folk here. Thanks guys, and sorry for the long post!

Tell your sister to steer clear, €450 for a crossbreed or mongrel ! Madness !!
Ask her to approach a local rescue & offer to foster a dog , & donate the €450 to the rescue , that would be a great help with their food & vet bills .
Whilst fostering they might find a dog that is the perfect fit for their family.
Also ask your sil in to check out the county council website in the area where this breeder is located , she may well see their name on the Register of Dog Breeding Establishments.
That’s a real eye opener I can tell u .
Photos/ situations can be staged for the buyer , ie nice clean straw & heat lamps ! Far better to have the pups in a safe corner of the kitchen to get them used to day to day noises of living with a family in a family home.
I hope your sil sees sense ...

Taiga

cocker5 wrote: »

Have you said to your sister by her buying this pup she is facilitating this horrible practice/ industry?

Supply and demand and she is adding to it?

Think of the mother she’s leaving behind? Left no doubt to have numerous future litters?

Oh I have Cocker, she said her co-workers have too. My bro said this morning she's been crying over it but is coming to the realisation that it's the wrong thing to do. A relief, but not for those poor dogs. Got my little woman from a rescue, spayed before I could collect her. Fantastic stuff, I couldn't imagine her being used like that:(

Taiga

cocker5 wrote: »

Majority of Puppy farms are licensed.. the government approves most of them .. shocking as it sounds

What?:eek: I didn't know that. That makes me very sad.

cocker5

Taiga wrote: »

What?:eek: I didn't know that. That makes me very sad.

I know it’s shocking we are the puppy farming capital of Europe.. within over 100 legal farms .. they approve large scale places with up to 300 breeding bitches (Cavan is a hot spot but they are all over Ireland)

The type of breeding as per original post is more than likely a back yard breeder with 2/3 breeding bitches - no difference really between them when it comes down to it ..

cocker5

Taiga wrote: »

Oh I have Cocker, she said her co-workers have too. My bro said this morning she's been crying over it but is coming to the realisation that it's the wrong thing to do. A relief, but not for those poor dogs. Got my little woman from a rescue, spayed before I could collect her. Fantastic stuff, I couldn't imagine her being used like that:(

You cannot do anymore you’ve given them all the information you can .. while infuriating they will do what the want x you’ve tried your best here

Taiga

Thanks Cocker, it is frustrating because here you have someone that now knows the situation but has still been hesitant. It will never stop with people so willing to hand over cash to them.

cocker5

Taiga wrote: »

Thanks Cocker, it is frustrating because here you have someone that now knows the situation but has still been hesitant. It will never stop with people so willing to hand over cash to them.

Your 100% correct it’s all down to supply and demand ..

If ‘stupid’ people continue to purchases these dogs - there is money to be made ..the industry will continue

I use the word stupid because in 2020 there is NO excuse for being blind sided or not knowing .. everywhere there is information daily re: puppy’s farms and back yards breeders .. it’s everywhere.. people choose to ignore it ..

As most people want a puppy like ‘now’ and are not prepared to wait and go through a reputable breeder and wait for their pup .. it’s very sad for all the mothers and fathers used in this trade and for all the poorly bred pups .. but people still don’t care enough to wait or go via a rescue ..

anewme

I'm following every rescue in the country for the past six to eight months and its virtually impossible to get a puppy. You dont even get a reply as they get so many applications.

What is worrying though is that people are taking a puppy, any puppy instead of getting the right fit.

I would consider a reputable breeder, but I've no idea who is good or bad, I don't know anyone in the business, so it's hard to figure out and is not always obvious.

I'd hate to support back yard breeder or puppy farmer in any way.

tk123

anewme wrote: »

I'm following every rescue in the country for the past six to eight months and its virtually impossible to get a puppy. You dont even get a reply as they get so many applications.

My friend has been looking for over a year! I cringe at some of the rescues shes following and supporting on FB with donations she can’t afford eg rescues who have had FB pages set up to exposed them(!)

The best way to find a reputable breeder is through the breed club - this ensures the breeders are following a code of ethics and are only breeding from dogs who are fully health checked and screened including genetic testing. The problem atm is that they’re also inundated with tyre kickers.

anewme

tk123 wrote: »

My friend has been looking for over a year! I cringe at some of the rescues shes following and supporting on FB with donations she can’t afford eg rescues who have had FB pages set up to exposed them(!)

The best way to find a reputable breeder is through the breed club - this ensures the breeders are following a code of ethics and are only breeding from dogs who are fully health checked and screened including genetic testing. The problem atm is that they’re also inundated with tyre kickers.

I know exactly who is who and if you remember there was one here too!.

Its s not all one sided rescue is good and breeder is bad.

I'd just clearly hate to be missing something obvious that people in the know, know, if that makes sense.

Highroad12

Taiga wrote: »

Hi guys,

My bro and sis in law were on a waiting list for a puppy at the end of the month. The pup is a cross breed and they know it isn't from a registered breeder but it seemed to be a lady who cares about her dogs (their words, not mine). I've seen pics of the pups and they seem to be in a bed surrounded by straw and with heating lamps.

Great excitement about collecting it at the end of the month. The lady wouldn't let the pup go sooner as Christmas and mayhem happens and she said it isn't good for the pup and she doesn't home pups for Christmas presents. Sil was asked lots of questions initially and the lady said she'd put her on the list. Then she had a cancellation and rang sil saying they had a choice of two pups and could come look at them and choose on the 31st Dec.

They heard about this lady from a lady my sil works with who got a pup from her last year. She was happy with it, said she went to the location (1.5 hours from where we live) and saw the parents, living conditions etc.

Today sil got a call from the lady who said unfortunately she has had to put down 3 pups today as vet said they had neurological issues so no pup for them but she has a bitch due before Christmas so she could have one of those pups at the end of next Feb if she wants. They have paid €100 deposit and she offered her that back if she didn't want to go ahead. Pup will cost €450 in total.

I thinks it's a puppy farm. Might be a little comfier than some but sounds like a money maker to me.

Sil just rand there and is worried sick as she doesn't want to buy from a puppy farm and doesn't know what to do. I told her I'd ask the more knowledgeable folk here. Thanks guys, and sorry for the long post!

Is the breeder in Wexford by any chance?

Fakediamond

coathanger wrote: »

Tell your sister to steer clear, €450 for a crossbreed or mongrel ! Madness !!
Ask her to approach a local rescue & offer to foster a dog , & donate the €450 to the rescue , that would be a great help with their food & vet bills .
Whilst fostering they might find a dog that is the perfect fit for their family.
Also ask your sil in to check out the county council website in the area where this breeder is located , she may well see their name on the Register of Dog Breeding Establishments.
That’s a real eye opener I can tell u .
Photos/ situations can be staged for the buyer , ie nice clean straw & heat lamps ! Far better to have the pups in a safe corner of the kitchen to get them used to day to day noises of living with a family in a family home.
I hope your sil sees sense ...

As far as I know, councils won’t publish the lists of licensed puppy farms anymore, using the excuse of “data protection”. It’s given them yet another layer of protection from scrutiny. Disgraceful carry on and brings shame on our councils and on our country’s reputation internationally. :mad:

Taiga

Highroad12 wrote: »

Is the breeder in Wexford by any chance?

No, Cork.

JustAThought

At least she did the right thing by putting them down but of course the suspicion is that she got an offer of a much better price for Christmas and sold them elsewhere higher. Dogs selling for 1k up and prices tracking back up for the Christmas ‘market’ to 2k+ for retrievers - unbelievable really.

The big Wicklow/Dublin/Galway /Kildare/Meath rescue shelters say they are inundated with abandoned dogs and requests yet the same few lurcher/collie and restricted breed mix dogs have been on their fb pages and websites for over 6 months + now. It is impossible to get a sensible response from the big 3 rescues in Dublin one of which says it is their policy that they will not adopt young dogs/puppies out to families WITHOUT children.

So long as ‘reputable breeders’ continue to
say their dogs are showdogs and the best examples of their pedigrees and expect fees in thousands for a dog and it is near impossible to plan to get a family pet of your semi choice from a rescue people will continue to buy online where the fees though extortinate are nowhere as extortinate as the fees expected by IKC professional dog owners & breeders.

Doubtless it is a great thing to rescue a dog but equally people do not necessarily want someone elses abandoned/discarded pet which often by the stage it gets to a rescue has not been socialised properly or been mistreated and has lifelong lasting complexes and issues.


It is clear also from tracking websites that rescues are being routinely used as dumping grounds for breeders who do not manage to sell
their ‘puppies’ while they are young and cute or whose experimental greyhound/lurchers do
not pass the grade for speed tests/racing potential.

We seriously need to look at a model for
pet ownership in this country that bridges the
gulf between private puppy purchasing versus dog farms vs rescuing. There has to be countries that have a better and more successful model than ours and a universal vet check that has to be provided at point of advertisement or sale so
you have a hope of knowing the dog is safe and healthy before parting with a thousand euro
in someones kitchen to get the dog of your choosing when it is still young enough to be trained and socialised and can be trained and trusted with your family/children.

Out government has actively supported a family who have over 300 breeding bitches in Cavan - how in the name of God can this be right? And how can the likes of all the bleeting politicians who routinely go on about rights issues and humanity and left wing militancy preside over this without a murmer while BBC and other media are doing under cover exposes on the horrific conditions the breeding bitches and pups are kept in. It just beggars belief.

biko

As long as people keep buying from these puppy farms they will stay in business.

JustAThought

biko wrote: »

As long as people keep buying from these puppy farms they will stay in business.

As long as there is no other method of buying a puppy in the breed of your choice to train and socialise from 12 weeks up there is little alternative.

What do other countries do?

Here we have the classic dilemma. Person wants a specific puppy, orders one from a breeder known to the family who someone else has successfully bought a healthy similar pup from a few years back - and now is being guilted into taking an older dog possibly with lifelong feaars or socialisation/training issues possibly a different breed to the one they wanted and would suit their needs/family. CLASSIC .

Surely other countries have evolved a better system than ours. Where has successful models for choosing and buying a puppy? I’d genuinely love to know.

anewme

Like others, I am finding it difficult to get a puppy. I did some research and enquired after a registered breeder. I came across one that I was very happy with, genuine family puppies with all the health checks done - IKC reg.

€2,800.

Is that normal?

I have been applying for rescue puppies for months - they are like gold dust and it is disheartening when you dont get a response.
Im not even pushed on breed - a good old JRT or terrier cross would fit the bill.

The only reason I want a puppy is that they could be trained to my lifestyle from the get go, where an older dog might not want to adapt. Im talking more post covid, when we go back to the office.Other than that, if the right one came for me, Id happily take an older dog. Ive left my details with many rescues.

biko

biko wrote: »

As long as people keep buying from these puppy farms they will stay in business.

I guess the solution is to regulate properly and inspect the breeders. There's nothing in shelters only abused greyhounds mostly. Not everyone wants a big dog with an unknown past.

tk123

anewme wrote: »

Like others, I am finding it difficult to get a puppy. I did some research and enquired after a registered breeder. I came across one that I was very happy with, genuine family puppies with all the health checks done - IKC reg.

€2,800.

Is that normal?
.

I would say it would abnormal for any reputable breeder to have puppies available right now.. did a breed club give you the contact details or have you found them yourself? Always go through the breed club.

JustAThought

tk123 wrote: »

I would say it would abnormal for any reputable breeder to have puppies available right now.. did a breed club give you the contact details or have you found them yourself? Always go through the breed club.

why would you say that? Dogs come into heat and are covered - there is an insatiable appetite for puppies during the lockdown - why would a breeder NOT have pups during this huge surge in demand? When the dog may only come into heat or be auited to having a litter once a year?

As for the 2.2K pricetag for an IKC & registered breeder - this is exactly why puppy farms exist - because most people don’t want a best in show pedigree prizewinner - they ‘just’ want a specific breed and don’t want to pay the earth for the puppies grannies rosettes and prize line of awards since the 1900’s.

Currently it seems the going rate for a ‘puppy’ off the internet from God knows who regardles ls of mix, IKC regrisration or breed is about 1 1/2 thousand euro - give or take. Eyewatering. But most specific IKC breeders in the past would have been demanding at least three times this for their prizewinning pooches puppies for ‘ ‘pets’ in the past - pre-covid - and sneer down their noses any anyone who dared say it was too much. The secretaries in the IKC are lovely people but only give a few names of their ‘prefered’ registered breeders and typically the prices all more or less match - from my experiences dealing with them at least. This leaves Joe Bloggs who just wants a specific pet left either going to the internet or trying his luck with the russian roulette of rescues and aomeones abandoned older dog with God knows what dreadful past experiences, lack of socialising, biting habit or mental issues.

No wonder small time hobby breeders - registered or not and puppy factories are thriving.

In Ireland, despite all the lip service to animal industries and animal welfare, There seems to be no managed solution to buying a puppy of your choice - and it has been this way since the 1980’s. The big difference is that it is now more accessible and visible on the internet.

I would also add that if/when the prices dip back to more managable pre-Christmas and pre Covid prices of 4-600 euro for a mix/mutt/whatever off whomever on the internet that the rescues are still going to be faced with the dilema that they are asking for a donation of e250 or so and now some of the major rescues are making it a condition that you oay for and attend their dog training classes for the rescued dog - another e-150-200. Which makes it all the harder to justify a spend on a second hand, possibly traumatised and damaged dog - adult - that may never recover or be trainable out of its neurotic habbits - when you can go to the internet and buy a brand new fully trainable never had issues never been mistreated or abused or bitten puppy of your choosing - all of your own to love and nurture from the start.

Until we find a model that works this will continue. Bad for the dogs, bad for the breeding bitches and bad for the volunteers that are heartbroken trying to save dogs their don’t give a F*** owners think is OK to toss away when they are bored or inconvienenced by or just not bothered to love and cherish anymore. And lets face it - thats what happens to most dogs that end up in rescues - halfwit selfish owners who think the issues they created and the damage they did to their beautiful
little pet is someone elses issue and not their responsibility.

Cherry Blossom

Reputable breeders (no inverted commas necessary) do not breed to meet demand, they breed to improve and keep their own line going and because they want a puppy for themselves. JAT I’m going to guess you have never actually bought a puppy from a reputable breeder as you demonstrate in your posts that you haven’t a clue what you are talking about. The price of a puppy depends on the breed mostly but most are not anything like 4 figures. People are not breeding at the moment because COVID restrictions make it difficult for strangers and friends alike to visit their home. I visited my pup three times 2 hours away before I brought him home. Conditions at the moment are not optimal for socialising pups which is so important to their development into well adjusted dogs. I paid around £600 stg for my health tested puppy from show and working lines and although this was some years ago the price is still typical for the breed, when people are breeding which they aren’t at the minute. There is so much misinformation in some of the above posts, it’s scary.

tk123

JustAThought wrote: »

why would you say that? Dogs come into heat and are covered - there is an insatiable appetite for puppies during the lockdown - why would a breeder NOT have pups during this huge surge in demand? When the dog may only come into heat or be auited to having a litter once a year?
.

Because reputable breeders didn't breed during lockdown so as not to break restrictions. They also have waiting lists - so there's no spare pups.. therefore anyone with pups right now isn't a member of any club. I'm on a list now for a breeder who's at the planning stages - the dog won't be in heat until some time in Jan.

As for the prices - you do realise that the breed clubs cap the price of puppies? It's cheaper to get a retriever pup at least from a reputable breed club breeder atm than from a backyard breeder. Registering pups doesn't make a breeder reputable either.

You seem to have a massive chip on your shoulder about what you think a reputable (vs registered) breeder is and also rescue dogs.

Also I would never think or refer anyone's pet as being a reject because they came from a rescue but that's the tone I get from your posts.

Cherry Blossom

Also just to add, I’ve no idea what people mean when they refer to registered breeders. Do people mean registered dogs? Puppy farms and BYBs can also register their dogs. Do they mean the breeder has a kennel club affix? Again this is easy to obtain and does not make someone reputable.

The IKC do not register people, they register dogs and at the end of the day they are just a dog registry. Although it is one box to tick it is by no means the be all of buying a dog.

Knine

As a Reputable Breeder I can tell you that €2800 is definitely not normal & my dogs are top winners, health tested. None of us have put up our prices & anyone that does is to be avoided.

What I will say is that I am inundated with inquiries. I also find that people want a puppy & want one now! They don't want to wait & will go anywhere & pay huge sums of money for basically poor quality dogs. I normally have lots of visitors to socialise any young puppies & at the moment it is very difficult to do that to the standard I want as I also live with very vulnerable family members.

And Just a Thought - My bitch is just out of heat & not covered. You are really confused about what a Reputable Breeder actually is!,

JustAThought

Before you make any more sweeping and entirely incorrect generalisations about me CB I suggest you stop.

No doubt you are the perfect pet owner who has 100% insight into everything to do with the industry and did everything perfectly but I suggest you look at the trends and the prices of puppies for sale online at the moment.

They may have been taken off DD but have entirely migrated to the two other major online Irish sales channels and there are today twenty pages of IKC and mostly registered puppies for sale at typically one and a half thousand per puppy, rising to two thousand eight hundred for a litter of 5 white IKC retrievers - posted new today. This excludes the ‘higher end’ and ‘speciality’ dogs like bulldogs and Bernese Mountain Dogs and Great Danes which are all coming in in excess of two or three thousand per puppy. All Irish dogs and mutt mixes or breeds although the same breeds and trends are visible on the equivalent N.I site.

As anyone can observe in the parks and beaches there has never been more puppies out walking - I wonder with the license fee next year reflect this.

Idealogy is one thing, the reality screams something totally different. And your figure is totally out of kilter in the current market - and for anyone I know including myself who has bought a IKC ‘professionally bred’ registered puppy .

anewme

tk123 wrote: »

Registering pups doesn't make a breeder reputable either.

This is my ultimate concern.

I will also say like someone else in the post said, the world of rescue is not perfect either.

Knine

JustAThought wrote: »

Before you make any more sweeping and entirely incorrect generalisations about me CB I suggest you stop.

No doubt you are the perfect pet owner who has 100% insight into everything to do with the industry and did everything perfectly but I suggest you look at the trends and the prices of puppies for sale online at the moment.

They may have been taken off DD but have entirely migrated to the two other major online Irish sales channels and there are today twenty pages of IKC and mostly registered puppies for sale at typically one and a half thousand per puppy, rising to two thousand eight hundred for a litter of 5 white IKC retrievers - posted new today. This excludes the ‘higher end’ and ‘speciality’ dogs like bulldogs and Bernese Mountain Dogs and Great Danes which are all coming in in excess of two or three thousand per puppy. All Irish dog ls although the same breeds and trends are visible on the equivalent N.I site.

As anyone can observe in the parks and beaches there has never been more puppies out walking - I wonder with the license fee next year reflect this.

Idealogy is one thing, the reality screams something totally different. And your figure is totally out of kilter in the current market - and for anyone I know including myself who has bought a IKC ‘professionally bred’ registered puppy .

You need to be more careful where you are buying your puppies! IKC reg does not mean Reputable! I represent my Breed for the IKC & K can tell you we are all appalled at the current prices of dogs but you won't find any of us on the online buying sites.

Cherry Blossom

JustAThought those advert sites are and always have been full of scammers, puppy farmers and backyard breeders. We have always advised on this forum that they should be avoided at all costs. You refer to ‘professional breeders’ this is a term puppy farmers use to describe themselves. As I already said there are no reputable breeders breeding at present (or very very few) and you will never see them advertising anyway. Once again registered does not equal reputable.

JustAThought

CB - professional breeders are just that - breeders that breed for money. I bought via a Professional Breeder, registered to the IKC and whose business of breeding and selling puppies was registered to the IKC and who had him on their list of being a registered and compliant breeder on their books. This did not make them any better or worse than any other IKC registered breeder also selling on the internet. I am well aware of the scams around IKC paperwork but also that there is a premium placed on pricing for dogs that are IKC registered. Shored up by the society/charity itself. The extortinate prices online we are seeing now is nothing compared to the normal extortinate prices showdogs breeders have been demanding for years - usually in excess of thousands. The small breeders and puppy farms do not come close to the prices they have been demanding for years - shielded and abetted by the professionals and volunteers in the Irish kennel Club. The sanctimonious holier than thou attitude of them is and rocket high pricing structure is one of the reasons that puppy farms and small breeders have been able to continue and thrive for so many years.


As for the myth that breeders are just breeding for the love of the gene pool or to keep the oerfect showline going and are doing it at a basic rate - the eye watering prices being asked for years belies this. But then again no doubt all the posters here give away their showdogs bred puppies at cost and never ever want a profit.

So far on this thread we have had the backyard breeders are all bad rhetoric (& many large scale ones are), the ‘buy from a reputable breeder’ rhetoric - no clarification on how an outside defines or clarifies or checks this, the IKC is good rhetoric and the IKC is not good rhetoric - along with the rhetoric that real breeders do it for love and not for money. No wonder the buying public is confused.

I’m still asking and noone has yet been able to advise - what successful models do other countries use to buy and sell puppies to the general public without either the breeding bitches, puppies or buyers being totally exploited.

Cherry Blossom

JAT - you bought a dog from a puppy farm and you have a nerve to be preaching about other people being holier than thou?


Anyways, there is only so long one can play chess with a pigeon before pulling ones own hair out. So I’m out.

JustAThought

No CB - I bought from an IKC registered breeder registered with the Kennel Club and on their breeders list.

But you just busy yourself with telling yourself you are a great breeder and do it only for love and everyone else is a monster.

Still no reply - including from the self professed showdog breeders for love not money on the site here - of how the puppy industry is regulated - properly in other countries so that this mess of people screaming at each other and trying to puppy shame for how people choose to buy a IKC registered and allegedly controlled papered up or just old fashioned puppy is not the general descent into absurdity we usually have. No wonder so many people just buy online and not have to put up with this nonsense.

OP - tell your friend to do exactly what suits them so long as the dog is checked to be healthy and has their vacs and seems to have been well treated aNd kindly handled and mixed in a household - too many vested interests and screamers and absolute purchasing absurdities involved otherwise.