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COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

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    #8132
    Russman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,851 ✭✭✭Russman


    The health minister on TV last night was saying that the UK approval is for emergency use and that every batch of vaccine they get must be checked for quality, whereas he said the EU approval is for a different kind of authorisation for general use. Presumably if true this is why the EMA will take a little longer ?


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    #8133
    NaFirinne
    Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭NaFirinne


    Does anyone know how these new RNA vaccines actually work?


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    #8134
    funnydoggy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭funnydoggy


    NaFirinne wrote: »
    Does anyone know how these new RNA vaccines actually work?


    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/mrna.html


    Fascinating stuff!


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    #8135
    Hmmzis
    Registered Users Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭Hmmzis


    Moderna have sent in some interim longitudal data from phase 1 about the vaccine's durability:

    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2032195

    The graphs are looking quite good to me, the RBD ELISA values are rock solid. There are some decliners in the various neutralization assays but overall it's looking rather good to me.

    This bit from their submission is rather interesting:
    At day 119, the binding and neutralizing GMTs exceeded the median GMTs in a panel of 41 controls who were convalescing from Covid-19, with a median of 34 days since diagnosis (range, 23 to 54).

    It's cautiously hinting at the vaccine providing a better immune response than a wild type infection, with the caveat that the cellular responses are still being investigated.


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    #8136
    Pasteur.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 256 ✭✭Pasteur.


    Irish Stones wrote: »
    Why does Fauci say that?
    If the EMA or FDA are going to approve the Pfizer vaccine anyway, where's the problem to have it approved a couple of week earlier?

    It was a bad idea to come out with that after UK approval


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    #8137
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    NaFirinne wrote: »
    Does anyone know how these new RNA vaccines actually work?
    I'm not an expert, but in simple terms RNA is a delivery mechanism for vaccines to help your body recognise the virus and respond to it.

    In the past vaccines have often been either viruses with the dangerous element deactivated, or have been very mild versions of real virus.

    The Oxford vaccine is delivered on the back of another mild virus. This is newish technology but has been used in Ebola vaccines which are working well.

    mRNA is simpler still. The vaccine makers study the virus, identify the small bit which is important for the immune system to recognise, and then sends your body a blueprint of what that piece looks like. Your body generates small amounts from this blueprint, and your immune system recognises it as foreign and learn to defeat it. It's very simple technology ultimately, but it needed a few breakthroughs. They hope the same technology can be used to train your body to recognise cancers in the future.


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    #8138
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,896 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    mRNA (messenger RNA) is a sequence of genes with instructions for ribosomes in your cells to make a certain protein. In the case of the vaccine, the "spike protein" that the virus uses to enter cells. This triggers the immune system to create antibodies against the spike protein.


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    #8139
    timsey tiger
    Registered Users Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭timsey tiger


    ShineOn7 wrote: »
    Can we, for love of all that is holy, stop sending RTE traffic?

    The Irish Times is a great resource if you want to keep it Irish

    And, although it's not Irish, the Guardian website is superb

    It is a bit tiresome reading stuff in the IT, having read it a week before in the Guardian. Esp. when paying for the IT and the app. has no search function.


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    #8140
    Micky 32
    Registered Users Posts: 6,556 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    I see that president elect Joe Biden and Obama, Bush and Clinton are going to get inoculated on camera to help ease peoples fears of the vaccine safety.


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    #8141
    iguana
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,909 Mod ✭✭✭✭iguana


    And as far as I understand it, the scope with mRNA vaccines is enormous. Not just for infectious diseases, but a very powerful tool in fighting cancer. I suspect that in the future when this pandemic is looked back on, the acceleration of mRNA vaccine technology will be viewed as a major positive to come out of it.


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    #8142
    BrianD3
    Registered Users Posts: 8,289 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    This must be the questionnaire that I referred to earlier. There were two - ECDC and HSC, we didn't respond to the latter.

    https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/Overview-of-EU_EEA-UK-vaccination-deployment-plans.pdf
    On 16 November 2020, the Health Security and Vaccination unit of the EC’s Directorate-General for Health and
    Food Safety sent a survey using the EU Survey online tool to Members of the HSC for an update on EU Member
    States’ implementation of the Commission Communication on Preparedness for COVID-19 Vaccination Strategies
    and Vaccine Deployment. The survey included a total of 18 closed and open-ended questions on technical and
    logistical aspects of country vaccine deployment plans
    Twenty five of 27 EU Member States responded to the HSC survey (Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Czechia, Croatia,
    Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, the
    Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden).

    I have only very quickly skimmed through the linked document - as we didn't respond to the HSC questionnaire there appear to be fewer details in the document regarding our preparations compared to other countries. Some alarm bells going off here.


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    #8143
    NaFirinne
    Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭NaFirinne


    hmmm wrote: »
    I'm not an expert, but in simple terms RNA is a delivery mechanism for vaccines to help your body recognise the virus and respond to it.

    In the past vaccines have often been either viruses with the dangerous element deactivated, or have been very mild versions of real virus.

    The Oxford vaccine is delivered on the back of another mild virus. This is newish technology but has been used in Ebola vaccines which are working well.

    mRNA is simpler still. The vaccine makers study the virus, identify the small bit which is important for the immune system to recognise, and then sends your body a blueprint of what that piece looks like. Your body generates small amounts from this blueprint, and your immune system recognises it as foreign and learn to defeat it. It's very simple technology ultimately, but it needed a few breakthroughs. They hope the same technology can be used to train your body to recognise cancers in the future.
    Stark wrote: »
    mRNA (messenger RNA) is a sequence of genes with instructions for ribosomes in your cells to make a certain protein. In the case of the vaccine, the "spike protein" that the virus uses to enter cells. This triggers the immune system to create antibodies against the spike protein.




    Understanding how it works is key for me ....being my paranoid self when I see things like RNA - I automatically wonder is this similar to genetic engineering and I guess having to trust the companies that it's not going to alter my cells in a negative way, so while they can generate the antibodies it doesn't stop them from performing all there other functions or possibly make the body even more suseptible to the next virus that comes out.


    So for me to get the reassurance I need to try an understand a more about the technology I guess and how it works.



    They way you describe it there is sounds like a great technology to be utilised as long as it's not abused.


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    #8144
    ShineOn7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭ShineOn7


    Micky 32 wrote: »
    I see that president elect Joe Biden and Obama, Bush and Clinton are going to get inoculated on camera to help ease peoples fears of the vaccine safety.


    I see they left out himself


    I think it'd be good to get him on board though as his supporters will definitely be mostly ant-vaxxers. They just seem to have that kind of intelligence


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    #8145
    Irish Stones
    Registered Users Posts: 2,307 ✭✭✭Irish Stones


    Pasteur. wrote: »
    It was a bad idea to come out with that after UK approval


    Fauci or me?
    Genuine question.


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    #8146
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,032 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    ShineOn7 wrote: »
    I see they left out himself


    I think it'd be good to get him on board though as his supporters will definitely be mostly ant-vaxxers. They just seem to have that kind of intelligence

    Are they going to vaccinate people who have already had it?


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    #8147
    Irish Stones
    Registered Users Posts: 2,307 ✭✭✭Irish Stones


    Micky 32 wrote: »
    I see that president elect Joe Biden and Obama, Bush and Clinton are going to get inoculated on camera to help ease peoples fears of the vaccine safety.


    How do we know that it isn't just a saline solution? :D


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    #8148
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,134 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    This article gives a great understanding of the history of the discovery of mRNA tech:
    https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/10/the-story-of-mrna-how-a-once-dismissed-idea-became-a-leading-technology-in-the-covid-vaccine-race/


    Katalan Kariko is a great bet for a Nobel Prize for Chemistry, if any bookie would give you odds.


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    #8149
    Irish Stones
    Registered Users Posts: 2,307 ✭✭✭Irish Stones


    Loafing Oaf wrote: »
    Are they going to vaccinate people who have already had it?

    Do you mean "people who have already had the covid"?

    From an Italian newspaper, which most of users of Boards do not trust much
    https://www.lastampa.it/cronaca/2020/12/03/news/ippolito-chi-ha-avuto-il-covid-non-deve-vaccinarsi-1.39614023


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    #8150
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Irish Stones wrote: »
    Do you mean "people who have already had the covid"?

    From an Italian newspaper, which most of users of Boards do not trust much
    https://www.lastampa.it/cronaca/2020/12/03/news/ippolito-chi-ha-avuto-il-covid-non-deve-vaccinarsi-1.39614023
    Using Google Translate the gist seems to be that they will not be considered initially and that they will need to look at the level of antibodies first. Nothing startling there.


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    #8151
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Africa finally doing widescale trial of common drugs for COVID but they are starting with hydroxychloroquine.
    Now, researchers on the continent are mounting a large effort to try to answer a crucial question that has gotten relatively little attention: Could cheap, widely available drugs prevent patients with mild illness from becoming severely sick?

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/12/first-its-kind-african-trial-tests-common-drugs-prevent-severe-covid-19


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    #8152
    VillageIdiot71
    Registered Users Posts: 578 ✭✭✭VillageIdiot71


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    Interesting that Fauci in America said Britain rushed the vaccine approval and he then says the FDA is the best in the world.

    Americans worse than the Brits for hyping their own country.
    Even more interesting that he's now backtracking.

    BBC are now report that he says the UK will do "really well" with the vaccine.

    A certain Trumpian ring to that "really well".

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55177948


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    #8153
    Pasteur.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 256 ✭✭Pasteur.


    VillageIdiot71 wrote: »
    Even more interesting that he's now backtracking.

    BBC are now report that he says the UK will do "really well" with the vaccine.

    A certain Trumpian ring to that "really well".

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55177948

    Realizes the error


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    #8154
    jackboy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,462 ✭✭✭jackboy


    VillageIdiot71 wrote: »
    Even more interesting that he's now backtracking.

    BBC are now report that he says the UK will do "really well" with the vaccine.

    A certain Trumpian ring to that "really well".

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55177948

    The UK approving first makes him look bad. Second in the US is seen as no better than last. He is concerned about his own image not about the ‘rushed’ approval.


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    #8155
    Stark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,896 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    NaFirinne wrote: »
    Understanding how it works is key for me ....being my paranoid self when I see things like RNA - I automatically wonder is this similar to genetic engineering and I guess having to trust the companies that it's not going to alter my cells in a negative way, so while they can generate the antibodies it doesn't stop them from performing all there other functions or possibly make the body even more suseptible to the next virus that comes out.


    So for me to get the reassurance I need to try an understand a more about the technology I guess and how it works.



    They way you describe it there is sounds like a great technology to be utilised as long as it's not abused.

    Why would it be abused? That sounds like extremely paranoid thinking tbh. Easier ways for someone to poison you if that's their goal.


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    #8156
    timsey tiger
    Registered Users Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭timsey tiger


    Pasteur. wrote: »
    Realizes the error

    faux pas, not an error in fact.


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    #8157
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Irish Stones wrote: »
    How do we know that it isn't just a saline solution? :D
    We can scan for the micro-chip afterwards.


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    #8158
    ACitizenErased
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭ACitizenErased


    Aaaand we have movement:
    https://twitter.com/paulreiddublin/status/1334819782726742016?s=20


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    #8159
    MerlinSouthDub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭MerlinSouthDub


    ACitizenErased wrote: »
    Aaaand we have movement:
    https://twitter.com/paulreiddublin/status/1334819782726742016?s=20

    Those freezers don't look very big. I wonder how many vials they can hold? Anyway, great to see movement. Hopefully, we'll have authorisation from EMA sooner than planned, and we can start roll-out before Christmas!


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    #8160
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    MerlinSouthDub wrote: »
    Those freezers don't look very big. I wonder how many vials they can hold? Anyway, great to see movement. Hopefully, we'll have authorisation from EMA sooner than planned, and we can start roll-out before Christmas!

    Can hold 200,000 doses, so for our population and with regular supply should be fine. We should be aiming for 20,000 - 30,000 vaccines a day.


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    #8161
    Hmmzis
    Registered Users Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭Hmmzis


    MerlinSouthDub wrote: »
    Those freezers don't look very big. I wonder how many vials they can hold? Anyway, great to see movement. Hopefully, we'll have authorisation from EMA sooner than planned, and we can start roll-out before Christmas!

    They're only needed for the Pfizer/BNT vaccine. We're getting up to 3 million doses of it, the freezers can hold nearly more than half of that. I sincerely doubt there will be a need for all of them at any given point in time.


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