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Warner bros releasing it's entire 2021 schedule on HBO MAX

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭secondrowgal


    Wowser. I presume it’s a separate streaming service, in other words separate payment? Or can you get HBO max as part of something else?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,563 ✭✭✭✭peteeeed


    Wowser. I presume it’s a separate streaming service, in other words separate payment? Or can you get HBO max as part of something else?

    https://www.hbomax.com/
    Not available here


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,047 ✭✭✭Unearthly


    peteeeed wrote: »
    https://www.hbomax.com/
    Not available here

    Yes instead we get Sky, a completely watered down version at multiple times the price


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,877 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,724 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    peteeeed wrote: »
    Dune, The Matrix 4, Mortal Kombat Coming to HBO Max Along with Entire WB 2021 Slate
    Its an unprecedented move for a hybrid theatrical and streaming model.


    https://www.ign.com/articles/dune-the-matrix-4-mortal-kombat-coming-to-hbo-max-along-with-entire-wb-2021-slate

    The matrix 4?!
    Hadn’t heard of this.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,233 ✭✭✭✭MisterAnarchy


    It seems a high risk move , those high profile films will be pirated and available on the web the same day as released in the cinema.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,283 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    Wowser. I presume it’s a separate streaming service, in other words separate payment? Or can you get HBO max as part of something else?

    HBO Max is the steaming service. And unlike the Disney move, HBO won't be charging extra.

    It is a risky move because, as said, they'll be pirated right away. But I guess with some of those films at least, they would be better experienced on the big screen


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,877 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    CastorTroy wrote: »
    HBO Max is the steaming service. And unlike the Disney move, HBO won't be charging extra.

    It is a risky move because, as said, they'll be pirated right away. But I guess with some of those films at least, they would be better experienced on the big screen

    HBO is more than twice the price of Disney and most other streaming services so you could say they are already changing extra.

    HBO Max $15

    Disney $6.99

    Netflix $8.99


  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭bigar


    I wonder what they will do outside the US. Once they are shown on HBO Max they will quickly appear on the "alternative channels" so likely taking a big bite out cinema ticket income worldwide.

    Could this be the beginning of the end of cinemas as we know them?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,680 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    HBO are presumedly paying Warners so much money that they don't mind too much if everyone pirates the films 5 minutes after they are released.

    Unless the pendulum swings back hard, this bodes very bad for the future of film theatres outside big urban areas.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,877 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    HBO are presumedly paying Warners so much money that they don't mind too much if everyone pirates the films 5 minutes after they are released.

    Unless the pendulum swings back hard, this bodes very bad for the future of film theatres outside big urban areas.

    They are both owned by AT&T so a bit of in house accountancy probably going on.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Give the value of foreign markets these days, you'd wonder if the inevitable piracy was part of the equation, hoping that some international box office being better than none. Cos these are all highly anticipated films - they're going to be pirated up the wazoo.

    Then again, maybe this might save the cinema in the long run. That they'll swing back to being more niche venues, than basically the theme park rides they are via blockbuster dominance.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭ShineOn7


    • Wonder Woman 1984 (December 25, 2020)
    • The Little Things (January 29, 2021)
    • Tom & Jerry (March 5, 2021)
    • The Many Saints of Newark (March 12, 2021)
    • Reminiscence (April 16, 2021)
    • Godzilla vs. Kong (May 21, 2021)
    • The Conjuring: The Devil Made Me Do It (June 4, 2021)
    • In the Heights (June 18, 2021)
    • Space Jam: A New Legacy (July 16, 2021)
    • The Suicide Squad (August 6, 2021)
    • Dune (October 1, 2021)
    • Elvis (November 5, 2021)
    • King Richard (November 19, 2021)
    • The Matrix 4 (December 22, 2021)
    • Sherlock Holmes 3 (December 22, 2021)
    • Judas and the Black Messiah (TBA 2021)
    • MACRO (TBA 2021)
    • Malignant (TBA 2021)
    • Mortal Kombat (TBA 2021)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭SimonTemplar


    If they want to mitigate the loss of revenue by piracy, they'll need to roll out HBO Max outside of the US.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭speedboatchase


    Aaaaaand cinemas are done.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭ShineOn7


    Aaaaaand cinemas are done.


    Yes agreed

    Not immediately, but I don't think they'll be here in large numbers in 10 years

    This is the start


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,563 ✭✭✭✭peteeeed


    universal signed a deal early on in the year to reduce the gap to 17 days for their movies to appear on itunes etc after cinema releases


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,026 ✭✭✭homerun_homer


    I think these kinds of deals will mean that cinemas that are lazy with their standards, be it cleanliness, audio/visual issues in screens, and such (I'm looking at you Cineworld) will have to up their game if cinema is now to be a luxury compared to watching at home with all the distractions that are there. Cinemas like Lighthouse and IFI will survive because there is that core audience, and they will only gain customers if any other cinemas around close post-pandemic.

    Multiplexes may need to downsize if there is not enough original content exclusive to cinemas for a good length of time before they are available to watch at home.


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fysh


    From a different perspective: AT&T own HBO and Time-Warner, and have form for bastardry of various types. HBO is looking to launch its premium streaming platform fairly late in the day compared to its rivals, so this is a way of both addressing the accumulated backlog of films and getting eyeballs to at least take a chance on it.

    Also worth noting that the films will only be on HBO Max for the first 31 days of release, so there won't be any "sub for a month and watch the last six months of tentpole Warner films" thing going on.

    There's very little information about the financials of streaming, so it's impossible to comment on how much better or worse this is for studios and production companies.

    I don't think cinemas are done, but I do think that multiplexes are going to struggle unless we see a return to the studio-ownership model e.g. Disney-AMC cinemas as the only venue showing Disney & Pixar films. The bigger threat to repertory cinemas is the ongoing bastardry of the Disney vault, and the risk of more holding companies taking a similar vault approach in order to try and force viewers onto their streaming platforms...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,563 ✭✭✭✭peteeeed


    i think this will be an experiment , make sure release schedules are kept for 2021 and they will checked the balance sheet at the end of 2021


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭Decuc500


    I can't see my cinema going habits changing too much with this news.

    I will go to the cinema to see a few of those movies on the list that really should be seen on the big screen and keep going to the Lighthouse and IFI to see their always excellent programme of films.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,026 ✭✭✭homerun_homer


    peteeeed wrote: »
    i think this will be an experiment , make sure release schedules are kept for 2021 and they will checked the balance sheet at the end of 2021

    Also HBO Max only has 8 million subscribers, so this is a shot in the arm to try and speed up getting on par with other streaming platforms. This will do them well in increasing numbers.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,009 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    Aaaaaand cinemas are done.

    Nah, if Disney follow suit with a similar move though, it'd probably be it though


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,076 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fysh


    titan18 wrote: »
    Nah, if Disney follow suit with a similar move though, it'd probably be it though

    Knowing Disney, they'd be more likely to buy up a chain of cinemas (possibly one that has been pushed onto the ropes by COVID challenges and whose sales price is therefore reduced). Because that way they can sell you cinema tickets and a sub to Disney+.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,948 ✭✭✭Banjaxed82


    ShineOn7 wrote: »
    • Wonder Woman 1984 (December 25, 2020)
    • The Little Things (January 29, 2021)
    • Tom & Jerry (March 5, 2021)
    • The Many Saints of Newark (March 12, 2021)
    • Reminiscence (April 16, 2021)
    • Godzilla vs. Kong (May 21, 2021)
    • The Conjuring: The Devil Made Me Do It (June 4, 2021)
    • In the Heights (June 18, 2021)
    • Space Jam: A New Legacy (July 16, 2021)
    • The Suicide Squad (August 6, 2021)
    • Dune (October 1, 2021)
    • Elvis (November 5, 2021)
    • King Richard (November 19, 2021)
    • The Matrix 4 (December 22, 2021)
    • Sherlock Holmes 3 (December 22, 2021)
    • Judas and the Black Messiah (TBA 2021)
    • MACRO (TBA 2021)
    • Malignant (TBA 2021)
    • Mortal Kombat (TBA 2021)

    Not many films here I'd pay to watch outside of a cinema.

    Find it hard to believe something like Mortal Kombat could even come close to making the money it would in the cinema.

    Any figures on Disney's Mulan?

    How do studios not lose their bollocks with no cinemas? Especially with blockbusters..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,283 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    If Godzilla vs Kong is more like the last Kong and not the Godzilla films then it could be better enjoyed the the cinema. If it's like the Godzilla films then we would be looking at people and clouds on the big screen with the occasional glimpse of the monsters


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,302 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Banjaxed82 wrote: »
    Not many films here I'd pay to watch outside of a cinema.

    Find it hard to believe something like Mortal Kombat could even come close to making the money it would in the cinema.

    Any figures on Disney's Mulan?

    How do studios not lose their bollocks with no cinemas? Especially with blockbusters..
    I think Mulan did pretty well.
    Plus no sharing in profits with cinemas etc
    Detailed article below
    https://screenrant.com/mulan-2020-movie-disney-plus-office-success-failure/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,877 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    It's being reported today that Legendary Pictures which made Dune & Godzilla vs. Kong will challenge the decision by Warner's to release the films on HBO Max in the courts.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,563 ✭✭✭✭peteeeed


    that is fighting talk from their poster boy .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,009 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    Nolan is anti anything that isn't the film being released in the cinema, even when it's not safe to do (look at his insistence on Tenet despite everyone saying it was stupid)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,877 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    Just reading that At&T's total debt is $190B so I can't see them bailing out the financial lose of these films missing the Box Office takings to air on HBO Max.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,297 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    If they want to mitigate the loss of revenue by piracy, they'll need to roll out HBO Max outside of the US.

    I doubt it. They will just sell them to Sky instead. At least I hope that is what they will do as that suits me.
    Sky already show some HBO Series and Films so it makes sense.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,233 ✭✭✭✭MisterAnarchy


    It's being reported today that Legendary Pictures which made Dune & Godzilla vs. Kong will challenge the decision by Warner's to release the films on HBO Max in the courts.

    And rightly so .

    What the hell do Warner Bros think they are up to releasing the film on HBO the same day as its released in the cinema.
    Legendary had no advance notice of the announcement and they put up 75% of the budget for Dune and Godzilla vs Kong.
    Its utter madness.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    Just reading that At&T's total debt is $190B so I can't see them bailing out the financial lose of these films missing the Box Office takings to air on HBO Max.

    Was listening to a podcast about this, the losses WB face are nothing compared to AT&T's debt, they're trying to push people towards their phone products where they can have exclusive deals with HBO Max.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,877 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    I would say a lot of directors won't want to work with WB after this.

    ‘Dune’ Director Denis Villeneuve Blasts HBO Max Deal
    I learned in the news that Warner Bros. has decided to release “Dune” on HBO Max at the same time as our theatrical release, using prominent images from our movie to promote their streaming service. With this decision AT&T has hijacked one of the most respectable and important studios in film history. There is absolutely no love for cinema, nor for the audience here. It is all about the survival of a telecom mammoth, one that is currently bearing an astronomical debt of more than $150 billion. Therefore, even though “Dune” is about cinema and audiences, AT&T is about its own survival on Wall Street. With HBO Max’s launch a failure thus far, AT&T decided to sacrifice Warner Bros.’ entire 2021 slate in a desperate attempt to grab the audience’s attention.......

    https://variety.com/2020/film/news/dune-denis-villeneuve-blasts-warner-bros-1234851270/


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,253 ✭✭✭The White Wolf


    Just reading that At&T's total debt is $190B so I can't see them bailing out the financial lose of these films missing the Box Office takings to air on HBO Max.

    In what kind of world is that kind of debt ****ing acceptable? I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell me that's how big business works but **** me that is sickening.

    Nolan calling HBO MAX the worst streaming service is hyperbole, but it has been undoubtedly tainted now by the actions of AT&T.

    All this being said, I do have to laugh at the idea of Warner Bros being innocent bystanders being bullied by their parent. They have had more than a hand in the **** show developing here.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    In what kind of world is that kind of debt ****ing acceptable? I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell me that's how big business works but **** me that is sickening.

    Nolan calling HBO MAX the worst streaming service is hyperbole, but it has been undoubtedly tainted now by the actions of AT&T.

    All this being said, I do have to laugh at the idea of Warner Bros being innocent bystanders being bullied by their parent. They have had more than a hand in the **** show developing here.

    I honestly thought I'd become more right-wing as I aged; but having hit 40 this year, and looking at the (especially American) capitalist system become more and more unfettered - even after the 2008 crash - I've only become increasingly left-wing instead. Eat the rich, basically :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Just reading that At&T's total debt is $190B so I can't see them bailing out the financial lose of these films missing the Box Office takings to air on HBO Max.

    But you see the debts are exactly why they are likely happy with this decision.

    This is somewhat simplified but when you operate your corporation on debt (as most corporations, especially American ones, do), the mad thing is that future profit potential doesn't really matter. What matters is cash flow.

    These companies need cash flow to pay off older debts, which will allow them to accrue newer debt! It's insane, but it's how they all operate (until they suddenly don't, of course).

    Interest and debt repayments kind of invert the moral of the Marshmallow test — it's usually better to have less money on a guaranteed schedule than it is to have potentially more money at some unknown future date.

    Now, in normal times, there would be a steady, calculated stream of movie theatre releases that would generate its own cash flow (if somewhat less predictably than millions of streaming subscriptions). But this year has disrupted that entirely. With the amount of debt AT&T have, they simply cannot afford to wait out the pandemic. Juicing HBO Max subscriber numbers is what will get them cash flow now.

    All this makes it utterly staggering to me that they still haven't announced an international HBO Max strategy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,877 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    Save to say WB have not made friends doing this.
    From: Patrick Whitesell
    Date: Friday, December 11, 2020 at 12:56 PM
    To: WME Agents
    Subject: Important Update Regarding Warner Bros./HBO Max Negotiations

    I’m writing to everyone today to provide an update on where we are with our negotiations with Warner Bros. As I made clear to the Motion Picture group last week and will reiterate now: WME rejects their unilateral decision out of hand.

    When Warner Bros. called us to inform us that they were going to announce their decision to simultaneously release movies in theaters and on HBO Max last Thursday, we immediately told them that we are disappointed with this decision, and quickly gathered the Motion Picture group for a call. Since then, we have engaged in follow up discussions with the highest levels at Warner Bros. and we are setting up a meeting today to work toward reaching a solution that protects the creative and economic interests of our clients.

    We have already been at work on the movie “The Little Things” – the first film on Warner Bros. release schedule and one that includes multiple WME clients. We have the most business with Warner Bros. out of any of the agencies and we are aggressively working to ensure that our clients are protected.

    As I stated last week and will reiterate here:

    Warner Bros. announced a strategy across an entire slate of 2021 movies without consulting with their partners (our clients), not only disregarding our clients’ feelings about the strategy but in many cases constituting a contractual violation.
    This is a blatant attempt to self-deal and use our clients work to build their HBO Max streaming service, which our clients have no financial interest in.
    The simultaneous release on HBO Max will cannibalize the domestic box office and torpedo the traditional waterfall of economics that make movies profitable in the near and long-term for the studio and for our clients (a point our client Chris Nolan very articulately made this week: “Long-term, I think all of the studios know that the movie theater experience will bounce back and be a very important part of the ecosystem long-term. What you have right now in our business is a lot of the use of the pandemic as an excuse for sort of grappling for short-term advantage. And it’s really unfortunate. It’s not the way to do business and it’s not the best thing for the health of our industry”).
    In the current environment with COVID, studios by and large have been delaying releases, or with clients’ consent and inclusion in the process, selling the movies to streaming platforms. But what Warner Bros. has decided to do is push forward with a theatrical release in the darkest days of COVID. At a time where our own government leaders are telling us to stay home and away from loved ones, Warner Bros. is doubling down on ensuring box office failure and even worse, putting movie-goers who want to see a movie in a theater at risk.
    This decision is even more baffling and egregious knowing that a vaccine is here, eventually putting an end to the incredibly challenging storm we have all been living through the past nine months.
    Moreover, we don’t see this decision as a lifeline to the exhibitors or a way of supporting the existing business. Rather, we see this as a purely opportunistic attempt to re-write the rules of windowing to WarnerMedia’s favor, while the theater owners themselves have been brought to their knees due to COVID.
    Given that every movie is unique in how it is financially put together for our artists, and given that inside each movie there are unique characteristics from artist to artist, we will not accept a ‘one size fits all’ approach.
    Lastly, we take seriously the notion that moving our clients’ work to the HBO Max platform is effectively a free advertisement for HBO Max and we expect and will negotiate that consideration for our clients.
    Again, these are all the points that we made last week and have been reinforcing since then. Going forward, we will engage with Warner Bros. on a movie by movie basis, and we will not stop until our clients’ creative and financial needs are satisfied.

    Obviously, there is a lot of press attention around this—especially with public statements from other agencies and prominent artists—but we have a fiduciary responsibility to our clients to do our negotiating work in the confidential manner we always do to protect our clients’ privacy and interests.

    We will continue to keep you informed as our negotiations progress. Please feel free to share this letter or use the content as talking points with your clients.

    Thanks,

    Patrick

    https://deadline.com/2020/12/wme-patrick-whitesell-warnermedia-hbo-max-move-blatant-attempt-to-self-deal-use-our-clients-work-to-build-their-hbo-max-streaming-service-1234655268/


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,283 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    https://variety.com/2021/film/news/godzilla-vs-kong-release-date-warner-bros-hbo-max-1234886806/

    Godzilla vs. Kong now releasing March 26th instead of May 21st


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,253 ✭✭✭The White Wolf


    CastorTroy wrote: »
    And not even a facking teaser yet.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,233 ✭✭✭✭MisterAnarchy


    According to the Wall Street Journal, Christopher Nolan and Warner Bros. won't be working on any further projects down the road.
    After spending 20 years as a top Warner Bros. director, Christopher Nolan is unlikely to return to the studio with his next project, in part because he was disappointed with the studio's hybrid distribution strategy for 2021.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,253 ✭✭✭The White Wolf


    Would Nolan make another kind of commitment to a studio like he had with WB or will he freelance so to speak.

    I think he will operate based on the studio that serves his means best film to film.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    My initial reaction would be the presumption Netflix and co. might come calling, though given Nolan's seeming antipathy towards non cinematic releases perhaps he's not disposed towards that direction. A blank cheque might change his view mind you


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,877 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    If he looks at the freedom & budgets Fincher & Scorsese for were given by Netflix to make their pet projects he might just decide to try for a couple of movie deal.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,680 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    Nolan will have complete freedom to make whatever he wants no matter what studio he lands at and he'll want to be at a studio that he believes is committed to giving films a proper theatrical release. That ain't Netflix, which he has been very critical of in the past.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,233 ✭✭✭✭MisterAnarchy


    This decision by Warner Bros to release all its schedule simultaneously on HBO seems like utter insanity.
    They are literally writing off billions and billions of dollars.
    The gross for WW 1984 is currently $143m ($36m in the US) , compared to $822m ($412m in the US) for the first film.

    From October 22 (8.6 million) to December 8 (12.6 million), HBO Max gained 4 million new active subs (+46.5%).An estimated 554,000 signed up for the HBO Max app from December 25 (Friday) to December 27 (Sunday)
    Fast and loose ballpark math here, but if Max increases by the same number or percentage over the same seven-week period, it’s looking at between 16.5 million-18.5 million activations by February.
    It seems like small fry compared to the income to be made by postponing the films to later in the year and giving them an exclusive cinema release.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    I can't see Nolan signing up to a streaming company after falling put with WB over their decision to release everything on streaming service. He values the cinema too much and a streaming platform is no place for IMAX.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    I’ve said this before but to understand these choices you have to realise that movie studios have massive amounts of debt. What is important to them isn’t really a specific movies profitability, but cash flow. And the pandemic has completely stopped box office cash flow for every studio.

    Disney are able to survive because they have a lot of residual cash from their massive 2019, and Disney Plus is doing well. Most of the other studios have large TV networks to prop them up.

    WB doesn’t have any of that, so they need to release things and get *some* money flowing, while they also try to juice HBO Max numbers.

    I have no idea why they seem to have no HBO Max international strategy right now, because they’d have a lot of growth there if they did.


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