Warner bros releasing it's entire 2021 schedule on HBO MAX

titan18

Nolan is anti anything that isn't the film being released in the cinema, even when it's not safe to do (look at his insistence on Tenet despite everyone saying it was stupid)

Agent Coulson

Just reading that At&T's total debt is $190B so I can't see them bailing out the financial lose of these films missing the Box Office takings to air on HBO Max.

AMKC

SimonTemplar wrote: »

If they want to mitigate the loss of revenue by piracy, they'll need to roll out HBO Max outside of the US.

I doubt it. They will just sell them to Sky instead. At least I hope that is what they will do as that suits me.
Sky already show some HBO Series and Films so it makes sense.

MisterAnarchy

Agent Coulson wrote: »

It's being reported today that Legendary Pictures which made Dune & Godzilla vs. Kong will challenge the decision by Warner's to release the films on HBO Max in the courts.

And rightly so .

What the hell do Warner Bros think they are up to releasing the film on HBO the same day as its released in the cinema.
Legendary had no advance notice of the announcement and they put up 75% of the budget for Dune and Godzilla vs Kong.
Its utter madness.

FunLover18

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Just reading that At&T's total debt is $190B so I can't see them bailing out the financial lose of these films missing the Box Office takings to air on HBO Max.

Was listening to a podcast about this, the losses WB face are nothing compared to AT&T's debt, they're trying to push people towards their phone products where they can have exclusive deals with HBO Max.

Agent Coulson

I would say a lot of directors won't want to work with WB after this.

‘Dune’ Director Denis Villeneuve Blasts HBO Max Deal

I learned in the news that Warner Bros. has decided to release “Dune” on HBO Max at the same time as our theatrical release, using prominent images from our movie to promote their streaming service. With this decision AT&T has hijacked one of the most respectable and important studios in film history. There is absolutely no love for cinema, nor for the audience here. It is all about the survival of a telecom mammoth, one that is currently bearing an astronomical debt of more than $150 billion. Therefore, even though “Dune” is about cinema and audiences, AT&T is about its own survival on Wall Street. With HBO Max’s launch a failure thus far, AT&T decided to sacrifice Warner Bros.’ entire 2021 slate in a desperate attempt to grab the audience’s attention.......

https://variety.com/2020/film/news/dune-denis-villeneuve-blasts-warner-bros-1234851270/

The White Wolf

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Just reading that At&T's total debt is $190B so I can't see them bailing out the financial lose of these films missing the Box Office takings to air on HBO Max.

In what kind of world is that kind of debt ****ing acceptable? I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell me that's how big business works but **** me that is sickening.

Nolan calling HBO MAX the worst streaming service is hyperbole, but it has been undoubtedly tainted now by the actions of AT&T.

All this being said, I do have to laugh at the idea of Warner Bros being innocent bystanders being bullied by their parent. They have had more than a hand in the **** show developing here.

pixelburp

The White Wolf wrote: »

In what kind of world is that kind of debt ****ing acceptable? I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell me that's how big business works but **** me that is sickening.

Nolan calling HBO MAX the worst streaming service is hyperbole, but it has been undoubtedly tainted now by the actions of AT&T.

All this being said, I do have to laugh at the idea of Warner Bros being innocent bystanders being bullied by their parent. They have had more than a hand in the **** show developing here.

I honestly thought I'd become more right-wing as I aged; but having hit 40 this year, and looking at the (especially American) capitalist system become more and more unfettered - even after the 2008 crash - I've only become increasingly left-wing instead. Eat the rich, basically

MJohnston

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Just reading that At&T's total debt is $190B so I can't see them bailing out the financial lose of these films missing the Box Office takings to air on HBO Max.

But you see the debts are exactly why they are likely happy with this decision.

This is somewhat simplified but when you operate your corporation on debt (as most corporations, especially American ones, do), the mad thing is that future profit potential doesn't really matter. What matters is cash flow.

These companies need cash flow to pay off older debts, which will allow them to accrue newer debt! It's insane, but it's how they all operate (until they suddenly don't, of course).

Interest and debt repayments kind of invert the moral of the Marshmallow test — it's usually better to have less money on a guaranteed schedule than it is to have potentially more money at some unknown future date.

Now, in normal times, there would be a steady, calculated stream of movie theatre releases that would generate its own cash flow (if somewhat less predictably than millions of streaming subscriptions). But this year has disrupted that entirely. With the amount of debt AT&T have, they simply cannot afford to wait out the pandemic. Juicing HBO Max subscriber numbers is what will get them cash flow now.

All this makes it utterly staggering to me that they still haven't announced an international HBO Max strategy.

Agent Coulson

Save to say WB have not made friends doing this.

From: Patrick Whitesell
Date: Friday, December 11, 2020 at 12:56 PM
To: WME Agents
Subject: Important Update Regarding Warner Bros./HBO Max Negotiations

I’m writing to everyone today to provide an update on where we are with our negotiations with Warner Bros. As I made clear to the Motion Picture group last week and will reiterate now: WME rejects their unilateral decision out of hand.

When Warner Bros. called us to inform us that they were going to announce their decision to simultaneously release movies in theaters and on HBO Max last Thursday, we immediately told them that we are disappointed with this decision, and quickly gathered the Motion Picture group for a call. Since then, we have engaged in follow up discussions with the highest levels at Warner Bros. and we are setting up a meeting today to work toward reaching a solution that protects the creative and economic interests of our clients.

We have already been at work on the movie “The Little Things” – the first film on Warner Bros. release schedule and one that includes multiple WME clients. We have the most business with Warner Bros. out of any of the agencies and we are aggressively working to ensure that our clients are protected.

As I stated last week and will reiterate here:

Warner Bros. announced a strategy across an entire slate of 2021 movies without consulting with their partners (our clients), not only disregarding our clients’ feelings about the strategy but in many cases constituting a contractual violation.
This is a blatant attempt to self-deal and use our clients work to build their HBO Max streaming service, which our clients have no financial interest in.
The simultaneous release on HBO Max will cannibalize the domestic box office and torpedo the traditional waterfall of economics that make movies profitable in the near and long-term for the studio and for our clients (a point our client Chris Nolan very articulately made this week: “Long-term, I think all of the studios know that the movie theater experience will bounce back and be a very important part of the ecosystem long-term. What you have right now in our business is a lot of the use of the pandemic as an excuse for sort of grappling for short-term advantage. And it’s really unfortunate. It’s not the way to do business and it’s not the best thing for the health of our industry”).
In the current environment with COVID, studios by and large have been delaying releases, or with clients’ consent and inclusion in the process, selling the movies to streaming platforms. But what Warner Bros. has decided to do is push forward with a theatrical release in the darkest days of COVID. At a time where our own government leaders are telling us to stay home and away from loved ones, Warner Bros. is doubling down on ensuring box office failure and even worse, putting movie-goers who want to see a movie in a theater at risk.
This decision is even more baffling and egregious knowing that a vaccine is here, eventually putting an end to the incredibly challenging storm we have all been living through the past nine months.
Moreover, we don’t see this decision as a lifeline to the exhibitors or a way of supporting the existing business. Rather, we see this as a purely opportunistic attempt to re-write the rules of windowing to WarnerMedia’s favor, while the theater owners themselves have been brought to their knees due to COVID.
Given that every movie is unique in how it is financially put together for our artists, and given that inside each movie there are unique characteristics from artist to artist, we will not accept a ‘one size fits all’ approach.
Lastly, we take seriously the notion that moving our clients’ work to the HBO Max platform is effectively a free advertisement for HBO Max and we expect and will negotiate that consideration for our clients.
Again, these are all the points that we made last week and have been reinforcing since then. Going forward, we will engage with Warner Bros. on a movie by movie basis, and we will not stop until our clients’ creative and financial needs are satisfied.

Obviously, there is a lot of press attention around this—especially with public statements from other agencies and prominent artists—but we have a fiduciary responsibility to our clients to do our negotiating work in the confidential manner we always do to protect our clients’ privacy and interests.

We will continue to keep you informed as our negotiations progress. Please feel free to share this letter or use the content as talking points with your clients.

Thanks,

Patrick

https://deadline.com/2020/12/wme-patrick-whitesell-warnermedia-hbo-max-move-blatant-attempt-to-self-deal-use-our-clients-work-to-build-their-hbo-max-streaming-service-1234655268/

CastorTroy

https://variety.com/2021/film/news/godzilla-vs-kong-release-date-warner-bros-hbo-max-1234886806/

Godzilla vs. Kong now releasing March 26th instead of May 21st

The White Wolf

CastorTroy wrote: »

https://variety.com/2021/film/news/godzilla-vs-kong-release-date-warner-bros-hbo-max-1234886806/

Godzilla vs. Kong now releasing March 26th instead of May 21st

And not even a facking teaser yet.

MisterAnarchy

According to the Wall Street Journal, Christopher Nolan and Warner Bros. won't be working on any further projects down the road.
After spending 20 years as a top Warner Bros. director, Christopher Nolan is unlikely to return to the studio with his next project, in part because he was disappointed with the studio's hybrid distribution strategy for 2021.

The White Wolf

Would Nolan make another kind of commitment to a studio like he had with WB or will he freelance so to speak.

I think he will operate based on the studio that serves his means best film to film.

pixelburp

My initial reaction would be the presumption Netflix and co. might come calling, though given Nolan's seeming antipathy towards non cinematic releases perhaps he's not disposed towards that direction. A blank cheque might change his view mind you

Agent Coulson

If he looks at the freedom & budgets Fincher & Scorsese for were given by Netflix to make their pet projects he might just decide to try for a couple of movie deal.

Sad Professor

Nolan will have complete freedom to make whatever he wants no matter what studio he lands at and he'll want to be at a studio that he believes is committed to giving films a proper theatrical release. That ain't Netflix, which he has been very critical of in the past.

MisterAnarchy

This decision by Warner Bros to release all its schedule simultaneously on HBO seems like utter insanity.
They are literally writing off billions and billions of dollars.
The gross for WW 1984 is currently $143m ($36m in the US) , compared to $822m ($412m in the US) for the first film.

From October 22 (8.6 million) to December 8 (12.6 million), HBO Max gained 4 million new active subs (+46.5%).An estimated 554,000 signed up for the HBO Max app from December 25 (Friday) to December 27 (Sunday)
Fast and loose ballpark math here, but if Max increases by the same number or percentage over the same seven-week period, it’s looking at between 16.5 million-18.5 million activations by February.
It seems like small fry compared to the income to be made by postponing the films to later in the year and giving them an exclusive cinema release.

FunLover18

I can't see Nolan signing up to a streaming company after falling put with WB over their decision to release everything on streaming service. He values the cinema too much and a streaming platform is no place for IMAX.

MJohnston

I’ve said this before but to understand these choices you have to realise that movie studios have massive amounts of debt. What is important to them isn’t really a specific movies profitability, but cash flow. And the pandemic has completely stopped box office cash flow for every studio.

Disney are able to survive because they have a lot of residual cash from their massive 2019, and Disney Plus is doing well. Most of the other studios have large TV networks to prop them up.

WB doesn’t have any of that, so they need to release things and get *some* money flowing, while they also try to juice HBO Max numbers.

I have no idea why they seem to have no HBO Max international strategy right now, because they’d have a lot of growth there if they did.

Agent Coulson

MJohnston wrote: »

I’ve said this before but to understand these choices you have to realise that movie studios have massive amounts of debt. What is important to them isn’t really a specific movies profitability, but cash flow. And the pandemic has completely stopped box office cash flow for every studio.

Disney are able to survive because they have a lot of residual cash from their massive 2019, and Disney Plus is doing well. Most of the other studios have large TV networks to prop them up.

WB doesn’t have any of that, so they need to release things and get *some* money flowing, while they also try to juice HBO Max numbers.

I have no idea why they seem to have no HBO Max international strategy right now, because they’d have a lot of growth there if they did.

They have exclusive deals like they do with Sky here in other parts of the world that they are tied into for years to come. HBO Max International is due to launch this year in regions where they don't have those deals in place.

MJohnston

I mean I don’t mind as I was able to sign up for USA HBO Max anyway, and the catalogue is pretty excellent (although the app is very hard to browse)

Looking forward to a year of home premieres

The White Wolf

MJohnston wrote: »

I mean I don’t mind as I was able to sign up for USA HBO Max anyway, and the catalogue is pretty excellent (although the app is very hard to browse)

Looking forward to a year of home premieres

I won't ask how you managed that. :pac: But yeah would love to have Max right now given what 2021 is delivering.

pixelburp

Sad Professor wrote: »

Nolan will have complete freedom to make whatever he wants no matter what studio he lands at and he'll want to be at a studio that he believes is committed to giving films a proper theatrical release. That ain't Netflix, which he has been very critical of in the past.

Already banged the drum on the main Tenet thread but part me thinks Nolan could do with less freedom, not more, at this point. More specifically , the return of his brother as writing partner, or someone else who understands how to write basic character arcs and motivations. Unlikely to happen, Nolan seems to have hit the Tarantino tier of auteur'hood where he has no filter or collaborator to audit the work, for good or bad.

MJohnston

pixelburp wrote: »

Already banged the drum on the main Tenet thread but part me thinks Nolan could do with less freedom, not more, at this point. More specifically , the return of his brother as writing partner, or someone else who understands how to write basic character arcs and motivations. Unlikely to happen, Nolan seems to have hit the Tarantino tier of auteur'hood where he has no filter or collaborator to audit the work, for good or bad.

Jonathan Nolan?? Creator of the aimless, miserable, and shapeless Westworld TV show? No thank you! I do agree that Nolan should force himself to make something small next, although I loved Tenet.

MJohnston

The White Wolf wrote: »

I won't ask how you managed that. :pac: But yeah would love to have Max right now given what 2021 is delivering.

I’ll just say that it’s possible to sign up for HBO Max subscription with a US Apple account through the App Store.

And it’s possible to setup a US Apple account with PayPal as payment method.

If you need more info, feel free to DM.

Sad Professor

pixelburp wrote: »

Already banged the drum on the main Tenet thread but part me thinks Nolan could do with less freedom, not more, at this point. More specifically , the return of his brother as writing partner, or someone else who understands how to write basic character arcs and motivations. Unlikely to happen, Nolan seems to have hit the Tarantino tier of auteur'hood where he has no filter or collaborator to audit the work, for good or bad.

I think he should make something the on scale of The Prestige again. And like that, maybe a book adaptation. I don't think he needs less freedom to that, just a desire to make something a bit smaller and less financially risky.

Characters aren't Nolan's strong suit, nor his brother's for that matter. His strongest character work in recent years was mostly the result of collaboration with big name stars who insisted on having something to work with it.

titan18

Tbf with how covid is going, it still isn't a bad idea of them to be doing it imo. Still preferable to see the films in the cinema and hopefully we can with Dune in particular

Goodshape

FunLover18 wrote: »

I can't see Nolan signing up to a streaming company after falling put with WB over their decision to release everything on streaming service. He values the cinema too much and a streaming platform is no place for IMAX.

Perhaps the potential for big budget cinema was the only (or biggest) reason to stay with WB – without which, there's no point staying loyal. Plus he may well have seen it as bad faith given their existing arrangements.

Doesn't rule out working with other streaming-focused studios.

Sleeper12

B.A._Baracus wrote:

A random thread. But I just happened to switch on an episode of Baywatch there randomly on TV and it guest starred Elizabeth Berkley (Jessie from Saved by the Bell) The episode in question was in 1992 which was the same year Saved by the Bell ended. This of course is all leading up to her infamous Showgirls movie in 1995.

MisterAnarchy wrote:

From October 22 (8.6 million) to December 8 (12.6 million), HBO Max gained 4 million new active subs (+46.5%).An estimated 554,000 signed up for the HBO Max app from December 25 (Friday) to December 27 (Sunday) Fast and loose ballpark math here, but if Max increases by the same number or percentage over the same seven-week period, it’s looking at between 16.5 million-18.5 million activations by February. It seems like small fry compared to the income to be made by postponing the films to later in the year and giving them an exclusive cinema release.

HBO max had the movie for a month. Its removed tomorrow. The movie now moves on to other streaming sites where people will pay 100 to 15 euros to rent the movie. Obviously they still won't make as much as showing the movie in worldwide covid free cinema but that means shelving the movies for another year.

I'm thinking if all the studios releases a year's worth of movies in the cinema at the same time that none of them will be big earners.