Covid 19 Part XXVIII- 71,942 ROI(2,050 deaths) 51,824 NI (983 deaths) (28/11) Read OP

FinglasFollain · 26-11-2020 2:01pm

IT reporting NPHET strongly against reopening of society at end of lockdown. Quelle surprise..

On second glance - parts. ITs push notification first said society. Then corrected to parts.

26-11-2020 2:04pm

Peter Flynt wrote: »

No.

I was merely pointing out that even the false figures show outbreaks in schools to be high.

You've no knowledge of what is going on in schools.

What else do you not believe?
The Moon Landings?
9-11 was an inside job?

Because, quite frankly, placing 1 million people into buildings with no social distancing is not causing any problems according to you and your like.

Your virus is a sort of nice Santa Claus virus which is not caught or spread among children in schools.

Shame the research carried out among professionals across the world disagrees with you.

The conspiracy theories are we are covering up schools cases or NPHET are massaging numbers to drive panic

seamus · 26-11-2020 2:05pm

FinglasFollain wrote: »

IT reporting NPHET strongly against reopening of society at end of lockdown. Quelle surprise..

Not quite - NPHET are apparently opposed to "parts" of the plan;
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/nphet-signals-strong-opposition-to-parts-of-government-plan-to-exit-lockdown-1.4420274

If I had to guess, NPHET's major issues will be in hospitality and home mixing. Their preference would probably be outside dining only, no pubs, and no more than one household to visit another.

None of which are realistic asks over Xmas. People will visit eachother for eating and drinking. So better to provide controlled ways of doing it than forcing people to resort to uncontrolled ones.

stephenjmcd · 26-11-2020 2:08pm

FinglasFollain wrote: »

IT reporting NPHET strongly against reopening of society at end of lockdown. Quelle surprise..

What a surprise.......

The plan has been well and truly leaked. Their letter will have little influence one would think

KrustyUCC · 26-11-2020 2:15pm

seamus wrote: »

Not quite - NPHET are apparently opposed to "parts" of the plan;
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/nphet-signals-strong-opposition-to-parts-of-government-plan-to-exit-lockdown-1.4420274

If I had to guess, NPHET's major issues will be in hospitality and home mixing. Their preference would probably be outside dining only, no pubs, and no more than one household to visit another.

None of which are realistic asks over Xmas. People will visit eachother for eating and drinking. So better to provide controlled ways of doing it than forcing people to resort to uncontrolled ones.

Wouldn't expect anything less from NPHET

It was always going to be that way

Very unrealistic advice is right especially when NPHET know it's going to be rejected anyway

Eod100 · 26-11-2020 2:18pm

stephenjmcd wrote: »

What a surprise.......

The plan has been well and truly leaked. Their letter will have little influence one would think

Probably not when the government had made their plan before even waiting for NPHET's recommendations.

AdamD · 26-11-2020 2:21pm

Its completely ridiculous that seemingly everything is getting leaked in advance. From NPHET, from Government, they're all at it and its pathetic.

eagle eye · 26-11-2020 2:26pm

Deleted User wrote:

You see, increasingly the expert view is schools are not hotspots. Dont just read the linked article. There are numerous studies linked

I posted a report of a study carried out by Princeton Environmental Institute, Johns Hopkins University and the University of California.
It stated that children and young adults were found to be potentially much more important to transmitting the virus, especially within households, than previous studies have identified.

Have you read that report? Do you have reasons to say it's flawed?

seamus · 26-11-2020 2:33pm

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Wouldn't expect anything less from NPHET

It was always going to be that way

Very unrealistic advice is right especially when NPHET know it's going to be rejected anyway

Only thing is, there's a man above claiming to have gotten word that pubs will be allowed open on Friday 4th, and I have no reason to believe he's bullsh1tting.

So *if* that's the case, then obviously NPHET is going to advise against it.

26-11-2020 2:34pm

eagle eye wrote: »

I posted a report of a study carried out by Princeton Environmental Institute, Johns Hopkins University and the University of California.
It stated that children and young adults were found to be potentially much more important to transmitting the virus, especially within households, than previous studies have identified.

Have you read that report? Do you have reasons to say it's flawed?

Have you reason to suggest the papers linked in the article I posted are flawed?

The data on schools is moving the debate significantly , and I quote from Nature article on this, so not my words lest I be accused of spreading conspiracy

Schools and childcare centres seem to provide an ideal setting for coronavirus transmission because large groups gather indoors for extended periods of time, says Walter Haas, an infectious-diseases epidemiologist at the Robert Koch Institute in Berlin. Yet, globally, COVID-19 infections are still much lower among children than among adults, he says. “They seem rather to follow the situation than to drive it.”

But even in places where community infections were on the rise, outbreaks in schools were uncommon, particularly when precautions were taken to reduce transmission. More than 65,000 schools in Italy reopened in September, as case numbers were climbing in the community. But only 1,212 campuses had experienced outbreaks four weeks later1. In 93% of cases, only one infection was reported, and only one high school had a cluster of more than 10 infected people

Repost your link if you don't mind, as I am not sure if I have read that particular article, as I have read much presenting many varying views

Eod100 · 26-11-2020 2:35pm

Assumed from all the coverage it would be tomorrow it would be announced:

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1331947615760617472

Turtwig · 26-11-2020 2:36pm

No problem with retail and many services sectors restrictions being relaxed. Hairdressers and the like should open. Have a serious concern over indoor dining and pubs. Outdoors maybe but indoors no. People were going to gather in their houses anyway. The indoor venues being open leads to huge potential for super spreader events as households gatherings that wouldn't be mixed will now be far more likely to be mixed in the public venues. Only takes a few individuals to spread it to dozens.

This is going to cause far more economic pain in the long term. Nevermind, what the status of our health care will be.

If a vaccine was five years off I could understand this more. But, in all likelihood it's much closer. Could we not have a sort of national holiday or commeration then?

KrustyUCC · 26-11-2020 2:38pm

Eod100 wrote: »

Assumed from all the coverage it would be tomorrow it would be announced:

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1331947615760617472

Good luck with that one Leo

No matter the case number people will travel home for Christmas

He even admitted that the other day

KrustyUCC · 26-11-2020 2:41pm

Turtwig wrote: »

No problem with retail and many services sectors restrictions being relaxed. Hairdressers and the like should open. Have a serious concern over indoor dining and pubs. Outdoors maybe but indoors no. People were going to gather in their houses anyway. The indoor venues being open leads to huge potential for super spreader events as households gatherings that wouldn't be mixed will now be far more likely to be mixed in the public venues. Only takes a few individuals to spread it to dozens.

This is going to cause far more economic pain in the long term. Nevermind, what the status of our health care will be.

If a vaccine was five years off I could understand this more. But, in all likelihood it's much closer. Could we not have a sort of national holiday or commeration then?

Outdoor dining in December is unrealistic

If people are going to gather in their houses anyway it's better to be in a regulated indoor dining environment than one that's not

Turtwig · 26-11-2020 2:47pm

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Outdoor dining in December is unrealistic

If people are going to gather in their houses anyway it's better to be in a regulated indoor dining environment than one that's not

I would suggest outdoor drinking isn't as unfeasible as outdoor dining.

The problem is they're just going to use both environments; the house and regulated pub. In that regulated environment they'll be exposed to other individuals (from other households) who will also be using both environments. Having indoor venues open compounds the issue.

ElJeffe · 26-11-2020 2:52pm

So so sad

https://news.sky.com/story/honestie-hodges-girl-whose-arrest-caused-outrage-dies-from-coronavirus-at-14-12142840

Eod100 · 26-11-2020 3:06pm

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Good luck with that one Leo

No matter the case number people will travel home for Christmas

He even admitted that the other day

Sure didn't he more or less announce the dates himself? Can't put that genie back in the bottle but the communication is all over the shop

KrustyUCC · 26-11-2020 3:07pm

Eod100 wrote: »

Sure didn't he more or less announce the dates himself? Can't put that genie back in the bottle but the communication is all over the shop

Absolutely but now it's not decided

Going to use that as a threat again

Jokeshop

KrustyUCC · 26-11-2020 3:09pm

Restaurants reopening in doubt after Nphet raise serious concerns

The reopening of restaurants and gastropubs has been cast in doubt after the National Public Health Emergency Team (Nphet) raised concerns with Government plans to reopen the hospitality industry.

In a letter to Health Minister Stephen Donnelly, Nphet has made recommendations which are understood to clash with plans to allow restaurants and pubs that serve food open before Christmas.

However, several senior Government sources have aid the group led by Chief Medical Officer Tony Holohan has raised serious concerns over allowing the hospitality industry reopen over fears it will lead to a spike in new Covid-19 cases.

“Hospitality was always going to be a concern of Nphet’s,” the source added. Another source confirmed central to the Nphet’s concerns was the plan to reopen hospitality industry.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/restaurants-reopening-in-doubt-after-nphet-raise-serious-concerns-39795089.html

No doubt the government will roll over as usual

Never mind keeping thousands of people out of work, paying them PUP or restaurants and pubs might never open again

eagle eye · 26-11-2020 3:11pm

Deleted User wrote:

Have you reason to suggest the papers linked in the article I posted are flawed?

My contention is that we have been giving differing opinions and not from insane sources.
What I do see in a lot if articles is an unwillingness to fully commit and be definitive.
The quotes you have in.your post are more argumentative than definitive.

Here's the study

Furthermore, children and young adults were found to be potentially much more important to transmitting the virus — especially within households — than previous studies have identified, according to a paper by researchers from the United States and India published Sept. 30 in the journal Science.

Researchers from the Princeton Environmental Institute (PEI), Johns Hopkins University and the University of California, Berkeley, worked with public health officials in the southeast Indian states of Tamil Nadu and Andhra Pradesh to track the infection pathways and mortality rate of 575,071 individuals who were exposed to 84,965 confirmed cases of COVID-19, the disease caused by SARS-CoV-2. It is the largest contact tracing study — which is the process of identifying people who came into contact with an infected person — conducted in the world for any disease.

Lead researcher Ramanan Laxminarayan, a senior research scholar in PEI, said that the paper is the first large study to capture the extraordinary extent to which SARS-CoV-2 hinges on “superspreading,” in which a small percentage of the infected population passes the virus on to more people. The researchers found that 71% of infected individuals did not infect any of their contacts, while a mere 8% of infected individuals accounted for 60% of new infections.

“Our study presents the largest empirical demonstration of superspreading that we are aware of in any infectious disease,” Laxminarayan said. “Superspreading events are the rule rather than the exception when one is looking at the spread of COVID-19, both in India and likely in all affected places.”

https://www.princeton.edu/news/2020/09/30/largest-covid-19-contact-tracing-study-date-finds-children-key-spread-evidence

stephenjmcd · 26-11-2020 3:11pm

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Restaurants reopening in doubt after Nphet raise serious concerns

The reopening of restaurants and gastropubs has been cast in doubt after the National Public Health Emergency Team (Nphet) raised concerns with Government plans to reopen the hospitality industry.

In a letter to Health Minister Stephen Donnelly, Nphet has made recommendations which are understood to clash with plans to allow restaurants and pubs that serve food open before Christmas.

However, several senior Government sources have aid the group led by Chief Medical Officer Tony Holohan has raised serious concerns over allowing the hospitality industry reopen over fears it will lead to a spike in new Covid-19 cases.

“Hospitality was always going to be a concern of Nphet’s,” the source added. Another source confirmed central to the Nphet’s concerns was the plan to reopen hospitality industry.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/restaurants-reopening-in-doubt-after-nphet-raise-serious-concerns-39795089.html

No doubt the government will roll over as usual

Never mind keeping thousands of people out of work, paying them PUP or restaurants and pubs might never open again

Personally I don't think government will roll over. Most journalists saying government expected it and its no surprise to them, rte saying its still going ahead.

"Ministers look set to agree to reopen restaurants and gastro pubs at some point in December and to allow them to serve food indoors."

podgeandrodge · 26-11-2020 3:11pm

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Restaurants reopening in doubt after Nphet raise serious concerns

The reopening of restaurants and gastropubs has been cast in doubt after the National Public Health Emergency Team (Nphet) raised concerns with Government plans to reopen the hospitality industry.

In a letter to Health Minister Stephen Donnelly, Nphet has made recommendations which are understood to clash with plans to allow restaurants and pubs that serve food open before Christmas.

However, several senior Government sources have aid the group led by Chief Medical Officer Tony Holohan has raised serious concerns over allowing the hospitality industry reopen over fears it will lead to a spike in new Covid-19 cases.

“Hospitality was always going to be a concern of Nphet’s,” the source added. Another source confirmed central to the Nphet’s concerns was the plan to reopen hospitality industry.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/restaurants-reopening-in-doubt-after-nphet-raise-serious-concerns-39795089.html

No doubt the government will roll over as usual

Never mind keeping thousands of people out of work, paying them PUP or restaurants and pubs might never open again

I think we all know it will cause a spike, opening anything will. But there used to be that concept of 'living with covid' which I hope Govt. will remember.

Unfortunately asking NPHET for a view, is like asking your doctor if it's ok for you to go for a few pints every Friday. They're never going to say it's ok!

stephenjmcd · 26-11-2020 3:13pm

Sums it up pretty well. At least make a like for like comparison

https://twitter.com/LukeMartin_DL/status/1331960965429080070?s=19

Funsterdelux · 26-11-2020 3:17pm

Eod100 wrote: »

Sure didn't he more or less announce the dates himself? Can't put that genie back in the bottle but the communication is all over the shop

Leo is writing a letter to Christina Aguilera to ask her to go back in the bottle.

KrustyUCC · 26-11-2020 3:17pm

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Personally I don't think government will roll over. Most journalists saying government expected it and its no surprise to them, rte saying its still going ahead.

"Ministers look set to agree to reopen restaurants and gastro pubs at some point in December and to allow them to serve food indoors."

Might be a fudge so

We want to open on December 7th

NPHET don't want ye opened at all

So we will open around the 14th so be happy

I'll still believe the government will go against NPHET when things are actually opened

I can picture the RTE conversations already

NPHET recommeneded keeping hospitality shut but ye went against them. Why?

Ad nauseam

KrustyUCC · 26-11-2020 3:20pm

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Sums it up pretty well. At least make a like for like comparison

https://twitter.com/LukeMartin_DL/status/1331960965429080070?s=19

Yeah a brilliant comparison from NPHET to use :mad:

NunianVonFuch · 26-11-2020 3:24pm

If they open the restaurants and "Dry" pubs before Christmas there'll be a flood of Christmas parties booked, it's practically guaranteed we lockdown again in January. We may have to anyway with Christmas spikes from Christmas festivities in general. It's foolish to think the Gov aren't aware of this as Varadkar already hinted at locking down again in January.

Now this may be preferable to the Gov, Vintners and the public as they'll get in a bit of a sesh with the vaccine news and let off a bit of steam after this 6 week lockdown ends. Plus everyone in a normal year typically do less socially in January and some have a tradition of having a "Dry" January anyway so it may make more sense to splurge in December and lock up again in January as it won't be too different overall to a normal year.

Mitch Connor · 26-11-2020 3:25pm

KrustyUCC wrote: »

I can picture the RTE conversations already

NPHET recommeneded keeping hospitality shut but ye went against them. Why?

Ad nauseam

I personally don't see this as wrong.

IMO it isn't for NPHET to make recommendations based on economic impact (maybe i am wrong on that). IMO they should make recommendations based on public health and that alone. And the government should make decisons based on their recommendations, weighed against a more encompassing decision set - economy, enforcement, public buy in and public fatigue included.

I have no real issue with NPHET making a recommendation they believe in, nor do I have an issue with the government taking that into consideration and making a different decision (of which I would assume they would consult with NPHET to understand the best way of implenting what they decide upon). And, having made a different decision, I have no issue with them being asked to account for that decision. If it is economic reasons then be clear about it. If they believe the pandemic can be managed differently to NPHET recommendations then be prepared to answer questions on it.

If it was the other way around and they imposed harsher restrictions than recommended I would say the same too.

rob316 · 26-11-2020 3:29pm

Its hardly surprising NPHET shot down the opening of hospitality. Government determined to open them though so will thankfully be ignoring their "concern".

KrustyUCC · 26-11-2020 3:30pm

NunianVonFuch wrote: »

If they open the restaurants and "Dry" pubs before Christmas there'll be a flood of Christmas parties booked, it's practically guaranteed we lockdown again in January. We may have to anyway with Christmas spikes from Christmas festivities in general. It's foolish to think the Gov aren't aware of this as Varadkar already hinted at locking down again in January.

Now this may be preferable to the Gov, Vintners and the public as they'll get in a bit of a sesh with the vaccine news and let off a bit of steam after this 6 week lockdown ends. Plus everyone in a normal year typically do less socially in January and some have a tradition of having a "Dry" January anyway so it may make more sense to splurge in December and lock up again in January as it won't be too different overall to a normal year.

NPHET were threatening another lockdown in January even before this one was brought in so yes that's almost guaranteed

https://extra.ie/2020/10/21/news/irish-news/government-fears-nphet-post-christmas-lockdown

Opening up and closing again at least gives businesses the opportunity to make some money

You can't if you're closed in the possibly the most important month of the year

Covid 19 Part XXVIII- 71,942 ROI(2,050 deaths) 51,824 NI (983 deaths) (28/11) Read OP

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