Covid 19 Part XXVIII- 71,942 ROI(2,050 deaths) 51,824 NI (983 deaths) (28/11) Read OP

26-11-2020 09:09AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Perhaps it is you that still doesn’t get it?

If this was actually a “deadly” virus, do you think the government would be lifting lockdown? Would RTÉ be partying behind closed doors? Would TDs be partying in hotels? Would the public be desperate for shops, restaurants and pubs to be open again?

Deep down, we all know the virus is very mild, particularly the 2nd wave. Hospitals are quieter than ever, ICU is low, death rate is tiny.

We’ll probably have one more lockdown at some point. Then once the elderly are vaccinated it’s curtains for Covid.

In Ireland - why do you think that may be?

"There aren't bodies in the street down my road therefore its all fake news"

speckle · 26-11-2020 09:12AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I have advocated blowing the Shannon bridges since march now and still no one is listening. A checkpoint at Tarmonbarry with two bridge drops a day for anyone who wants to get in. Block the N15 out of Bundoran and at that point if anyone wants to get in, the wilds of Leitrim will take care of them

What wilds of Leitrim? We have no idea of what real wilds are in this country... its very tame here.... than some parts if the world. I will hike in anything you run short of

26-11-2020 09:17AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In Ireland - why do you think that may be?

"There aren't bodies in the street down my road therefore its all fake news"

Because the virus only really kills elderly in very poor health and we have a young population.

Peter Flynt · 26-11-2020 09:21AM

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/1125/1180502-school-outbreaks/

This surely cannot be true . . . especially from reading from some of the "scientists" posting on this thread.

26-11-2020 09:25AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Because the virus only really kills elderly in very poor health and we have a young population.

We have 13% over 65, Belgium have 18%, yet have had 3.3 times our death rate per million. And reading this threads, by all accounts we have the worst health system in Europe

26-11-2020 09:26AM

Peter Flynt wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/1125/1180502-school-outbreaks/

This surely cannot be true . . . especially from reading from some of the "scientists" posting on this thread.

2.5% of outbreaks in an Environment with 20% of the population

26-11-2020 09:30AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We have 13% over 65, Belgium have 18%, yet have had 3.3 times our death rate per million. And reading this threads, by all accounts we have the worst health system in Europe

Over 65s are no major concern. Over 80s in poor health are the ones to watch.

The death toll is not high simply as the virus is not as deadly as some would have you believe.

26-11-2020 09:38AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Over 65s are no major concern. Over 80s in poor health are the ones to watch.

The death toll is not high simply as the virus is not as deadly as some would have you believe.

Overall life expectancy in Ireland is higher than Belgium

Eod100 · 26-11-2020 10:15AM

There's a line here that travelling between different counties for Christmas "will likely be discouraged and not travelling is the safest option." Seems to be a common pattern of government easing restrictions and then blaming people if they follow the new guidelines. I'm not sure is it arse covering with them ready to blame people if cases spike after Christmas but it's getting a bit farcical at this stage. https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/health/what-you-need-to-know-if-you-are-heading-home-to-your-native-county-to-celebrate-christmas-39793206.html?__twitter_impression=true

bb1234567 · 26-11-2020 10:17AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Over 65s are no major concern. Over 80s in poor health are the ones to watch.

The death toll is not high simply as the virus is not as deadly as some would have you believe.

So why did 0.3% of Peru's population die even though their elderly population is a fraction of ours ?

ExMachina1000 · 26-11-2020 10:26AM

A huge study on covid 19 has found over 12,000 mutations of the virus. Most are neutral to the virus with very few being advantageous or disadvantageous. As the vaccine begins to be rolled out scientists expect the virus to mutate further to try circumvent the human immune system. They are however confident that they can tweak the vaccine as required as they do with all vaccines

As reported by Reuters yesterday.

"In a study using a global dataset of virus genomes from 46,723 people with COVID-19 from 99 countries, researchers identified more than 12,700 mutations, or changes, in the SARS-CoV-2 virus"
Interesting stuff

podgeandrodge · 26-11-2020 10:26AM

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Pubs ordering in pizzas and chips from next door were not abiding by the rules set by government

Ahh ok. I had been under the impression that they only had to serve a substantial meal costing at least €9.

bb1234567 · 26-11-2020 10:33AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Over 65s are no major concern. Over 80s in poor health are the ones to watch.

The death toll is not high simply as the virus is not as deadly as some would have you believe.

55,000 Americans under 65 have died. Largely in their early 60s . If I was over 60 I certainly would not have such a blasé attitude about contracting covid as you seem to think most people do , the risk for anyone over 60 is appreciable. You also always bang on about death rate as if it's the only negative effect you can experience. Hospitalization or ICU treatment not exactly desirable outcome

Russman · 26-11-2020 10:35AM

Eod100 wrote: »

There's a line here that travelling between different counties for Christmas "will likely be discouraged and not travelling is the safest option." Seems to be a common pattern of government easing restrictions and then blaming people if they follow the new guidelines. I'm not sure is it arse covering with them ready to blame people if cases spike after Christmas but it's getting a bit farcical at this stage. https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/health/what-you-need-to-know-if-you-are-heading-home-to-your-native-county-to-celebrate-christmas-39793206.html?__twitter_impression=true

I agree its getting a bit silly with all the leaks, half stories, speculation, will it be this ?, will it be that ? that's going on. They're pandering to too many interests imo. It would have been simpler if they'd stuck to "we'll announce the decision on xxx date" and just stayed with that. No matter what date they picked every cnut and his mother will want it to be 3 days earlier for them anyway.

Plus I'd guess there's probably a realisation that they need to try a bit of ar$e covering to a degree - they know they're going to go against the medical experts, they know its a big risk, and they know that in January if it explodes in their faces it'll be them in front of the cameras this time. NPHET will have a great big "get out of jail free" card to play.

stephenjmcd · 26-11-2020 10:35AM

podgeandrodge wrote: »

Ahh ok. I had been under the impression that they only had to serve a substantial meal costing at least €9.

Your correct, they were playing by the rules by getting food from a takeaway for example.

This is what might be not allowed this time around.

KrustyUCC · 26-11-2020 10:36AM

Eod100 wrote: »

There's a line here that travelling between different counties for Christmas "will likely be discouraged and not travelling is the safest option." Seems to be a common pattern of government easing restrictions and then blaming people if they follow the new guidelines. I'm not sure is it arse covering with them ready to blame people if cases spike after Christmas but it's getting a bit farcical at this stage. https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/health/what-you-need-to-know-if-you-are-heading-home-to-your-native-county-to-celebrate-christmas-39793206.html?__twitter_impression=true

Likely be discouraged? Lol

Don't be bold boys and guys to travel home to see friends, family, partners over Christmas

That's some joke alright

CalamariFritti · 26-11-2020 10:36AM

Deleted User wrote: »

In Ireland - why do you think that may be?

"There aren't bodies in the street down my road therefore its all fake news"

There aren't bodies in the street anywhere. If we returned to normal tomorrow and forgot about the whole thing there wouldnt be bodies in the street anywhere. And I know this is a figure of speech and not not to be taken literally but there wouldnt be 'figure of speech' bodies in the streets anywhere either. Over 50 million people already died this year worldwide like every year.

We now have several attempts at getting at IFR - strangely enough not necessarily ordered or even sanctioned by western governments - and they all work out at about 0.1% or 0.2%. And thats mostly confined to people above life expectancy witch co morbidities, People who are likely to not survive a flu either.

Why are we ignoring all this?

bb1234567 · 26-11-2020 10:39AM

CalamariFritti wrote: »

There aren't bodies in the street anywhere. If we returned to normal tomorrow and forgot about the whole thing there wouldnt be bodies in the street anywhere. And I know this is a figure of speech and not not to be taken literally but there wouldnt be 'figure of speech' bodies in the streets anywhere either.

Except Ecuador where there were literally bodies in the street

Cluedo Monopoly · 26-11-2020 10:41AM

The sooner this damned toy show is over the better. Tubs is making such a meal of it. He truly believes he is going to save the world.

26-11-2020 10:42AM

CalamariFritti wrote: »

There aren't bodies in the street anywhere. If we returned to normal tomorrow and forgot about the whole thing there wouldnt be bodies in the street anywhere. And I know this is a figure of speech and not not to be taken literally but there wouldnt be 'figure of speech' bodies in the streets anywhere either.

We now have several attempts at getting at IFR - strangely enough not necessarily ordered or even sanctioned by western governments - and the all work out at about 0.1% or 0.2%

Have close to 100% of the population of Belgium have the virus? Because 0.13% of the population have died

Eod100 · 26-11-2020 10:44AM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Likely be discouraged? Lol

Don't be bold boys and guys to travel home to see friends, family, partners over Christmas

That's some joke alright

And the frustrating thing is they're open non-essential businesses weeks before people are "allowed" travel for Christmas but I've not seen anything about people not being discouraged to shop. People are going to travel either way but it should be either safe or not. They're trying to have their cake and eat it with this "you can do X" and then blame people for doing X if cases spike after Christmas.

Arghus · 26-11-2020 10:44AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Perhaps it is you that still doesn’t get it?

If this was actually a “deadly” virus, do you think the government would be lifting lockdown? Would RTÉ be partying behind closed doors? Would TDs be partying in hotels? Would the public be desperate for shops, restaurants and pubs to be open again?

Deep down, we all know the virus is very mild, particularly the 2nd wave. Hospitals are quieter than ever, ICU is low, death rate is tiny.

We’ll probably have one more lockdown at some point. Then once the elderly are vaccinated it’s curtains for Covid.

I'm not arguing that it is a deadly disease.

It is obviously not a deadly disease for the majority - the vast majority of people.

I understand that and I don't dispute that.

But you seemingly can't appreciate, despite numerous people having tried to explain it to you numerous times, what the real risk of Covid is. I know you're fully committed to never ever seeing things a different way, but I will give it one more lash, for the craic...

Covid doesn't make most people that ill, but it's highly, highly infectious and spreads very, very easily and it does make a proportion of people ill enough to require hospitalisation and ICU treatment etc.

That's the essential problem - most people will be fine, but a proportion of people won't be and it can infect a lot of people quite quickly, if given the chance, and sending even as much as 2-3% as far as hospital, never mind anywhere else, is potentially enough to overwhelm your health system if your cases become too high. Believe it or not, it is.

That is real. That is something that can actually happen. This has happened and is happening in some other countries right now. This is something to be avoided. This is why states all across the world - not just Ireland - are taking measures to try to stop this from happening.

That's it in a nutshell: not deadly for most, but very transmissible and can potentially sicken enough people to collapse your health system if you let it. If you can't accept at least that, I don't really know what else to say to you.

What the public wants doesn't change the reality of the above paragraph. What RTE does doesn't either.

The government are hoping the lid can be kept on it enough and then...and then...uh, sure maybe it'll be sound...sure it's Christmas.

I think there's a possibility that we might keep the numbers steadyish, but the more I think about it the less I actually believe it... At level 5 we're still coming in at over 200 cases a day, which is, quite frankly, a lot. And that's where we're starting from? And, essentially, when you increase the opportunities for people to meet, you increase the chances for the virus to spread? And we're making a conscious choice to do that - even though we apparently know - if we use our brain - what the result will be?

I'm actually pretty worried that we are sleepwalking into horrendous numbers through a mixture of apathy, fatigue and a lack of political leadership and that we'll be in an absolute world of shít again within a shortish enough space of time.

But, you know, maybe I am nuts and maybe you're right. Maybe it really isn't anything to be concerned over. Yeah, fck it. Hey, you know, actually, I think it's going to be the best Christmas ever and that now that the shops are opening soon all our problems are going to go away!

manniot2 · 26-11-2020 10:50AM

CalamariFritti wrote: »

There aren't bodies in the street anywhere. If we returned to normal tomorrow and forgot about the whole thing there wouldnt be bodies in the street anywhere. And I know this is a figure of speech and not not to be taken literally but there wouldnt be 'figure of speech' bodies in the streets anywhere either. Over 50 million people already died this year worldwide like every year.

We now have several attempts at getting at IFR - strangely enough not necessarily ordered or even sanctioned by western governments - and they all work out at about 0.1% or 0.2%. And thats mostly confined to people above life expectancy witch co morbidities, People who are likely to not survive a flu either.

Why are we ignoring all this?

Because its easier to fool people than convince them they have been fooled!

26-11-2020 10:53AM

Arghus wrote: »

It's a difficult situation, people are beaten down and businesses are beaten down - I understand completely how people feel they can't do much more of level 5 and the government feels it can't do much more of level 5 either. I do get why there is a clamour to leave the current restrictions.

But we are deluding ourselves if we think the outcome is going to be anything but a sharp rise in cases and eventually more disruption, chaos and closures. This isn't grim fantasy - This has already happened over the Summer and Autumn. It will surely happen all over again.

And now we'll have the extra fuel of cases still in the hundreds, as opposed to the low double and single figures like they were when restrictions were lifted initally during summertime, prevailing weather conditions that are already favorable to the spread of respiratory illnesses and, of course, the added element of all the socialising and meet-ups that will inevitably happen at Christmas.

Just reading there earlier that FG TD's were arguing in favour of opening all pubs at the party meeting this evening - what can you say? People just still don't get it.

What do you propose though? Stay in lockdown indefinitely?

Right now most people would take level 5 ending, knowing full well we'll end up back there again, because the alternative is to just stay at level 5..

Extending level 5 for another week or two would probably have a better payoff but it would be difficult to take and there doesn't seem to be much will for it.

I don't think compliance is particularly high right now anyway so I'm not sure the level outlined is going to make a huge difference either way. In Dublin we've been in some form of heavy restriction for months now, certainly in my social circles in the last couple of weeks people have been meeting up and have stopped even attempting to hide it. Not going to fault them either, months of no social activity isn't sustainable whatsoever.

Turtwig · 26-11-2020 10:54AM

manniot2 wrote: »

Because its easier to fool people than convince them they have been fooled!

Ironic though that the people who most often say this are the ones deepest in their own echo chamber. "Everyone has been fooled - but us."

manniot2 · 26-11-2020 10:54AM

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

The sooner this damned toy show is over the better. Tubs is making such a meal of it. He truly believes he is going to save the world.

I have absolutely no idea why the likes of this is going ahead when people's livelihoods have been taken off them for nearly a year now. Why does Tubridy get to work? What is essential about it?

I am firmly against the lockdown, but I cannot understand the double standards here. Them same with the GAA - you cant go outside 5km to see your family but some lad playing for Cavan can do what he likes - incredible really.

CalamariFritti · 26-11-2020 11:00AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Have close to 100% of the population of Belgium have the virus? Because 0.13% of the population have died

Which points me to my biggest point of criticism.
We have no idea how may people had it. After 8 months. No idea and no serious attempt to find out. Belgium is likely to have seen some sort of saturation indeed or not far off it.

Its not like I'm making these numbers up. WHO themselves say its 0.23% and 0.05% under 70 years of age.

bb1234567 · 26-11-2020 11:01AM

CalamariFritti wrote: »

There aren't bodies in the street anywhere. If we returned to normal tomorrow and forgot about the whole thing there wouldnt be bodies in the street anywhere. And I know this is a figure of speech and not not to be taken literally but there wouldnt be 'figure of speech' bodies in the streets anywhere either. Over 50 million people already died this year worldwide like every year.

We now have several attempts at getting at IFR - strangely enough not necessarily ordered or even sanctioned by western governments - and they all work out at about 0.1% or 0.2%. And thats mostly confined to people above life expectancy witch co morbidities, People who are likely to not survive a flu either.

Why are we ignoring all this?

Interesting please post some of these studies . I have never ever seen a study indicating an ifr below 0.5% in Europe

26-11-2020 11:09AM

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Which points me to my biggest point of criticism.
We have no idea how may people had it. After 8 months. No idea and no serious attempt to find out. Belgium is likely to have seen some sort of saturation indeed or not far off it.

Its not like I'm making these numbers up. WHO themselves say its 0.23% and 0.05% under 70 years of age.

Belgium have not had saturation. If they had, there would have been no second surge. Once a country gets to 30 to 40% coverage case rates will naturally slow, and at 60 to 70 it will be at a back background level with infections ongoing, but no surge

ElJeffe · 26-11-2020 11:21AM

Disappointing to hear and read the pubs will open again this side of Xmas. Going to a super spreader event all over the Xmas and New Year as Irish people have an awful problem with drink and self control. You have to feel sorry for doctors and nurses who will have to deal with the consequences come mid January onward and the inevitable closing of businesses yet again.

Covid 19 Part XXVIII- 71,942 ROI(2,050 deaths) 51,824 NI (983 deaths) (28/11) Read OP

Comments