Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

MrStuffins · 26-11-2020 02:06PM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Please enlighten us with the scientific data that shows how pubs are bigger sources of the virus spread than say private homes? House parties with cheap booze that can go on all night...

House parties aren't allowed either.

Tenzor07 · 26-11-2020 02:08PM

MrStuffins wrote: »

House parties aren't allowed either.

Last time I checked this isn't China and HP's have been going on all year....

MrStuffins · 26-11-2020 02:11PM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Last time I checked this isn't China and HP's have been going on all year....

Ninja Chefs

"What about house parties, which are also not allowed?"

Bars where people's behaviour doesn't change with alcohol consumption

"What about other European countries?"

"What about China?"

Your arguments have more holes than a €9 substantial portion of Swiss Cheese!

Tenzor07 · 26-11-2020 02:27PM

MrStuffins wrote: »

Ninja Chefs "What about house parties, which are also not allowed?" Bars where people's behaviour doesn't change with alcohol consumption"What about other European countries?""What about China?"
Your arguments have more holes than a €9 substantial portion of Swiss Cheese!

I've told you that the rest of Europe have had their bars open with restrictions since March..
And unless your head is buried in the sand then you'll know that House Parties have been going on more-so than before the bars were shut.

If you have a point I'd like to hear it... if you're just going to use Whacky "science" to justify your support of restrictions then no point in replying to me.

MrStuffins · 26-11-2020 02:32PM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

House Parties have been going on more-so than before the bars were shut.

My point is that there are people up and down the country who can't be trusted and who will act the b*llocks

Your answer to that is to tell me that there are people up and down the country, having house parties, and acting the b*llocks.

Glad we could agree on this!

MelbourneMan · 26-11-2020 02:39PM

MrStuffins wrote: »

My point is that there are people up and down the country who can't be trusted and who will act the b*llocks

Your answer to that is to tell me that there are people up and down the country, having house parties, and acting the b*llocks.

Glad we could agree on this!

To perhaps draw a close to this particular line of discussion, one must consider that on balance, despite some selfish, antisocial, and law breaking elements of society who will participate in so called house parties, the overall impact of this on case numbers is lower than it would be for the greater numbers who would patronise state sanctioned opening of public houses.

On balance, keeping pubs closed, and exerting punitive pressure on illegal congregations, is to the greater good, and thus the correct policy.

Tazz T · 26-11-2020 02:47PM

fin12 wrote: »

So if they don’t let the pubs that don’t serve food this month, that means then they won’t be opening till February/ March and it will be something else then to stop them. I suppose Paddy’s Day the issue then.

What a f*cking joke.

Not a chance until summer. Third wave will be kicking in Feb/Mar.

mightyreds · 26-11-2020 02:49PM

MelbourneMan wrote: »

To perhaps draw a close to this particular line of discussion, one must consider that on balance, despite some selfish, antisocial, and law breaking elements of society who will participate in so called house parties, the overall impact of this on case numbers is lower than it would be for the greater numbers who would patronise state sanctioned opening of public houses.

On balance, keeping pubs closed, and exerting punitive pressure on illegal congregations, is to the greater good, and thus the correct policy.

There is 0 pressure put on illegal congregations and they are growing, people I know are becoming less compliant, the amount of people I have heard say they were at a house gathering over the last 2 weeks is probably 60% of people i chat to.

I have been to the local pub, hotels and some restaurants when open and they were all compliant, they had people spaced out and took no messing, the craic was 0 it was terrible, no music no chatting to strangers.

I have also been over to friends for drinks and there is no control at the events music is on, everyone up dancing hugging, drink is cheaper so you bring more and get hammered, saves a fortune though thats the upside.

For me its much of a muchness just fed up of spending 90% of my time in the same 4 walls would like to actually get out and live a bit now.

Tenzor07 · 26-11-2020 02:50PM

MrStuffins wrote: »

My point is that there are people up and down the country who can't be trusted and who will act the b*llocks
Your answer to that is to tell me that there are people up and down the country, having house parties, and acting the b*llocks.
Glad we could agree on this!

Yea, still not a scientific reason to keep the pubs closed..."can't be trusted and who will act the b*llocks"

Tenzor07 · 26-11-2020 02:56PM

mightyreds wrote: »

There is 0 pressure put on illegal congregations and they are growing, people I know are becoming less compliant, the amount of people I have heard say they were at a house gathering over the last 2 weeks is probably 60% of people i chat to.
I have been to the local pub, hotels and some restaurants when open and they were all compliant, they had people spaced out and took no messing, the craic was 0 it was terrible, no music no chatting to strangers.
I have also been over to friends for drinks and there is no control at the events music is on, everyone up dancing hugging, drink is cheaper so you bring more and get hammered, saves a fortune though thats the upside.
For me its much of a muchness just fed up of spending 90% of my time in the same 4 walls would like to actually get out and live a bit now.

This is my basic point, keeping Bars closed achieves nothing except to put companies out of businesses permanently, keep workers dependent on the state for income, kill commerce in city areas where Bars are located meaning everyone from the retail/food workers to Taxi drivers also lose income and have to rely on the state for income..

People at least can be regulated in Bars..

growleaves · 26-11-2020 02:58PM

MelbourneMan wrote: »

To perhaps draw a close to this particular line of discussion, one must consider that on balance, despite some selfish, antisocial, and law breaking elements of society who will participate in so called house parties, the overall impact of this on case numbers is lower than it would be for the greater numbers who would patronise state sanctioned opening of public houses.

On balance, keeping pubs closed, and exerting punitive pressure on illegal congregations, is to the greater good, and thus the correct policy.

I disagree. I think what you're saying - especially when you use words like "deviant" or "antisocial" - is an inversion of the truth.

We should be putting pressure on people like yourself to stop championing a destructive, unethical policy that impairs freedom, prosperity and rips up the social fabric and instead follow a policy that is at least neutral with respect to these fundamental aspects of our lives. As many in our medical and scientific community (i.e. the Dr. Jack Lambert group of 170 doctors and scientists) now recommend.

fin12 · 26-11-2020 03:00PM

Tazz T wrote: »

Not a chance until summer. Third wave will be kicking in Feb/Mar.

No lockdown in January again so opening up again February/ March. Rolling lockdowns.....

When they open economy again March , will use Paddy’s Day as excuse pubs can’t open.

MrStuffins · 26-11-2020 03:10PM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Yea, still not a scientific reason to keep the pubs closed..."can't be trusted and who will act the b*llocks"

You're calling for science, but literally a few posts up from this you called science "whacky" and even put the word in quotes

Tenzor07 wrote: »

If you have a point I'd like to hear it... if you're just going to use Whacky "science" to justify your support of restrictions then no point in replying to me.

You're all over the shop pal.

BringBackMick · 26-11-2020 03:18PM

Nobody to open?

weldoninhio · 26-11-2020 03:26PM

MelbourneMan wrote: »

I would refer you to my post a couple of stages above and ask you to similarly consider, do you truly think it at all possible that those tasked with providing pandemic analysis advice to the government at this time would have any such motivation as an 'anti alcohol narrative'? Again, I would suggest this shows rather a lack of understanding of their terms of reference, the people involved, and the issues they are dealing with, or, something closer to an imagined conspiracy theory as a placeholder for that lack of understanding. Can you cite any firm evidence for your impression ?

I would urge people to accept the bona fides, knowledge, experience, and motivation to act in the interest of Ireland's fight against the pandemic, of the members of NPHET. Anyone doubting it is surely displaying some irrational frustration rather than truly arriving at that erroneous conclusion through considered reflection.

It would do everyone good to accept that there is no incompetence, hidden agendas, 'anti-pub' bias, or other such imagined motivations behind NPHET's advice.

Why did Dr Death allow hundreds enter Ireland in March/April of this year to attend an anti-alcohol conference when all sports and public gatherings etc were banned, if he was not anti-alcohol??

LuasSimon · 26-11-2020 03:47PM

Restaurants will do well to open in December not to mind gastro pubs listening to Nphet spokespeople.

Degag · 26-11-2020 04:16PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Dr Death

Is this rubbish really necessary?

MrStuffins · 26-11-2020 04:49PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Dr Death

Anyone who doesn't want the pubs to be opened unrestricted immediately gets shouted down with "agenda".

And then they post stuff like this.

Hulk Hands · 26-11-2020 05:47PM

MrStuffins wrote: »

Anyone who doesn't want the pubs to be opened unrestricted immediately gets shouted down with "agenda".

And then they post stuff like this.

Despite that, the point is very valid.

When everything was being shut down in March, why did Mr. Holohan brush off questioning and say "no need to cancel" the anti alcohol event? A thousand plus group of attendees from all over the world, just as the pandemic was reaching fever pitch

weldoninhio · 26-11-2020 05:50PM

MrStuffins wrote: »

Anyone who doesn't want the pubs to be opened unrestricted immediately gets shouted down with "agenda".

And then they post stuff like this.

No reply as to why hundreds were allowed travel to Ireland to talk about the dangers of delicious creamy pints??

Who, in this or any other thread, has asked for “pubs to be opened unrestricted immediately”?? Your mask is slipping. Pun unintended.

MrStuffins · 26-11-2020 05:59PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

No reply as to why hundreds were allowed travel to Ireland to talk about the dangers of delicious creamy pints??

Sorry I don't deal in whataboutery. This thread is about pubs.

Who, in this or any other thread, has asked for “pubs to be opened unrestricted immediately”??

Loads of people on this very thread.

never_mind · 26-11-2020 05:59PM

BringBackMick wrote: »

Nobody to open?

I heard this. What bothers me is the rhetoric around house parties. Sorry, but we all know what happens in pubs... with a few drinks on board a lot of my mates will invite me round to theirs afterwards - I'm not a teenager, I haven't been to a houseparty in years but I have been in people's house after a few pints to wind down on the way home.

I heard earlier that NPHET are advising against gastro pubs to not open - it's is getting a bit ridiculous at this stage. For one sector to be scapegoated to this extreme is a bit non-sensical. I know myself that when I do go to a pub it's usually me and my OH and maybe 1-2 others for food and a few drinks then home to bed (unless we bring them home with us for a night cap - how posh of us!). The fact is that there is no hard data in Irish contexts that has shown that pubs create an upsurge of vetors. Let them open and regulate and monitor them - don't throw them under the bus.

We all want Covid to be over and it's not. The plan to 'live' with Covid is now turning into a plan to 'exist' with Covid. Some people (drinkers and non-drinkers alike) have decided that alcohol and one extreme example of the Berlin Bar in town are to blame for the surges. Schools, hospitals, and nursing homes seem to be the hot beds. 'Community transmission' is a lazy way of saying they didn't bother to contract trace effectively.

Open the gastro pubs at the very least and give businesses and people a chance to enjoy what remnants of the sector is left. It's too easy to say "if you don't like it, don't go"; it's a lazy way of arguing for the opening of pubs. What we should be looking at is enforcing Covid measures in these areas. Some say it's non-essential, but social lives are essential - we are social beings, it's literally in our DNA.

weldoninhio · 26-11-2020 06:08PM

MrStuffins wrote: »

Sorry I don't deal in whataboutery. This thread is about pubs.

Loads of people on this very thread.

Yes. And an anti-pub conference is very relevant to it.

MrStuffins · 26-11-2020 06:17PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Yes. And an anti-pub conference is very relevant to it.

Sounds like whataboutery to me.

It's ironinc that you are crying about anti this, anti that, masks slipping etc........

Your "Dr Death" jibes and the like shows exactly where the real bias lies!

26-11-2020 06:18PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

No reply as to why hundreds were allowed travel to Ireland to talk about the dangers of delicious creamy pints??

Who, in this or any other thread, has asked for “pubs to be opened unrestricted immediately”?? Your mask is slipping. Pun unintended.

Exactly, why bother engaging in honest debate when you can dream up nonsensical tangents. As the argument against reopening the traditional pubs is lost, fantasy becomes their only friend: "no restrictions means anarchy...people getting plastered...jumping on each other...Covid will be unstoppable..." and other irrational drivel. What unites all of these gloom merchants is that they haven't been near a pub in a long time, then neither should anyone else in December and beyond. Staying at home minding their own business isn't good enough, they want to meddle in other people's affairs because it gives their miserable existence meaning.

weldoninhio · 26-11-2020 06:19PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Exactly, why bother engaging in honest debate when you can dream up nonsensical tangents. As the argument against reopening the traditional pubs is lost, fantasy becomes their only friend: "no restrictions means anarchy...people getting plastered...jumping on each other...Covid will be unstoppable..." and other irrational drivel. What unites all of these gloom merchants is that they haven't been near a pub in a long time, then neither should anyone else in December and beyond. Staying at home minding their own business isn't good enough, they want to meddle in other people's affairs because it gives their miserable existence meaning.

100% and it’s absolutely pathetic.

Degag · 26-11-2020 06:20PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Yes. And an anti-pub conference is very relevant to it.

I had not heard about this conference but after googling i presume you are speaking about a Global Alcohol Policy Conference that apparently took place in Dublin Castle from 9th-11th March.

We were not in Lockdown at that stage. Nearly all sporting events were going ahead i believe. Pubs were all open for another few days after it finished. So i'm not sure what he was supposed to do about it when there were no restrictions for any other event that was taking place.

Not sure as to what the conference entailed but it sounds pretty disingenuous to call it anti-alcohol seeing as it seems to be around alcohol policy and regulation which is a totally different thing.

PTH2009 · 26-11-2020 06:21PM

I'm guessing they will get rid of the rule in where you can stay as long as you want once you're 2m away from another table?

105 mins across the board, no way will places tell the locals yo buzz off after that time.

weldoninhio · 26-11-2020 06:22PM

MrStuffins wrote: »

Sounds like whataboutery to me.

It's ironinc that you are crying about anti this, anti that, masks slipping etc........

Your "Dr Death" jibes and the like shows exactly where the real bias lies!

Sounds like whataboutery to me.

Why you talking about my “jibes”, I thought “ This thread is about pubs.”?? Holohan is provably against pubs, he is advising the govt about keeping pubs closed. Isn’t this a conflict of interests?

weldoninhio · 26-11-2020 06:28PM

Degag wrote: »

I had not heard about this conference but after googling i presume you are speaking about a Global Alcohol Policy Conference that apparently took place in Dublin Castle from 9th-11th March.

We were not in Lockdown at that stage. Nearly all sporting events were going ahead i believe. Pubs were all open for another few days after it finished. So i'm not sure what he was supposed to do about it when there were no restrictions for any other event that was taking place.

Not sure as to what the conference entailed but it sounds pretty disingenuous to call it anti-alcohol seeing as it seems to be around alcohol policy and regulation which is a totally different thing.

Ireland vs Italy had been cancelled and Italian fans were asked not to travel to Ireland. That was 26th February. Yet hundreds of the temperance movement were welcomed a week or two later. I wonder how many attended the Conference Gala Dinner. St Patrick’s Day was also cancelled by this stage.

Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

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