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Trump vs Biden 2020, Day 64 of the Pennsylvania count (pt 5) Read OP

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Comments

  • #8432
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,924 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    bewareofthedog wrote: »
    As part of a plea deal, early this year he tried to revoke it.

    He didnt try to revoke it. Trump lackey Barr tried to revoke it.


  • #8433
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,924 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    bewareofthedog wrote: »
    Why would he have purposely lied if the FBI had already listened to all his phone calls and cleared him?

    he admitted he lied. people who haven't lied don't do that.


  • #8434
    bewareofthedog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 432 ✭✭bewareofthedog


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    He didnt try to revoke it. Trump lackey Barr tried to revoke it.

    He did back in January. I don't see much of a mention of Barr in that article.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/14/michael-flynn-guilty-plea-withdraw-099021

    "Former national security adviser Michael Flynn — the only Trump administration official to face criminal prosecution in special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation — is seeking to withdraw the guilty plea he offered more than two years ago to a charge of making false statements to the FBI.

    The move, made just two weeks before Flynn is supposed to face his long-delayed sentencing, follows Flynn’s shift to more confrontational defense lawyers about half a year ago and an ensuing, acrimonious showdown with prosecutors over the retired Army general’s planned testimony in a related case."


  • #8435
    bewareofthedog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 432 ✭✭bewareofthedog


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    he admitted he lied. people who haven't lied don't do that.

    Well that's not true now it is. If you had the option of taking a plea deal or facing serious litigation, defending against the US government which would run into the hundreds of thousands you could probably understand it.

    Technically he did lie, I don't believe it was purposeful deceit because all his phone calls were listened to by the FBI and he was cleared.

    The FBI were instructed to end their investigation into him, instead McCabe, Strzok et al tried to prosecute him under the Logan act, an act which nobody has been prosecuted under in 200 years.


  • #8436
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,924 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    bewareofthedog wrote: »
    Well that's not true now it is. If you had the option of taking a plea deal or facing serious litigation, defending against the US government which would run into the hundreds of thousands you could probably understand it.

    Technically he did lie, I don't believe it was purposeful deceit because all his phone calls were listened to by the FBI and he was cleared.

    The FBI were instructed to end their investigation into him, instead McCabe, Strzok et al tried to prosecute him under the Logan act, an act which nobody has been prosecuted under in 200 years.

    so he didn't lie he did something more serious but admitted to lying to get away with that?


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  • #8437
    bewareofthedog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 432 ✭✭bewareofthedog


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    so he didn't lie he did something more serious but admitted to lying to get away with that?

    I have no idea what you mean.

    This is what I believed happened...

    Flynn was calling Russian Ambassador during the transition, among others

    Report gets leaked in the press about it from a tip off from some intelligence agency guy, ( McCabe was caught leaking reports to the press
    around this time ) Also Russian conspiracy stuff in very hot at the time

    Flynn feeling under pressure misleads Pence and gets fired

    FBI conduct a review of all foreign calls made by Flynn and clear him of any wrongdoing

    Upper FBI heads ( this has been cited in hearings so it's not speculation ) order FBI to end investigation into Flynn

    Instead McCabe, Strzok and others decide to try and prosecute Flynn under the Logan act and catch him in sort of technicality or non purposeful deceit

    Anyway I won't convince anyone here who believes one way or the another, nor will they convince me. We can all have our own opinion about things.


  • #8438
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,924 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    bewareofthedog wrote: »
    I have no idea what you mean.

    This is what I believed happened...

    Flynn was calling Russian Ambassador during the transition, among others

    Report gets leaked in the press about it from a tip off from some intelligence agency guy, ( McCabe were caught leaking reports to the press
    around this time ) Also Russian conspiracy stuff in very hot at the time.

    Flynn feeling under pressure misleads Pence and gets fired

    FBI conduct a review of all foreign calls made by Flynn and clear him of any wrongdoing

    Upper FBI heads ( this has been cited in hearings so it's not speculation ) order FBI to end investigation into Flynn

    Instead McCabe, Strzok and others decide to try and prosecute Flynn under the Logan act and catch him in sort of technicality or non purposeful deceit

    Anyway I won't convince anyone here who believes one way or the another, nor will they convince me. We can all have our own opinion about things.

    nobody cares what you believe. Flynn admitted to lying. so either he did lie or he admitted to that to get off on a greater crime.


  • #8439
    bewareofthedog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 432 ✭✭bewareofthedog


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    nobody cares what you believe. Flynn admitted to lying. so either he did lie or he admitted to that to get off on a greater crime.

    I couldn't care less what you think either.

    Not everything is black and white, I don't believe Flynn purposely lied. I believe he was caught in a technicality and unfairly treated.

    If you believe that warrants prosecution of an individual then so be it. If he truly had something to hide then why attend with no lawyer?


  • #8440
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,924 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    bewareofthedog wrote: »
    I couldn't care less what you think either.

    Not everything is black and white, I don't believe Flynn purposely lied. I believe he was caught in a technicality and unfairly treated.

    If you believe that warrants prosecution of an individual then so be it. If he truly had something to hide then why attend with no lawyer?

    Boo Hoo. the poor man.


  • #8441
    cameramonkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,220 ✭✭✭cameramonkey


    Has Trump won the election yet? Or is he a loser?


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  • #8442
    dinorebel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,321 ✭✭✭dinorebel


    cameramonkey wrote: »
    Has Trump won the election yet? Or is he a loser?
    He's actually losing at losing.


  • #8443
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    Tony EH wrote: »
    Again, I'll make this point.

    A large portion of that 70 odd million DIDN'T vote for Trump. They voted for the Republican Party and it wouldn't have mattered who that party had used as their ticket, they would have voted for them anyway.

    There are millions of Americans who held their noses and put an X beside Trump's name simply because they have always voted Rep in elections. There are many who think he's an insufferable arsehole, but their primary concern is simply keeping a Democrat out of the Whitehouse.

    This is the reality of US politics and the Democrats are never going to win them over anyway.

    As for the die hard Trump cultists, they are a firm minority of the American voting public. MAGA hat wearing imbeciles who are incapable understanding the con that was perpetrated on them and who are more besotted by personality (even an abrasive one) than they are about actual policy.

    There may be a number of floating voters to poach, but I doubt that the Dems will put too much effort into trying to get them onside. But that depends on what the Republican Party do over the next 4 years and they have an uphill struggle, that's for sure. Trump may take a few million of the more idiotic Republican voters with him, if he decides to form his own Gibberish Party. So, as it stands at the moment, I think it's the Republicans who need to be thinking about winning back Trump voters and not the Democrats, who'll never appeal to them.

    A large portion of the 80 million didn't vote for Biden. They voted to get rid of Trump. Biden is unlikeable and bland


  • #8444
    campo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,367 ✭✭✭campo


    bewareofthedog wrote: »
    I couldn't care less what you think either.

    Not everything is black and white, I don't believe Flynn purposely lied. I believe he was caught in a technicality and unfairly treated.

    If you believe that warrants prosecution of an individual then so be it. If he truly had something to hide then why attend with no lawyer?

    This is not a personal dig but what is it about Trumpers and they thinking believing in something trumps actual facts of the matter.


  • #8445
    uncleoswald
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭uncleoswald


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    A large portion of the 80 million didn't vote for Biden. They voted to get rid of Trump. Biden is unlikeable and bland
    Huh? Likeability is probably Biden's main strength. He was one of the most popular vice-presidents ever and while I'm sure partisanship has eaten away at his likeability somewhat it remained important in this election and was a large part of why he was able to win back many of the states lost in 2016. https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/522830-the-secret-to-bidens-lead-people-find-him-likable

    Even Kayleigh McEnany agreed before she drank the MAGA Kool-Aid.
    "I think the Republicans run into a problem if it is Joe Biden and if it is maybe a Trump on the other side," McEnany said on local New York's AM970. "Because Joe Biden, one of the things he is remarkable at is really kind of being a man of the people and resonating with middle class voters. Feeling like -- coming off as human. His gaffes -- as much as we make fun of them -- to a certain extent they make him look human. So not, since he's likable."
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/26/politics/kayleigh-mcenany-biden-2015/index.html

    Dislike of Trump was a huge factor in this election, and I'm sure many would have preferred a different candidate to Biden, but the majority wouldn't have held their noses when voting for him either.


  • #8446
    Cody montana
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,584 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    A large portion of the 80 million didn't vote for Biden. They voted to get rid of Trump. Biden is unlikeable and bland

    And what's the problem?


  • #8447
    everlast75
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,048 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    Cody montana wrote: »
    And what's the problem?

    When Joe stands in front of the U.N., he won't be laughed at.

    Apparently, people prefer when the POTUS *is* laughed at

    Elect a clown... Expect a circus



  • #8448
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    uncleoswald wrote: »
    Huh? Likeability is probably Biden's main strength. He was one of the most popular vice-presidents ever and while I'm sure partisanship has eaten away at his likeability somewhat it remained important in this election and was a large part of why he was able to win back many of the states lost in 2016. https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/522830-the-secret-to-bidens-lead-people-find-him-likable

    Even Kayleigh McEnany agreed before she drank the MAGA Kool-Aid. https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/26/politics/kayleigh-mcenany-biden-2015/index.html

    Dislike of Trump was a huge factor in this election, and I'm sure many would have preferred a different candidate to Biden, but the majority wouldn't have held their noses when voting for him either.

    Dislike of Biden was a huge factor in this election. Those on the fence just disliked Trump more.
    It was basically a decision of who you disliked less.
    Roll on January


  • #8449
    Samsonsmasher
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 610 ✭✭✭Samsonsmasher


    briany wrote: »
    The thing is is that Rudy and the boys are great at talking smack in their extra-judicial press conferences and hearings, but when it actually goes to court it's just.... womp womp womp.

    And the obvious tactic is to de-emphasise the situations as much as possible where is actual jeopardy and consequences to what they're saying, and put on these shows for the usual propaganda outlets to run with. Nice.

    The legislatures can reject the elections in their states if they believe them to be fraudulent. The college votes can therefore be denied to Biden. If he doesn't reach 270 votes then under the 12th Amendment each state gets 1 vote. The majority of the states are Republican so Trump would win.


  • #8450
    Cody montana
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,584 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    everlast75 wrote: »
    When Joe stands in front of the U.N., he won't be laughed at.

    Apparently, people prefer when the POTUS *is* laughed at

    Or booed at during sports events.


  • #8451
    Cody montana
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,584 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    Samsonsmasher wrote: »
    The legislatures can reject the elections in their states if they believe them to be fraudulent. The college votes can therefore be denied to Biden. If he doesn't reach 270 votes then under the 12th Amendment each state gets 1 vote. The majority of the states are Republican so Trump would win.

    So you expect this case to win on friday?


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  • #8452
    Samsonsmasher
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 610 ✭✭✭Samsonsmasher


    Cody montana wrote: »
    So you expect this case to win on friday?

    Nothing has to be proven in court. The legislatures just have to decide they believe there was fraud. They can refuse to accept the validity of the national vote and toss it.


  • #8453
    nolivesmatter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 914 ✭✭✭nolivesmatter


    everlast75 wrote: »
    My logic is the dog in the street knows it's a crime to lie to the FBI.

    Flynn knew it was a crime.

    He did it anyway.

    Then he pled guilty to it.

    Then he pled guilty to it again.

    Whether the fact that lying to the FBI is a crime is fair or not is another discussion.

    He is a self confessed criminal.

    Accepting a pardon means he is accepting he is guilty for a 3rd time.

    The situation here is that he is lied for Trump and he is being rewarded.

    That means feck all, even if he's innocent he's taking the pardon.


  • #8454
    uncleoswald
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭uncleoswald


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    Dislike of Biden was a huge factor in this election. Those on the fence just disliked Trump more.
    It was basically a decision of who you disliked less.
    Roll on January
    You seem to be bringing a lot of your own feelings to this and maybe mixing up a lack of enthusiasm for un-likeability. Enthusiasm for Biden might not be very high because of his age and lack of real progressive ideas, but people like him because to them he seems like a decent, if sometimes muddled, granddad/uncle type figure.

    Where do you get the idea people actively dislike Biden?


  • #8455
    prinzeugen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,891 ✭✭✭prinzeugen


    Samsonsmasher wrote: »
    The legislatures can reject the elections in their states if they believe them to be fraudulent. The college votes can therefore be denied to Biden. If he doesn't reach 270 votes then under the 12th Amendment each state gets 1 vote. The majority of the states are Republican so Trump would win.
    They need proof however, something which is lacking.
    The Rudy show today was a joke.
    None of the testimony was under oath and penalty of perjury.
    It has as much value as evidence as a cheese cracker.
    The one state, one vote thing only applies when neither candidate gets 270.
    Trump has no chance.


  • #8456
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,719 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    A large portion of the 80 million didn't vote for Biden. They voted to get rid of Trump. Biden is unlikeable and bland

    He wiped the floor with Trump.

    Not bad for someone who's "unlikeable" and "bland".


  • #8457
    prinzeugen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,891 ✭✭✭prinzeugen


    Samsonsmasher wrote: »
    Nothing has to be proven in court. The legislatures just have to decide they believe there was fraud. They can refuse to accept the validity of the national vote and toss it.

    Nope.. That's just parler fan fiction.


  • #8458
    nolivesmatter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 914 ✭✭✭nolivesmatter


    uncleoswald wrote: »
    You seem to be bringing a lot of your own feelings to this and maybe mixing up a lack of enthusiasm for un-likeability. Enthusiasm for Biden might not be very high because of his age and lack of real progressive ideas, but people like him because to them he seems like a decent, if sometimes muddled, granddad/uncle type figure.

    Where do you get the idea people actively dislike Biden?

    The general sentiment I got from people before the election was that Biden's best attribute was that he's not Trump. Maybe that's not active dislike but I never got the sense he was actively liked either.


  • #8459
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,447 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Samsonsmasher wrote: »
    Nothing has to be proven in court. The legislatures just have to decide they believe there was fraud. They can refuse to accept the validity of the national vote and toss it.

    This is wrong. I think you've been reading too many incorrect tweets. The executive of the states i.e. the governors, sign and seal the certificates of appointment of the electoral college electors for that state who are appointed in accordance with the law. Now in theory the legislature of a state "could" send forward their own slate of electors as well. However if two sets of electors (one appointed by the governor in line with the law and the other from a rogue legislature) are appointed and send their votes to Congress to be counted, under the Electoral Count Act, where there is a dispute, it is the votes from the electors appointed by the governor that would be counted.


  • #8460
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,618 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    If what is claimed is true then it's a case of Democrats thinking they are doing what is right to remove Trump at any cost. Like they are doing a service to the US to magically come up with 800k ballots when needed to beat Trump.


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  • #8461
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,447 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    If what is claimed is true then it's a case of Democrats thinking they are doing what is right to remove Trump at any cost. Like they are doing a service to the US to magically come up with 800k ballots when needed to beat Trump.

    Counting votes is not magic. Don't be so gullible to swallow Rudy's nonsense. That man has absolutely zero credibility.


This discussion has been closed.
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