COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

Hmmzis · 25-11-2020 06:05PM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Depends on the vaccine. I don't believe Moderna is part of EU agreements although I'm open to be corrected on that.

Oxford AZ might be delayed, it seems to be a few weeks behind the others.

So its highly likely the Pfizer vaccine will be the first one available in Ireland probably starting in January. It sounds like there might be a degree of training required different to a normal vaccine. The last thing we need are batches ruined by poor temperature controls and also you need to mix it with other liquids as opposed to traditional vaccines. There's enough variables there to make you question whether the HSE are up to it and not screw it up as is their habit.

There is no mixing required for these vaccines as far as I'm aware of. Would you have a link to where it said that it needs mixing?

joseywhales · 25-11-2020 07:13PM

I am a bit concerned by the uptake, in light of reading this:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/23/covid-vaccine-cdc-should-warn-people-the-side-effects-from-shots-wont-be-walk-in-the-park-.html

The pfizer and presumably moderna vaccine will be taxing on the body for a day or two, hopefully not enough to put people off.

JTMan · 25-11-2020 07:16PM

FT reports on UK vaccination planning here (paywall):

- Vaccinations could begin on 1 December.
- NHS works to get the first vaccinations.
- BT and Virgin Media installing broadband on 47 vaccination sites.
- Sites include Cheltenham Racecourse, the showgrounds in Truro in Cornwall, St Helens rugby league stadium, a retail unit in Stratford’s Westfield shopping centre in east London and a crypt underneath Blackburn Cathedral.
- The UK government is also planning to open vaccination centres within days in community, health and conference centres and museums across the country.

odyssey06 · 25-11-2020 07:25PM

joseywhales wrote: »

I am a bit concerned by the uptake, in light of reading this:
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/23/covid-vaccine-cdc-should-warn-people-the-side-effects-from-shots-wont-be-walk-in-the-park-.html
The pfizer and presumably moderna vaccine will be taxing on the body for a day or two, hopefully not enough to put people off.

Might complicate rollout to frontline professionals though... would need to be staggered.

stephenjmcd · 25-11-2020 07:34PM

joseywhales wrote: »

I am a bit concerned by the uptake, in light of reading this:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/23/covid-vaccine-cdc-should-warn-people-the-side-effects-from-shots-wont-be-walk-in-the-park-.html

The pfizer and presumably moderna vaccine will be taxing on the body for a day or two, hopefully not enough to put people off.

So potentially the same things your warned about every time you get a vaccine. Nothing new there that wasn't already known.

In the Pfizer trial it was around 2&3% of participants had either a headache or fatigue, not huge numbers.

Sure even getting the flu vaccine a few weeks ago I was told keep some paracetamol nearby just incase of headache and you might feel a bit crap, same as every year.

ShineOn7 · 25-11-2020 08:41PM

JTMan wrote: »

FT reports on UK vaccination planning here (paywall):

- Vaccinations could begin on 1 December.
- NHS works to get the first vaccinations.
- BT and Virgin Media installing broadband on 47 vaccination sites.
- Sites include Cheltenham Racecourse, the showgrounds in Truro in Cornwall, St Helens rugby league stadium, a retail unit in Stratford’s Westfield shopping centre in east London and a crypt underneath Blackburn Cathedral.
- The UK government is also planning to open vaccination centres within days in community, health and conference centres and museums across the country.

That looks very well organised and planned so far

If Tony and that shambles of a gangster Paul Reid don't give us something similar tomorrow they'll be completely ignored by more and more of the population when they ask us to "keep the course there now"

manniot2 · 25-11-2020 08:44PM

ShineOn7 wrote: »

That looks very well organised and planned so far

If Tony and that shambles of a gangster Paul Reid don't give us something similar tomorrow they'll be completely ignored by more and more of the population when they ask us to "keep the course there now"

A relative worked for Reid years ago in eircom. “Wouldn’t manage a sh1t in a toilet” is how he put it.

ShineOn7 · 25-11-2020 08:46PM

joseywhales wrote: »

The pfizer and presumably moderna vaccine will be taxing on the body for a day or two, hopefully not enough to put people off.

Even a round of travel vaccines can knock you sideways for 48 hours, it's happened to me in the past with shots

Just watch the Anti Vax loons morph these very normal side effects into something out of a David Icke video though. They're almost literally brain dead

There's a year ahead of blocking/muting/un-friending more people on social media in the next 12 months than the last 10 years in total

timsey tiger · 25-11-2020 09:18PM

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Even a round of travel vaccines can knock you sideways for 48 hours, it's happened to me in the past with shots

Just watch the Anti Vax loons morph these very normal side effects into something out of a David Icke video though. They're almost literally brain dead

There's a year ahead of blocking/muting/un-friending more people on social media in the next 12 months than the last 10 years in total

The vaccine gave me covid I tell ya. :rolleyes:

D.Q · 25-11-2020 09:36PM

JTMan wrote: »

FT reports on UK vaccination planning here (paywall):

- Sites include Cheltenham Racecourse.

Back to the scene of the crime.

ShineOn7 · 25-11-2020 09:45PM

timsey tiger wrote: »

The vaccine gave me covid I tell ya. :rolleyes:

Lol, we'll definitely get a few of those

Polar101 · 25-11-2020 10:45PM

leahyl wrote: »

Is there going to be a longer wait in Ireland to get the vaccine? I don't understand why we haven't heard about a solid plan for vaccinating yet? I was really hopeful that we would be back to normality more or less by May at the latest.....you have the UK and the US saying how they'll have everyone vaccinated by April....but we haven't heard anything here....it's just worrying I really don't think I can do anymore than 3 or 4 months!!

It's going to be a bit longer, first a vaccine or vaccines need to be approved. After they know which vaccines can be used, then they can proceed with the vaccinations. It could still be by May, though - things look to be moving quite fast.

I wouldn't be looking to the UK or the US as an example on how to handle the pandemic. There's no point giving definite dates at this stage yet.

Voltex · 25-11-2020 10:50PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

So potentially the same things your warned about every time you get a vaccine. Nothing new there that wasn't already known.

In the Pfizer trial it was around 2&3% of participants had either a headache or fatigue, not huge numbers.

Sure even getting the flu vaccine a few weeks ago I was told keep some paracetamol nearby just incase of headache and you might feel a bit crap, same as every year.

Its funny....when we bring our kids to get their 6 in 1 or MMR we're forewarned to dose them up on Calpol, as they may feel unwell or run a slight temperature....and yet this doesnt even phase us!

Stark · 25-11-2020 10:53PM

I remember any vaccine I've gotten, I've always been told to hang around for 15 mins afterwards just in case of a reaction.

Symptoms like headache and fever are a standard part of the immune response, it just means the vaccine is working.

MadYaker · 25-11-2020 10:59PM

JTMan wrote: »

FT reports on UK vaccination planning here (paywall):

- Vaccinations could begin on 1 December.
- NHS works to get the first vaccinations.
- BT and Virgin Media installing broadband on 47 vaccination sites.
- Sites include Cheltenham Racecourse, the showgrounds in Truro in Cornwall, St Helens rugby league stadium, a retail unit in Stratford’s Westfield shopping centre in east London and a crypt underneath Blackburn Cathedral.
- The UK government is also planning to open vaccination centres within days in community, health and conference centres and museums across the country.

They’re pandemic response so far has been a shambles, particularly the test and trace system and I doubt the rollout of the vaccine will be any different. Looks great on paper though.

25-11-2020 11:38PM

MadYaker wrote: »

They’re pandemic response so far has been a shambles, particularly the test and trace system and I doubt the rollout of the vaccine will be any different. Looks great on paper though.

Seeing as we have zero information on anything the HSE has done, it is impossible to make a comparison.

mandrake04 · 26-11-2020 12:06AM

Aegir wrote: »

Seeing as we have zero information on anything the HSE has done, it is impossible to make a comparison.

Antigen tests have been available since June, they are not perfect but they do have useful applications and are used in some Euro-overlord countries yet still not approved nor rolled out in Ireland.

Do expect vaccines to be any different?

Charles Babbage · 26-11-2020 12:19AM

There seems to be some disquiet over the AstraZenica vaccine trials, especially the discovery that a half dose first works best, especially as this was not intended. The data they have published seems unclear, for instance whether the half dose people had the same age mix as those in the regular trial. So there could be delay in approval of this vaccine as more trials might be required.

The EU has ordered 140m shots of the Moderna virus, so that should suffice for about one sixth of the Irish population.

Stark · 26-11-2020 12:20AM

Oxford/Astrazenaca vaccine might not be looking so good after all:

After Admitting Mistake, AstraZeneca Faces Difficult Questions About Its Vaccine https://nyti.ms/2J7csOY

tobefrank321 · 26-11-2020 12:23AM

Hmmzis wrote: »

There is no mixing required for these vaccines as far as I'm aware of. Would you have a link to where it said that it needs mixing?

Sure.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-vaccines-how-do-the-moderna-and-pfizer-coronavirus-jab-candidates-compare-12134062

During shipment and storage, the Pfizer vaccine must be kept at around -70C (-100F) to maintain optimal efficacy and it also has to be mixed with another liquid before it can be administered.

Admittedly information is sketchy in this story but I do recall a mention in some news story about the vaccine not being as straightforward to administer as traditional ones.

stephenjmcd · 26-11-2020 12:40AM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Sure.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-vaccines-how-do-the-moderna-and-pfizer-coronavirus-jab-candidates-compare-12134062

Admittedly information is sketchy in this story but I do recall a mention in some news story about the vaccine not being as straightforward to administer as traditional ones.

Only seems to be sky carrying that from what I can see. Didn't and haven't seen any mention of it in anything released by Pfizer nor any other sources.

Likewise no mention that I can find of it being any more difficult to administer than a normal vaccine. Open to correction with a source but couldn't find anything there when I looked.

The main concern around Pfizer is the storage concerns that have been raised alright but they don't look to be as big an issue as might have been thought.

Deeper Blue · 26-11-2020 12:41AM

Stark wrote: »

Oxford/Astrazenaca vaccine might not be looking so good after all:

After Admitting Mistake, AstraZeneca Faces Difficult Questions About Its Vaccine https://nyti.ms/2J7csOY

From what I can see the only quote in that article is from a guy working for a bank?

nommm · 26-11-2020 12:55AM

https://www.wired.com/story/the-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-data-isnt-up-to-snuff/
Another good article here on the problems with the AstraZeneca announcement on Monday. Hopefully they can clear the issues raised up but at the moment it does look like a degree of cherrypicking has gone on with their data. Nowhere near as robust a study as Pfizer. They seem to have messed up their clinical trial design.

tobefrank321 · 26-11-2020 01:14AM

Stark wrote: »

Oxford/Astrazenaca vaccine might not be looking so good after all:

After Admitting Mistake, AstraZeneca Faces Difficult Questions About Its Vaccine https://nyti.ms/2J7csOY

Interesting article. The successful lower dose/higher dose combination was only tested on under 55s and so its efficacy for the elderly is unclear. They'd have to run a new trial for that.

The obvious takeaway is the AZ vaccine would be ideal for the non vulnerable general public, but there's really no information as yet to suggest high efficacy for the elderly.

Pfizer and Moderna vaccines for the elderly, AZ for the young, or something like that.

Polar101 · 26-11-2020 04:24AM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

The obvious takeaway is the AZ vaccine would be ideal for the non vulnerable general public, but there's really no information as yet to suggest high efficacy for the elderly.

Okay, but is there any information that suggest the opposite might be true, lower efficacy for the elderly/vulnerable people.

stephenjmcd · 26-11-2020 06:44AM

Polar101 wrote: »

Okay, but is there any information that suggest the opposite might be true, lower efficacy for the elderly/vulnerable people.

Its all ifs and buts, we (the public) see very limited data firstly, regulators will get everything before its made public.

Until they make a judgement its all speculation, we no idea whats in their submission nor does anyone writing an opinion piece

funnydoggy · 26-11-2020 10:01AM

Are the vaccine byyyyys meeting today?

hmmm · 26-11-2020 10:03AM

tobefrank321 wrote: »

The obvious takeaway is the AZ vaccine would be ideal for the non vulnerable general public, but there's really no information as yet to suggest high efficacy for the elderly.

Pfizer and Moderna vaccines for the elderly, AZ for the young, or something like that.

Yes. There's too much noise around AZ at the moment and the wood is being missed from the trees. Worst case scenario the trial was 70% effective with no severe Covid cases in the vaccinated group - those are still great results. Even better if they can move it up towards the 90% in time by running a bigger trial of the half/full dosing, but with the Moderna & Pfizer vaccines being redirected towards the highly vulnerable it should be good enough. We still have J&J and Novavax to come.

Irish Stones · 26-11-2020 10:09AM

JTMan wrote: »

FT reports on UK vaccination planning here (paywall):

- Vaccinations could begin on 1 December.

I wonder why the vaccination plans aren't starting the same day across Europe.
Over here the vaccinations should begin end of January, and it seems it will be mandatory to everyone.

Russman · 26-11-2020 10:14AM

Irish Stones wrote: »

I wonder why the vaccination plans aren't starting the same day across Europe.
Over here the vaccinations should begin end of January, and it seems it will be mandatory to everyone.

I though there's a document where the EU state that a vaccine will be available to all member states simultaneously. Its the only thing that makes sense if they want to avoid a free for all.

UK obviously free to do their own thing.

COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

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