Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII Read OP For Mod Warnings

JRant · 25-11-2020 12:14AM

Cork2021 wrote: »

Front page of the Echo looks like Killeen has giving zero covid to another UCC Professor

https://www.broadsheet.ie/2020/11/24/wednesdays-papers-59/

That would be a perfectly reasonable position to hold as long as you're willing to quit your job and join the other 20% on the scratcher.

FrStone · 25-11-2020 12:15AM

An Ri rua wrote: »

Perhaps he WAS having regard for them too. How does your solution reduce their risk of them getting Covid19? Definitely, open window talk is daft. But there are no solutions. Can't people not see that yet??

No he wasn't. Why do we keep hospitals warm? Vulnerable people should not be exposed to severe cold.

Covid is not the only risk. Our elderly are people! I'll say that again. Our elderly are people!

They need food, warmth, water, and company. We shouldn't isolate them. They can make their own decisions. I imagine most will not lock themselves away, they will act based on their own appetite for risk.

Fodla · 25-11-2020 12:17AM

john4321 wrote: »

Even though its not related to anything I asked about Ireland you seem to fall for headlines.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8981739/Matt-Hancock-claims-Tier-Three-restrictions-lockdown-werent-tough-enough.html

"Now Hancock wants mass-testing for the common COLD"

From a non daily mail source:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/24/matt-hancock-wants-to-use-nhs-testing-system-to-fight-flu-after-covid

"Matt Hancock wants to use NHS testing system to fight flu after Covid"

Back to what I asked why do you think Ireland will be in permanent lockdown and how long is permanent for you?

Flu or cold, the fact that he wants to mass test for the flu, which will mean case numbers, will mean that they'll continue to lockdown the country. The reason they've been locking down the country is because of case numbers. Why would they lock down because of COVID case numbers and not flu case numbers? I think it does relate to Ireland because what happens over there tends to happen in Ireland.

I think possibly until the end of 2022. Varadkar has said there'll be another lockdown in January. They clearly don't care about the economy considering they've destroyed it, so they won't be opening up to save the economy.

Fodla · 25-11-2020 12:18AM

patnor1011 wrote: »

I always wanted to ask what exactly does that mean?
I tried to google it but I do not think you talk about place in this instance.
"Shur is a location mentioned several times in the Hebrew Bible."
English is not my first language obviously and I always try to learn new stuff that is why I am asking.

It means 'sure'.

Micky 32 · 25-11-2020 12:23AM

Fodla wrote: »

Flu or cold, the fact that he wants to mass test for the flu, which will mean case numbers, will mean that they'll continue to lockdown the country. The reason they've been locking down the country is because of case numbers. Why would they lock down because of COVID case numbers and not flu case numbers? I think it does relate to Ireland because what happens over there tends to happen in Ireland.

.

You reckon there will be a big uptake for people going getting tested for a cold/flu if they thought they’d be locked up? Lol i suspect the ‘cases’ will be very low.
You’re in dreamland.

fin12 · 25-11-2020 12:23AM

patnor1011 wrote: »

Some are.
Some are not. I know few old couples who pretty much do not care about this virus. Plenty of friends and family visiting them daily. Folks are out and about shops, doing pretty much everything they did before. I have to say house visits definitely picked up as it seems without pubs, shops and restaurants their friends and family coming more often.

I’m talking about people in nursing homes, elderly living in their own homes have a lot more freedom to choose then people on the nursing homes.

Fodla · 25-11-2020 12:26AM

Micky 32 wrote: »

You reckon there will be a big uptake for people going getting tested for a cold/flu if they thought they’d be locked up? Lol i suspect the ‘cases’ will be very low.
You’re in dreamland.

Well, people continue to get tested for the present virus knowing the country will be locked down based on case numbers. Why would they not do the same for the flu?

25-11-2020 12:30AM

This country of ours really is so draconian in general. We are so far behind other countries in so many ways.

We’ve had the longest and strictest lockdown in all of Europe.

Today I read about a school in Carlow telling young girls to cover up so the male teachers don’t get too excited around them... I actually couldn’t believe what I was reading... in 2020.

Then we have our government trying to bury the Tuam scandal. Our CMO trying to bury the cervical scandal.

NPHET on a daily basis trying to cover up the current situation in nursing homes.

The country in general still hates talking about suicide. It’s generally referred to as a tragic death in the media without mentioning suicide.

I really hope that one day we’ll become a bit more progressive.

Micky 32 · 25-11-2020 12:31AM

Fodla wrote: »

Well, people continue to get tested for the present virus knowing the country will be locked down based on case numbers. Why would they not do the same for the flu?

The flu and colds has been around for years and not as risky as covid. Everyone has had it and most people don’t care about the flu. There’s no way i’d go and get tested for cold/flu.

fin12 · 25-11-2020 12:32AM

Deleted User wrote: »

This country of ours really is so draconian in general. We are so far behind other countries in so many ways.

We’ve had the longest and strictest lockdown in all of Europe.

Today I read about a school in Carlow telling young girls to cover up so the male teachers don’t get too excited around them... I actually couldn’t believe what I was reading... in 2020.

Then we have our government trying to bury the Tuam scandal. Our CMO trying to bury the cervical scandal.

NPHET on a daily basis trying to cover up the current situation in nursing homes.

The country in general still hates talking about suicide. It’s generally referred to as a tragic death in the media without mentioning suicide.

I really hope that one day we’ll become a bit more progressive.

At this stage it’s more backwards we are going.

An Ri rua · 25-11-2020 12:34AM

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

NewsFlash- Old people die of other things than just Covid 19 :rolleyes:

Have you ever spent much time in nursing homes?? You're talking cr*p. What kills the elderly, along with other groups like immuno-compromised, is lung issues. Pneumonia, flu, etc etc. Ask any GP! Winter, as a metaphor, is still the biggest killer.
I've seen old folk with serious cancer, too far gone to put them through therapy, so they live on and the cancer (which is a major killer) grows slowly as does all of their cells at this point. What gets them is disimprovement in lung function.
Please speak from a place of knowledge when you post about residential old folk or indeed housebound old folk or simply elderly people in general.
Seemingly healthy elderly people drop every winter within a few days from pneumonia. So quickly that, within hours on wards, seasoned nurses and consultants have missed it and are on the back foot in saving that person.
So respectfully to all the lockdown bashers and Covid deniers, stop talking sh1te. Talk to a GP about general winter concerns. What the hell do ye think the yearly flu vaccine is about?

Fodla · 25-11-2020 12:37AM

Micky 32 wrote: »

The flu and colds has been around for years and not as risky as covid. Everyone has had it and most people don’t care about the flu. There’s no way i’d go and get tested for cold/flu.

I'm not so sure. Most Irish people do as they're told. NPHET could easily manipulate people into believing that mass testing for the flu is "for your safety". And then RTÉ would push it, and there'd be the usual zero opposition in the media.

An Ri rua · 25-11-2020 12:38AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This country of ours really is so draconian in general. We are so far behind other countries in so many ways.

We’ve had the longest and strictest lockdown in all of Europe.

Today I read about a school in Carlow telling young girls to cover up so the male teachers don’t get too excited around them... I actually couldn’t believe what I was reading... in 2020.

Then we have our government trying to bury the Tuam scandal. Our CMO trying to bury the cervical scandal.

NPHET on a daily basis trying to cover up the current situation in nursing homes.

The country in general still hates talking about suicide. It’s generally referred to as a tragic death in the media without mentioning suicide.

I really hope that one day we’ll become a bit more progressive.

More progressive? We had the most Draconian anti-smoking laws across Europe at one stage also.... For the public good.
Progressive ... Draconian... What's your poison?

Ha Long Bay · 25-11-2020 12:39AM

Fodla wrote: »

Flu or cold, the fact that he wants to mass test for the flu, which will mean case numbers, will mean that they'll continue to lockdown the country. The reason they've been locking down the country is because of case numbers. Why would they lock down because of COVID case numbers and not flu case numbers? I think it does relate to Ireland because what happens over there tends to happen in Ireland.

I think possibly until the end of 2022. Varadkar has said there'll be another lockdown in January. They clearly don't care about the economy considering they've destroyed it, so they won't be opening up to save the economy.

You said you want to discuss but post in bad faith. A cold does not equal the Flu as I'm sure you are aware but like the Daily Mail creates a catchier headline.

Your question "Why would they lock down because of COVID case numbers and not flu case numbers?"

Fairly simple there is a Flu vaccine (Which might not always be completely effective it does not have the same impact on hospital resources as Covid)

On your end of 2022 date for end of lockdown (24 months) are you basing that on a comment by one TD saying there might be need for restrictions in January 2021?

Micky 32 · 25-11-2020 12:40AM

Fodla wrote: »

I'm not so sure. Most Irish people do as they're told. NPHET could easily manipulate people into believing that mass testing for the flu is "for your safety". And then RTÉ would push it, and there'd be the usual zero opposition in the media.

I highly doubt it, i certainly won’t be one of them anyway. Flu isn’t that contagious these days. I deal with the public in my work and it’s 10 years since i caught the flu and i don’t take the vaccine.

boggerman1 · 25-11-2020 12:41AM

Heckler wrote: »

When I read people mentioning the bring your own dinnerware and stick grandpa by the open window I seriously thought people were having a pisstake. To think a Professor said this and RTE published it truly shows the lunacy thats about.

I'll be hugging and eating with my 87 year old mother and family home from abroad. And she won't be sitting at any ****ing open window. Enough is enough with the same people rolled out everyday, Ryan, Staines, O'Niell. they must be loving their new found fame.

Loving the fame and I’m sure the appearance fees for the media stuff must be handy as well.remember earlier in the summer mcdonkey was suggesting everyone had to buy a dishwasher cause none of us were washing our cups sauscers etc right or otherwise buy new stuff every time someone called.
Unfortunately there are people still believing this **** hook,line and sinkers.

Fodla · 25-11-2020 12:45AM

john4321 wrote: »

You said you want to discuss but post in bad faith. A cold does not equal the Flu as I'm sure you are aware but like the Daily Mail creates a catchier headline.

Your question "Why would they lock down because of COVID case numbers and not flu case numbers?"

Fairly simple there is a Flu vaccine (Which might not always be completely effective it does not have the same impact on hospital resources as Covid)

On your end of 2022 date for end of lockdown (24 months) are you basing that on a comment by one TD saying there might be need for restrictions in January 2021?

I know they're not the same and thanks for sending me that article from the Guardian.

But even with a 95% vaccine Mr Fauci in the US is talking about masks and social distancing still being required. If they're not happy with a 95% vaccine then don't be surprised if they decide they're not happy with the flu vaccine, which is 50% effective, I believe. A dangerous precedence has been set with lockdowns. Lockdowns could be used for anything and everything. The flu, climate change, you name it.

I'm basing it on NEPHT, the celebrity experts who won't want to go back to anonymity quietly, and no talk of getting back to normal. There's also no political or media opposition in Ireland, so the government can do what it likes really.

An Ri rua · 25-11-2020 12:46AM

FrStone wrote: »

No he wasn't. Why do we keep hospitals warm? Vulnerable people should not be exposed to severe cold.

Covid is not the only risk. Our elderly are people! I'll say that again. Our elderly are people!

They need food, warmth, water, and company. We shouldn't isolate them. They can make their own decisions. I imagine most will not lock themselves away, they will act based on their own appetite for risk.

Of course they will act on their own volition. But the government must issue advice also.
Stop being so emotional and discuss the thing correctly. I take care of an older person 4 times a week and have slept over in nursing homes many times with relatives. We all need food,shelter etc. Many of the old people you see have endured worse cold than you can imagine in their earlier years. So that's a red herring. The doctor most certainly wasn't advising to freeze your relative.... They are simply trying to advise in the face of few options.
What will you be doing? You still haven't unveiled your grand plan.
Me, I'll be isolating myself from most others so that I can continue to look after my elderly relative and keep them active and out and about. Oh, and she's tougher re cold than all the softboys here. I grew up in a house with open fireplaces in the bedrooms and ice inside the windows in winter. That does not kill you. My granny was 97 living in a solid fuel house that went cold overnight. That didn't kill her (she lived 6 more years, in heat...). Fresh air is not freezing extreme air. Most old folk air their houses as they know the importance. It's the generation of soft sh1tes now who value heat over fresh air. Not meant at you. Just overall, we've gone soft compared to previous generations. Cold does not cause colds (scientific fact).

Rrrrrr2 · 25-11-2020 12:53AM

An Ri rua wrote: »

Have you ever spent much time in nursing homes?? You're talking cr*p. What kills the elderly, along with other groups like immuno-conpromised, is lung issues. Pneumonia, flu, etc etc. Ask any GP! Winter, as a metaphor, is still the biggest killer.
I've seen old folk with serious cancer, too far gone to put them through therapy, so they live on and the cancer (which is a major killer) grows slowly as does all of their cells at this point. What gets them is disimprovement in lung function.
Please speak from a place of knowledge when you post about residential old folk or indeed housebound old folk or simply elderly people in general.
Seemingly healthy elderly people drop every winter within a few days from pneumonia. So quickly that, within hours on wards, seasoned nurses and consultants have missed it and are on the back foot in saving that person.
So respectfully to all the lockdown bashers and Covid deniers, stop talking sh1te. Talk to a GP about general winter concerns. What the hell do ye think the yearly flu vaccine is about?

Old people die in nursing homes. Often of respiratory issues. Gosh I never would have guessed. I assumed they all came hone and back to live normal lives in the land of Tir an Nog

Rrrrrr2 · 25-11-2020 12:58AM

An Ri rua wrote: »

Of course they will act on their own volition. But the government must issue advice also.
Stop being so emotional and discuss the thing correctly. I take care of an older person 4 times a week and have slept over in nursing homes many times with relatives. We all need food,shelter etc. Many of the old people you see have endured worse cold than you can imagine in their earlier years. So that's a red herring. The doctor most certainly wasn't advising to freeze your relative.... They are simply trying to advise in the face of few options.
What will you be doing? You still haven't unveiled your grand plan.
Me, I'll be isolating myself from most others so that I can continue to look after my elderly relative and keep them active and out and about. Oh, and she's tougher re cold than all the softboys here. I grew up in a house with open fireplaces in the bedrooms and ice inside the windows in winter. That does not kill you. My granny was 97 living in a solid fuel house that went cold overnight. That didn't kill her (she lived 6 more years, in heat...). Fresh air is not freezing extreme air. Most old folk air their houses as they know the importance. It's the generation of soft sh1tes now who value heat over fresh air. Not meant at you. Just overall, we've gone soft compared to previous generations. Cold does not cause colds (scientific fact).

“Stop being so emotional”...- After lengthy diatribes on nursing homes, Covid “deniers” and “lockdown bashers”.
Surely “granny killers” could be thrown in somewhere too?
I agree some are gone too soft- people like yourself just can’t seem to accept virus abd related illness as perfectly natural cycle of life and death. You’d imagine a self proclaimed nursing home expert like yourself would have long since rationalised all that

An Ri rua · 25-11-2020 01:01AM

patnor1011 wrote: »

I always wanted to ask what exactly does that mean?
I tried to google it but I do not think you talk about place in this instance.
"Shur is a location mentioned several times in the Hebrew Bible."
English is not my first language obviously and I always try to learn new stuff that is why I am asking.

It's a phrase used by the Irish Gentiles mostly, wesht of the Shannon.

An Ri rua · 25-11-2020 01:03AM

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

“Stop being so emotional”...- After lengthy diatribes on nursing homes, Covid “deniers” and “lockdown bashers”.
Surely “granny killers” could be thrown in somewhere too?
I agree some are gone too soft- people like yourself just can’t seem to accept virus abd related illness as perfectly natural cycle of life and death. You’d imagine a self proclaimed nursing home expert like yourself would have long since rationalised all that

Rational? Are you saying that every elderly person admitted into hospital for suspected pneumonia every winter should be just left to the natural cycle? Sure don't even call the ambulance at all?
Yes, I've a lot of experience of nursing homes. Feel free to ask and learn. We can do a knowledge swap. I can glean lots of info from a virologist like your good self...

Ha Long Bay · 25-11-2020 01:06AM

Fodla wrote: »

I know they're not the same and thanks for sending me that article from the Guardian.

But even with a 95% vaccine Mr Fauci in the US is talking about masks and social distancing still being required. If they're not happy with a 95% vaccine then don't be surprised if they decide they're not happy with the flu vaccine, which is 50% effective, I believe. A dangerous precedence has been set with lockdowns. Lockdowns could be used for anything and everything. The flu, climate change, you name it.

I'm basing it on NEPHT, the celebrity experts who won't want to go back to anonymity quietly, and no talk of getting back to normal. There's also no political or media opposition in Ireland, so the government can do what it likes really.

We are really getting around the world here on the topic initially started by yourself talking about Irelands endless lockdown.

I'm guessing this is what you are referencing about Dr fauci?

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/16/fauci-why-still-need-masks-social-distancing-after-covid-19-vaccine.html

Reading his comments I can't see anything incorrect in what he said it all seems like practical advice. Can't see anything about lockdowns for Flu or climate change.

On this "I'm basing it on NEPHT NPHET, the celebrity experts" would you be able to name more than 3 or 4 members without using Google?

An Ri rua · 25-11-2020 01:09AM

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Old people die in nursing homes. Often of respiratory issues. Gosh I never would have guessed. I assumed they all came hone and back to live normal lives in the land of Tir an Nog

At least you're learning something tonight. That's a start.

Fodla · 25-11-2020 01:14AM

john4321 wrote: »

We are really getting around the world here on the topic initially started by yourself talking about Irelands endless lockdown.

I'm guessing this is what you are referencing about Dr fauci?

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/16/fauci-why-still-need-masks-social-distancing-after-covid-19-vaccine.html

Reading his comments I can't see anything incorrect in what he said it all seems like practical advice. Can't see anything about lockdowns for Flu or climate change.

On this "I'm basing it on NEPHT NPHET, the celebrity experts" would you be able to name more than 3 or 4 members without using Google?

But I'm looking at it from a global perspective since this thing is global.

Do you think it's unreasonable for a person to suggest that Ireland may be in perpetual lockdown? What in the past 8 months gives you confidence that it won't be? Or if not a full lockdown then a perpetual level 3 lockdown.

For how long does he expect people to live abnormal lives for?

3 or 4 members of NPHET or three or four of the celebrity experts?

SusieBlue · 25-11-2020 01:17AM

Any person of sound mind, regardless of their age, does not need to be saved from themselves.
They should be able to assess the risk and make their own decisions on what they’re comfortable with.
It’s so patronising & belittling to assume to decide that we know what’s best for them. Elderly people should not lose that privilege just because of their advanced age. Most are more than capable of making their own minds up on what level of risk they find acceptable, and don’t need to be treated like imbeciles.

If they struggle with loneliness and isolation, forcing them into a life of solitude ‘for their own good’ is a cruelty and could cause them to die prematurely too.
It isn’t in the best interests of their physical or mental health.
And that’s exactly what we’re doing to people right now. Elderly people have separated from their loved ones for the best part of a year and are deteriorating by the day, but we’re telling them to put up or shut up because it’s for their own good, and we know what’s best for them.

Lots of things kill the elderly, not just covid. Unfortunately the reality is that advanced age means even a mild illness can be a death sentence, this is a fact of life.
Prior to March we didn’t forcibly remove them from society and isolate them from their friends and family to ‘protect’ them and we shouldn’t be doing it now either.

I’ve been saying it for months now but covid isn’t the only thing or even the worst thing that can happen to a person.
They don’t need to be saved by virtue signalling do gooders who don’t give two sh*ts about their quality of life or their wishes, and only care about ‘saving lives’ from covid.

Ha Long Bay · 25-11-2020 01:21AM

Fodla wrote: »

But I'm looking at it from a global perspective since this thing is global.

Do you think it's unreasonable for a person to suggest that Ireland may be in perpetual lockdown? What in the past 8 months gives you confidence that it won't be? Or if not a full lockdown then a perpetual level 3 lockdown.

For how long does he expect people to live abnormal lives for?

3 or 4 members of NPHET or three or four of the celebrity experts?

Yes I think it's unreasonable for someone to suggest Ireland will be in a perpetual lockdown.

What's gives me confidence it wont be is there are multiple vaccines that have passed phase 3 trials and will hopefully be approved soon once the go through the regulatory process.

"For how long does he expect people to live abnormal lives for?" Who is he?

Fodla · 25-11-2020 01:23AM

SusieBlue wrote: »

Any person of sound mind, regardless of their age, does not need to be saved from themselves.
They should be able to assess the risk and make their own decisions on what they’re comfortable with.
It’s so patronising & belittling to assume to decide that we know what’s best for them. Elderly people should not lose that privilege just because of their advanced age. Most are more than capable of making their own minds up on what level of risk they find acceptable, and don’t need to be treated like imbeciles.

If they struggle with loneliness and isolation, forcing them into a life of solitude ‘for their own good’ is a cruelty and could cause them to die prematurely too.
It isn’t in the best interests of their physical or mental health.
And that’s exactly what we’re doing to people right now. Elderly people have separated from their loved ones for the best part of a year and are deteriorating by the day, but we’re telling them to put up or shut up because it’s for their own good, and we know what’s best for them.

Lots of things kill the elderly, not just covid. Unfortunately the reality is that advanced age means even a mild illness can be a death sentence, this is a fact of life.
Prior to March we didn’t forcibly remove them from society and isolate them from their friends and family to ‘protect’ them and we shouldn’t be doing it now either.

I’ve been saying it for months now but covid isn’t the only thing or even the worst thing that can happen to a person.
They don’t need to be saved by virtue signalling do gooders who don’t give two sh*ts about their quality of life or their wishes, and only care about ‘saving lives’ from covid.

I agree 100%, but what I don't understand is why so many elderly people have submitted to Tony's tyranny. Why have they abandoned all of the wisdom they have to isolate themselves from their family, their loved ones, their friends? Why do they watch rubbish on RTÉ every day which causes them to be, based on what I see, afraid of their own shadow? It's bizarre.

Fodla · 25-11-2020 01:25AM

john4321 wrote: »

Yes I think it's unreasonable for someone to suggest Ireland will be in a perpetual lockdown.

What's gives me confidence it wont be is there are multiple vaccines that have passed phase 3 trials and will hopefully be approved soon once the go through the regulatory process.

"For how long does he expect people to live abnormal lives for?" Who is he?

He is Fauci.

But NPHET have said nothing about going back to normal. They call the shots. That's why I have very little confidence that Ireland won't be in perpetual lockdown.

Ha Long Bay · 25-11-2020 01:33AM

Fodla wrote: »

He is Fauci.

But NPHET have said nothing about going back to normal. They call the shots. That's why I have very little confidence that Ireland won't be in perpetual lockdown.

Dr Fauci was quoted in the article I linked saying towards the end of 2021 which seems practical due to the population size of the US.

Your posting about NPHET is not factual its a committee setup to provide public health guidance to Government they dont "call the shots".

What agenda do you think they have and to what benefit?

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII Read OP For Mod Warnings