Mart Price Tracker

Why 104 tanko? must be 4 extra for luck.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

On the way to my farm every day I pass a front of the road place. This lad finishes 30+ good Continental type cattle. For the last ten years you would see the weanlings arrive in the last month or six weeks, light 250-300kg weanlings. I was surprised 2 weeks ago to see a load of continental bullocks 500 kgs type with the mart stickers on there backs.

At some stage the economics change for everyone. Assumption is the mother in law of all cock ups

Sold 2 calves at home to a lad 950, he showed me dockets from same day at the mart 1300 avg and sold better cattle for 1400 the week before, they'll be big cattle next year, I wouldnt sya hes losing hand over fist

charolais0153 wrote: »

Sold 2 calves at home to a lad 950, he showed me dockets from same day at the mart 1300 avg and sold better cattle for 1400 the week before, they'll be big cattle next year, I wouldnt sya hes losing hand over fist

There's no big twist in them when you are keeping them for 12 months. You'd put 200 into them for the first winter to do them half right and summer them again after that. I wouldn't be too excited about it anyway.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I wouldn't agree with that. I more say it takes a great weanling to make much above 900 euro. You only have only look at the economics at present beef prices. At 3.6/kg of a base price no Suckler bred cattle are economical. An animal grading U= as opposed to R+ is not going to make a significant difference to profitability even taking better weight gain into account.

With the bull game now virtually history the idea that any Suckler weanling is worth above 2.5/kg is delusional........

Out of interest, what base price would be a break even price to make bull beef a runner again?
Would €4.00 do it?

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I wouldn't agree with that. I more say it takes a great weanling to make much above 900 euro. You only have only look at the economics at present beef prices. At 3.6/kg of a base price no Suckler bred cattle are economical. An animal grading U= as opposed to R+ is not going to make a significant difference to profitability even taking better weight gain into account.

With the bull game now virtually history the idea that any Suckler weanling is worth above 2.5/kg is delusional. Consumer demand now requires cattle slaughter below 360kgs mainly and better grading cattle should be slaughtered at lower weight to achieve steak sizes ideally. This gives a maximum carcass value of 1.5-1.6k. How can you square that with a 1k weanling....averaging across heifers and bulls. TBH the 7-800 euro weanling looks too expensive as well.

Having said all that you really have to question some of the costs involved. IMO you should be able to keep a suckler cow for in or around 400euro. When you costs start to go above 500/cow you have to look at what you are doing

I can understand on poorer quality land where there are fewer options and longer winters you still have to look at management of the system. I think that for these farmers that the grass fed beef and traditional breeds maybe be an option long-term. AFAIK this has a 36 month age limit. It's quite possible that on these cattle QA may be paid up to this age limit. Using a dairy cross Lmx cow bred to AA or HE. It will a depend on the bonus for grass fed beef. But ideally you need a grass fed bonus if 30-60c/kg depending on time of year

Costs based on 40 cows off the top of my head and a 4 month winter
€150 silage
€50 for vet and dosing
€30 for straw (2 bales at €15 each for life backs and calving pens)
€30 for contractor (slurry, fym)
€30 for insurance
€40 for fertiliser for grassland
Meal for weanlings/ calves €70

That is €410 on a short winter with no meal for the cow, which imo she shouldn't get. I have included no cost for machinery depreciation, repairs, payments, maintenance, fencing, reseeding, lime, no hedgecutting in that contractors bill.
A suckler cow cannot be kept sub €400.

Guessing it is a typo and he meant Springers.

tanko wrote: »

A lad beside me buys a hundred and four yearling FR store bullocks every year.
Two of the lads bullocks die every week so the lad never gets to sell any and the lad loses loads of money every year.
Some lads are just useless.

But the flip side of that is that if he buys 104 cattle every year and every one of them die then it’s probably time to consider changing his system a bit!!!!!!

Dunedin wrote: »

I will always question the costs of suckler cows.

€2000 for vet and dosing. I’m sorry but if anyone is paying that amount out , then they have a very rich vet.
€6000 for silage for 40 cows - maybe if you are really horsing it in to them but in reality with dryer silage and not fully ad lib it could be less.
€1200 for straw which equates to 80 bales. No way would in the world would you need 80 bales of straw for 40 cows
€70 for weanling meal is a cost to the weanlings and not the cow.

Last point on this , unless we have figures show costs of each system i.e. calf to beef, stores, finisher etc. on a like by like basis, then it’s pointless talking about cost of suckler cow.

Your figures above mention insurance and you also allude to machinery dep, repairs, fencing, hedge cutting, etc. - if you are keeping pet lambs then these costs will still apply.

When Bass is throwing out the figures of weanling purchase, he includes mart fees, transport, dose, etc. But there is no mention of hedge cutting, insurance, machinery depreciation, repairs, etc. Not saying that’s wrong but why does everyone always include in cost of the suckler. Not saying these costs don’t apply but they should be included in every system and that would afford a more rounded view.

Reality is that such costs are farming cost of production.

I never put any cost on the weanling. It all goes on the suckler. I then divide all costs by the number of sucklers to get a figure to keep her.
I add up all weanling sales and divide by the number of cows to get an average output per cow. Subtract one from the other to get profit (or loss) per cow. No grey area.

Your last sentence calls them costs of production. The cow is the unit of production so all costs are on her head.

On the veterinary bill.
40 cows, 40 weanlings and a stock bull is 81 head. The herd test is €4.20 per head iirc inc VAT. That is €340 of the €1200 for that alone. I bolus cows for minerals. €6 per head is another €240. Vaccination of Autumn born calves going into the shed for pneumonia and a blackleg vaccine added on brings it well over €700. Then a call out or two plus a few bottles here and there over the year won't be long making another €450-500.

I only sell weanlings so dont need to split my costs any further.

The comment about fencing etc applying even if it was only pet lambs, I don't have pet lambs and up until this year I only had sucklers so the cost only applies to sucklers. If I didn't have them the costs would not have applied so the suckler must take responsibility for them. Who else will?

At the moment I am feeding my sucklers 42 DM silage. There are 38 of them in a shed and they are dealing with 2 bales per day. A 4 month winter is circa 120 days. 240 bales. Multiply by €25 is €6000. Divide by 40 cows is €150. My autumn born calves are eating some of this silage as is my stock bull, but again, no cows and they dont exist here.

I buy 80 bales every year of straw. Some years I use it, some years I sell some again in spring. I bed calves really well and get almost no scouts etc and I put it down to the bedding. Maybe it's an extravagance.

On the machinery, my tractor was €22,000 12 years ago. Add nothing else and that's €1800 per year so €45 per cow. It didn't fall out of the sky. It is probably still worth that but if I let it go I must replace it. I burn 2000 litres of diesel a year. Again this year that is €900. €22.50 per cow.

Instead of asking why I am including those costs I think you should ask why are lads not including them? Is it to convince themselves that they are profitable?

Essentially I am agreeing with Bass. He says that sucklers can only be profitable sub €400 per year keep. I am saying they cannot be kept at that price point, ergo hart cannot be profitable.

Grueller wrote: »

Costs based on 40 cows off the top of my head and a 4 month winter
€150 silage
€50 for vet and dosing
€30 for straw (2 bales at €15 each for life backs and calving pens)
€30 for contractor (slurry, fym)
€30 for insurance
€40 for fertiliser for grassland
Meal for weanlings/ calves €70

That is €410 on a short winter with no meal for the cow, which imo she shouldn't get. I have included no cost for machinery depreciation, repairs, payments, maintenance, fencing, reseeding, lime, no hedgecutting in that contractors bill.
A suckler cow cannot be kept sub €400.

It's even worse than that.
You've included no labour cost for yourself.
You've included no land cost.
You've also included no shed cost
Not to mind a cost for family labour etc.

Some people don't want to accept the reality of how poor the returns are in beef.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Well if FR stores die on him he not want to be buying anything else. If he cannot keep Fr stores alive he would not want to be buying Contenintal calves they die walking out of the ring in him

He doesn't exist and the cattle never existed either. You don't understand what sarcasm is do you. It's like talking to Sheldon Cooper.

Dunedin wrote: »

I am not unnecessarily disagreeing with some of your post but my point is that a lot of the costs you have outlined will apply similarly to a dry stock farm such as fencing, insurance, herd test, machinery etc.

All I’m asking is that how is that when we talk sucklers we always hear of how much it costs to keep them but when we talk of store cattle it’s just the cost price with some direct cost. I’ve never heard anyone add in the price of hedge cutting or insurance to a store bullock but they absolutely should.

Don’t think I’m blind to future of beef cos I’m not but would like to see the like for like costs that’s all.

I don't keep stores Dunedin is my short answer to that. Like I said I only had weanlings til this year so all costs went on the sucklers that produced them.
If I had stores they would have to shoulder their share of the burden too.