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Covid 19 Part XXVIII- 71,942 ROI(2,050 deaths) 51,824 NI (983 deaths) (28/11) Read OP

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  • Options
    #6362
    Gentleman Off The Pitch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 603 ✭✭✭Gentleman Off The Pitch


    Peter Flynt wrote: »
    Listening to music would be classed as enjoyment by the bald creeps and so is banned.

    Not only are they creeps, but they let their hair fall out too!


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    #6363
    AltGrp0
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭AltGrp0


    The PCR tests can be set to different sensitivity levels. The WHO recommended a level of 45 amplification cycles which is resulting in people testing positive up to 45 days after they have cleared an infection. I don't know what level the Irish tests are set at. More transparency is needed from NPHET on key points like this.


  • Options
    #6364
    xabi
    Registered Users Posts: 2,996 ✭✭✭xabi


    Away With The Fairies wrote: »
    Does anyone shop in Tesco regularly? Do they still sell CDs?

    I think so, but probably closed off due to not being essential.


  • Options
    #6365
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users Posts: 15,199 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    JTMan wrote: »
    Independent reports here (paywall):

    - Phase 5 will not be extended beyond 1 December.
    - Different "grades of Phase 3" will occur depending on cases.
    - Travel restrictions will be lifted around Christmas week.
    - Just 1 main gathering allowed for Christmas.
    - No decision yet on wet pubs, and indoor/outdoor dining.

    Hence, seems that we are going to Phase 3 on 1 December but just with the low hanging fruit of Phase 3 included. Gyms and non-essential retail allowed open on 1 December would be my guess with dining only included if case numbers decline.

    Read the article and it doesn't contain any surprises.

    The examiner reporting senior ministers do want hosptiality open.

    However essentially once L3 comes in the travel restrictions are as good as done.


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    #6366
    Thierry12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Thierry12


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    And that was before HSE " allowed " staff to wear PPE caring for " non Covid " patients .
    Majority of HCWs infected then with asymptomatic spread .
    This has been discussed and posted many times , months ago , but some people don't read the posts .
    Like you obviously didn't ..or maybe you just didn't understand it ?

    Another own goal from you !

    You're almost stalking me at this stage lol

    How am I to know someone posted that link months ago?

    Can you do something useful? Perhaps post a modern link to see how our healthcare professionals like yourself are doing now?


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    #6367
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    AltGrp0 wrote: »
    Indeed, sure didn't Michael Ryan of the WHO announce on the 5th October that 10% of the world have already had covid19, by their own data. That makes the infection fatality rate around the same as the flu, roughly 0.15% There was a spike in deaths in March /April ( when we were all in "lockdown" !) mostly due to flawed policies in nursing homes; but there is no excess mortality for the year all told. We need to stop with all the hysteria now and get on with things.

    We are back to its just a flu. Alt ****e Lol


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    #6368
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    I see on the covid dashboard that there had been 11519 healthcare cases. This is approx one in six of total cases.

    Does anyone have a chart showing this figure over time perhaps compared with total cases throughout the country.

    I know on the beginning almost one in four cases were health care workers. So the proportion of total cases seems to have fallen.


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    #6369
    normanoffside
    Registered Users Posts: 9,929 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    I see on the covid dashboard that there had been 11519 healthcare cases. This is approx one in six of total cases.

    Does anyone have a chart showing this figure over time perhaps compared with total cases throughout the country.

    I know on the beginning almost one in four cases were health care workers. So the proportion of total cases seems to have fallen.

    It has been 20% of all cases for the past week or so.

    We have had almost 70k confirmed infections so it’s about 1/6 of all cases overall.


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    #6370
    mandrake04
    Registered Users Posts: 4,435 ✭✭✭mandrake04


    AltGrp0 wrote: »
    The PCR tests can be set to different sensitivity levels. The WHO recommended a level of 45 amplification cycles which is resulting in people testing positive up to 45 days after they have cleared an infection. I don't know what level the Irish tests are set at. More transparency is needed from NPHET on key points like this.

    The 45 cycles is dependent on platform, some platforms are 40 and its manufacturers recommendations rather than WHO that determine this.


    However there's a feature called CCO (Cycle cut off), these are being used and they are no where near 40/45.

    without giving too much away I explain here.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115152557&postcount=185


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    #6371
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users Posts: 8,810 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    Arghus wrote: »
    Vaccines are still months and months away. It's great that they are a realistic prospect on the horizon, but the public health advice and the risks are not going to change until then. We still have Winter to get through, at the very least.

    Months ??

    DECADES even .... sure jaysus ...


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    #6372
    Cork2021
    Registered Users Posts: 2,261 ✭✭✭Cork2021


    Hector Savage wrote: »
    Months ??

    DECADES even .... sure jaysus ...

    We’ll be wearing masks next November and there’ll be no sport on tv as all professional sports will have gone bust! Sure as long as the hospitals are okay fûck the rest of us!


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    #6373
    paw patrol
    Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭paw patrol


    AltGrp0 wrote: »
    The PCR tests can be set to different sensitivity levels. The WHO recommended a level of 45 amplification cycles which is resulting in people testing positive up to 45 days after they have cleared an infection. I don't know what level the Irish tests are set at. More transparency is needed from NPHET on key points like this.


    I posted on this before - in Oct


    overly sensitive tests are NOT a good thing



    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=114911257&postcount=1277


    I was reading that the PCR tests are amplified to levels of x40 to x45.
    This came from a freedom of information from the dept of health.

    This means the tests are super sensitive by a massive factor -it's not 15 times more...it's way more.
    normally I'm told tests for other things are amplified 25-30 times.
    this means that it picks up tiny amounts or the virus , even if it isn't at a significant level. This ties in with the people who are positive but not sick.

    also causes a bigger risk in background interference and errors which tie in with the false positives we see and detecting fragments from people who had it in the past but have recovered.

    Normally I wouldn't give a fcuk tbh , but public policy is now damaging my life in a significant way based on (what I can see ) poor / guesswork science.

    I'm open to correction of course. in fact i'd love somebody to correct me.


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    #6374
    Russman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,849 ✭✭✭Russman


    What Username Guidelines wrote: »
    I think this is certainly a factor. I’m fed up with it, everyone is fed up with it, but we have to trundle on. Being tired and fed up amplifies the banging of the same drum every day since March of “redouble”, “increasing concern”, and “crucial fortnights”. I’m sure NPHET themselves are sick of saying it week in, week out.

    I do think constructive criticism and accountability is important, so discussing their advice makes sense. I think plenty of their decisions have been incorrect IMO, but far more have been correct. Not fully opening during the summer probably caused pain, but look where we are now relative to Europe.

    But I do find it slightly funny to see people lose their minds and genuinely believe NPHET are having the craic being on tv and locking up the country. It’s the same crew that brand others as too scared to leave their houses, absolutely falling apart when they don’t hear what they want to.

    And the same will just say “nursing homes” (handled terribly in my opinion) to rubbish the entire body of work done by NPHET to date.

    It’s all sh*t, but it’s just life right now unfortunately. The best we can hope for is a smooth exit with vaccines and hopefully we’ve got a stronger sense of resilience when we get out the other side.
    Danonino. wrote: »
    A hoax to what end? This is what confuses me. What do the gubberment have to gain by placing restrictions on the public? I’ve yet to hear any convincing reason to impose the restrictions outside of to suppress the spread and impact of a virus.

    The ‘it’s only as bad as influenza’ argument was outdated months ago. It’s not a flu, the reactions made by governments the world over make that obvious. Heck it was obvious watching Chinas response back in feb. Statistically the virus is non threatening to a large age group, statistically. What I mean is, just because one might get Covid and show no symptoms or brush it off doesn’t mean the chance of severe or fatal complications is null, or that spreading it to others won’t result in others dead, not sniffling with lemsips and taking a few days off work, dead, g’luck, slater.

    Ignoring that and just focusing on the very real (especially with our health system) potential clusterfurk that could result from hospitals reaching capacity and the resulting nightmare that would entail. When was the last time anyone ever heard of hospitals having to administer oxygen in car parks, or ventilator numbers not meeting demand and resulting in excess deaths. It’s strange times. But all this has all been repeated ad naseum.

    I think attitudes change drastically when you know someone that suffered from Covid and died from it. As sad as that is.

    Personally I like to think that my inability to visit family, travel or socialize doesn’t make my life so miserable or controlled to not be valuable and enjoyable. The virus being global, with every country will have economic repercussions gives me some peace of mind.

    Do I believe the virus is non-deadly to my age group? Statistically yes, I’m golden, no underlying conditions and not in any risk group. Does this make me resent the lockdowns and restrictions? No. I can put my needs aside in the hope that someone else doesn’t suffer.


    WHAT I AM TERRIFIED off is the fact that when faced with a global pandemic, a very real novel virus. Something not easily diluted down to an us vs them with a villain/group to loathe and a hero to rally behind. Where the greatest offence and defense is to limit interactions and stay at home. A huge amount to the public just can’t accept changes or at worst put their life on hold temporarily. It took mere weeks before we had people marching and protesting, cries of a mental health catastrophe, government conspiracy and draconian life altering measures. I had a colleague who’s greatest concerns (I **** you not) was not being able to travel abroad on his second sun holiday this year, deferring plans on buying a new Audi and that wearing a mask made his nose sweat. Meanwhile I was reading about India’s first lockdown and trying to gain perspective.


    The reason I’m terrified is now we know the reaction and ability a large chunk of people will have if there is a novel virus THAT IS life threatening. Let’s say a new virus with a ... we’ll say 40% death rate. I wish I could say people would react differently, but honestly. I don’t think they would. That’s scary. It’s terrifying to know that people can’t even write off a year in order to save someone multiple. The fact that everything I’ve spewed here will do nothing to change the opinions of someone who feels strongly against the restrictions and actions taken is also not lost on me.

    Not aimed directly at the OP just an early morning coffee rant. Apologies for what is probably an over long and grammer landfill post.

    EDIT: chopped out the personal waffle

    So much logic and sense, probably the best two posts on the thread.


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    #6375
    Benimar
    Registered Users Posts: 7,778 ✭✭✭Benimar


    Hector Savage wrote: »
    Months ??

    DECADES even .... sure jaysus ...

    Yes, months.

    What, you think 60-70% of the country will be vaccinated by Christmas or something?

    There is light at the end of the tunnel but anyone who thinks 'normality' will be here on New Years Day 2021(which is nearly two MONTHS away) is living in cloud cuckoo land.


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    #6376
    What Username Guidelines
    Registered Users Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭What Username Guidelines


    JTMan wrote: »
    Independent reports here (paywall):

    - Phase 5 will not be extended beyond 1 December.
    - Different "grades of Phase 3" will occur depending on cases.
    - Travel restrictions will be lifted around Christmas week.
    - Just 1 main gathering allowed for Christmas.
    - No decision yet on wet pubs, and indoor/outdoor dining.

    Hence, seems that we are going to Phase 3 on 1 December but just with the low hanging fruit of Phase 3 included. Gyms and non-essential retail allowed open on 1 December would be my guess with dining only included if case numbers decline.

    Can't read the article, but the '1 main gathering' thing is interesting. I'm surprised they arent pushing a 'bubble' model. It's kind of made it's way into our lexicon, maybe from the UK, but the idea of 2 households mixing at a time or limiting the number of gatherings to, in this case one, appears to be come off as heavy-handed. I'm wondering would they be better off pushing the idea that you create a bubble at christmas with 1 or 2 other households?

    The idea of 'up to two households' will likely result in multiple callers to houses over the course of a day, for those that follow it. Being limited to just one main gathering is likely to result in a larger number mixing perhaps? Whereas if I could create a bubble with a group of friends or family, I could have a few gatherings over christmas week in different houses, with no more risk than the one main gathering, assuming it's with the same people.

    I have been of the belief that most will follow guidelines – with golfgate, BLM, etc, many said that was it, we've lost the public, but surprisingly we're here 9 months later and most are following. From what I'm seeing in WhatsApp groups though, those who were following up to now, perhaps even being overly strict, are all talking about a brother coming home from UK, cousins coming to Dublin, etc., with the attitude of "Sure it's going to be a bad Jan/Feb, but I'll just stay in and be grand".

    Plenty of people will take the risk and get away with it I guess, but there'll be those unlucky families where it'll spread. Feel bad for those that absolutely cannot take the risk and have cocooned all year.


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    #6377
    AltGrp0
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭AltGrp0


    mandrake04 wrote: »
    The 45 cycles is dependent on platform, some platforms are 40 and its manufacturers recommendations rather than WHO that determine this.


    However there's a feature called CCO (Cycle cut off), these are being used and they are no where near 40/45.

    without giving too much away I explain here.
    Very interesting links, thank you. There is a lot of conflicting information on the subject so this is most helpful. What seems likely to me is that there have been changes to the CCO, and therefore the case positivity rate. This is based on a published HSE recommendation to NPHET mid Oct recommending cycles be lowered to avoid false positive readings. Any insights here?


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    #6378
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    I see on the covid dashboard that there had been 11519 healthcare cases. This is approx one in six of total cases.

    Does anyone have a chart showing this figure over time perhaps compared with total cases throughout the country.

    I know on the beginning almost one in four cases were health care workers. So the proportion of total cases seems to have fallen.

    They only release the total. It was on average 30% over the whole pandemic. Which is crazy high relative to other countries. i.e for every 2 people who got infected 1 HCW got infected. It also wasn't limited to high risk HCW like doctors and nurses. It was professions across the board. The lack of acknowledgement of the airborne nature of this has been one of the most costly mistakes throughout the pandemic. The PPE guidelines changed throughout also. Masks (even surgical) were not required unless you were within one meter of a confirmed case.

    The PPE which is worn in most other countries when HCW are in contacted with suspected or confirmed covid patients was only necessary for "aerosol generating procedures" which was a fairly specific criteria.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=114340483&postcount=2288


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    #6379
    mandrake04
    Registered Users Posts: 4,435 ✭✭✭mandrake04


    AltGrp0 wrote: »
    Very interesting links, thank you. There is a lot of conflicting information on the subject so this is most helpful. What seems likely to me is that there have been changes to the CCO, and therefore the case positivity rate. This is based on a published HSE recommendation to NPHET mid Oct recommending cycles be lowered to avoid false positive readings. Any insights here?

    I know what you are talking about, the letter that wasn't confirmed to have been implemented.

    I seen something else and it just strengthens my original opinion.


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    #6380
    AltGrp0
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭AltGrp0


    paw patrol wrote: »
    I posted on this before - in Oct


    overly sensitive tests are NOT a good thing



    Thanks for your reply, I have heard the same thing but have been unable to verify, Would you have links to the FOI document by any chance?


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    #6381
    AltGrp0
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭AltGrp0


    mandrake04 wrote: »
    I know what you are talking about, the letter that wasn't confirmed to have been implemented.

    I seen something else and it just strengthens my original opinion.

    Neither confirmed nor unconfirmed. This is the problem imo-we are being kept in the dark.


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    #6382
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users Posts: 8,810 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    paw patrol wrote: »
    I posted on this before - in Oct


    overly sensitive tests are NOT a good thing



    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=114911257&postcount=1277

    Crazy, and they want to make this mandatory for travel ? at €150 a pop !! ??

    Do they want to just kill all tourism or what ?


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    #6383
    copeyhagen
    Registered Users Posts: 4,528 ✭✭✭copeyhagen


    JTMan wrote: »
    Independent reports here (paywall):

    - Phase 5 will not be extended beyond 1 December.
    - Different "grades of Phase 3" will occur depending on cases.
    - Travel restrictions will be lifted around Christmas week.
    - Just 1 main gathering allowed for Christmas.
    - No decision yet on wet pubs, and indoor/outdoor dining.

    Hence, seems that we are going to Phase 3 on 1 December but just with the low hanging fruit of Phase 3 included. Gyms and non-essential retail allowed open on 1 December would be my guess with dining only included if case numbers decline.

    let down on the outdoor only for pubs if thats the case.

    wonder who Dr.Hush will blame today? Workers? parties? someone else?


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    #6384
    mandrake04
    Registered Users Posts: 4,435 ✭✭✭mandrake04


    AltGrp0 wrote: »
    Neither confirmed nor unconfirmed. This is the problem imo-we are being kept in the dark.

    Yeah I understand but really there's nothing to be concerned about.

    Its like KFC, no one but a few knows the 11 secret ingredients but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and it doesn't really matter as long as you are happy with the taste.

    HSE is not obliged to tell people everything that would be silly, they only feed them vague titbits to the public to make them feel as if they are being informed and no more. Its part of the government after all.


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    #6385
    Peter Flynt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,812 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    How on Earth did Tony Holohan and NPHET think they could get cases back to 100 per day with 1 million in schools, all groceries/supermarkets open, construction industry in operation, etc....

    We were led to believe that Level 5 was Lockdown Mark II.

    It wasn't even Lockdown Lite.

    Level 5 did exactly what it could do . . . . reduce the economy and bring down the number of cases. . . So we ended up halfway down the curve and are on our way back up it again.

    What we now get is Holohan throwing all his toys out of the NPHET pram because he wants the country half-open and next to no cases. . . . This ain't gonna happen so he blames sectors of society (young, old) and pits one part of society against another.

    That guy is incompetent and needs to resign.

    Either do the lockdown properly or don't it at all.


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    #6386
    Eod100
    Registered Users Posts: 11,645 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    JTMan wrote: »
    Independent reports here (paywall):

    - Phase 5 will not be extended beyond 1 December.
    - Different "grades of Phase 3" will occur depending on cases.
    - Travel restrictions will be lifted around Christmas week.
    - Just 1 main gathering allowed for Christmas.
    - No decision yet on wet pubs, and indoor/outdoor dining.

    Hence, seems that we are going to Phase 3 on 1 December but just with the low hanging fruit of Phase 3 included. Gyms and non-essential retail allowed open on 1 December would be my guess with dining only included if case numbers decline.

    Yet again Varadkar's biographer gets the scoop. What are the odds?!


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    #6387
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users Posts: 6,034 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    JTMan wrote: »
    Independent reports here (paywall):

    - Phase 5 will not be extended beyond 1 December.
    - Different "grades of Phase 3" will occur depending on cases.
    - Travel restrictions will be lifted around Christmas week.
    - Just 1 main gathering allowed for Christmas.
    - No decision yet on wet pubs, and indoor/outdoor dining.

    Hence, seems that we are going to Phase 3 on 1 December but just with the low hanging fruit of Phase 3 included. Gyms and non-essential retail allowed open on 1 December would be my guess with dining only included if case numbers decline.

    No intercounty travel for another three weeks

    Three weeks more of not seeing friends, family, partners

    Good luck to the government selling that one

    Even the Christmas week thing is laughable

    Ye can travel 21st - 27th but not 28th to after New years

    People are going to ignore that wholesale


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    #6388
    Ger Roe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,106 ✭✭✭Ger Roe


    Peter Flynt wrote: »
    How on Earth did Tony Holohan and NPHET think they could get cases back to 100 per day with 1 million in schools, all groceries/supermarkets open, construction industry in operation, etc....

    We were led to believe that Level 5 was Lockdown Mark II.

    It wasn't even Lockdown Lite.

    Level 5 did exactly what it could do . . . . reduce the economy and bring down the number of cases. . . So we ended up halfway down the curve and are on our way back up it again.

    What we now get is Holohan throwing all his toys out of the NPHET pram because he wants the country half-open and next to no cases. . . . This ain't gonna happen so he blames sectors of society (young, old) and pits one part of society against another.

    That guy is incompetent and needs to resign.

    Either do the lockdown properly or don't it at all.

    NPHET make recommendations based on public health concerns. Our elected reps then decide if and how the recommendations should be implemented. A lot of the apparent contradictions you point out, may well not be directly associated with NPHET - there are government party agendas to be considered when they decide what to do. Everything has one eye on the health crisis, one on the next election and a third political eye on what pressure the back benchers are applying as a result of feedback they are receiving from their local troughs.

    Politics is a dirty game of exerted influences and opportunity taking - those games continue to be played at all times, even during a global pandemic - look at the mess in the north for a perfect example.

    It's not as simple as NPHET having total control of all that we hear and see.


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    #6389
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    Thierry12 wrote: »
    Those hospitals are bringing the country to it's knees, absolute scandal

    What the hell are they doing in there?

    12,000 cases out of 70,000 Covid cases in Ireland are health care workers

    In that article it says health care workers are self isolating over that patient.

    Why are they self isolating?

    Are they not wearing PPE all day?

    PPE not fit for purpose?

    Or are those eejits having chats to each other and socialising on site in the hospital's with no PPE?

    If a health care worker is getting Covid at work they should be disciplined, simple as

    If PPE works, no excuse for catching it at work.

    You can't wear full PPE all day. You need to change PPE for each Covid patient you see, can't use the same equipment with multiple patients.

    The patient in question here wasn't Covid positive, hence there wouldn't have been a requirement for staff to wear full PPE.

    Maybe you could research some of the basic stuff before openly spouting your ignorance in front of everyone? Your post it fairly embarrassing.


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    #6390
    tigger123
    Registered Users Posts: 4,441 ✭✭✭tigger123


    What constitutes Christmas week? December 24th to 31st?


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    #6391
    Peter Flynt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,812 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    Ger Roe wrote: »
    NPHET make recommendations based on public health concerns. Our elected reps then decide if and how the recommendations should be implemented. A lot of the apparent contradictions you point out, may well not be directly associated with NPHET - there are government party agendas to be considered when they decide what to do. Everything has one eye on the health crisis, one on the next election and a third political eye on what pressure the back benchers are applying as a result of feedback they are receiving from their local troughs.

    Politics is a dirty game of exerted influences and opportunity taking - those games continue to be played at all times, even during a global pandemic - look at the mess in the north for a perfect example.

    It's not as simple as NPHET having total control of all that we hear and see.


    I agree with much of this but NPHET have gone down the political route - especially when it comes to schools. They have lied their arses off, fiddled the figures and all whilst other countries are closing.

    There needs to be more honesty and openness instead of bs and spin. . . and all with a little less finger pointing at people or certain sectors of society.

    As things stand relative to Europe (and I don't like comparisons) things are not as bad. We are in a position to ease restrictions but is this what we want?

    We need a clear strategy, realistic goals and a need for NPHET to stop sticking their heads in their arses and blaming certain people/sectors.


This discussion has been closed.
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