Covid 19 Part XXVIII- 71,942 ROI(2,050 deaths) 51,824 NI (983 deaths) (28/11) Read OP

Non solum non ambulabit wrote: »

You are arguing against yourself now.

Rubbish in rubbish out? Yet swabs have always been a percentage above cases. Since day one they have matched each other in that regard.

You seem to believe there should be no correlation yet all the data produced over the last 8 months confirms there is.

You need to go back to the drawing board.

There’s a difference of 500 per month, all the cute graphs and circle jerking number guessing doesn’t change the actual numbers.

Some days there might be a correlation that gives an impression that they match but the reality is different.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115151179&postcount=155

alice14 wrote: »

I’m a healthcare worker in a large Dublin hospital and although I don’t agree with a lot of what is said on this thread the current situation is a sh*tshow where I work. Outbreaks on multiple wards over the last month to 6 weeks and not improving. Most of our covid cases were hospital acquired, I’d say about 60% . Mass testing happens on wards with outbreaks but it’s too late by then, and it seems to spread like wildfire.

I think people people in the community aren’t being as careful as during lockdown number 1 and that’s resulting in increased cases but it’s not the whole story. And I don’t seem nphet/ HSE suggesting what they are going to do differently to solve the hospital issue because what they’re doing at the moment isn’t working.

I've a nearby neighbour who had elective surgery cancelled twice. The last one was scheduled for today and they called and told her it was cancelled again "because of covid, because there are no beds" - I quote because that's what I am told she was told. Could this be related to your point? Do they want to keep people away from hospital unless absolutely necessary, because of these hospital outbreaks? So what they should have said was, "your surgery is cancelled because here is a clusterfúck at the moment and we don't want you to get covid".

Hellrazer wrote: »

If you mean NPHET -NPHET shouldn't be delivering any messages - ever.

Our elected representatives should be delivering the messages they received from NPHET as NPHET work for them and in a round about way for every citizen in the country.

NPHET should not be releasing statements at all. Especially not the CMO who threw all those women involved in the cervical cancer to the wolves. Hes scum and shouldn't be involved in the health of the public at all.

Remember he was the one who advised AGAINST a review of the cervical cancer screening programme.
We`ve very short memories here in Ireland.

Have you seen our elected representatives trying to deliver a message as of late in regards to our strategy and aims for fighting this pandemic? They're usually chaotic and incoherent. The abiding impression is that they don't really know what they are doing or even why they are doing it.

If you say they should deliver the message they receive from NPHET then I'd rather hear it from the horse's mouth, who can usually deliver that message with a semblance of logic and authority.

I think what may have occurred with cervical check is a completely separate issue to what we are dealing with here. It doesn't automatically invalidate the merits of NPHET's role in fighting Covid 19 or even making public pronouncements - but incidentally, Gabriel Sally, who wrote the report into the scandal, has been in complete agreement with NPHET's advice and approach through this.

Arghus wrote: »

Have you seen our elected representatives trying to deliver a message as of late in regards to our strategy and aims for fighting this pandemic? They're usually chaotic and incoherent. The abiding impression is that they don't really know what they are doing or even why they are doing it.

If you say they should deliver the message they receive from NPHET then I'd rather hear it from the horse's mouth, who can usually deliver that message with a semblance of logic and authority.

I think what may have occurred with cervical check is a completely separate issue to what we are dealing with here. It doesn't automatically invalidate the merits of NPHET's role in fighting Covid 19 or even making public pronouncements - but incidentally, Gabriel Sally, who wrote the report into the scandal, has been in complete agreement with NPHET's advice and approach through this.

There has been a noticeable change in tone by many papers/news sites regarding NPHET as of late. A buddy of mine maintains that they will be hurting from the loss of revenue from adverts if they don't spin it as "open for Christmas" and are under pressure to do so. Might be conspiracy theory but the media does influence the social narrative or a least augments it.

Non solum non ambulabit wrote: »

So they do match. Swabs higher cases lower.

Well done, you got there in the end.

That’s not matching it’s a difference no matter what way you dress it up, like in my other post was in reply that some days you can get 800 cases from 400 swabs.

Rubbish in rubbish out.

Then you have people foaming at the mouth about back logs.

NEPHET don’t give a damn about positive swabs, it’s cases that matter. No one cares about silly little graphs based on rubbish

prunudo wrote: »

This is a perfect example of my issue with Tony Holahan and his messaging.

Yes, like I said - anything he says will offend someone. I was hoping to hear alternatives to what they should do instead? Not have briefings where the media can ask questions? Try to be nicer? Outsource the briefings to someone else? I for one wouldn't want Stephen Donnelly, for example, to try and communicate with the public instead.

political analyst wrote: »

Canadian pathologist Dr Roger Hodkinson said lockdown is the greatest hoax carried out on an unsuspecting public.

https://dryburgh.com/narrative-control/2020/11/coronavirus-hoax-roger-hodkinson/

A hoax to what end? This is what confuses me. What do the gubberment have to gain by placing restrictions on the public? I’ve yet to hear any convincing reason to impose the restrictions outside of to suppress the spread and impact of a virus.

The ‘it’s only as bad as influenza’ argument was outdated months ago. It’s not a flu, the reactions made by governments the world over make that obvious. Heck it was obvious watching Chinas response back in feb. Statistically the virus is non threatening to a large age group, statistically. What I mean is, just because one might get Covid and show no symptoms or brush it off doesn’t mean the chance of severe or fatal complications is null, or that spreading it to others won’t result in others dead, not sniffling with lemsips and taking a few days off work, dead, g’luck, slater.

Ignoring that and just focusing on the very real (especially with our health system) potential clusterfurk that could result from hospitals reaching capacity and the resulting nightmare that would entail. When was the last time anyone ever heard of hospitals having to administer oxygen in car parks, or ventilator numbers not meeting demand and resulting in excess deaths. It’s strange times. But all this has all been repeated ad naseum.

I think attitudes change drastically when you know someone that suffered from Covid and died from it. As sad as that is.

Personally I like to think that my inability to visit family, travel or socialize doesn’t make my life so miserable or controlled to not be valuable and enjoyable. The virus being global, with every country will have economic repercussions gives me some peace of mind.

Do I believe the virus is non-deadly to my age group? Statistically yes, I’m golden, no underlying conditions and not in any risk group. Does this make me resent the lockdowns and restrictions? No. I can put my needs aside in the hope that someone else doesn’t suffer.


WHAT I AM TERRIFIED off is the fact that when faced with a global pandemic, a very real novel virus. Something not easily diluted down to an us vs them with a villain/group to loathe and a hero to rally behind. Where the greatest offence and defense is to limit interactions and stay at home. A huge amount to the public just can’t accept changes or at worst put their life on hold temporarily. It took mere weeks before we had people marching and protesting, cries of a mental health catastrophe, government conspiracy and draconian life altering measures. I had a colleague who’s greatest concerns (I **** you not) was not being able to travel abroad on his second sun holiday this year, deferring plans on buying a new Audi and that wearing a mask made his nose sweat. Meanwhile I was reading about India’s first lockdown and trying to gain perspective.


The reason I’m terrified is now we know the reaction and ability a large chunk of people will have if there is a novel virus THAT IS life threatening. Let’s say a new virus with a ... we’ll say 40% death rate. I wish I could say people would react differently, but honestly. I don’t think they would. That’s scary. It’s terrifying to know that people can’t even write off a year in order to save someone multiple. The fact that everything I’ve spewed here will do nothing to change the opinions of someone who feels strongly against the restrictions and actions taken is also not lost on me.

Not aimed directly at the OP just an early morning coffee rant. Apologies for what is probably an over long and grammer landfill post.

EDIT: chopped out the personal waffle

Danonino. wrote: »

A hoax to what end? This is what confuses me. What do the gubberment have to gain by placing restrictions on the public? I’ve yet to hear any convincing reason to impose the restrictions outside of to suppress the spread and impact of a virus.

The ‘it’s only as bad as influenza’ argument was outdated months ago. It’s not a flu, the reactions made by governments the world over make that obvious. Heck it was obvious watching Chinas response back in feb. Statistically the virus is non threatening to a large age group, statistically. What I mean is, just because one might get Covid and show no symptoms or brush it off doesn’t mean the chance of severe or fatal complications is null, or that spreading it to others won’t result in others dead, not sniffling with lemsips and taking a few days off work, dead, g’luck, slater.

Ignoring that and just focusing on the very real (especially with our health system) potential clusterfurk that could result from hospitals reaching capacity and the resulting nightmare that would entail. When was the last time anyone ever heard of hospitals having to administer oxygen in car parks, or ventilator numbers not meeting demand and resulting in excess deaths. It’s strange times. But all this has all been repeated ad naseum.

I think attitudes change drastically when you know someone that suffered from Covid and died from it. As sad as that is.

Personally I like to think that my inability to visit family, travel or socialize doesn’t make my life so miserable or controlled to not be valuable and enjoyable. The virus being global, with every country will have economic repercussions gives me some peace of mind.

Do I believe the virus is non-deadly to my age group? Statistically yes, I’m golden, no underlying conditions and not in any risk group. Does this make me resent the lockdowns and restrictions? No. I can put my needs aside in the hope that someone else doesn’t suffer.


WHAT I AM TERRIFIED off is the fact that when faced with a global pandemic, a very real novel virus. Something not easily diluted down to an us vs them with a villain/group to loathe and a hero to rally behind. Where the greatest offence and defense is to limit interactions and stay at home. A huge amount to the public just can’t accept changes or at worst put their life on hold temporarily. It took mere weeks before we had people marching and protesting, cries of a mental health catastrophe, government conspiracy and draconian life altering measures. I had a colleague who’s greatest concerns (I **** you not) was not being able to travel abroad on his second sun holiday this year, deferring plans on buying a new Audi and that wearing a mask made his nose sweat. Meanwhile I was reading about India’s first lockdown and trying to gain perspective.


The reason I’m terrified is now we know the reaction and ability a large chunk of people will have if there is a novel virus THAT IS life threatening. Let’s say a new virus with a ... we’ll say 40% death rate. I wish I could say people would react differently, but honestly. I don’t think they would. That’s scary. It’s terrifying to know that people can’t even write off a year in order to save someone multiple. The fact that everything I’ve spewed here will do nothing to change the opinions of someone who feels strongly against the restrictions and actions taken is also not lost on me.

Not aimed directly at the OP just an early morning coffee rant. Apologies for what is probably an over long and grammer landfill post.

EDIT: chopped out the personal waffle

Most people are not stupid. If there really was a virus that did have a 40% death rate then behaviour would adjust. Yes there was complacency during the summer but that was across the board - sure the HSE were closing testing centres.

Danonino. wrote: »

A hoax to what end? This is what confuses me. What do the gubberment have to gain by placing restrictions on the public? I’ve yet to hear any convincing reason to impose the restrictions outside of to suppress the spread and impact of a virus.

So Tony gets to be on the telly, I think, is the current reasoning.

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Most people are not stupid. If there really was a virus that did have a 40% death rate then behaviour would adjust. Yes there was complacency during the summer but that was across the board - sure the HSE were closing testing centres.

Indeed, sure didn't Michael Ryan of the WHO announce on the 5th October that 10% of the world have already had covid19, by their own data. That makes the infection fatality rate around the same as the flu, roughly 0.15% There was a spike in deaths in March /April ( when we were all in "lockdown" !) mostly due to flawed policies in nursing homes; but there is no excess mortality for the year all told. We need to stop with all the hysteria now and get on with things.

8k71ps wrote: »

I don't think the government are even aware of what the plan is for Christmas for definite at this point so I wouldn't bank on it. Certainly with the growing rate of infection something is going to have to give, be it the closing of retail or a massive explosion of cases leading to an even longer lockdown from Jan onwards (the vaccines won't be a magic bullet for a long while).

Meanwhile this government still does not have a proper testing and tracing system setup alongside proper enforcement of the rules which can prevent the superspreaders from throwing us into lockdown every 3 months or so, instead preferring to sit on their arses in fear of losing popularity rather than serving our country.

Where are you getting the growing rate of infection?

And then people will say "Don't worry, the cases are just in the health system, there's no real community transmission problem", just like there were people saying "Don't worry, it's just the meat factories, there's feck all community transmission, there's never going to be a second wave - stop fearmongering".


100% agreed health system issues need to be addressed, but it would be nice if we could avoid suggesting it's a completely separate probem, which would contribute to overall complacency and head-in-the-sandedness.