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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Comments

  • #9092
    I see sheep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,104 ✭✭✭I see sheep


    hmmm wrote: »
    2. My previous point. Why take your chances with Covid when you could take a vaccine. I don't understand how people are making a risk judgement which leads them to think a "natural" infection will be safer than a vaccine which replicates a small part of the virus and has been tested for safety. It tells me that people have been sold complete misinformation if they think getting the virus is the safer route.

    I think healthy people who aren't in the vulnerable category are just weighing up whether it's safer to take it or not.

    I've heard lots of different figures so it's hard to know at this point I'll research further before I decide.

    But just hypothetically -

    If the chance of a bad adverse reaction is 1% and the chance of getting very ill from covid is 1% then it wouldn't make sense to get it (because the odds of getting covid are still quite long).

    "a terrible war imposed by the provisional IRA"

    Our West Brit Taoiseach



  • #9093
    BeefeaterHat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 547 ✭✭✭BeefeaterHat


    kippy wrote: »
    I don't know how long it's going to take, I was just pointing out it wasn't going to happen in one day.......which is why the commentary on it being a compliment to existing regulations.

    There wont be a country in the world that role out a vacine in one day, or one week I'd suggest.

    I never said it was going to happen in a day I just pointed out that other nations have a timescale in place while all that's been done here is 'planning'


  • #9094
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,203 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    BeefeaterHat wrote: »
    How long is that going to take? Japan are planning to have everyone vaccinated by the summer, what's our timescale looking like or is it going to be a Laurel and Hardy job?
    Fauci thinks the US will be done by mid year.

    I think for us a lot depends on whether either the Astra Zeneca or J&J vaccine are reasonably successful (we don't need 90% effectiveness). We probably don't have enough doses of the Moderna & Pfizer vaccine to get everyone who wants one vaccinated by mid-year. The EU have signed deals with multiple companies, and the doses are allocated equally by population.


  • #9095
    CruelSummer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,328 ✭✭✭CruelSummer


    BeefeaterHat wrote: »
    How long is that going to take? Japan are planning to have everyone vaccinated by the summer, what's our timescale looking like or is it going to be a Laurel and Hardy job?

    I saw on Prime Time last night, Dr Cillian DeGascun stated that the current results Pfizer are publishing are based on just 7 days post vaccination of the 2nd dose. Also no peer reviewed data has been released. Think they're right on this to sound caution and wait for the actual medical information to come through. There will be a range of vaccines on offer, look at the scientific data before splurging billions which is what these press releases are designed to do. Their efficacy rates are excellent and I hope all goes to plan for all our sakes.


  • #9096
    darconio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 935 ✭✭✭darconio


    hmmm wrote: »
    2. My previous point. Why take your chances with Covid when you could take a vaccine. I don't understand how people are making a risk judgement which leads them to think a "natural" infection will be safer than a vaccine which replicates a small part of the virus and has been tested for safety. It tells me that people have been sold complete misinformation if they think getting the virus is the safer route.


    Same way as I never got a flu jab but I'm still around these days (last time I checked). If people being part of the vulnerable prefer to get vaccinated I have nothing against them: I'd rather be part of the herd immunity than getting injected with a sample of a virus, unless I am forced of course, but that's for another conversation.


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  • #9097
    dalyboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭dalyboy


    hmmm wrote: »
    Sure. There's two issues I can think of:

    1. The vaccines have spectacular effectiveness, but they are not quite 100%. If you vaccinated all the vulnerable with the Pfizer vaccine, 5% could still get disease. In the Pfizer trial 10 in the vaccine group got Covid including 1 serious case. Multiply that over a large vulnerable population and you could still have a problem. We need to stop the virus circulating as much as possible, which will mean herd immunity and mass vaccinations.
    2. My previous point. Why take your chances with Covid when you could take a vaccine. I don't understand how people are making a risk judgement which leads them to think a "natural" infection will be safer than a vaccine which replicates a small part of the virus and has been tested for safety. It tells me that people have been sold complete misinformation if they think getting the virus is the safer route.

    The elderly and vulnerable will be vaccinated 1st. (Hopefully April or may 2021) which will bring CFR risk levels to minuscule levels. (CFR Levels less than the common cold)

    If at that point we hear uttered the words “lockdown” , “new normal” or “social distancing” etc there’ll be vicious riots on our streets daily. Guaranteed.

    Sense will prevail I hope though. That’s 6 months from now. What’ll be left of our SMEs , culture , mental well-being and kids future if we continue with the covidimania further than that ?


  • #9098
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,203 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    I see sheep wrote: »
    If the chance of a bad adverse reaction is 1% and the chance of getting very ill from covid is 1% then it wouldn't make sense to get it (because the odds of getting covid are still quite long).
    A vaccine isn't going to have 1% bad adverse reactions. Trials are shut down completely for review after a single adverse reaction out of 30,000 people. Vaccines could potentially have been pulled entirely if 2 people in a trial had a bad adverse reaction - if my maths are right that's .00006%

    The Pfizer data showed mild side effects:

    "The only Grade 3 (severe) solicited adverse events greater than or equal to 2% in frequency after the first or second dose was fatigue at 3.8% and headache at 2.0% following dose 2. Consistent with earlier shared results, older adults tended to report fewer and milder solicited adverse events following vaccination."


  • #9099
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,624 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    hmmm wrote: »

    "The only Grade 3 (severe) solicited adverse events greater than or equal to 2% in frequency after the first or second dose was fatigue at 3.8% and headache at 2.0% following dose 2. Consistent with earlier shared results, older adults tended to report fewer and milder solicited adverse events following vaccination."

    That sounds worse then Covid itself:pac:


  • #9100
    Cluedo Monopoly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,433 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    hmmm wrote: »
    Sure. There's two issues I can think of:

    1. The vaccines have spectacular effectiveness

    They claim!

    I for one do not think their claims are possible.

    mRNA vaccines are still unproven. The FDA have never authorised one before.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • #9101
    kippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,238 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    BeefeaterHat wrote: »
    I never said it was going to happen in a day I just pointed out that other nations have a timescale in place while all that's been done here is 'planning'

    https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/japan-announces-plans-covid-19-vaccinations-june-2021

    It's not exactly difficult to say you have a plan to do something by a certain date, which is pretty much all they've done/said at this point. Maybe as a state they have been developing a vaccinne themselves.....which puts a bit more control in their own hands but right now, a vaccinne hasn't even been released and/or produced in large numbers........
    Say MM says this evening that they plan to have the vacinne rolled out by July and it doesn't happen - where does that leave them?
    Pretty silly putting a date on something you have little to no control over at this point in time.


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  • #9102
    I see sheep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,104 ✭✭✭I see sheep


    hmmm wrote: »
    A vaccine isn't going to have 1% bad adverse reactions. Trials are shut down completely for a single adverse reaction out of 30,000 people. Vaccines could potentially have been pulled entirely if 2 people in a trial had a bad adverse reaction.

    The Pfizer data showed mild side effects:

    "The only Grade 3 (severe) solicited adverse events greater than or equal to 2% in frequency after the first or second dose was fatigue at 3.8% and headache at 2.0% following dose 2. Consistent with earlier shared results, older adults tended to report fewer and milder solicited adverse events following vaccination."

    Like I said I'll research previous vaccines and see what the figures are.

    I've taken a fair few vaccines I have no problem in theory with them.

    Before going to Asia for the first time I think I got 3, but they had all been vaccines in use for decades. I declined to take anti-malaria tablets because they make a lot of people ill.

    I am wary of one created so quickly.

    I do think vulnerable people should get it.

    "a terrible war imposed by the provisional IRA"

    Our West Brit Taoiseach



  • #9103
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,203 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »
    They claim!

    I for one do not think their claims are possible.
    Trials are overseen by an independent body. The companies involved don't know the results until the independent body publish them.


  • #9104
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,870 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    BeefeaterHat wrote: »
    Small potatoes, he's alright so what else matters? 20% unemployment and 45% youth unemployment and some people can't see what the problem is.

    Absolutely tone deaf- “let them eat cake”. Unfortunately this is what is running the country (into the ground) just now


  • #9105
    treade1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 149 ✭✭treade1


    CruelSummer wrote: »
    I saw on Prime Time last night, Dr Cillian DeGascun stated that the current results Pfizer are publishing are based on just 7 days post vaccination of the 2nd dose. Also no peer reviewed data has been released. Think they're right on this to sound caution and wait for the actual medical information to come through. There will be a range of vaccines on offer, look at the scientific data before splurging billions which is what these press releases are designed to do. Their efficacy rates are excellent and I hope all goes to plan for all our sakes.

    The evidence would suggest that the vaccine is safe and is very effective 7 days post vaccination. The big question is will this immunity last? Will the vaccine still protect 95% of people inoculated after 3 months or 6 months. It is a new type of vaccine so nothing is guaranteed. Of course the pharmaceutical companies would love a vaccine which everyone needed to get every 6 months to maintain immunity.


  • #9106
    Cluedo Monopoly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,433 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    hmmm wrote: »
    Trials are overseen by an independent body. The companies involved don't know the results until the independent body publish them.

    I will wait for the FDA to crunch the data. mRNA vaccines are still unproven and they have been researching them for over 2 decades. The FDA have never authorised a messenger RNA vaccine before.

    Both the Pfizer vaccine and the Moderna vaccine are made using synthetic messenger RNA.

    Don't believe the hype just yet. If they are 95%, then mRNA vaccines are a game changer.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • #9107
    Thierry12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Thierry12


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    I didn't , you did !
    Do you want me to direct you to the post where you said on that " a nursing friend told you about a 93 year old woman dying in her nursing home after getting the flu vaccine " , directly lifted from an antivaxx site in UK which has been proven to be posting misinformation and is taken down. Exact same story circulating there .
    So don't expect anyone to trust anything you post if you are spreading drivel like that ..

    Some people here really are thick

    What are on about

    UK story?

    The 93 year old resident died a few days after the flu jab

    She was 93, death comes to us all

    Why would I lie about that?

    I didn't even say it was related, inferred alright, probably was related imo

    You think no one in history has died a few days after flu jab?

    You do know in Pfziers 95% efficacious Covid vaccine trial that someone almost died of Covid

    Injected with the vaccine and severely sick

    It happens


  • #9108
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,939 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    kippy wrote: »
    https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandemic/japan-announces-plans-covid-19-vaccinations-june-2021

    It's not exactly difficult to say you have a plan to do something by a certain date, which is pretty much all they've done/said at this point. Maybe as a state they have been developing a vaccinne themselves.....which puts a bit more control in their own hands but right now, a vaccinne hasn't even been released and/or produced in large numbers........
    Say MM says this evening that they plan to have the vacinne rolled out by July and it doesn't happen - where does that leave them?
    Pretty silly putting a date on something you have little to no control over at this point in time.

    Yes. And the UK has been to the fore about how they are going to vaccinate and who will be first and so on , all to detract from the sxxx show going on in Downing St , and the way they have mishandled this so far .


  • #9109
    froog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭froog


    road_high wrote: »
    The 100s of thousands now out of work etc might be a problem but clearly not to your good self

    it's a global pandemic. we have no vaccine. you expect pubs to be open?


  • #9110
    froog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭froog


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    Europe’s youngest population, on an island, with less than 1/10th the population of Italy, has had, for over 8 months, Europe’s most unsocial and economically catastrophic policy to combat a disease that primarily effects the elderly.

    That’s the problem

    why is the fact that it primarily effects the elderly an issue for you in this regard? is it because you are not elderly yourself?


  • #9111
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,939 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    treade1 wrote: »
    The evidence would suggest that the vaccine is safe and is very effective 7 days post vaccination. The big question is will this immunity last? Will the vaccine still protect 95% of people inoculated after 3 months or 6 months. It is a new type of vaccine so nothing is guaranteed. Of course the pharmaceutical companies would love a vaccine which everyone needed to get every 6 months to maintain immunity.

    As a healthcare professional , I get my flu vaccine every year , and would have no problem getting this yearly .
    I hope it doesn't have to be more than that .
    So far nurses and midwives are the highest of any occupation to be infected with Covid , so we will be hoping that we get decent and lasting immunity from a vaccine .


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  • #9112
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,624 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    froog wrote: »
    why is the fact that it primarily effects the elderly an issue for you in this regard? is it because you are not elderly yourself?

    It’s because Ireland has Europe’s youngest population.

    Is that an issue for you?


  • #9113
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,939 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Thierry12 wrote: »
    Some people here really are thick

    What are on about

    UK story?

    The 93 year old resident died a few days after the flu jab

    She was 93, death comes to us all

    Why would I lie about that?

    I didn't even say it was related, inferred alright, probably was related imo

    You think no one in history has died a few days after flu jab?

    You do know in Pfziers 95% efficacious Covid vaccine trial that someone almost died of Covid

    Injected with the vaccine and severely sick

    It happens

    It does happen , but very very rarely and more likely an anaphylactic reaction then anything else , or pre existing infection .
    You know the flu vaccine cannot cause pneumonia in anyone, don't you ? It's not a live virus ! Even the " miniflu" that MAY occur after injection is just a mild cold to most for a day or so , or headaches and a sore arm.
    You didn't know that ?
    So who are you calling thick then?
    Bit of a coincidence you have that narrative and have a handy little anecdote that is exactly the same as that being circulated on that site .

    Also why does your default response be to call other posters thick or ignorant ? Very uncivil of you ..


  • #9114
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,870 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    froog wrote: »
    it's a global pandemic. we have no vaccine. you expect pubs to be open?

    Never even mentioned pubs- I know the puritans are obsessed with them and their hysterical pandemic.


  • #9115
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,870 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    It’s because Ireland has Europe’s youngest population.

    Is that an issue for you?

    It appears yes, that we ALL must suffer penance- regardless of any scientific evidence of how mild it has turned out to be for younger people.


  • #9116
    froog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭froog


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    It’s because Ireland has Europe’s youngest population.

    Is that an issue for you?

    yeah that doesn't mean we have no elderly people in the country.


  • #9117
    froog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭froog


    road_high wrote: »
    It appears yes, that we ALL must suffer penance- regardless of any scientific evidence of how mild it has turned out to be for younger people.

    it's called civic duty and empathy towards those who are at risk. you may need to google those terms.


  • #9118
    prunudo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,105 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    As a healthcare professional , I get my flu vaccine every year , and would have no problem getting this yearly .
    I hope it doesn't have to be more than that .
    So far nurses and midwives are the highest of any occupation to be infected with Covid , so we will be hoping that we get decent and lasting immunity from a vaccine .

    On one hand you want us to believe your story that you're a health care worker yet you won't take another posters story at face value. Its an anonymous site, we have to believe each other or whats the point to engaging with each other.

    I don't doubt you, but at the same time i don't doubt Thierry's story about the 93 yr old either.


  • #9119
    froog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭froog


    this thread



  • #9120
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,624 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    froog wrote: »
    it's called civic duty and empathy towards those who are at risk. you may need to google those terms.

    We are going to spend years with our social lives in suspense. Work sleep repeat.

    All to carry out this “civic duty”

    What is it exactly this civic duty?


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  • #9121
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    RobitTV wrote: »
    Why is Holohan being allowed to dictate government policy? rapid antigen testing is needed just in time for Christmas travel.
    NPHET are unconvinced about antigen testing, like they were unconvinced about masks.

    NPHET are a wing of the HSE - a body which for the last 15 years has lurched from crisis to scandal to debacle. I don't understand the unquestioning trust some people have in NPHET, have none of them read the news in the last decade?


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