Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings

feedmindc19 · 18-11-2020 03:50PM

average_runner wrote: »

Just found out Aunt tested positive for Covid. She was at a funeral with 25 people and went to the house afterwards. One of the nephews tested positive and still went to to the funeral. 13 out of 25 now tested positive.

How stupid can you get[/QUOTE

I have read that people have had multiple tests as in one can come positive another negative , and if the guy wasn't sick he probably thought he was alright. I know 6people from around here where I live that have had it, From what I see there are worse diseases to be had than C19 to be fair.

average_runner · 18-11-2020 04:11PM

normanoffside wrote: »

Good luck with that!

Good news: The EU have approved antigen tests as of today

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1329046305495261190

Bad news: Michael martin tells the dail that Our Public Health Authorties 'are not convinced'

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1329053445576388608

More and more positive news getting out.

road_high · 18-11-2020 04:20PM

Stormyteacup wrote: »

But what’s behind this? Have we no money left to pay for antigen tests, have contracts been signed for PCR tests supply difficult to wriggle out of?

Can’t understand why they can’t be employed as another tool in the box.

PCR up to 30% false negative and antigen tests up to 50% - Surely the difference is compensated by faster, cheaper test and results.

Sounds very likely- lots of lucrative contracts for Governemnt and Nphet cronies riding on this. Why would they want to give up this handy through-put of work and money anytime soon?

18-11-2020 04:25PM

Stormyteacup wrote: »

But what’s behind this? Have we no money left to pay for antigen tests, have contracts been signed for PCR tests supply difficult to wriggle out of?

Can’t understand why they can’t be employed as another tool in the box.

PCR up to 30% false negative and antigen tests up to 50% - Surely the difference is compensated by faster, cheaper test and results.

It was very interesting listening to Pat Kenny interviewing Stephen Donnelly our fabulous Health Minister live on radio this morning. Pat tried to pin Stephen Donnelly down as to WHY we are not using Antigen testing and Donnelly was positively squirming in his reply. He said HE believed in them and wanted them but NPHET (or as he put it our Public Health Executives) are not convinced that Antigen testing is the way to go right now!! It beggars belief .
Pat was positively spitting feathers and said it defies logic that we would not use Antigen testing at this stage to open back up the country.

WHY are NPHET making the decisions about running the entire country, the economy, business, mental health and people's wellbeing .... is this about ego.... is this about Tony Holohan and his arrogance and not wanting to back down at any cost? Because I am simply not getting it, especially if the EU have said Antigen testing is the way to go!

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1329046305495261190

road_high · 18-11-2020 04:29PM

Good enough for all of Europe but not our blessed Master St. Tony. Sweet jesus :rolleyes:

funnydoggy · 18-11-2020 04:34PM

NPHET are gowls.

hmmm · 18-11-2020 04:39PM

TRANQUILLO wrote: »

the survival rate is 99 odd percent as it is . even better than a vaccine hahah

The vaccine trials have a 100% survival rate. The 94/95% statistic is the reduction in the number of people who get Covid when vaccinated.

Your choice in the next 6 months will probably be a vaccine which is tested and prevents most serious disease, or take your chances with a new virus with unknown side effects which will kill some people. Vaccine hesitancy will also slow down how quickly we can lift restrictions.

18-11-2020 04:47PM

road_high wrote: »

Good enough for all of Europe but not our blessed Master St. Tony. Sweet jesus :rolleyes:

But why is nobody taking NPHET to task about this? What makes Ireland special? Why have we endured the longest lockdown in Europe this year, a brief respite to Level 3, and now 6 weeks of a further lockdown? If other EU countries are using Antigen testing why is it not good enough for Ireland?

We were told we could staycation, we were told we could eat outside, meet outside, even drink outside....... yet when numbers climb again its suddenly the "public's" fault. I really am beginning to smell a rat at this stage! Is there money involved in contracts for PCR testing? Who will benefit from these contracts? Why are there no independent journalists asking hard questions?

There is too much at stake at this stage to just sit there accepting whatever punishment, admonishment and blame NPHET lay at the feet of the citizens of this country. Why are they not being asked to explain themselves and not treat us all like fools? What is the problem with Antigen testing if the rest of Europe have been recommended to use it in a bid to help open up their economies?

(so many questions, so few answers

)

Ginger n Lemon · 18-11-2020 04:48PM

hmmm wrote: »

The vaccine trials have a 100% survival rate. The 94/95% statistic is the reduction in the number of people who get Covid when vaccinated.

Your choice in the next 6 months will probably be a vaccine which is tested and prevents most serious disease, or take your chances with a new virus with unknown side effects which will kill some people. Vaccine hesitancy will also slow down how quickly we can lift restrictions.

That doesnt make any sense. I thought we need to vaccinate vulnerable and elderly?

Or do we need to vaccinate entire population against this deadly disease that 99.8% recover from, in order to come back to normal life?

Also that in bold. Is covid the most serious disease? Boy, Ebola, step aside - covid is in town. :rolleyes:

BeefeaterHat · 18-11-2020 04:48PM

hmmm wrote: »

The vaccine trials have a 100% survival rate. The 94/95% statistic is the reduction in the number of people who get Covid when vaccinated.

Your choice in the next 6 months will probably be a vaccine which is tested and prevents most serious disease, or take your chances with a new virus with unknown side effects which will kill some people. Vaccine hesitancy will also slow down how quickly we can lift restrictions.

Considering the fact that NPHET have said that vaccines are merely a compliment to other measures and social distancing and masks are going to still be prevalent, much of my optimism for vaccines has been stifled

Maxpfizer · 18-11-2020 04:59PM

hmmm wrote: »

The vaccine trials have a 100% survival rate. The 94/95% statistic is the reduction in the number of people who get Covid when vaccinated.

Your choice in the next 6 months will probably be a vaccine which is tested and prevents most serious disease, or take your chances with a new virus with unknown side effects which will kill some people. Vaccine hesitancy will also slow down how quickly we can lift restrictions.

Hmmm...

This is the kind of stuff that raises a bit of red flag for me.

If we had a vaccine from this back in February and we vaccinated ONLY the over 65s then we would have reduced Ireland's number of deaths by over 90%. Meaning we'd be sitting here after 9 months with a much smaller number of deaths, approximately 200.

Now that the vaccine is looking likely we are seemingly about to pivot to "well a new virus could come along and anyway hesitancy will slow down how quickly we can lift restrictions".

Surely the most effective course of action at this point will be to vaccinate anyone over the age of 65 followed by all healthcare workers and then for the rest of us it would be a more voluntary and far less necessary thing?

18-11-2020 04:59PM

Deleted User wrote: »

It was very interesting listening to Pat Kenny interviewing Stephen Donnelly our fabulous Health Minister live on radio this morning. Pat tried to pin Stephen Donnelly down as to WHY we are not using Antigen testing and Donnelly was positively squirming in his reply. He said HE believed in them and wanted them but NPHET (or as he put it our Public Health Executives) are not convinced that Antigen testing is the way to go right now!! It beggars belief .
Pat was positively spitting feathers and said it defies logic that we would not use Antigen testing at this stage to open back up the country.

WHY are NPHET making the decisions about running the entire country, the economy, business, mental health and people's wellbeing .... is this about ego.... is this about Tony Holohan and his arrogance and not wanting to back down at any cost? Because I am simply not getting it, especially if the EU have said Antigen testing is the way to go!

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1329046305495261190

He says that NPHET are cynical as to the actual efficacy of the antigen tests versus the claims by the manufacturers...so does that mean NPHET will demand more tests on the vaccine versus what Pfizer/Oxford or whatever actually claim in the same regard?? Now the manufacturers have to prove to Tony, the efficacy of the drugs and tests...This was not the case for PANDERMIX!

RobitTV · 18-11-2020 05:15PM

Why is Holohan being allowed to dictate government policy? rapid antigen testing is needed just in time for Christmas travel.

NPHET have some sort of vendetta against the travel and pub industry. FG and FF are truly pathetic, they listen day in and day out to his finger pointing nonsense. He has done nothing but sow division and create panic across the country.

He should resign.

rob316 · 18-11-2020 05:15PM

More and more sources saying many in the cabinet are fed up of NPHET and their grandstanding and commenting on policy before its even discussed. Good, take Tonys twitter page off him and no more TV spots to start with.

RobitTV · 18-11-2020 05:19PM

Reduce the hysterical NPHET televised broadcasts at 6pm to once a week and stop announcing the new case figures every single day!

BeefeaterHat · 18-11-2020 05:19PM

rob316 wrote: »

More and more sources saying many in the cabinet are fed up of NPHET and their grandstanding and commenting on policy before its even discussed. Good, take Tonys twitter page off him and no more TV spots to start with.

You need only look at his antics when he came back from leave. He barely had his coat off and suddenly the whole nation had to go from level 2 to 5. He does nothing but cause disruption.

the kelt · 18-11-2020 05:19PM

road_high wrote: »

Good enough for all of Europe but not our blessed Master St. Tony. Sweet jesus :rolleyes:

And no one will dare question!!

Sharon will share a few videos of young fellas out drinking in the street as evidence as to why we are still in lockdown, her ilk will jump on the bandwagon, Tony will get "increasingly concerned" again and our politicians will fall over themselves to try and change laws of the land to appease the Sharon brigade!!

Meanwhile reporters will ask Tony "how concerned is he really with the videos circulating of people drinking in the street?" Tony will reply saying "deeply concerned" and "the next 2 weeks are crucial"

And so on and so on without a single question about the antigen testing, the test and trace farce, the lack of icu capacity etc etc.

Ye know the type of stuff that should be answered!

road_high · 18-11-2020 05:22PM

RobitTV wrote: »

Why is Holohan being allowed to dictate government policy? rapid antigen testing is needed just in time for Christmas travel.

NPHET have some sort of vendetta against the travel and pub industry. FG and FF are truly pathetic, they listen day in and day out to his finger pointing nonsense. He has done nothing but sow division and create panic across the country.

He should resign.

He won’t resign but he should be sacked- reckon he has a lot of powerful friends in the media and will not hesitate to bring some of the political class down with him when challenged- clearly all afraid of this cretin

froog · 18-11-2020 05:33PM

BeefeaterHat wrote: »

You need only look at his antics when he came back from leave. He barely had his coat off and suddenly the whole nation had to go from level 2 to 5. He does nothing but cause disruption.

level 5 was warranted then. and indeed most agreed with it two weeks later. and it is working now, while the rest of europe is in trouble.

so what is the problem exactly?

road_high · 18-11-2020 05:35PM

froog wrote: »

level 5 was warranted then. and indeed most agreed with it two weeks later. and it is working now, while the rest of europe is in trouble.

so what is the problem exactly?

The 100s of thousands now out of work etc might be a problem but clearly not to your good self

brisan · 18-11-2020 05:37PM

Waylon Petite Shower wrote: »

Hi, I think that’s a little unfair on me to be honest. I have buckets of sympathy and empathy for anyone who is suffering due to the lockdown and so on but that doesn’t change the fact that on an overall level when viewing the economy that there are many sectors that are not impacted - pharma, manufacturing, tech, IT, construction, grocery retail and many others that are not badly hit - financial (accountants and so on), legal, retail with strong online presence, certain hospitality that relied on takeaway anyway) and so on.

When you compare with last recessions this is quite a different picture. There is also the key point that many of the current jobs are paused not lost - ok current income is down but once things open up the majority of folks are straight back to work.

Lockdowns might be better for some than others (I would include myself in that) but I still don’t like them and long for being able to get back to normal, meet friends, eat in a restaurant, bring my toddler places and so on but there is no value in doing any of this when it’s unsafe which most folks feel it is at the moment.

Redundancies this year are already at twice last years level
Some businesses will not survive without EWSS
There will be economic scarring due to the recession
People have lost their jobs and more will
That is beyond doubt
Commercial rents will go unpaid
Either the tenant pays or the landlord defaults on any loan leveraged on the property

caveat emptor · 18-11-2020 05:44PM

brisan wrote: »

Redundancies this year are already at twice last years level
Some businesses will not survive without EWSS
There will be economic scarring due to the recession
People have lost their jobs and more will
That is beyond doubt
Commercial rents will go unpaid
Either the tenant pays or the landlord defaults on any loan leveraged on the property

What about mortgage breaks? Would that work? Property investment was alway rewarding and also extremely risky. Remember 2009 and 2010.

Goldengirl · 18-11-2020 05:48PM

Thierry12 wrote: »

You decided to post that rubbish

Not me

I didn't , you did !
Do you want me to direct you to the post where you said on that " a nursing friend told you about a 93 year old woman dying in her nursing home after getting the flu vaccine " , directly lifted from an antivaxx site in UK which has been proven to be posting misinformation and is taken down. Exact same story circulating there .
So don't expect anyone to trust anything you post if you are spreading drivel like that ..

hmmm · 18-11-2020 05:50PM

Maxpfizer wrote: »

Surely the most effective course of action at this point will be to vaccinate anyone over the age of 65 followed by all healthcare workers and then for the rest of us it would be a more voluntary and far less necessary thing?

Sure. There's two issues I can think of:

1. The vaccines have spectacular effectiveness, but they are not quite 100%. If you vaccinated all the vulnerable with the Pfizer vaccine, 5% could still get disease. In the Pfizer trial 10 in the vaccine group got Covid including 1 serious case. Multiply that over a large vulnerable population and you could still have a problem. We need to stop the virus circulating as much as possible, which will mean herd immunity and mass vaccinations.
2. My previous point. Why take your chances with Covid when you could take a vaccine. I don't understand how people are making a risk judgement which leads them to think a "natural" infection will be safer than a vaccine which replicates a small part of the virus and has been tested for safety. It tells me that people have been sold complete misinformation if they think getting the virus is the safer route.

BeefeaterHat · 18-11-2020 05:58PM

road_high wrote: »

The 100s of thousands now out of work etc might be a problem but clearly not to your good self

Small potatoes, he's alright so what else matters? 20% unemployment and 45% youth unemployment and some people can't see what the problem is.

kippy · 18-11-2020 05:59PM

BeefeaterHat wrote: »

Considering the fact that NPHET have said that vaccines are merely a compliment to other measures and social distancing and masks are going to still be prevalent, much of my optimism for vaccines has been stifled

Indeed. The thing is the Vaccine isn't a day zero cure for the issue. It will have to be procured, distributed and administered.This won't all happen on the same day 1.
So it should really go without saying till a specific percentage of the population of the vaccinne, everyone should continue to observe the general restrictions in place (mask wearing, physical distancing etc)

IE - a vaccine is a compliment to the other measures in place until enough of the population have been vacinated......

This again, should be obvious.

FintanMcluskey · 18-11-2020 06:02PM

froog wrote: »

level 5 was warranted then. and indeed most agreed with it two weeks later. and it is working now, while the rest of europe is in trouble.

so what is the problem exactly?

Europe’s youngest population, on an island, with less than 1/10th the population of Italy, has had, for over 8 months, Europe’s most unsocial and economically catastrophic policy to combat a disease that primarily effects the elderly.

That’s the problem

rob316 · 18-11-2020 06:03PM

Level 3 was working, what your seen now is Level 5 doesn't have the desired effect on the numbers because they refused to listen to the science. Sage in the UK that have actual scientists on their panel and is headed by a SCIENTIST not a GP said closing non essential retail wont have much effect and schools were a huge cause of clusters.

BeefeaterHat · 18-11-2020 06:04PM

kippy wrote: »

Indeed. The thing is the Vaccine isn't a day zero cure for the issue. It will have to be procured, distributed and administered.This won't all happen on the same day 1.
So it should really go without saying till a specific percentage of the population of the vaccinne, everyone should continue to observe the general restrictions in place (mask wearing, physical distancing etc)

IE - a vaccine is a compliment to the other measures in place until enough of the population have been vacinated......

This again, should be obvious.

How long is that going to take? Japan are planning to have everyone vaccinated by the summer, what's our timescale looking like or is it going to be a Laurel and Hardy job?

kippy · 18-11-2020 06:05PM

BeefeaterHat wrote: »

How long is that going to take? Japan are planning to have everyone vaccinated by the summer, what's our timescale looking like or is it going to be a Laurel and Hardy job?

I don't know how long it's going to take, I was just pointing out it wasn't going to happen in one day.......which is why the commentary on it being a compliment to existing regulations.

There wont be a country in the world that role out a vacine in one day, or one week I'd suggest.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings