Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings

road_high · 18-11-2020 10:34AM

brisan wrote: »

No but I think Tony hoped they would

Holohan lives in cloud cuckoo land- surrounded by cronies and yes people all on vast secure salaries. I’d imagine he genuinely did think this was going to be a repeat of March to June with him as the anointed hero part deux

average_runner · 18-11-2020 10:36AM

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Hope so. But where do you draw the line then if they do? All other visitor attractions in the country are similarly suffering. Sports clubs and charities too. I know most don't have to spend half a million each month to feed animals, but still it will add up. Bail out Dublin Zoo and you'll have thousands of other affected organisations lined up for same.

We just got to see what happens. France, England etc are in lockdown also.

I don't know what the solution is, but a fully open country is not the answer.

Longing · 18-11-2020 10:37AM

Anything below level 5 we will be looking at over 1000 cases a day after restrictions are eased after two weeks going on the numbers we are seeing daily now. Remember we are only back to our daily numbers we had at the end of September. But has I alluded to last Friday the decrease has stagnated, Government and NHPET will be taking this into account anyways I hope am wrong because Christmas is not the same without seeing family on the day.

road_high · 18-11-2020 10:38AM

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Hope so. But where do you draw the line then if they do? All other visitor attractions in the country are similarly suffering. Sports clubs and charities too. I know most don't have to spend half a million each month to feed animals, but still it will add up. Bail out Dublin Zoo and you'll have thousands of other affected organisations lined up for same.

The government created all that with their endless pandering to Nphet on far over reaching consequences- businesses they forcibly shut must be absolutely supported and are entitled to same- a mess entirely of their own making. If they weren’t too busy on twitter virtue signalling then it would have been obvious

brisan · 18-11-2020 10:39AM

MelbourneMan wrote: »

I dont pick on this posting specifically, but it encompasses several of the points that I find quite objectionable from a certain cohort here.

I shall take them in turn:
- no one likes negativity. But Covid 19 is fundamentally bad, or negative news. In a cold analysis, as such specialists are charged to do, then of course it will be negative. But if negative is correct, and in this case unfortunately, it is, then negative the message must be. They are not giving a pep talk to boy scouts.
- NPHET, let alone Dr. Holohan alone, do not dictate. They provide expert technical guidance. A cabinet sub committee, and the cabinet determine all actions taken to manage the virus. They are 100% responsible for the executive decisions they make.
- of course people are sick of the consequences of the restrictions. But that is no reason to jettison them or decide that NPHET is wrong. This is simply a childish attitude.
- there is no condescending punishment and reward bargain going on. This is a biased and warped impression coming from the point above. The childish response is aligned with seeing NPHET/Dr.Holohan/the govt, as a parent, headmaster, type figure. Which tells a lot about the state of mind of those seeing authority figures as such.
- your last statement is again the child stamping its foot because its not getting what it wants. The pain, financial difficulties, stress, and disruption, are fully appreciated. But that does not mean they can just be swept away because people dont like the taste of the medicine.

Much of Ireland needs to grow up and respond to its government and specialist in an appropriate manner. We would be out of the crisis all the faster and with lower overall cost, financial and societal, if they did so.

The bit in bold is what I have an issue with
The nursing homes are suffering because of NPHETs expert technical guidance

18-11-2020 10:39AM

kippy wrote: »

Are the majority complying with the regulation or not - that is the question. Not "why are they complying" - "are they happy to be complying?"

If the majority weren't complying surely, you'd see more fines being handed out, more enforcement measures?

It's just a narrative that some people are intent on putting out with zero factual backup.

Stephen Donnelly has admitted the appetite for lockdown is no longer there...

He has accepted that people are breaking the restrictions and traffic is heavier than they’d like.

I doubt you are in a position to disagree with the minister?

average_runner · 18-11-2020 10:40AM

brisan wrote: »

If you let it get to the stage where you have more people in ICU you have lost the battle
Protect the nursing homes
Ask the elderly to cocoon and support them
Ask the rest of us to wear masks ,sanitise ,social distance and let retail and hospitality get back to level 2
Any Bar pub or restaurant breaking the rules ,close them for 90 days

Please explain how you will protect the nursing homes and elderly.
We don't have the garda numbers ensure pubs and restaurants behave and the courts don't back them anyhow.

For example, say I am a nurse at nursing home, we open up fully the virus numbers increases to 2000 a day. How do i know for sure I haven't picked it up in a shop, or my partner didn't pick it up working or my son didn't pick it up in a pub?

How will i know that I don't have the virus before I go to work or before I have to bring a parent to A&E, or do some house work for a parent that is too old to do it all on her own?

road_high · 18-11-2020 10:40AM

average_runner wrote: »

We just got to see what happens. France, England etc are in lockdown also.

I don't know what the solution is, but a fully open country is not the answer.

Like Nphet so- zero actual solutions bar shut the lot down- just not good enough anymore (going out on a limb here but safe to say you haven’t been directly financially effected)

average_runner · 18-11-2020 10:42AM

brisan wrote: »

The bit in bold is what I have an issue with
The nursing homes are suffering because of NPHETs expert technical guidance

Explain how? Alot of nursing homes are private businesses that have money to invest in their own protocols.

average_runner · 18-11-2020 10:43AM

road_high wrote: »

Like Nphet so- zero actual solutions bar shut the lot down- just not you’d enough anymore (going out on a limb here but safe to say you haven’t been directly financially effected)

Affected by love ones though which is a lot worst than any financial lost.
I don't believe lockdown is the answer but we need to figure out what is.

Micky 32 · 18-11-2020 10:43AM

kippy wrote: »

Do you really think there is a large cohort of people actually happy that we have to live life with numerous restrictions?
Seriously, is that the impression you have?
There might be people who died to issues with social contact anyway, are happier to work from home/limit contact but I can assure you they are not happy overall with the overall package of restrictions or the anxiety that might come from this.

Wrong again just like you’re deluded about people that you think are adhering to the 5km limit that’s imposed.

You obviously didn’t read my post correctly. Did i hit a nerve or something? I’m talking about people who have a lack of empathy toward people losing their jobs etc. Obsessed with the virus beating it like it’s some competition It’s quite a plaque in these threads.

Dublin zoo has a closure threat now. There’s a certain cohort on here “ but but the virus” they won’t give a shyte.

Stormyteacup · 18-11-2020 10:47AM

road_high wrote: »

The government created all that with their endless pandering to Nphet on far over reaching consequences- businesses they forcibly shut must be absolutely supported and are entitled to same- a mess entirely of their own making. If they weren’t too busy on twitter virtue signalling then it would have been obvious

Absolutely, I just think people don't realise how much will need to be spent in order for them to enjoy the things they did before when we eventually emerge from our cocoon.

And when a proportion of businesses collapse as they inevitably have and will continue to do - less competition will drive up prices and that will hit people in the pocket, along with a higher VAT rate on non-essentials. That's without subtle salary deductions that while mightn't be income tax, will be felt regardless.

road_high · 18-11-2020 10:50AM

average_runner wrote: »

Affected by love ones though which is a lot worst than any financial lost.
I don't believe lockdown is the answer but we need to figure out what is.

You said a “fully open country is not the answer”. What else can one conclude then other than you do believe lockdowns are the answer as they are the exact same thing!

Ginger n Lemon · 18-11-2020 10:50AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Stephen Donnelly has admitted the appetite for lockdown is no longer there...

He has accepted that people are breaking the restrictions and traffic is heavier than they’d like.

I doubt you are in a position to disagree with the minister?

Yes. People have spoken through their actions.

Time to move on from these silly yoyo lockdowns.

brisan · 18-11-2020 10:51AM

Waylon Petite Shower wrote: »

The economy is not in near as bad a situation as some of those posting in this thread believe or would like others to believe. Especially now with a vaccine on the horizon and so on - as the other poster said we will power out of any mini-recession created by covid which let’s face it is only hitting certain sections of our economy.

Now that is not to belittle those that it is hitting at all, there is a lot of people going through hardship but it is only some people, there is a lot of money in people’s pockets and when we can safely get back to normal demand for everything will be there as it was early in 2020.

Compassion and empathy are not your strong points
So 600,000 who work in retail ,tourism and hospitality are just certain sections of society
Christ on a bike ,I hope you never get elected to power

AssetBacked2 · 18-11-2020 10:57AM

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/policing-a-ban-on-street-drinking-a-non-runner-say-garda%C3%AD-1.4411884

The Gardaí turning the knife on the knee-jerk, curtain-twitcher calls to ban takeaway pints (which is exactly what it was), to heap further embarrassment on the government and the covhysterics.

I particularly enjoyed this quote;

One senior officer said he was “stunned” at what he saw as “such a knee-jerk reaction” to a video of revellers on Dublin’s South William Street at the weekend.

“It’s a sad day when the Government is deciding it should make a huge change to the policing strategy so far based on a video on Twitter rather than even consulting with the depot,” he said, the latter a reference to Garda Headquarters.

Penfailed · 18-11-2020 11:03AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We are not living, we are surviving.

You're either living or you are dead.

brisan · 18-11-2020 11:05AM

JRant wrote: »

I did indeed hear him. He categorically stated taxes would not be increased and the next words out of his mouth were they would have to look a new revenue streams.

There's a bill coming, the likes of which we have never seen before. It will soften the cough of even the most hardened restricters.

Anyone with property ,a pension fund or large savings should be worried
One thing is certain ,we will not see a penny of Apples 13 billion

Mean Laqueefa · 18-11-2020 11:06AM

Penfailed wrote: »

You're either living or you are dead.

everything either is or isn't a potato ! but you know already that was not his point

j@utis · 18-11-2020 11:07AM

Dempo1 wrote: »

We're not going to see reduction in level 5, not difficult to comprehend, if gov reduce levels (which I believe were excessive), there will be absolute chaos in retail etc

There's gonna a complete mayhem when shops reopen, I work in grocery retail and here about it everyday from the customers. People are "starved" of xmas shopping experience. Regardless, I'm delighted to see that this lockdown has been a flop.

j@utis · 18-11-2020 11:09AM

brisan wrote: »

Anyone with property ,a pension fund or large savings should be worried
One thing is certain ,we will not see a penny of Apples 13 billion

Yep, indeed, direct taxes won't be increased [it'll look very good on the news] but indirect taxation will sting everyone having any sort of assets.

18-11-2020 11:11AM

brisan wrote: »

Compassion and empathy are not your strong points
So 600,000 who work in retail ,tourism and hospitality are just certain sections of society
Christ on a bike ,I hope you never get elected to power

People don’t seem to realise how the economy works...

If those 600000 are out of work then they need state support.

People reduced to state support will likely be higher risk for eviction, defaulting on loans/mortgages etc.

Banks been forced to give out payment breaks and having customers defaulting will eventually lead to collapses.

And at least 4 of our banks have already announced losses and plans to cut lots of jobs.

Ironically, we actually are all “in it together “ when it comes to the economy.

18-11-2020 11:15AM

AssetBacked2 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/policing-a-ban-on-street-drinking-a-non-runner-say-garda%C3%AD-1.4411884

The Gardaí turning the knife on the knee-jerk, curtain-twitcher calls to ban takeaway pints (which is exactly what it was), to heap further embarrassment on the government and the covhysterics.

I particularly enjoyed this quote;

I had to laugh at donnelly on prime time saying "WE came to an agreement that it was not enforceable but we want the guards to let us know if they need more enforcement powers and laws".

Great to see him getting told to go back home and press his suit again by the gardai. he was laughed at, NO we don't WANT more unenforceable farcical knee jerk laws ... you were only telling people to drink outside and make an xmas winter experience of it some weeks ago FFS!! you'll get what you want but be wary that you actually want what you get stephen.

Elmer Blooker · 18-11-2020 11:17AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Stephen Donnelly has admitted the appetite for lockdown is no longer there...

He has accepted that people are breaking the restrictions and traffic is heavier than they’d like.

So Minister it appears that people no longer fear this 'deadly virus'.

brisan · 18-11-2020 11:19AM

Waylon Petite Shower wrote: »

It has been stated many many times that taxes won't be increased, we will be spending our way out of any covid related issues and wont be using austerity.

The national debt never gets repaid, the latest borrowings just get added to it and we continue to chip away at repaying as we always do and so on, these borrowings are not even costing any interest (negative interest in some cases).

It is good to hear opinions from both sides of course and to have a healthy debate about it though but these are my opinions based on my own reading up on things and personal (anecdotal) experiences on how people I know are being affected (or not in pretty much every case).

I would stand by my post yesterday, this is nothing near as bad as the 2008 recession as large parts of the economy are not being hit by covid, there is lots of money in many people's pockets and once we have a vaccine and its safe to reopen people will spend, business will get back on track and so on. We will be over this all quite quickly (that is once we have a vaccine as opening up without one is not feasible).

Central Banks the world over do not agree with you but I hope you are right

Don't Chute! · 18-11-2020 11:20AM

Penfailed wrote: »

You're either living or you are dead.

And if you’re dead it’s “from” Covid, right? No exceptions.

road_high · 18-11-2020 11:21AM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Yes. People have spoken through their actions.

Time to move on from these silly yoyo lockdowns.

Unfortunately Nphet and the cowardly government are hooked on them, as are many cushioned members of the public.

I'm fed up being told by government and authorities telling me what i can and can't do- enough is enough now- kindly fcuk off!!

brisan · 18-11-2020 11:21AM

lemonTrees wrote: »

Iv'e been stopped 3 times this week alone in D14 area by the Gardai at checkpoints.

In D3 and D5 no checkpoints
Drove from Killester to Crumlin and back at 3 in the day and no sign of checkpoints

Don't Chute! · 18-11-2020 11:23AM

average_runner wrote: »

We just got to see what happens. France, England etc are in lockdown also.

I don't know what the solution is, but a fully open country is not the answer.

But, but I thought it was only the stupid paddies who are unable to control themselves? According to you anyway numerous times

road_high · 18-11-2020 11:23AM

brisan wrote: »

In D3 and D5 no checkpoints
Drove from Killester to Crumlin and back at 3 in the day and no sign of checkpoints

Good- waste of time and resources

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings