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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Comments

  • #8852
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,203 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Some_Person wrote: »
    What about the people sick and dying with other illnesses that can't get treatment because of these insane lockdowns?
    Who is sick and dying and can't get treatment?

    If our hospitals were full of Covid patients like some are in the rest of world at the moment, there'd be no treatments for anyone.

    https://twitter.com/itosettiMD_MBA/status/1328735769339498497


  • #8853
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    The number of people sick, hospitalised and dead are growing rapidly across the northern hemisphere by the day.

    You are living with it - unless you're communicating from the afterlife.

    Are you?

    The death toll is tiny and you know it.

    We are not living, we are surviving.


  • #8854
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Captain_Crash wrote: »
    I’m on the phone here and not in a position to research this (I.e, lying on the sofa and not arsed)... but isn’t this the very vaccine TH of all people pushed the government to include a protection against indemnity??

    100% PLUS the pandermix vaccine they used was not even for sale or passed in the USA and STILL they used it, knowing well the active ingredient was not present in the Vaccine available in Canada for instance. The HSE got a letter from the swedes , danes etc strongly urging them to cease use of the drug...and still!! the delayed and told GP's to use surplus pandermix again the following Flu season because LIKE THIS YEAR, Ireland has run out of standard NON H1N1 Flu jabs.

    and yes they signed an indemnity meaning us the tax payer will foo the bill..gotta love the yanks.. This was all a twin page spread in the INDO a few years back, I nearly fell of my chair reading it//now it all makes sense, the utter contempt and ineptitude..


  • #8855
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,149 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    hmmm wrote: »
    Who is sick and dying and can't get treatment?

    If our hospitals were full of Covid patients like some are in the rest of world at the moment, there'd be no treatments for anyone.

    https://twitter.com/itosettiMD_MBA/status/1328735769339498497

    Precisely the situation we need to avoid.

    How are those here who keep preaching irresponsibility and "freedom" going to feel if that's our critical care doctors?

    Some would go silent pretty quick!


  • #8856
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    hmmm wrote: »
    The government will need to keep borrowing to keep up the PUP and more importantly for businesses the EWSS wage supports. It's the only way. We have an end point now so we know that it won't break the bank.

    Fauci in the US thinks the US population will all have a vaccine available in April/May. I'm not sure Europe will meet the same timetable but might not be far off - a lot depends on whether the Astra Zeneca and J&J vaccines also succeed.

    Either way, we know the end of this is the vaccine. If people won't take the vaccine and promote not taking it they are going to contribute to extending restrictions. This thread is supposedly about relaxing restrictions, instead it seems to be about doing everything possible to extend them.

    If there is a large proportion of people who refuse the vaccine what does that tell you? A large amount people think this has all been either grossly exaggerated or is a hoax.

    The people who won't get the vaccine don't care about catching or spreading covid so they will reopen their businnesses, have their events, stop wearing masks, no longer socially distance and will live a normal whilst those that get the vaccine will stay working from home, wearing masks, social distancing etc.

    If the majority get the vaccine which is probably what will happen then life will go back to normal. How do I know this well nearly everyone who uses public transport and goes to shops wears a mask I would it is at least 95% compliance. So if 95% of people will happily wear a mask then it's clear 95% will take a vaccine.

    If more people thought covid was a hoax or exaggerated or wouldn't buy into govt. measures then you'd get way less mask compliance. So my belief is that vaccine take up will be the same as mask compliance ie. 95% unless something majorly changes between and now and mass vaccine rollout.


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  • #8857
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    on the controversial H1N1 vaccine, Tony H said "Vaccination is the most important tool we have to protect the Irish population,"

    and yet today amidst the worst Pandemic in recent memory, it's only a "compliment" to other measures...really??? loving the power eh Tony!


  • #8858
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,066 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Without the lockdowns you have more cases, more cases means more hospitalisations, more hospitalisations means capacity is maxed out and then you are in to the Italian situation of doctors deciding who lives and dies.

    No room then for any other illnesses. Just one.

    The lockdowns maintain the bandwidth. Without them there is none.

    This is the whole reason for the mitigation measures.

    While an easing of restrictions may slow any decline, or even lead to increases, I don't think there has been anything that suggests easing level 5 restrictions will suddenly see our hospital capacity maxed out and doctors deciding who lives and dies.

    Can you please post the source for your assertion?


  • #8859
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,077 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    road_high wrote: »
    Miriam ocallaghan was good tonight. In fairness she does ask a few hard questions and removes her emotions (Claire Byrne could learn something) from the discussion

    What did she ask?

    Worth watching back?


  • #8860
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,149 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    awec wrote: »
    While an easing of restrictions may slow any decline, or even lead to increases, I don't think there has been anything that suggests easing level 5 restrictions will suddenly see our hospital capacity maxed out and doctors deciding who lives and dies.

    Can you please post the source for your assertion?

    I never mentioned moving from level 5. I have already said we could maybe go back to level 3 once cases are down and maintain some control.

    Some seem to want to go further.

    We have one poster who wants people flocking to pubs.


  • #8861
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,203 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    GT89 wrote: »
    If there is a large proportion of people who refuse the vaccine what does that tell you? A large amount people think this has all been either grossly exaggerated or is a hoax.
    Firstly, a large proportion of the population has not refused the vaccine because it has not been offered to them. We've just issued 2 million flu vaccines, I don't think there'll be a problem with a Covid vaccine (certainly not with the alternative being to eventually probably get "naturally infected" and to prolong the pandemic).

    Secondly if a large proportion did turn it down, I would say it would largely be influenced by ill-informed scare-mongering. The same kind of thing a lot of people on here say is going on from NPHET.

    And thirdly, surveys have shown that your view that this is "grossly exaggerated or a hoax" is a view shared only by a very small part of the population. In reality, the majority of people surveyed tend to lean towards more restrictions and not less.


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  • #8862
    Multipass
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Multipass


    GT89 wrote: »
    If there is a large proportion of people who refuse the vaccine what does that tell you? A large amount people think this has all been either grossly exaggerated or is a hoax.

    The people who won't get the vaccine don't care about catching or spreading covid so they will reopen their businnesses, have their events, stop wearing masks, no longer socially distance and will live a normal whilst those that get the vaccine will stay working from home, wearing masks, social distancing etc.

    If the majority get the vaccine which is probably what will happen then life will go back to normal. How do I know this well nearly everyone who uses public transport and goes to shops wears a mask I would it is at least 95% compliance. So if 95% of people will happily wear a mask then it's clear 95% will take a vaccine.

    If more people thought covid was a hoax or exaggerated or wouldn't buy into govt. measures then you'd get way less mask compliance. So my belief is that vaccine take up will be the same as mask compliance ie. 95% unless something majorly changes between and now and mass vaccine rollout.

    Mask compliance is that high because of fear of stigma. 95% are not ‘happily’ wearing masks. Vaccine uptake will depend on how easy the HSE make it to get.


  • #8863
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    GT89 wrote: »
    If there is a large proportion of people who refuse the vaccine what does that tell you? A large amount people think this has all been either grossly exaggerated or is a hoax.

    The people who won't get the vaccine don't care about catching or spreading covid so they will reopen their businnesses, have their events, stop wearing masks, no longer socially distance and will live a normal whilst those that get the vaccine will stay working from home, wearing masks, social distancing etc.

    If the majority get the vaccine which is probably what will happen then life will go back to normal. How do I know this well nearly everyone who uses public transport and goes to shops wears a mask I would it is at least 95% compliance. So if 95% of people will happily wear a mask then it's clear 95% will take a vaccine.

    If more people thought covid was a hoax or exaggerated or wouldn't buy into govt. measures then you'd get way less mask compliance. So my belief is that vaccine take up will be the same as mask compliance ie. 95% unless something majorly changes between and now and mass vaccine rollout.

    If you don't wear a mask you can be refused entry to a supermarket, you're not allowed on the bus, train or even the dentists, not to mention generally going the doctors..the penalty is also a fine and or prison...

    So are you then saying all of the above will apply if you don't take the jab?
    What will happen is, many will choose the vaccine as is their right, added to this, many will have immunity without even having known they were exposed and if you doubt that you need to open a book and read maybe about spanish FLU, start with Deer Island military hospital experiment.

    Go now, fly fly agent starling...


  • #8864
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,066 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    I never mentioned moving from level 5. I have already said we could maybe go back to level 3 once cases are down and maintain some control.

    Some seem to want to go further.

    We have one poster who wants people flocking to pubs.

    I don't think anyone wants anyone flocking anywhere, I guess that is the source of your confusion.

    People want pubs open in a safe and controlled manner. Nobody is expecting there not to be limited capacity, strict seating measures and likely perspex screens everywhere.

    The best way to beat this virus is to be pragmatic, not dogmatic.


  • #8865
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,149 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    awec wrote: »
    I don't think anyone wants anyone flocking anywhere, I guess that is the source of your confusion.

    People want pubs open in a safe and controlled manner. Nobody is expecting there not to be limited capacity, strict seating measures and likely perspex screens everywhere.

    The best way to beat this virus is to be pragmatic, not dogmatic.

    I completely disagree.

    There is simply no way pubs (among other venues) can open.


  • #8866
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,066 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    I completely disagree.

    There is simply no way pubs (among other venues) can open.

    And what are you basing this assertion on?

    Can you provide the evidence that opening the pubs / restaurants / cafes leads to a spike in cases?


  • #8867
    Cork2021
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭Cork2021


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    I completely disagree.

    There is simply no way pubs (among other venues) can open.

    And you will dictate this???

    It’ll all eventually come to a head and publicans and restaurants will take legal action to get themselves open. It’s unjust to keep them closed for so long and yet still make them the scapegoats for rising infection rates.


  • #8868
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,149 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    awec wrote: »
    And what are you basing this assertion on?

    Can you provide the evidence that opening the pubs / restaurants / cafes leads to a spike in cases?

    Intuition.

    Not a chance for pubs. Partial opening for restaurants possibly.

    The problem with pubs does not need explaining - alcohol lowers inhibitions, people end up in close contact and Irish pubs, despite what is said here, are not the same as European drinking venues - they are much more intimate by their nature.

    It's just a non runner.

    I don't see pubs opening before next summer at the earliest. And you can remind me of that...


  • #8869
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    GT89 wrote: »
    If there is a large proportion of people who refuse the vaccine what does that tell you? A large amount people think this has all been either grossly exaggerated or is a hoax.

    The people who won't get the vaccine don't care about catching or spreading covid so they will reopen their businnesses, have their events, stop wearing masks, no longer socially distance and will live a normal whilst those that get the vaccine will stay working from home, wearing masks, social distancing etc.

    If the majority get the vaccine which is probably what will happen then life will go back to normal. How do I know this well nearly everyone who uses public transport and goes to shops wears a mask I would it is at least 95% compliance. So if 95% of people will happily wear a mask then it's clear 95% will take a vaccine.

    If more people thought covid was a hoax or exaggerated or wouldn't buy into govt. measures then you'd get way less mask compliance. So my belief is that vaccine take up will be the same as mask compliance ie. 95% unless something majorly changes between and now and mass vaccine rollout.

    It does not necessarily mean that, I'm 24 and I'll probably fancy my chances with the virus rather than a vaccine which there is no long term effects known about but it in no way diminshes how serious I think the virus is to elderly people, the massive excess deaths are testament to that and clear to anybody with eyes that it's not grossly over exaggerated


  • #8870
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    hmmm wrote: »
    Firstly, a large proportion of the population has not refused the vaccine because it has not been offered to them. We've just issued 2 million flu vaccines, I don't think there'll be a problem with a Covid vaccine (certainly not with the alternative being to eventually probably get "naturally infected" and to prolong the pandemic).

    Secondly if a large proportion did turn it down, I would say it would largely be influenced by ill-informed scare-mongering. The same kind of thing a lot of people on here say is going on from NPHET.

    And thirdly, surveys have shown that your view that this is "grossly exaggerated or a hoax" is a view shared only by a very small part of the population. In reality, the majority of people surveyed tend to lean towards more restrictions and not less.

    Exactly my point. Once the vaccine becomes available the will be a huge demand and a huge uptake meaning life will return to normal.

    I think the health effects of covid are grossly exaggerated myself but I am not deluded and I accept that my view is very much in the minority.

    Personally if I have the choice and can continue to work and go back how my life was in 2019 going on holidays twice a year, going for nights out every so often and going to matches and concerts I won't get the vaccine if I can't do those without a vaccine I will get it reluctantly.


  • #8871
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,870 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    awec wrote: »
    And what are you basing this assertion on?

    Can you provide the evidence that opening the pubs / restaurants / cafes leads to a spike in cases?

    Look this thing is a religion to these people. It’s not about actual evidence it’s beliefs based on their own personal bias and piety. Similar to how the temperance movement used to operate


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  • #8872
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,149 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    road_high wrote: »
    Look this thing is a religion to these people. It’s not about actual evidence it’s beliefs based on their own personal bias and piety. Similar to how the temperance movement used to operate

    You guys have been saying the same thing since March, the very beginning.

    Always wrong, like all fact free belief systems ;)


  • #8873
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,870 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    You guys have been saying the same thing since March, the very beginning.

    Always wrong, like all fact free belief systems ;)

    What have “we been saying” exactly and what has been proven wrong?


  • #8874
    Mean Laqueefa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 712 ✭✭✭Mean Laqueefa


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    I completely disagree.

    There is simply no way pubs (among other venues) can open.

    Ive played golf everyday (seriously) since April 16th , course on Sunday and yesterday had like 45-50 people all healthy as a butchers dog playing at 9am alspoke to a few all said they need out of the house , management leaves gates open for people to play due to the mental aspect of it.. Ive stopped watching news with misery, no more newspapers, limited seeing family (i work in a school and my wife's a nurse and daughter in playschool) all allowed.


    ive yet to me meet any idiot following these stupid lies.


    Life is too short for what you believe


  • #8875
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,203 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    awec wrote: »
    And what are you basing this assertion on?

    Can you provide the evidence that opening the pubs / restaurants / cafes leads to a spike in cases?
    We know that the superspreading events happen in places which are indoors, poorly ventilated and usually with people speaking loudly or shouting. There has been multiple examples worldwide of pubs, restaurants and cafes being sources of mass cases - e.g.
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40058144.html
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-college-students-on-a-break-and-middle-aged-people-in-rural-pub-linked-to-large-clusters-1.4369322
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-seventy-cases-in-cork-traced-to-local-pubs-and-restaurants-in-recent-weeks-1.4366678

    I agree with Kermit. Until we get the virus numbers back down to very low levels, it is difficult to see how the government will allow pubs and restaurants to reopen without us having to go back into lockdown a few weeks or short few months later.

    The good news is that the vaccines will become available probably in January. As we vaccinate more people, the supply of humans for Covid to infect will decrease which should allow us open up more.


  • #8876
    AssetBacked2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 232 ✭✭AssetBacked2


    awec wrote: »
    I don't think anyone wants anyone flocking anywhere, I guess that is the source of your confusion.

    People want pubs open in a safe and controlled manner. Nobody is expecting there not to be limited capacity, strict seating measures and likely perspex screens everywhere.

    The best way to beat this virus is to be pragmatic, not dogmatic.

    The best way to beat the virus is to protect the vulnerable (the OAPs). Until people accept the data that shows there is only a health crisis for this age group, then we cannot have a pragmatic discussion on our restrictions.


  • #8877
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,870 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Mean Laqueefa wrote: »
    Ive played golf everyday (seriously) since April 16th , course on Sunday and yesterday had like 45-50 people all healthy as a butchers dog playing at 9am alspoke to a few all said they need out of the house , management leaves gates open for people to play due to the mental aspect of it.. Ive stopped watching news with misery, no more newspapers, limited seeing family (i work in a school and my wife's a nurse and daughter in playschool) all allowed.


    ive yet to me meet any idiot following these stupid lies.


    Life is too short for what you believe

    It is indeed. Now if only these fanatics would go away and live their own lives as per their own set of pious believes. The trouble comes of course with all fanatics when they try enforce their dogma on the rest of us


  • #8878
    Micky 32
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,627 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    You guys have been saying the same thing since March, the very beginning.

    Always wrong, like all fact free belief systems ;)


    I think the problem is not what’s right or wrong it’s just the lack of empathy and emotion people lack while drooling at the mouth when lockdowns are enforced. The pandemic has really exposed some cold hearted horrible people out there.


  • #8879
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,149 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    road_high wrote: »
    What have “we been saying” exactly and what has been proven wrong?

    You think the world is against you. That there are people wanting to restrict how you go about your day for some undefined reason.

    Where should we start?

    - over by May, - over by summer, - over by autumn, - over by winter...

    We are still living with restrictions along with most of the rest of the northern hemisphere again because we are in a pandemic.

    Most of us understood or assumed this was a long term problem back in March, some here thought and still think it's a short term blip.

    Unfortunately it isn't.


  • #8880
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,149 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Mean Laqueefa wrote: »
    Ive played golf everyday (seriously) since April 16th , course on Sunday and yesterday had like 45-50 people all healthy as a butchers dog playing at 9am alspoke to a few all said they need out of the house , management leaves gates open for people to play due to the mental aspect of it..

    Nice. It's important to stay active :)


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  • #8881
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    road_high wrote: »
    Look this thing is a religion to these people. It’s not about actual evidence it’s beliefs based on their own personal bias and piety. Similar to how the temperance movement used to operate

    Very true Ile give you an example. I work in a supermarket since the "second wave" began I've seen more and more customers wearing gloves in addition to masks even though it has been said numerous times by the experts that wearing gloves do nothing to protect against covid.

    Back in the first lockdown I would say about 80% of customers and staff in supermarkets were wearing gloves when the first lockdown started to ease nearly everyone ditched the gloves now there are some who have gone back to wearing gloves not the majority but some have gone back to doing it even though they have been proven to be useless.


This discussion has been closed.
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