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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Comments

  • #8822
    Micky 32
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,627 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    I see Stephen Donnelly has admitted there is “ No appetite to extend the level 5 restrictions”

    Mr Donnelly said the "clear intention is that Level 5 will end at the end of November.”

    "We're exiting Level 5 at the start of December. You can never say never on anything, but there is no appetite whatsoever to extend Level 5 past six weeks.”


    he said “it is clear that people have become fatigued.
    Large groups gathering to drink outside and higher levels of traffic on the roads are indications of this”, he said.


    The higher levels of traffic are certainly evident.


  • #8823
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,870 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    RobitTV wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/BanoStephen/status/1325788827844308993

    Holohan said as much last week on tv.


  • #8824
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,870 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Micky 32 wrote: »
    I see Stephen Donnelly has admitted there is “ No appetite to extend the level 5 restrictions”

    Mr Donnelly said the "clear intention is that Level 5 will end at the end of November.

    "We're exiting Level 5 at the start of December. You can never say never on anything, but there is no appetite whatsoever to extend Level 5 past six weeks.


    he said it is clear that people have become fatigued.
    Large groups gathering to drink outside and higher levels of traffic on the roads are indications of this, he said.

    Does this mean they’re going to grow a pair and showdown with Nphet? I won’t hold my breath


  • #8825
    TRANQUILLO
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 453 ✭✭TRANQUILLO


    hmmm wrote: »
    Apparently by ignoring the virus and let it rip through the country, this will allow the economy to recover as everyone will flock to the pubs and restaurants. No, I don't understand it either.

    Asked to wear a mask to reduce the spread. No, don't want to do that.

    Encourage people to take the vaccine. Don't like that either.

    All I can see is contrarians doing more than anyone else to extend this as long as possible.

    whatever about your comment about the masks (i'll grant you the concession but i disagree), the reticence to take a rushed vaccine is a perfectly valid position to hold and its reductive to refer to that stance as contrarian.


  • #8826
    appledrop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,666 ✭✭✭appledrop


    Micky 32 wrote: »
    I see Stephen Donnelly has admitted there is “ No appetite to extend the level 5 restrictions”

    Mr Donnelly said the "clear intention is that Level 5 will end at the end of November.”

    "We're exiting Level 5 at the start of December. You can never say never on anything, but there is no appetite whatsoever to extend Level 5 past six weeks.”


    he said “it is clear that people have become fatigued.
    Large groups gathering to drink outside and higher levels of traffic on the roads are indications of this”, he said.


    The higher levels of traffic are certainly evident.

    Finally someone talking a bit of sense. We were never going to get numbers down to levels in previous lockdown when over 1 million people on move everyday in education setting. Wtf did they expect. Gob****es.

    If they want schools to stay open thats no problem but trade off has to be that numbers will never be rock bottom + 6 weeks of Level 5 is enough.

    Great article in Irish Times today highlighting how its spreading in schools. One child tested positive + only some of primary class classed as 'close contacts'

    However another child developed symptoms + linked with GP for test + tested positive. However as not classed as 'close contacts' HSE refused to count it as school transmission + instead classed at community transmission. Thats how numbers of 'school transmission' are a joke.

    I also know of another case where 3 teachers not classed as close contacts by HSE all got tested by own GP all positive.

    Every single ' community transmission needs to be examined bacuse I'm telling you its not all coming from parties + funerals like Tony is trying to tell you.


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  • #8827
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,203 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    TRANQUILLO wrote: »
    whatever about your comment about the masks (i'll grant you the concession but i disagree), the reticence to take a rushed vaccine is a perfectly valid position to hold and its reductive to refer to that stance as contrarian.
    Anyone who has looked at the vaccine development process properly, and not just based on repeating words like "rushed vaccine", can see that the development process for the vaccine has been shortened by running multiple phases in parallel. There's been no change in the safety requirements.

    Instead of waiting for a few years after the trials are finished to sign contracts for manufacturing, they've set up the manufacturing capability while the trials are underway. Scaling up manufacturing has taken months and not the usual years. The regulators have been reviewing the data as it arrives, and not waiting until after the trials finished. Phase 1 trials were started soon after the vaccines were developed, and not with the usual long delay to get funding. Phase 3 trials with 30,000 participants have started immediately after the finish of the phase 1 and 2 trials, and not with the usual long delays there either.


  • #8828
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    kippy wrote: »
    So....what's the alternative? Give up and tell the entire country who have been following the restrictions to go back to 'normal'?

    I disagree in your outlook, it's still possible we get to less than 100 cases a day within two weeks.
    And that's not really the aim of any of these restrictions or practices within the bigger picture.

    Make an actual effort to live with Covid that doesn’t involve destroying the economy.

    We could have been open from May to September.

    When we had 1200 cases a day, deaths were still very low and hospitalisations still low.

    But once again we sh*t the bed and just locked down.

    Even the government appear snookered now. They know it is not working and public support is gone. The health minister has admitted as much.

    Lockdown fatigue is 100% their fault.


  • #8829
    Mr. Karate
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭Mr. Karate


    kippy wrote: »
    Jesus. More proof, if any was needed, of what a, hopefully small, minority are thinking.

    More proof that certain people would get into unmarked box cars if Leo and Co. said it was for the greater good.


  • #8830
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    hmmm wrote: »
    Apparently by ignoring the virus and let it rip through the country, this will allow the economy to recover as everyone will flock to the pubs and restaurants. No, I don't understand it either.

    Asked to wear a mask to reduce the spread. No, don't want to do that.

    Encourage people to take the vaccine. Don't like that either.

    All I can see is contrarians doing more than anyone else to extend this as long as possible.

    If the pubs were open, people would flock to them in huge numbers. Surely you can see that?

    We have people standing outside in the freezing cold drinking take away pints because they are desperate for a bit of normality.

    The economy would be much better off if we opened.


  • #8831
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,991 ✭✭✭growleaves


    hmmm wrote: »
    Apparently by ignoring the virus and let it rip through the country, this will allow the economy to recover as everyone will flock to the pubs and restaurants. No, I don't understand it either.

    Asked to wear a mask to reduce the spread. No, don't want to do that.

    Encourage people to take the vaccine. Don't like that either.

    All I can see is contrarians doing more than anyone else to extend this as long as possible.

    You yourself are hurting the cause of vaccine uptake by trying to link vaccines with coercive tactics, such as forcing people to disclose their medical status to third parties.

    Let go of some of your authoritarian impulses and anti-vaccination activists will have less gas in their tank.

    As for the economy, many (not me, but many others) would accept a compromise with less blanket restrictions, or less blunt application.

    When Stephen Donnelly says there is little appetite for L5 restrictions is he referring to a tiny minority on this thread? No, he means the country at large. So it goes beyond 'a few cranks'. Time to get real hmmm, politics is the art of the possible.


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  • #8832
    kippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,239 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Make an actual effort to live with Covid that doesn’t involve destroying the economy.

    We could have been open from May to September.

    When we had 1200 cases a day, deaths were still very low and hospitalisations still low.

    But once again we sh*t the bed and just locked down.

    Even the government appear snookered now. They know it is not working and public support is gone. The health minister has admitted as much.

    Lockdown fatigue is 100% their fault.

    Had we continued with that 1200 cases per day we would have been up on over 5000 per day now, maybe more, don't have a calculator at the minute..leading to more in hospital, more in ICU and ultimately more dead.

    Some College students, gaa players and fans and plenty more showed that they couldn't 'live with' the lessor restrictions in place at the time leading to those cases.

    If people want to live with Covid they have to live with whatever restrictions are in place at the time.


  • #8833
    RobitTV
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭RobitTV


    Some people would honestly sell their homes to the state and hand the keys over to them, all in the name of 'suppressing' the virus.


  • #8834
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,203 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If the pubs were open, people would flock to them in huge numbers. Surely you can see that?

    We have people standing outside in the freezing cold drinking take away pints because they are desperate for a bit of normality.

    The economy would be much better off if we opened.
    That is not the experience anywhere else in the world. Where the virus transmission is high, people stay away because they don't want themselves or their families to get sick. A relatively small number of young people standing on a street is not the same as the regular pub-goer going back to the pub as our hospitals become over-run.

    https://twitter.com/docjamesw/status/1328433601025695744


  • #8835
    kippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,239 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Mr. Karate wrote: »
    More proof that certain people would get into unmarked box cars if Leo and Co. said it was for the greater good.

    Yeah,. That's it alright.


  • #8836
    kippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,239 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    RobitTV wrote: »
    Some people would honestly sell their homes to the state and hand the keys over to them, all in the name of 'suppressing' the virus.

    Nah, they wouldn't.


  • #8837
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    TRANQUILLO wrote: »
    whatever about your comment about the masks (i'll grant you the concession but i disagree), the reticence to take a rushed vaccine is a perfectly valid position to hold and its reductive to refer to that stance as contrarian.

    this and also 1000% last week a young man who developed narcolepsy (1 of about 100 teenagers) from pandermix, was given an undisclosed settlement on the court steps by the HSE, why?? because they never told him the much lauded Vaccine, carried ten times the risk of this illness, where they to use another type, they'd have been fine. worse again, the HSE knew it was not tested on young teenager's and children.. and they still pressed ahead with it as it was in surplus.

    So if we then by the same rationale, get the rushed or most rushed yellow pack version, we should all shrug our shoulders and say, ahh but we put our faith in Mr. Donnelly!! not a hope of me taking a vaccine.


  • #8838
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,870 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    RobitTV wrote: »
    Some people would honestly sell their homes to the state and hand the keys over to them, all in the name of 'suppressing' the virus.

    No they wouldn’t - but they’d make sure others would have to if it meant they didn’t have to suffer. Pretty much the entire basis of these “lockdowns”


  • #8839
    BeefeaterHat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 547 ✭✭✭BeefeaterHat


    hmmm wrote: »
    Apparently by ignoring the virus and let it rip through the country, this will allow the economy to recover as everyone will flock to the pubs and restaurants. No, I don't understand it either.

    Asked to wear a mask to reduce the spread. No, don't want to do that.

    Encourage people to take the vaccine. Don't like that either.

    All I can see is contrarians doing more than anyone else to extend this as long as possible.

    In all fairness though, the most optimistic projections for a vaccine are mid-late 2021 by the time it's available to the general public. How is the current situation of lockdown, open up for a couple of months, lockdown rinse, repeat sustainable until then? There won't be a SME left in the country by the time a vaccine gets mass rollout.


  • #8840
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    hmmm wrote: »
    That is not the experience anywhere else in the world. Where the virus transmission is high, people stay away because they don't want themselves or their families to get sick. A relatively small number of young people standing on a street is not the same as the regular pub-goer going back to the pub as our hospitals become over-run.

    https://twitter.com/docjamesw/status/1328433601025695744

    Perhaps you missed the 5km queues when ikea opened?


  • #8841
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,150 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If the pubs were open, people would flock to them in huge numbers. Surely you can see that?

    I think you have answered your own question there.

    And that is precisely why pubs are closed.

    We are in the middle of a pandemic, you do understand that, right?


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  • #8842
    Captain_Crash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,003 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    rusty cole wrote: »
    this and also 1000% last week a young man who developed narcolepsy (1 of about 100 teenagers) from pandermix, was given an undisclosed settlement on the court steps by the HSE, why?? because they never told him the much lauded Vaccine, carried ten times the risk of this illness, where they to use another type, they'd have been fine. worse again, the HSE knew it was not tested on young teenager's and children.. and they still pressed ahead with it as it was in surplus.

    So if we then by the same rationale, get the rushed or most rushed yellow pack version, we should all shrug our shoulders and say, ahh but we put our faith in Mr. Donnelly!! not a hope of me taking a vaccine.

    I’m on the phone here and not in a position to research this (I.e, lying on the sofa and not arsed)... but isn’t this the very vaccine TH of all people pushed the government to include a protection against indemnity??


  • #8843
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,203 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    BeefeaterHat wrote: »
    In all fairness though, the most optimistic projections for a vaccine are mid-late 2021 by the time it's available to the general public. How is the current situation of lockdown, open up for a couple of months, lockdown rinse, repeat sustainable until then? There won't be a SME left in the country by the time a vaccine gets mass rollout.
    The government will need to keep borrowing to keep up the PUP and more importantly for businesses the EWSS wage supports. It's the only way. We have an end point now so we know that it won't break the bank.

    Fauci in the US thinks the US population will all have a vaccine available in April/May. I'm not sure Europe will meet the same timetable but might not be far off - a lot depends on whether the Astra Zeneca and J&J vaccines also succeed.

    Either way, we know the end of this is the vaccine. If people won't take the vaccine and promote not taking it they are going to contribute to extending restrictions. This thread is supposedly about relaxing restrictions, instead it seems to be about doing everything possible to extend them.


  • #8844
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    I think you have answered your own question there.

    And that is precisely why pubs are closed.

    We are in the middle of a pandemic, you do understand that, right?

    A pandemic that kills very few and makes very few actually sick though.

    No reason why we couldn’t have opened between May and September.

    No reason why we can’t live with this.


  • #8845
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,150 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Deleted User wrote: »
    A pandemic that kills very few and makes very few actually sick though.

    No reason why we couldn’t have opened between May and September.

    No reason why we can’t live with this.

    The number of people sick, hospitalised and dead are growing rapidly across the northern hemisphere by the day.

    You are living with it - unless you're communicating from the afterlife.

    Are you?


  • #8846
    BeefeaterHat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 547 ✭✭✭BeefeaterHat


    hmmm wrote: »
    The government will need to keep borrowing to keep up the PUP and more importantly for businesses the EWSS wage supports. It's the only way. We have an end point now so we know that it won't break the bank.

    Fauci in the US thinks the US population will all have a vaccine available in April/May. I'm not sure Europe will meet the same timetable but might not be far off - a lot depends on whether the Astra Zeneca and J&J vaccines also succeed.

    Either way, we know the end of this is the vaccine. If people won't take the vaccine and promote not taking it they are going to contribute to extending restrictions. This thread is supposedly about relaxing restrictions, instead it seems to be about doing everything possible to extend them.

    I'm a big advocate for vaccinations myself but with talk from members of government and NPHET that social distancing and mask wearing will be around even after a vaccine, they really don't inspire me with hope that the vaccines will be the quick and easy fix people have been led to believe.

    If large scale vaccinations aren't enough to end restrictions and social distancing, what is?


  • #8847
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,870 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Miriam ocallaghan was good tonight. In fairness she does ask a few hard questions and removes her emotions (Claire Byrne could learn something) from the discussion


  • #8848
    Some_Person
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭Some_Person


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    The number of people sick, hospitalised and dead are growing rapidly across the northern hemisphere by the day.

    You are living with it - unless you're communicating from the afterlife.

    Are you?


    What about the people sick and dying with other illnesses that can't get treatment because of these insane lockdowns?


  • #8849
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,870 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Some_Person wrote: »
    What about the people sick and dying with other illnesses that can't get treatment because of these insane lockdowns?

    Not trendy enough for the Covideratti I’m afraid.
    No twitter hashtags or social media likes in those


  • #8850
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,150 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Some_Person wrote: »
    What about the people sick and dying with other illnesses that can't get treatment because of these insane lockdowns?

    Without the lockdowns you have more cases, more cases means more hospitalisations, more hospitalisations means capacity is maxed out and then you are in to the Italian situation of doctors deciding who lives and dies.

    No room then for any other illnesses. Just one.

    The lockdowns maintain the bandwidth. Without them there is none.

    This is the whole reason for the mitigation measures.


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  • #8851
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,203 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Perhaps you missed the 5km queues when ikea opened?
    If you can't see the difference between wandering around what is effectively a giant warehouse while we have a pandemic under control, and sitting inside a pub for hours while an uncontrolled pandemic is raging, I'm not going to convince you of anything because we're not even on the same planet.


This discussion has been closed.
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