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Italy & Covid-19

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    #32
    NSAman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,388 ✭✭✭NSAman


    I was home last December. I remember the guy behind me on the plane back coughing his guts up. The lady in front of me when disembarking commented how bad his coughing was and that she felt queasy upon leaving the plane which I did also.

    7 days later, 7 days of being on the couch. High temps, inability to breath, coughing, changing my tee shirt three times a day.. doc called not influenza a or b.. mystified.

    Roll on 11 months later and symptoms that have lasted all summer to now. Doc says he thinks it was 19, has seen people back from wuhan in December with same symptoms even now. Could only have picked this up in Ireland in December ...


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    #33
    mohawk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,781 ✭✭✭mohawk


    j@utis wrote: »
    I'd say earlier. Many of my work colleagues and myself included were sick before last xmas and after it. I got the milder symptoms, I remember having absolute zero energy to the point that I wouldn't get out the bed in the morning, slight fever on and off but no dreaded cough. One of my coworkers was literally coughing his lungs out, at work of course, with everyone around him. I'm so glad we didn't know or care about covid back then, it saved us so much hassle (testing, quarantines, unpaid sick leave, etc).

    I got what I believed to be a cold last January, for weeks I had it. A cough that just didn’t let up, I started getting breathless going up stairs. I was wrecked after it. Everyone in work had something similar. I heard of quite a few older people suffering with pneumonia or breathing issues last Christmas. A couple of them ended up needing inhalers for breathing difficulties.

    If it was Covid should the hospitals not of been overrun last January?


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    #34
    lolokeogh
    Registered Users Posts: 325 ✭✭lolokeogh


    would it have stretched back to the world military game in wuhan
    9,308 athletes from 110 countries participated in the games..
    18 October 2019,some claim the were ill after it,and one irish lad also??
    Algeria (56)
    Albania (5)
    Angola (2)
    Armenia (15)
    Argentina (2)
    Azerbaijan (20)
    Austria (37)
    Brazil (329)
    Guatemala (13)
    Bahrain (69)
    Barbados (2)
    Belarus (95)
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    Botswana (15)
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    #35
    lemonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭lemonkey


    I'm 100% convinced it was here last December.

    Literally it felt like every 2nd person was sick.

    I myself had the worst flu/cough that I had ever gotten, lasted the full 2 weeks of my Christmas holidays. Was only better the day before going back to work, typical..

    My mother had a burning temperature that lasted almost 2 weeks.
    My Sister was sick for over a week.
    My daughter was in hospital St. Stephens day with pneumonia.
    Her god father had a burning temperature for 2 weeks. Back and forth to Shannon Doc, thought he was on the way out.

    Obviously, we all live in different house holds but funnily enough none of our partners got sick at all.


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    #36
    amadangomor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,148 ✭✭✭amadangomor


    There was a bad dose going around in December/January but it wasn't Covid-19 people. Totally coincidental.

    I had it in January and took me a few weeks to get over it, was dropping into bed exhausted when coming home for work the whole month.

    Not saying Covid-19 wasn't here in late January but if it was circulation widely we would have had the ICUs full and a high mortality rate in February instead of April/May


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    #37
    lolokeogh
    Registered Users Posts: 325 ✭✭lolokeogh


    lemonkey wrote: »
    I'm 100% convinced it was here last December.

    Literally it felt like every 2nd person was sick.

    I myself had the worst flu/cough that I had ever gotten, lasted the full 2 weeks of my Christmas holidays. Was only better the day before going back to work, typical..

    My mother had a burning temperature that lasted almost 2 weeks.
    My Sister was sick for over a week.
    My daughter was in hospital St. Stephens day with pneumonia.
    Her god father had a burning temperature for 2 weeks. Back and forth to Shannon Doc, thought he was on the way out.

    Obviously, we all live in different house holds but funnily enough none of our partners got sick at all.

    i am not,but i was convinced,we had everything you say above,and in december,infact loads had the same,but we all caught covid here in august,the whole family,and we had realy none of the symtoms like the december ilness,we had no taste or smell,and all realy odd things,unable to move from the bed with fatigue,at times i would have a feeling of grit in my eyes,breathing issues among loads of odd symtoms,and one od the oddest is some mornings you would wake up and feel like you can run 10 miles,and hour later in a heap in bed.i was ill i think august 25..had sweats but not warm,the next day more the same,the 3rd day i was realy weak and looked realy unwell,the 4/5th day i can not remember,i was in bed for the 2 days wiped,so what ever happened those 5 days it was like it drained my system of any goodness..skip on to today,my ledest daughter is back to work tomorrow on short hours as the fatigue with her is extreme,my partner has all sorts of weird aches and pains,my youngest daughter danced at a high level,between classes,workouts at home and practise at home she was doing on average 30 hours a week,she has not even tryed to get back at it yet..and me i have extreme fatigue,i will get a warning sign that im going to crash..my feet start getting a extreme burning sensation,then wallop man down.i also had skin burning sensation when i had covid,was like i was lying out in the sun and my arms and shoulder were burned


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    #38
    AssetBacked2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 232 ✭✭AssetBacked2


    lolokeogh wrote: »
    would it have stretched back to the world military game in wuhan
    9,308 athletes from 110 countries participated in the games..
    18 October 2019,some claim the were ill after it,and one irish lad also??
    Algeria (56)
    Albania (5)
    Angola (2)
    Armenia (15)
    Argentina (2)
    Azerbaijan (20)
    Austria (37)
    Brazil (329)
    Guatemala (13)
    Bahrain (69)
    Barbados (2)
    Belarus (95)
    Bosnia and Herzegovina (11)
    Belgium (51)
    Botswana (15)
    Bulgaria (21)
    Burkina Faso (3)
    Canada (104)
    Cameroon (55)
    Republic of the Congo (19)
    Cape Verde (4)
    Chile (32)
    Colombia (31)
    China (553)
    Croatia (11)
    Cyprus (8)
    Czech Republic (27)
    Chad (11)
    Democratic Republic of the Congo (26)
    Denmark (61)
    Djibouti (3)
    Dominican Republic (31)
    Ecuador (74)
    Egypt (83)
    Eritrea (3)
    Estonia (27)
    Swaziland (2)
    Finland (53)
    France (273)
    Germany (243)
    Gabon (9)
    Gambia (3)
    Greece (46)
    Guinea (14)
    Guyana (4)
    Hungary (56)
    India (54)
    Iran (90)
    Indonesia (46)
    Ireland (32)
    Italy (139)
    Jordan (5)
    Kazakhstan (62)
    Kenya (14)
    Kuwait (35)
    Lesotho (3)
    Latvia (32)
    Lebanon (7)
    Lithuania (56)
    Luxembourg (18)
    Morocco (24)
    Monaco (2)
    Mongolia (75)
    Montenegro (2)
    Mozambique (3)
    Myanmar (44)
    Macedonia (4)
    Namibia (3)
    Netherlands (89)
    Nepal (40)
    Niger (3)
    Nigeria (12)
    North Korea (156)
    Norway (28)
    Oman (63)
    Pakistan (19)
    State of Palestine (9)
    Peru (15)
    Poland (193)
    Portugal (9)
    Qatar (99)
    Romania (77)
    Russia (243)
    Rwanda (41)
    Saudi Arabia (41)
    Senegal (3)
    Serbia (41)
    Slovakia (14)
    Slovenia (32)
    Korea (172)
    Spain (111)
    Sri Lanka (73)
    Sweden (72)
    Switzerland (67)
    Syria (15)
    Tanzania (22)
    Thailand (55)
    Togo (3)
    Tunisia (17)
    Turkmenistan (4)
    Turkey (20)
    United Arab Emirates (27)
    United States (172)
    Uganda (5)
    Uzbekistan (50)
    Ukraine (87)
    Uruguay (27)
    Venezuela (84)
    Vietnam (32)
    Zambia (13)
    Zimbabwe (28)

    There was a military games in October, around the time the virus took off in China, with military representatives from world countries, including military rivals to China, in the same place that the virus originated?

    It would be quite a statement from the Chinese to demonstrate their biological warfare capabilities.


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    #39
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    But of course! :rolleyes: It's hard to keep any thread here on a serious verifiable course when CT are inserted into so many.


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    #40
    AssetBacked2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 232 ✭✭AssetBacked2


    It's a coincidence, calm yourself.


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    #41
    lolokeogh
    Registered Users Posts: 325 ✭✭lolokeogh


    AssetBacked2 wrote: »
    There was a military games in October, around the time the virus took off in China, with representatives from world countries, including military rivals to China, in the same place that the virus originated?

    It would be quite a statement from the Chinese to demonstrate their biological warfare capabilities.

    yeah i heard some man on joe duffy of all places saying when his son came home he had all the symtoms of covid,but sure there was no one with covid here then,and im sure he said when his son did get the antibody test done it said he had it,now im near sure im right with that,i just do not want to be running down a conspircy path,but there is loads of folk that took part that did say they ended up sick,google throws up all sorts.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Military_World_Games


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    #42
    lolokeogh
    Registered Users Posts: 325 ✭✭lolokeogh


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    But of course! :rolleyes: It's hard to keep any thread here on a serious verifiable course when CT are inserted into so many.[/QUO

    who said it was a CT?


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    #43
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,075 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    There was also a spike in pneumonia hospitalisations in late 2019 in Dublin. I recall the Journal had a piece on it, but I can't find it as the covid stuff blows out the search engines. IIRC it wasn't a large spike, but enough to be notable.

    I got an oddball dose in Jan/Feb from a mate who had been on holiday in Europe. I have passed it off as the flu and likely was some other virus, only I've never had the flu, or rather am asymptomatic with it, the guy I caught this from already had the flu run through his family the previous november(which I didn't get) and had the flu jab. My symptoms were cough, bad headaches(and I never get headaches), high fever(39-40) and that was it. No snotty nose or anything. The guts of it passed in a few days and was more a pain in the arse than a bad dose. My friend(non smoker) was hit hard by it and today if I'm talking with him for any length of time he'll have a cough or two. His wife was really hit badly requiring antibiotics and steroids which didn't seem to do much or took weeks to have an effect. His kids nada. It certainly fits for Covid on the symptoms and origin part and the same symptoms today would have me concerned. Was it? Who knows and any antibodies are likely well gone by now.

    This virus is proving to be a real oddball in how it spreads and how it affects people. Even in the more vulnerable groups like the elderly, you'll have some asymptomatic, others mild, some with a bad dose and others dead in a week. Never mind its infectiousness. I personally know of two households where one or two people caught it and were positive yet others in the same household, in one case sharing the same bed, didn't and weren't. You wouldn't see that with influenza or any of the common cold viruses. If you're sleeping with someone you're pretty much guaranteed to be infected by whatever they have.

    Though my personal musing is that this can be explained by a previous "bug" that did the rounds in the last ten years gave immunity to some degree to many so they're the asymptomatic and very mild cases. Those who didn't get that bug don't have that protection. This would also explain how smokers aren't as likely to catch it, because smokers are more likely because of their habit to catch seasonal respiratory infections. It also might explain that if smokers do catch it they have worse outcomes(as one would expect). They were the ones who didn't get "inosculated". Also the elderly are less likely to catch "common colds", kids are more likely to.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #44
    Whatsisname
    Registered Users Posts: 5,651 ✭✭✭Whatsisname


    Bicyclette wrote: »
    They should be looking at nursing home deaths in December 2019. Friend of a friend had a relative in a nursing home in the midlands. A lot of the people living in that nursing home (12 or so) died from "the flu" in December.

    I know that where I am working, the "flu" spread like wildfire in November-December. There were people out sick for two and three months. I had the flu vaccine in October but in November I was sent home from work with a hacking cough. Enough to catch my breath. I was off work for a week and the day I went back, I woke up with a crazy migraine - but had to go in. I was feeling awful and afraid to stand up all day in case I went down. Eventually I left work early and spent another week in bed followed by another week of half days. I was still struggling over Christmas. Couldn't walk very far without getting breathless. Other colleagues had similar symptoms. Including one who thought they were getting a heart attack because they were so breathless and their heart was gone bananas.

    One of my siblings had Covid. I am 100% convinced that what we had was a milder version. That what arrived here in March was a mutated stronger version. And that it seems to have mutated to be a bit milder again.

    This is exactly what happened in the nursing home my grandmother was in last November. Unfortunately she was one of those who caught whatever was going around and sadly passed as a result of it. But there was roughly about 12 or so aswell who died within a 2 week window of eachother. I remember my Dad telling me the nurses were shocked at how many were passing so frequently. I don't live in Ireland anymore so I couldn't visit her in her final days but every family member who did said whatever she caught was horrible to see. We've wondered was it covid or not, maybe it was just the flu but who knows.


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    #45
    Ms2011
    Registered Users Posts: 3,119 ✭✭✭Ms2011


    Bicyclette wrote: »
    I know that where I am working, the "flu" spread like wildfire in November-December.

    My husband went down with the 'flu' Christmas night and didn't get out of bed until he had to go back to work after New Year even though he wasn't fully recovered. When he went back every second person he spoke to had the same complaint.
    Now what I find strange is that he works in a large warehouse in Dublin, 100+ people, a lot would be single men who would be less than hygienic so hand washing, cough etiquette etc. wouldn't be their forte but yet there was only one confirmed case of Covid in his job and that was in a woman in the administration office, none on the floor.
    My theory is that they all had Covid at Christmas and had built up antibodies to it and that is why no one bare one person in his job has been confirmed with Covid 19.


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    #46
    Thierry12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Thierry12


    Anyone good with Math?

    Italy had 500 deaths a day by mid March

    Infection to death is on average a few weeks for Covid ,we will say infection to death is 4 weeks

    You get infected, 7-10 days later you get sick, 7-10 days later it gets bad, 7-10 days later you die etc

    CFR is now thought to be 0.5%

    You need 100,000 cases a day to get 500 deaths that took 4 weeks to happen

    Italy needed 100,000 cases a day in mid Feb to get 500 deaths in mid March

    It started in mid Jan?

    Covid has r naught of 2?

    Doubles every week

    Mid Jan we will be genourous and say 100 people had it.

    100,200,400,800,1,600,3,200,6,400,12,800,25,600,51,200, 101,200

    That's 10 weeks to get 100,000 cases or so , but Italy had 100,000 cases a day in 4 weeks by mid Feb based on 0.5% CFR

    To get 100,000 cases a day with r naught of 2 in 4 weeks

    Needs to be 6,500 cases day one

    6,500, 13,000, 26,000, 52,000, 104,000

    How in the heck did Covid only start in Italy in late Feb?

    First case officialy is 21st Feb with 500 deaths a day in mid March

    Do governments think we are stupid or something?

    Maths don't make sense to me

    https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/11/coronavirus-italy-covid-19-pandemic-europe-date-antibodies-study


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    #47
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    For those that caught it last year, did anyone else catch it this year?

    It's so contagious that I was sure I would catch it. But nothing in March, nothing in April, nothing in May... And here we are in November and I'm still waiting to catch it. Not that I want to catch it.

    I had a horrible cold last November with a lingering cough. With the way how things are going, I wouldn't rule it out. Just possibly a mild dose of covid.


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    #48
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Thierry12 wrote: »
    First case officialy is 21st Feb with 500 deaths a day in mid March[/url]
    Italy's first official cases were 31st January, two Chinese tourists who had arrived on 23rd.

    There's a good chance they weren't the first; just the first to fall ill when the whole planet was on the lookout for sick Chinese people.

    But your timeline does fit that.


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    #49
    Russman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,851 ✭✭✭Russman


    Thierry12 wrote: »
    Anyone good with Math?

    Italy had 500 deaths a day by mid March

    Infection to death is on average a few weeks for Covid ,we will say infection to death is 4 weeks

    You get infected, 7-10 days later you get sick, 7-10 days later it gets bad, 7-10 days later you die etc

    CFR is now thought to be 0.5%

    You need 100,000 cases a day to get 500 deaths that took 4 weeks to happen

    Italy needed 100,000 cases a day in mid Feb to get 500 deaths in mid March

    It started in mid Jan?

    Covid has r naught of 2?

    Doubles every week

    Mid Jan we will be genourous and say 100 people had it.

    100,200,400,800,1,600,3,200,6,400,12,800,25,600,51,200, 101,200

    That's 10 weeks to get 100,000 cases or so , but Italy had 100,000 cases a day in 4 weeks by mid Feb based on 0.5% CFR

    To get 100,000 cases a day with r naught of 2 in 4 weeks

    Needs to be 6,500 cases day one

    6,500, 13,000, 26,000, 52,000, 104,000

    How in the heck did Covid only start in Italy in late Feb?

    First case officialy is 21st Feb with 500 deaths a day in mid March

    Do governments think we are stupid or something?

    Maths don't make sense to me

    https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/11/coronavirus-italy-covid-19-pandemic-europe-date-antibodies-study

    Don't disagree with you, but doesn't COVID have an R nought of between 3 and 4 "in the wild" ? I'm sure I've seen/heard Philip Nolan say that at the press conferences.


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    #50
    lalababa
    Registered Users Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭lalababa


    The medical consensus of the bad virus that hit us last winter was that it was H3N2 or the Hong Kong flu that killed estimate 1-4 million back in 1968-9. It was doing the rounds globally and hit Australia a few months before. AFAIK the flu jab last year did not cover H3N2.( Remember that the hospitals were closed to visitors last winter!)
    Any suggestions as to it being C-19 were slapped down.
    We are now getting dribs and drabs of evidence that C-19 was in France in December and now Italy in September.


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    #51
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    unhappys10 wrote: »
    How many times have you had the actual flu though, and I don't mean the sniffles.

    It's a rare occurance.

    My father in law had a flu of some sort in December, he couldn't get out of the bed for a week. Went to the doctors at the beginning and the doctor took a throat swab. The father in law thought this was unusual, I don't know if its normal procedure for a flu or not but he thought nothing more of it at the time.

    He said it was the worst dose he ever had.

    It's not unbelievable that it was circulating before we think it was.
    Maybe it wasn't it but maybe it was, I don't know for sure and neither do you.

    One thing we know with 100% certainty is that it originated in a wet market in Wuhan, from bats that are native to a region of China 1000 miles away.


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    #52
    bladespin
    Registered Users Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭bladespin


    Deleted User wrote: »
    One thing we know with 100% certainty is that it originated in a wet market in Wuhan, from bats that are native to a region of China 1000 miles away.
    Weren't there several theories about that too? Even the WHO weren't sure last time I read about it.


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    #53
    ArrBee
    Registered Users Posts: 791 ✭✭✭ArrBee


    I was reading an article that suggests back in Sept 2019 there were Covid antibodys in Italy.
    Apparently they analysed a bunch of samples that were collected for cancer screening.

    The article I read links to this data (Which I havent read)
    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0300891620974755


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    #54
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I've had the flu twice in my life. Both times was laid out flat for a week, to the extent I could barely lift my arm off the bed. High temps, sweating. One thing I didn't have was any sort of cough.

    My daughter at the end of January had what I thought was flu. However one symptom didn't fit - severe chronic coughing and difficulty catching her breath. She was in the house with us the whole time and none of us got sick, only her. I mean who knows. Maybe it was a weird flu.


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    #55
    cajonlardo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭cajonlardo


    The world Military Athletic games was held in Wuhan in October . Google it and Covid symtoms and you will see a lot of results suggesting the possibility of infections

    Stories from soldiers attending say they observed unusal practises in dining halls etc indicating officials were aware there was an existing threat


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    #56
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    bladespin wrote: »
    Weren't there several theories about that too? Even the WHO weren't sure last time I read about it.

    It was a poor attempt at a joke. Everything around COVID has been "no evidence of" or "we're not sure" except for the Wuhan wet market narrative. "No evidence" or "not sure" was never used in media reporting in relation to that.


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    #57
    JDD
    Registered Users Posts: 1,578 ✭✭✭JDD


    I am convinced a colleague had Covid in Dec/Jan.

    She had all the covid symptoms. Loss of taste and smell, high temperature, difficultly breathing, persistent cough. She then started to feel better and came into work for a couple of days before Christmas break. She said she felt okay over Christmas Day, but crashed a second time during the week between Christmas and New Year. Crushing fatigue, persistent cough back again, muscle aches. She went to the doctor for the second time in early January, and the doctor diagnosed her with viral bronchitis. Interestingly, the GP said that every last consult from the last week of December was for the same virus, with the same symptoms.

    She recovered and came back to work in mid-January. Four other colleagues (out of 100 on the floor) had the same virus and suffered as badly.


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    #58
    bladespin
    Registered Users Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭bladespin


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It was a poor attempt at a joke. Everything around COVID has been "no evidence of" or "we're not sure" except for the Wuhan wet market narrative. "No evidence" or "not sure" was never used in media reporting in relation to that.

    Apologies, thought we weren't allowed joke about it here ;)


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    #59
    tobefrank321
    Registered Users Posts: 4,451 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    ArrBee wrote: »
    I was reading an article that suggests back in Sept 2019 there were Covid antibodys in Italy.
    Apparently they analysed a bunch of samples that were collected for cancer screening.

    The article I read links to this data (Which I havent read)
    https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0300891620974755

    And seems to have been fairly prevalent back then too.

    But it raises a lot of questions. Surely this was running rampant in China last Autumn. And given its infectiousness, it should have been spreading around the world.

    By the way, I believe the ani body tests tend to give some false positives - this would have to be ruled out first for the Italian samples.


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    #60
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,381 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Away With The Fairies wrote: »
    I had a horrible cold last November with a lingering cough. With the way how things are going, I wouldn't rule it out. Just possibly a mild dose of covid.
    Given the way this spreads if people in this country had it last year, with absolutely no social distancing taking place, the hospitals would surely have been overrun in January/February


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    #61
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    ttoppcat wrote: »
    Corona virus in Italy as early as Sept 19

    https://www.breakingnews.ie/world/researchers-find-coronavirus-was-circulating-in-italy-in-september-2019-1036981.html
    “This is the main finding: people with no symptoms not only were positive after the serological tests but also had antibodies able to kill the virus,” Apolone said.

    “It means that the new coronavirus can circulate among the population for a long time and with a low rate of lethality, not because it is disappearing, only to surge again,” he said.
    "It means that the new coronavirus can circulate among the population for a long time and with a low rate of lethality"
    Interesting and promising. Scary that it mutated? suddenly and went deadly.


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