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tabby aspreme · 09-11-2020 11:02AM

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Great discussion. I'm only a curious observer but does anyone know any tillage lads that made the transition into dairying. Going from suckling is one thing where you have some experience of cows but from tillage....

There are a few around here moving to dairying, but they have teenage, or early 20s sons, who will be doing most of the work, these lads have been welded to John Deere seats all there lives, a lot of the new entrants to dairying seem to be willing to pay lads to do a few milkings each week, unlike older lads who were slaves to dairying.

Bass Reeves · 09-11-2020 11:24AM

Grueller wrote: »

My cows are being dried off tomorrow morning Bass. I will start calving on January 15th.
I could head for Oz next week for 2 months easily enough.
You will only be a slave if you make it so.

Bass, I work hard as do most others on here. I start at 5.45am. I work off farm 15-20 hours per week. However with almost no other labour around I am finished every evening at 6.30 - 7.00. Almost is as you call it "Pops". As I am in and out of high risk facilities with Covid I have basically barred him from the yard as he is high risk as is my mother. I can still manage the workload due to good facilities.

The problem with the scenario of going into dairy cross beef is that you are still in beef. I fooled myself for ten years that suckling is profitable. I am not going to do the same that any other type of beef is profitable in any meaningful way.
A friend of mine who was a serious suckler man transitioned to a dairy cross calf to store system. He threw open his books to me. He is making absolutely no more money from that system than he was at suckling, but has less work. He has 110 acres in one block of prime Wexford land but ruled out dairying as he was 46 at the time of changing system. His young lad is 21 now and my friend has said that the problem he sees now is that the son will never farm as due to the low profit levels in the system he sees no future. You said about sticking it out for 15 years if you were in drystock, but that puts that mans son at 36, very little profit on the farm at a stage where he is in the teeth of mortgage, family etc so has not got the cash or opportunity to change system.
You are right that dairy doesn't suit everyone but the man that Inhave outlined above is sorry he "hadn't the guts" as he put it himself.

On the other hand your friend's son can go away and build a career for himself, travel and see life. The father can work and farm a simple drystock operation. In 10+ years time the father can start to step back the son or daughter can take over the farm or start to get involved anyway. Father can extract 100-200k by destocking and inheritor can build up a drystock operation using PAYE to offset start up losses.

I think larger drystock operations that were capable of giving a fulltime income are struggling with the transition that smaller drystock operations had to make over the last 10+ years(20-50+ years ago in the west of Ireland) and still hanker for the fulltime option.

Dairying will be a shock to a some of them. I bought the farm in 2003, our family was young we went abroad every second year with them for two weeks even in March early April one year. Dairying ties you down any dairy farmers will attest to that.

jntsnk · 09-11-2020 11:58AM

Can you explain the method of PAYE to offset start up losses?

09-11-2020 01:06PM

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Great discussion. I'm only a curious observer but does anyone know any tillage lads that made the transition into dairying. Going from suckling is one thing where you have some experience of cows but from tillage....

My brother, qualified mechanic.
Never saw a cow in his life.
This is his first year, in his mid twenties not married & would be an absolute slave to get through work & very good to apply himself to something .
The money is a great motivation.
It's funny because the main thing people used to say to him was you do know they've to be milked on Sundays too... His reply always was "I know & I can't wait to only work 4 hrs every Sunday.

jfh · 09-11-2020 02:42PM

DukeCaboom wrote: »

My brother, qualified mechanic.
Never saw a cow in his life.
This is his first year, in his mid twenties not married & would be an absolute slave to get through work & very good to apply himself to something .
The money is a great motivation.
It's funny because the main thing people used to say to him was you do know they've to be milked on Sundays too... His reply always was "I know & I can't wait to only work 4 hrs every Sunday.

If he's busy every Sunday as a mechanic, you can be sure he'll be exactly the same milking cows.

09-11-2020 03:53PM

jfh wrote: »

If he's busy every Sunday as a mechanic, you can be sure he'll be exactly the same milking cows.

Haha your dead right but he's getting paid more milking.

whelan2 · 12-11-2020 03:14PM

Young lad has a curaheen earp weanling bull. Nice animal. I'd say about 350kg. Weaned a few weeks, born March. What's he worth?

pat73 · 12-11-2020 03:21PM

What are March/April dairy cross whitehead bulls 250kg nice and square making..

charolais0153 · 12-11-2020 04:12PM

whelan2 wrote: »

Young lad has a curaheen earp weanling bull. Nice animal. I'd say about 350kg. Weaned a few weeks, born March. What's he worth?

What colour

whelan2 · 12-11-2020 06:20PM

charolais0153 wrote: »

What colour

Red and white

togeradoo88 · 12-11-2020 06:24PM

How have people found the level 5 restrictions have affected trade ?

charolais0153 · 12-11-2020 06:52PM

whelan2 wrote: »

Red and white

Around 750 depending on quality I'd say

patsy_mccabe · 12-11-2020 08:14PM

togeradoo88 wrote: »

How have people found the level 5 restrictions have affected trade ?

Welcome to Boards.

whelan2 · 12-11-2020 08:21PM

togeradoo88 wrote: »

How have people found the level 5 restrictions have affected trade ?

Sold a load of animals out of the yard today. All collected by this evening and cheque lodged this afternoon. No waiting around. Happy out.

patsy_mccabe · 14-11-2020 12:42AM

Some amount of suckler clearance sales on Donedeal. This one looks like watching;

https://www.donedeal.ie/beefcattle-for-sale/60-suckler-herd-sale-tuam-mart-7th-dec-12pm/26507450

Bass Reeves · 14-11-2020 10:02AM

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Some amount of suckler clearance sales on Donedeal. This one looks like watching;

https://www.donedeal.ie/beefcattle-for-sale/60-suckler-herd-sale-tuam-mart-7th-dec-12pm/26507450

With the last 2yeats I have heard a few lads saying when the BDGP was over they were exiting suckler's. BEAM may have accelerated the decision. By culling now lads may find it easier to hold onto BEAM money. A lad with 40 cows and finishing the progeny would have over 5k . Any dairy lads selling extra cows or heifer over the next couple of years could clean up

patsy_mccabe · 14-11-2020 11:19AM

I'm out of touch with Beam. How does that affect things?

tanko · 14-11-2020 11:40AM

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I'm out of touch with Beam. How does that affect things?

Basically if you're in BEAM you have to keep 5% less cattle between June '20 and June '21 compared to June '18 to June '19.

Bass Reeves · 14-11-2020 11:42AM

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I'm out of touch with Beam. How does that affect things?

BEAM is reliant on a 5% nitrogen reduction. By destocking now it might help to get you under the limit if going milking. When dairy cows are 85 kgs N. When they start calving in your herd a dairy heifer jumps from 57-85. As the reference period is until the end of June having minimum stock for 6-8 weeks might help get you under the limit

Base price · 14-11-2020 12:00PM

tanko wrote: »

Basically if you're in BEAM you have to keep 5% less cattle between June '20 and June '21 compared to June '18 to June '19.

It's 5% reduction in organic nitrogen compared to the reference year, not 5% reduction in cattle numbers.

Lime Tree Farm · 14-11-2020 12:02PM

BEAM : The confusion is affecting sales of cattle.

Speaking to the Irish Farmers Journal Ennis mart manager Martin McNamara said: “We have a lot of big customers who are in BEAM and don’t know where they stand in relation to their stocking rates and they have said they’re going to ease up buying because of that.

“The last thing we need next spring is farmers panic selling and beef finishers not being able to buy them because of a Government stipulation. There should be a facility for farmers to view their figures on a monthly basis.”

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/beam-scheme-confusion-a-growing-concern-583302

TooOldBoots · 14-11-2020 12:32PM

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Some amount of suckler clearance sales on Donedeal. This one looks like watching;

https://www.donedeal.ie/beefcattle-for-sale/60-suckler-herd-sale-tuam-mart-7th-dec-12pm/26507450

Another one at Ennis mart this Tuesday.
https://www.donedeal.ie/beefcattle-for-sale/clearance-sale-of-sucklers-ennis-mart-17th-nov/26493548?campaign=3

In fairness theres not much appetite for sucklers anymore. The world of pedigree Bulls for sale too.
idk what lads are doing, they must be getting into dairying.

patsy_mccabe · 14-11-2020 12:41PM

This herd about to be sold in sixmilebridge mart today;

https://www.donedeal.ie/beefcattle-for-sale/in-calf-cows/26459254

Bass Reeves · 14-11-2020 01:18PM

Lime Tree Farm wrote: »

BEAM : The confusion is affecting sales of cattle.

Speaking to the Irish Farmers Journal Ennis mart manager Martin McNamara said: “We have a lot of big customers who are in BEAM and don’t know where they stand in relation to their stocking rates and they have said they’re going to ease up buying because of that.

“The last thing we need next spring is farmers panic selling and beef finishers not being able to buy them because of a Government stipulation. There should be a facility for farmers to view their figures on a monthly basis.”

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/beam-scheme-confusion-a-growing-concern-583302

AFAIK if you look at nitrates on aug food they will have one to the end of June for your farm. It only a matter of found a calculation from that. There is at least two more nitrates updates since then at end of August and September. However most lads need to be spoon fed

jfh · 14-11-2020 01:24PM

I have resigned to the fact that I will be returning the 1000 euro so be it. My nitrates are going up not down

TooOldBoots · 14-11-2020 02:42PM

jfh wrote: »

I have resigned to the fact that I will be returning the 1000 euro so be it. My nitrates are going up not down

I'm in the same position. I even added more land since but it seems to make no difference to the Gestapo Ag dept. Falling on deaf ears even though I've added 10% more land they don't care.

Grueller · 14-11-2020 02:59PM

TooOldBoots wrote: »

I'm in the same position. I even added more land since but it seems to make no difference to the Gestapo Ag dept. Falling on deaf ears even though I've added 10% more land they don't care.

It's not nitrates per ha under that scheme. Its total nitrates per farm so if you took land based on reducing nitrates for beam you were very poorly advised.

MIKEKC · 14-11-2020 03:14PM

TooOldBoots wrote: »

I'm in the same position. I even added more land since but it seems to make no difference to the Gestapo Ag dept. Falling on deaf ears even though I've added 10% more land they don't care.

From the outset it was stated that adding more land would not be acceptable

patsy_mccabe · 14-11-2020 05:58PM

At the suckler sale today in SMB it was announced that the farmer was going dairying.

jfh · 14-11-2020 07:10PM

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

At the suckler sale today in SMB it was announced that the farmer was going dairying.

Fine herd of cows he had too, some reasonable prices

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