Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings

funnydoggy · 13-11-2020 12:54PM

Re: retail, the *only* cases from them were workplace clusters. Goes to show how well controlled some of the environments were. There were a few clusters but all between staff. No customer got affected.

Let staff get back to work.

dalyboy · 13-11-2020 12:55PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

The other key point is it's not up to him to be issuing edicts like this - that's why we have an elected Government (weak as they are) to make the decisions

All he's doing is putting pressure on them in advance of the next meeting/decision point - which he'll know will work as they don't want to be seen to be going against the "expert" medical advice.

The guy needs to be put back in his box immediately. If we had a strong Taoiseach they'd be on the phone to him asking what the hell he thinks he's at.

Just to further the governments ineptitude, biggest question of them all. Why the fcuk do we not have antigen testing at our airports.

Is 98% reliability considered a fail .

This along with nursing homes and hospital infections occurring to the vulnerable is bearing on criminal neglect economically and morally.

I too hope the airport is jammers with departures and returnees mid December. It’ll send a flare to the NPHET/government/media cabal that we don’t give a toss anymore to their AGENDA

nofools · 13-11-2020 12:56PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

Dr Holohan is on another solo run with no one to answer to it seems. I’m concerned re the reaction of media when Varadkar stood up to him, why vilify Varadkar instead of the person who swanned in from leave calling for a Level 5 with zero consultation with anyone.
Is there any other high level member of Government willing to publicly call this behaviour out? Or are the Government scapegoating NPHET and parading them out to the media to be Scrooge’s re Christmas to avoid the flack themselves?
Looking at the Ryanair prices, it seems his & Varadkar’s talk re Christmas is putting up prices. People are booking...

Well he was proven right in that case. Level 5 was appropriate.

nofools · 13-11-2020 12:57PM

funnydoggy wrote: »

Re: retail, the *only* cases from them were workplace clusters. Goes to show how well controlled some of the environments were. There were a few clusters but all between staff. No customer got affected.

Let staff get back to work.

That is a curious logic. A case is a case and a cluster is a cluster regardless.

The staff are too close and often too complacent.

nofools · 13-11-2020 12:59PM

dalyboy wrote: »

Just to further the governments ineptitude, biggest question of them all. Why the fcuk do we not have antigen testing at our airports.

Is 98% reliability considered a fail .

This along with nursing homes and hospital infections occurring to the vulnerable is bearing on criminal neglect economically and morally.

I too hope the airport is jammers with departures and returnees mid December. It’ll send a flare to the NPHET/government/media cabal that we don’t give a toss anymore to their AGENDA

Agree 100% with the first part but no excuse for the nonsense in the second part.

Chill out and stop being difficult for the sake of it.

The government pay no heed to whatever message you think you have for them.

_Kaiser_ · 13-11-2020 01:00PM

funnydoggy wrote: »

Re: retail, the *only* cases from them were workplace clusters. Goes to show how well controlled some of the environments were. There were a few clusters but all between staff. No customer got affected.

Let staff get back to work.

Let everyone get back to living I say

The facts of the matter and stats are that this is not a dangerous or deadly virus for the overwhelming majority of the population in this country - for many they don't even realise they have it until they're told.

Protect the nursing homes (where the statistically most at risk are), impose stricter controls in hospitals to limit transmission among patients and staff and reopen everything else

I would bet that if we did that, we'd see no more deaths than we are now. Loads more "cases" sure but as I have said for months now, that's a pointless metric as the vast majority of these don't even need hospitalisation never mind dying from it.

end of the road · 13-11-2020 01:05PM

paw patrol wrote: »

they take statistical anomalies extreme case and present them as "this can happen to you too" , it's tabloid trash.

The notion of developing public policy for a population over handful of tragic but outlier cases is madness and very poor civic policy

and therefore it's just as well that such isn't happening.

paw patrol wrote: »

i've been consistent since may early june.

this covid lark is over blown.

nothing i see yet demonstrates the re-action of the government in Ireland is justified. Nothing.

Since summer everything should have been normal.

As a sparely populated country compared to others in the EU and an island , we should have had the least restrictions but we had the most. weird.

the evidence and data shows you are wrong, it isn't over blown.
nothing you have seen yet justifies the reaction of the government because what you are looking to see to justify it isn't happening because it is being controlled.
when the spread of a virus is being controlled and minimised, you won't see anywhere near as much effects from it as you would if it isn't being controlled.

_Kaiser_ · 13-11-2020 01:06PM

nofools wrote: »

A plate of food in front you has no magical protective properties.

Too close, too indoors and in the scheme of things not a priority.

Are you sure? It wasn't that long ago that a €9 meal was deemed sufficient to protect you remember!

Johnboy1951 · 13-11-2020 01:13PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

Dr Holohan is on another solo run with no one to answer to it seems. I’m concerned re the reaction of media when Varadkar stood up to him, why vilify Varadkar instead of the person who swanned in from leave calling for a Level 5 with zero consultation with anyone.
Is there any other high level member of Government willing to publicly call this behaviour out? Or are the Government scapegoating NPHET and parading them out to the media to be Scrooge’s re Christmas to avoid the flack themselves?
Looking at the Ryanair prices, it seems his & Varadkar’s talk re Christmas is putting up prices. People are booking...

I have come to the view that letting Holohan be the front man, and the gov 'following NPHET advice' is done deliberately so that the gov can claim later they themselves were not the ones behind the destruction of the economy and other negative effects of the lockdowns ........ heck they can even point to the fact that they once refused a level 5.

And of course if the advice proves out to be absolutely correct they can claim to have followed it.

...... wash hands ...... Pontius Pilate ..... not our fault ...... or maybe, were we not great .....

dalyboy · 13-11-2020 01:15PM

nofools wrote: »

Well he was proven right in that case. Level 5 was appropriate.

How is this “proof” ?

How do we know that the cases would NOT have fallen regardless of instigating our mad level 5 ?

Do we have a test subject/country at hand to determine the success of these lockdowns ? (Psst Sweden)

dalyboy · 13-11-2020 01:24PM

nofools wrote: »

Agree 100% with the first part but no excuse for the nonsense in the second part.

Chill out and stop being difficult for the sake of it.

The government pay no heed to whatever message you think you have for them.

This is a public opinion forum. Their heed is uninteresting to me. I’ll say what I like thanks (as you can too btw)

_Kaiser_ · 13-11-2020 01:32PM

nofools wrote: »

The government pay no heed to whatever message you think you have for them.

Not so. They seem very interested in commentary on this issue per the article that was posted yesterday I believe.

That doesn't mean they're taking it on board of course, but we know how that ends up if they push too far - water charges for example where it became impossible to ignore or write off as extremists protesting. People just refused to engage with Irish Water altogether.

The same will happen here, indeed it's already starting.

CruelSummer · 13-11-2020 01:41PM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I have come to the view that letting Holohan be the front man, and the gov 'following NPHET advice' is done deliberately so that the gov can claim later they themselves were not the ones behind the destruction of the economy and other negative effects of the lockdowns ........ heck they can even point to the fact that they once refused a level 5.

And of course if the advice proves out to be absolutely correct they can claim to have followed it.

...... wash hands ...... Pontius Pilate ..... not our fault ...... or maybe, were we not great .....

Beginning to wonder this myself, members of Cabinet, including our finance minister are oddly quiet re the effect these restrictions will have and their implications long term.
The Ministers for Finance and Trade, Enterprise & Employment should be highlighting the amount of income being lost in this 3 week period in particular in the run up to Christmas. Well worth it to reopen now, even if they'd to shut for 3 weeks in January as a result if you look at earnings figures for any retail outlet in this country.

_Kaiser_ · 13-11-2020 01:52PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

Beginning to wonder this myself, members of Cabinet, including our finance minister are oddly quiet re the effect these restrictions will have and their implications long term.
The Ministers for Finance and Trade, Enterprise & Employment should be highlighting the amount of income being lost in this 3 week period in particular in the run up to Christmas. Well worth it to reopen now, even if they'd to shut for 3 weeks in January as a result if you look at earnings figures for any retail outlet in this country.

I'd say at this point a lot of the damage to local trade is done in regards to the Christmas season.

The uncertainty over "what next" and the ongoing message of fear and restrictions means that many have already bought what they need online (as recent AnPost reports of massive parcel volumes will attest to) and are waiting for it to be delivered.

I'd be one of those. Christmas presents are already bought and starting to arrive over the last week or two.

suicide_circus · 13-11-2020 01:56PM

nofools wrote: »

Restaurants....not worth it. Is a few nice meals worth a couple of extra months of this?

So if restaurants stay closed we wont have a few extra months of this? Am i missing something? Surely the only thing that will stop the endless cycle of lockdown/open up is a vaccine? You have to throw people a bone. Remaining tightly locked down over Christmas will be devastating for morale. Opening up and letting people live a little followed by a well telegraphed lockdown would be preferable imo.

bush · 13-11-2020 01:57PM

A retail guy was on the tonight show last night pleading for shops to be opened, he looked so frustrated.

funnydoggy · 13-11-2020 02:06PM

bush wrote: »

A retail guy was on the tonight show last night pleading for shops to be opened, he looked so frustrated.

This is the busiest time of the year for shops. Bigger companies (where staff are on the subsidy scheme and not unemployed on the PUP) would be throwing hours at staff right now and it'd be gladly accepted.

Instead of a 20 hour contract for example, staff would be doing 30+ in some cases. Nice bit of money for Santa.

That isn't happening now, and it's hurting people's wallets. I'd be frustrated too tbh!

nofools · 13-11-2020 02:13PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

So if restaurants stay closed we wont have a few extra months of this? Am i missing something? Surely the only thing that will stop the endless cycle of lockdown/open up is a vaccine? You have to throw people a bone. Remaining tightly locked down over Christmas will be devastating for morale. Opening up and letting people live a little followed by a well telegraphed lockdown would be preferable imo.

The vast majority of people eat Christmas dinner at home.

I think we are like spoiled babies, eating in restaurants is a luxury no matter what way you spin in it.

MelbourneMan · 13-11-2020 02:17PM

nofools wrote: »

A plate of food in front you has no magical protective properties.

Too close, too indoors and in the scheme of things not a priority.

Hello. Certainly, patronising public houses is a very low priority considering the risks involved. The food requirement is an effective measure in limited circumstances though, as it does raise a barrier to entry, thus limiting the numbers willing to go that food step. Which is the key benefit - a financial incentive discouraging the frequenting of pubs. But would agree, and advocate, that in the context of Christmas priorities, small family gatherings must be given precendence during a short window during the traditional holiday season.

suicide_circus · 13-11-2020 02:21PM

nofools wrote: »

The vast majority of people eat Christmas dinner at home.

I think we are like spoiled babies, eating in restaurants is a luxury no matter what way you spin in it.

If wanting to enjoy hospitality outside my own four walls at Christmas time makes me a spoiled baby then i'll strap on the bib. And also the "vast majority of people eat Christmas dinner at home" WITH friends, family and neighbours visiting.

charlie14 · 13-11-2020 02:22PM

polesheep wrote: »

Way to go for reading my mind and getting it wrong. I have been tested and have no issue being tested at any time. And I am absolutely pro-vaccine.

You`ll have no problem getting into Ticketmaster events so.

MelbourneMan · 13-11-2020 02:23PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

So if restaurants stay closed we wont have a few extra months of this? Am i missing something? Surely the only thing that will stop the endless cycle of lockdown/open up is a vaccine?

Hello. This is not quite true. There is a middle ground of restrictions which maintain a control on the virus spread in the community, which avoids the swings between very strong lockdowns such as those in force at present, and then opening non-essential high risk activities to general access. While a vaccine is of course the long term goal, the medium term management of the situation requires a movement from the thinking that low numbers mean the removal of restrictions. While it will hurt some elements of society, the economy, and peoples lives, a steady position is in the overall good.

charlie14 · 13-11-2020 02:30PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Not to mention Covid "curers" are all fully indemnified by govts.

I`m not sure that is totally correct.

Is it not the case that governments can choose to either indemnify the vaccine producers and get the vaccine at a discounted price, or not indemnify and pay the full price ?

ShyMets · 13-11-2020 02:31PM

MelbourneMan wrote: »

Hello. This is not quite true. There is a middle ground of restrictions which maintain a control on the virus spread in the community, which avoids the swings between very strong lockdowns such as those in force at present, and then opening non-essential high risk activities to general access. While a vaccine is of course the long term goal, the medium term management of the situation requires a movement from the thinking that low numbers mean the removal of restrictions. While it will hurt some elements of society, the economy, and peoples lives, a steady position is in the overall good.

Have you not been banned yet

nofools · 13-11-2020 02:35PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

If wanting to enjoy hospitality outside my own four walls at Christmas time makes me a spoiled baby then i'll strap on the bib. And also the "vast majority of people eat Christmas dinner at home" WITH friends, family and neighbours visiting.

Given the scenario, it does yes.

Johnboy1951 · 13-11-2020 02:44PM

MelbourneMan wrote: »

Hello. Certainly, patronising public houses is a very low priority considering the risks involved. The food requirement is an effective measure in limited circumstances though, as it does raise a barrier to entry, thus limiting the numbers willing to go that food step. Which is the key benefit - a financial incentive discouraging the frequenting of pubs. But would agree, and advocate, that in the context of Christmas priorities, small family gatherings must be given precendence during a short window during the traditional holiday season.

Yes it raises a financial barrier which only affects the less well off in society!

Ah yes, keep the less privilaged out of the pubs.

There is a huge number of people who cannot afford to 'eat out', so keep those out of the pubs.

All sounds rather elitist to me.

nofools · 13-11-2020 02:45PM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Yes it raises a financial barrier which only affects the less well off in society!

Ah yes, keep the less privilaged out of the pubs.

There is a huge number of people who cannot afford to 'eat out', so keep those out of the pubs.

All sounds rather elitist to me.

This is really scraping the barrel looking for things to complain about.

suicide_circus · 13-11-2020 02:50PM

MelbourneMan wrote: »

Hello.

Goodbye.

nofools wrote: »

Given the scenario, it does yes.

Do you know anything about managing people? Even in prison, prisoners are given little treats, hope, a limited sense of dignity. People will congregate in homes anyway which we were told was a major source of transmission. I dont remember restaurants being a major source of transmission.

3xh · 13-11-2020 03:01PM

charlie14 wrote: »

You`ll have no problem getting into Ticketmaster events so.

It’s one thing happily presenting for testing due to feeling the symptoms of Covid/flu/cold which are largely similar like cough, fever, sore throat, etc. so as to protect those around you and get back into society quicker and a whole other ball game needing to present for testing whilst fine, simply to watch a concert. Initially. Then cinemas. Then college. Then jobs. Etc.

But you knew that and agree.

nofools · 13-11-2020 03:06PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

Goodbye.

Do you know anything about managing people? Even in prison, prisoners are given little treats, hope, a limited sense of dignity. People will congregate in homes anyway which we were told was a major source of transmission. I dont remember restaurants being a major source of transmission.

Have a twix or something. Stop pretending eating out is some god given right

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings