Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings

3xh · 12-11-2020 05:49PM

charlie14 wrote: »

Could that not possibly be because the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention seven year average for deaths due to influenza is 41,000 while U.S. Covid-19 deaths for just 8 months are 224,421.?

Are those 41,000 deaths worth less, charlie14? They’re someone’s granny, etc etc.

See?

polesheep · 12-11-2020 05:56PM

Lundstram wrote: »

Anyone refusing the vaccine is a total idiot and deserve everything they get.

No sympathy.

So anyone who doesn't rush out and get the first RNA human vaccine, which has been hastily developed, is an idiot?

I suspect that it will be mostly those who are not vulnerable that will decline the vaccine and I doubt that they are too worried about what they might get, as what they might get has a minuscule chance of harming them.

Mr. Karate · 12-11-2020 06:04PM

Lundstram wrote: »

Leo today telling us it's highy unlikely people will be advised they can travel home to their families at Christmas. All the while tourists, jockeys, boxers, politicians etc were all given special dispensation to travel abroad and home since the Summer but he's tellling people they can't come home to their families at Christmas.

"it's tough on people but that's the it has to be"

Anyone who follows this rubbish is worse than the clown spouting this nonsense.

And don't forget that they didn't stop importing "New Irish" into the Country as well while all this was going on.

Idbatterim · 12-11-2020 06:04PM

3xh wrote: »

Are those 41,000 deaths worth less, charlie14? They’re someone’s granny, etc etc.

See?

I read from many sources, the states were actually letting people catch covid in hospital, as they got more for a covid death. then you have to think, its a moral disgrace, but they are capable of it there, believe me, if you havent been, nothing trumps the mighty dollar $$$. If you look at where a huge amount of the transmission is in ireland now , it is in hospitals. Wouldnt surprise me if the high US death count, is partially down to the hospitals there, wanting large pay outs, due to Cov19 deaths...

charlie14 · 12-11-2020 06:11PM

polesheep wrote: »

What do you think the death rate for Covid will be once the vulnerable have been vaccinated?

Who knows, but you do realise don`t you that the herd immunity aspect of vaccinations is generally to provide a shield for those vulnerable who for various reasons cannot take a vaccine ?
We will just have to wait and see if these vaccine will provide immumity to the vulnerable or if to protect them it will require a 60%-80% uptake to do that.

3xh · 12-11-2020 06:15PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

I read from many sources, the states were actually letting people catch covid in hospital, as they got more for a covid death. then you have to think, its a moral disgrace, but they are capable of it there, believe me, if you havent been, nothing trumps the mighty dollar $$$. If you look at where a huge amount of the transmission is in ireland now , it is in hospitals. Wouldnt surprise me if the high US death count, is partially down to the hospitals there, wanting large pay outs, due to Cov19 deaths...

Yep. True. There’s definitely some credence to that. Horrific, if true.

I needed 4 stitches and an ambulance ride one time there on holiday. $4500. They were pleasant but very firm in arranging its payment out of my travel insurance before leaving the hospital. Health is like its own currency there.

growleaves · 12-11-2020 06:18PM

JDD wrote: »

I'm not insisting that anyone take the vaccine. I completely believe in bodily integrity. Where we disagree is how our health system should be structured and how our health taxes should be spent. I believe that once a vaccine is available, covid is a completely avoidable illness, and infection can be directly related to the decision not to take the vaccine. Let me say, I'm not saying that someone should be refused treatment, not at all. Just that the cost of that treatment should be recovered directly from that person, and not from the tax paying body at large.

Let me just say that I'm left leaning and believe in having a one-tier health system for all. But I also believe in personal responsibility. And I believe that, in the case of a very contagious infection, that has the risk of spreading widely through the population causing serious problems to the operation of the health system if left run free though a largely unvaccinated population, some kind of strict measure should be imposed in order to ensure the people that are just vaguely mistrustful with no real basis for their concerns understand that there is also a consequence if they don't take the vaccine.

Lol

foxyladyxx · 12-11-2020 06:23PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

I read from many sources, the states were actually letting people catch covid in hospital, as they got more for a covid death. then you have to think, its a moral disgrace, but they are capable of it there, believe me, if you havent been, nothing trumps the mighty dollar $$$. If you look at where a huge amount of the transmission is in ireland now , it is in hospitals. Wouldnt surprise me if the high US death count, is partially down to the hospitals there, wanting large pay outs, due to Cov19 deaths...

They kept that very quiet ..that Covid was being transmitted in hospitals. Tony didn't tell us that but blamed ''the community''.

How dare he now tell us that if we behave we may have a Christmas . A Christmas not as we have enjoyed in the past but we may, if we are good, get to meet one other household

Give me a banner. I want to protest, :mad:

Stormyteacup · 12-11-2020 06:35PM

foxyladyxx wrote: »

They kept that very quiet ..that Covid was being transmitted in hospitals. Tony didn't tell us that but blamed ''the community''.

How dare he now tell us that if we behave we may have a Christmas . A Christmas not as we have enjoyed in the past but we may, if we are good, get to meet one other household

Give me a banner. I want to protest, :mad:

And it’s not as though hospital acquired infection is new. It’s been documented and tracked for other infections.

So they don’t even have the excuse that they couldn’t factor it in because it caught them by surprise.

polesheep · 12-11-2020 06:35PM

charlie14 wrote: »

Who knows, but you do realise don`t you that the herd immunity aspect of vaccinations is generally to provide a shield for those vulnerable who for various reasons cannot take a vaccine ?
We will just have to wait and see if these vaccine will provide immumity to the vulnerable or if to protect them it will require a 60%-80% uptake to do that.

Let's be honest, if the vulnerable cohort is largely vaccinated then the death rate is unlikely to be much different to the flu and probably less, as the flu vaccine doesn't catch all strains. So, again, why should Ticketmaster USA demand a Covid vaccine cert when they don't demand a flu vaccine cert despite an average 41,000 US citizens dying from flu every year? Of course, there is every possibility that they might demand a flu vaccine cert if they get away with demanding the Covid cert.

3xh · 12-11-2020 06:41PM

polesheep wrote: »

Let's be honest, if the vulnerable cohort is largely vaccinated then the death rate is unlikely to be much different to the flu and probably less, as the flu vaccine doesn't catch all strains. So, again, why should Ticketmaster USA demand a Covid vaccine cert when they don't demand a flu vaccine cert despite an average 41,000 US citizens dying from flu every year? Of course, there is every possibility that they might demand a flu vaccine cert if they get away with demanding the Covid cert.

Exactly. There’s a clear disconnect in their ‘justifying’ thinking.

It’s clear this vaccine e-proof is long thought of and not a knee jerk reaction/solution. It’s disgusting. You’re basically believing/trusting people who consciously lied/deceived you.

retro:electro · 12-11-2020 06:46PM

rob316 wrote: »

Level 3 is absolute bollox, we were told sacrifice the next 6 weeks and we can save Christmas. It's not christmas when you can't meet friends and family in a pub or restaurant or travel outside your county or mix households.

It was always going to be this way. The “save Christmas” tag line was just a load of tripe to try and keep people in line. I’m laughing away here at the fact that they think they can keep people apart from their families at Christmas. Once December 1st comes around people are going to do what they like regardless of what they say, and the ones who thought they were sacrificing all to “save Christmas” will realise they were sold a pup and have put their lives on hold for a complete fabrication. I’m laughing at Leo thinking he has a say in whether or not people see their families at Christmas and this only one household lark. Feck off ya gob****e.

charlie14 · 12-11-2020 07:02PM

polesheep wrote: »

Let's be honest, if the vulnerable cohort is largely vaccinated then the death rate is unlikely to be much different to the flu and probably less, as the flu vaccine doesn't catch all strains. So, again, why should Ticketmaster USA demand a Covid vaccine cert when they don't demand a flu vaccine cert despite an average 41,000 US citizens dying from flu every year? Of course, there is every possibility that they might demand a flu vaccine cert if they get away with demanding the Covid cert.

Ticketmaster are not a health care organisation. They are a commercial enterprise that are proposing this due to being aware of flu deaths on average being 41,000 a year compared to 244,421 in just eight months. They are obviously confident that it will not effect ticket sale.

They are not worried about anyone`s health.They know that the vast majority of their client base will be more comfortable attending events that conform to those proposals.

Plus, and a major plus for commercial enterprises, it would ensure no major outbreak of infections would be traced back to any of their events.
Commercially these proposals are a win win. If they were not a company with so much business savvy as Ticketmaster would not be proposing them

3xh · 12-11-2020 07:16PM

charlie14 wrote: »

it would ensure no major outbreak of infections would be traced back to any of their events.
Commercially these proposals are a win win. If they were not a company with so much business savvy as Ticketmaster would not be proposing them

Verifiably false.

The vaccine isn’t 100% effective. The pre-concert test isn’t 100% accurate.

No different to the report about just 1 unvaccinated passenger on a flight infecting 56 people, 1 vaccinated patron could contract it at this first concert and perhaps, more easily and quickly, go on to infect more than 56 others upon leaving with their false sense of good health.

And as launch customer of this eHealth idea, I’d be of the view ticketmaster are getting IBM’s/CVS’s services for free. In future, it won’t be. And so will be passed onto concert goers eventually.

Lose-lose.

charlie14 · 12-11-2020 07:30PM

3xh wrote: »

Verifiably false.

The vaccine isn’t 100% effective. The pre-concert test isn’t 100% accurate.

No different to the report about just 1 unvaccinated passenger on a flight infecting 56 people, 1 vaccinated patron could contract it at this first concert and perhaps, more easily and quickly, go on to infect more than 56 others upon leaving with their false sense of good health.

And as launch customer of this eHealth idea, I’d be of the view ticketmaster are getting IBM’s/CVS’s services for free. In future, it won’t be. And so will be passed onto concert goers eventually.

Lose-lose.

I really do not see what point you are making. How much higher do you believe the chances are of that happening where anybody can attend a venue rather than those who have passed a test or have been vaccinated ?
Do you not think that has come into Ticketmasters thinking and the subsequent publicity fallout when you compare one scenario to the other when it came to trace-back.

risteard7 · 12-11-2020 07:30PM

Sam Mconkey & Thòmas Ryan on RTE news next.
They might as well have Podge & Rodge on

TRANQUILLO · 12-11-2020 07:44PM

risteard7 wrote: »

Sam Mconkey & Thòmas Ryan on RTE news next.
They might as well have Podge & Rodge on

Ryan is fun cancer.

A dogmatic toe rag .

brisan · 12-11-2020 07:45PM

copeyhagen wrote: »

the only thing tha annoys me about the masks is im wearing conact lenses WAY more often now. i used to wear them daily until about two eyars ago when i noticed my vision was ****ed in the evenings. so i started wearing glasses more than the contacts, but now, if i know i have to go shops or anything im wearing the contacts as the glasses fog up no mater what mask or method ive tried..

cannot wait now until the masks are not required.

You can buy a spray that will stop the mask fogging up
We have to wear masks and safety goggles in work and the spray works for up to 8 hrs
Bolle make the one we use
Opticians should have it in stock

3xh · 12-11-2020 07:45PM

charlie14 wrote: »

I really do not see what point you are making. How much higher do you believe the chances are of that happening where anybody can attend a venue rather than those who have passed a test or have been vaccinated ?
Do you not think that has come into Ticketmasters thinking and the subsequent publicity fallout when you compare one scenario to the other when it came to trace-back.

You said this; ‘it would ensure no major outbreak of infections would be traced back to any of their events’

Vaccine e-certs and pre-tests will not ensure such, as per the example I gave.

The roll-out of such a program however, would further normalise this gross eHealth idea upon society. Beeping everywhere you go.

It’s simple; if governments said right now, ‘eHealth passports are coming now for all aspects of your life. Education, entertainment, travel, healthcare, sports, etc, there’d be rightly massive pushback.

But here we have eHealth passports ‘just’ for concerts arranged by one company in one country.

Frog in boiling water analogy.

You’re supporting a clear, needless, erosion of privacy and freedom of movement. You’ll regret it eventually as the means to implement this (Covid) won’t be why we’re still forced to use eHealth passports in years to come. It’ll be long gone but proving you’re healthy to do anything will be very much still enforced.

TRANQUILLO · 12-11-2020 07:50PM

3xh wrote: »

You said this; ‘it would ensure no major outbreak of infections would be traced back to any of their events’

Vaccine e-certs and pre-tests will not ensure such, as per the example I gave.

The roll-out of such a program however, would further normalise this gross eHealth idea upon society. Beeping everywhere you go.

It’s simple; if governments said right now, ‘eHealth passports are coming now for all aspects of your life. Education, entertainment, travel, healthcare, sports, etc, there’d be rightly massive pushback.

But here we have eHealth passports ‘just’ for concerts arranged by one company in one country.

Frog in boiling water analogy.

You’re supporting a clear, needless, erosion of privacy and freedom of movement. You’ll regret it eventually as the means to implement this (Covid) won’t be why we’re still forced to use eHealth passports in years to come. It’ll be long gone but proving you’re healthy to do anything will be very much still enforced.

100% its the thin end of the wedge.

USC was temporary.....look at it now. Bigger rate than it ever was.

Stay frosty folks. Some day you'll fail a faulty PCR test the day before a wedding or your family trip to Disneyland and it wont be covered by insurance.

Don't come crying........

3xh · 12-11-2020 07:53PM

Yep. Exactly.

brisan · 12-11-2020 07:55PM

JDD wrote: »

How are these related? I don't believe Level 3 restrictions are justifiable, both on the basis of the trajectory of infections and the cultural importance of Christmas. I believe the vaccine should be taken by those who can take it as soon as it is available, so that we can return to normality as soon as possible. These aren't mutually exclusive views - I see them as quite compatible.

As for link: https://www.hpra.ie/homepage/medicines/special-topics/hpv-school-immunisation/national-monitoring-experience#:~:text=Adverse%20Reaction%20(side%2Deffect)%20Reports&text=Vaccination%2Drelated%20events%2C%20occurring%20at,dizziness%20and%20injection%20site%20reactions.

Thats for a HPV vaccine
It was a flu vaccine that was in the narcolepsy cases
Vaccine manufacturers have paid out

suicide_circus · 12-11-2020 07:59PM

retro:electro wrote: »

It was always going to be this way. The “save Christmas” tag line was just a load of tripe to try and keep people in line. I’m laughing away here at the fact that they think they can keep people apart from their families at Christmas. Once December 1st comes around people are going to do what they like regardless of what they say, and the ones who thought they were sacrificing all to “save Christmas” will realise they were sold a pup and have put their lives on hold for a complete fabrication. I’m laughing at Leo thinking he has a say in whether or not people see their families at Christmas and this only one household lark. Feck off ya gob****e.

If the guards are out doing checkpoints or knocking on doors on December 25th there will be trouble.

Grueller Baby · 12-11-2020 08:01PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

If the guards are out doing checkpoints or knocking on doors on December 25th there will be trouble.

If they are then they should be utterly ashamed of themselves.

3xh · 12-11-2020 08:04PM

JDD, it’s the GSK Pandemrix issue you need to review.

7-8 years later and affected people are only getting properly sorted out financially.

GSK are also attempting to make a Covid vaccine.

speckle · 12-11-2020 08:24PM

Would like to see every member of the dail/nephet/hse heads/big pharma business ceo etc of what they do day to day, to see how many of them actualy follow the restrictions. And what their justifications are if not.

And if they are staying home etc ,how many people it takes to facilitate them that are on low incomes or zero hours contracts.

Then I would put them on the same rate of disabled persons and see how they deal with living on that at the moment.

speckle · 12-11-2020 08:27PM

brisan wrote: »

You can buy a spray that will stop the mask fogging up
We have to wear masks and safety goggles in work and the spray works for up to 8 hrs
Bolle make the one we use
Opticians should have it in stock

Be careful some sprays ruin the coating on normal glasses that otherwise can be used on safety goggles. Ask your optician.

brisan · 12-11-2020 08:28PM

polesheep wrote: »

There has been a poor level of compliance with the current lockdown, you can see it in the numbers, if not all around you. If the government make Christmas difficult for people they will lose even more buy-in.

Traffic tells you that straightaway
People are more or less putting two fingers up to the Government
Not all but a fair proportion

brisan · 12-11-2020 08:32PM

rob316 wrote: »

I read an article today of a woman warning people to take the virus seriously and wear a mask as her father and mother died of Covid. They were both 89. That's a fantastic age like, many don't reach that. Are we supposed to be deeply saddened by someone well above the average life expectancy dying?

Young chap and an old chap sitting at a bar
Young chap :How old are you ?
Old Chap : 90
Young chap :I would hate to be that old
Old Chap : Come back to me when you are 89 and tell me that again.
Every death is a sadness

FintanMcluskey · 12-11-2020 08:37PM

brisan wrote: »

Young chap and an old chap sitting at a bar
Young chap :How old are you ?
Old Chap : 90
Young chap :I would hate to be that old
Old Chap : Come back to me when you are 89 and tell me that again.
Every death is a sadness

If he’s healthy enough to be in a pub Covid won’t be an issue.

A substantial number of people are being kept alive with no quality of life thanks to modern healthcare, many 70 year olds can’t walk unassisted or dress them selves.

An adult conversation will have to take place I’m afraid

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings