Covid 19 Part XXVIII- 71,942 ROI(2,050 deaths) 51,824 NI (983 deaths) (28/11) Read OP

seamus · 11-11-2020 01:43PM

I think level 3 without the county restrictions and with an enhanced focus on reducing household contacts sounds like a decent compromise.

Level 3 allows for pubs and restaurants to have outside areas open. They may even increase the seating limit to 30.

If they can encourage people to do their Xmas socialising in these controlled environments and not in their homes, that will keep rates down.

Keeping pubs and restaurants closed is asking for people to have gatherings of 10+ in their homes.

We have to be realistic here. If options for socialising aren't available, people will make their own.

mloc123 · 11-11-2020 01:45PM

is_that_so wrote: »

County restrictions being relaxed is given. If you tweak it and all the other parts of Level 3 to make Christmas tolerable then it's Level 2. People will work around Level 2 but would flout Level 3 at a time like that and I doubt AGS would fancy managing that.

The original level 3 was up to 6 people in a house IIRC... I know they reduced it down afterwards. But, lift county restrictions and let me visit my family and honestly I don't care about pubs, cafes, shops etc..

Russman · 11-11-2020 01:45PM

AssetBacked2 wrote: »

Personal responsibility. In the same way we have not banned fast food outlets, processed sugary cereals, cigarettes, alcohol, driving etc.

That would stand up more if asymptomatic or presymptomatic transmission wasn't a thing.
No parent or grandparent will actively tell their kids or grandkids not to visit, from what I've seen its generally the younger ones telling granny they won't visit for a few weeks etc. But someone could make an assessment that they'll go somewhere they think is relatively low risk, catch it, subsequently visit granny and pass it on unknowingly.

AssetBacked2 · 11-11-2020 01:45PM

seamus wrote: »

I think level 3 without the county restrictions and with an enhanced focus on reducing household contacts sounds like a decent compromise.

Level 3 allows for pubs and restaurants to have outside areas open. They may even increase the seating limit to 30.

If they can encourage people to do their Xmas socialising in these controlled environments and not in their homes, that will keep rates down.

Keeping pubs and restaurants closed is asking for people to have gatherings of 10+ in their homes.

We have to be realistic here. If options for socialising aren't available, people will make their own.

Level 3 means having one other person from another household in your home. That is not going to work at all. It will be Level 2 with extra restrictions on pubs if anything.

mohawk · 11-11-2020 01:47PM

owlbethere wrote: »

Not really. It wouldnt hurt anyone to scale back on Christmas plans for one year only. Christmas day is only one day and I know there is usually a period of a week or two leading up to Christmas and after Christmas where people gather. It really wouldnt hurt people to scale Christmas back and reduce gatherings, and the amount of time people meet together. It's not great or ideal but what's that point of risking your health and that of others. I know of a family making plans now for Christmas Dinner numbers. There's approx 15 people from 6 different households and that's just the adults alone. All it takes is for one of them to be carrying the virus in the incubation stage for the whole lot to be put at risk. What is the point of that?

There's a vaccine on the way. Covid shouldnt be as much of a threat next year. Go nuts and all out next Christmas but God damn it, cool it down for one year only. What's the point of risking a covid infection and going into the new year with perhaps risk of long covid? Who wants to do that.

On one hand your post is reasonable it’s painting Christmas Day as just one day. However, we have had restrictions since March. That is a lot of family get togethers that have been cancelled since March. For many people their family and friends are the most important things in life. Once you take them away it’s not living it’s existing.

The longer it goes on the more people that will prioritise seeing their families and friends. If we can get people to reduce the numbers of people they usual see over the Christmas period it will make a difference. I don’t know how effective it would be to tell people to cut out seeing family altogether.
The more we can reduce the numbers now the less Covid that will be floating around in December

KrustyUCC · 11-11-2020 01:48PM

You're assuming next Christmas will be different

What if its the last one with your loved ones?

No point in scaling back plans there

mloc123 · 11-11-2020 01:49PM

mloc123 wrote: »

The original level 3 was up to 6 people in a house IIRC... I know they reduced it down afterwards. But, lift county restrictions and let me visit my family and honestly I don't care about pubs, cafes, shops etc..

Here is the original social limits, which were then changed when we went into national level 3

MerlinSouthDub · 11-11-2020 01:50PM

leanin2019 wrote: »

With the midterm and the lockdown coming at much the same time, you can't really draw any conclusions even anecdotical ones on whether that week off school had an impact.

But surely it had some impact, probably a decent impact, but not as much as the general lockdown; just guessing.

Cases have been falling at a very steady rate since 21st October. That includes the period when schools were open, closed for mid-term and now back open again. There is really nothing in the data that suggests schools have had any significant impact. I'm sure they have some impact but really the data is telling us it must be very small.

KrustyUCC · 11-11-2020 01:51PM

mloc123 wrote: »

Level 3 with county restrictions lifted would be grand IMO

I think they will need to go down this route as people won't abide by travel restrictions around Christmas

The government and NPHET must know that

billyhead · 11-11-2020 01:52PM

Church services with limited numbers will be allowed over Christmas

mloc123 · 11-11-2020 01:58PM

billyhead wrote: »

Church services with limited numbers will be allowed over Christmas

They will need to get ticketmaster involved to sell the tickets... all the people that go to mass once a year will be eager to get a front row ticket.

mohawk · 11-11-2020 01:59PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

You're assuming next Christmas will be different

What if its the last one with your loved ones?

No point in scaling back plans there

I have an acquaintance that fell out with a member of their family one year and didn’t go home for Christmas like they normally did. A couple months later they lost a brother under tragic circumstances. Missing that Christmas really eats away at them.

Also for anyone with very elderly parents or someone who has a very sick or terminally ill relative. This could be the last one for them to be together.

If they don’t lift the household visits restrictions I won’t judge those who decide to visit their families.

Widdensushi · 11-11-2020 02:00PM

normanoffside wrote: »

Nearly 60% of Covid patients in Hospital didn't have it on admission.
They got it while in Hospital; for other reasons

https://twitter.com/RiochtConor2/status/1326455354042048513

Surely all staff in hospitals /nursing homes, healthcare will get vaccine first

eagle eye · 11-11-2020 02:00PM

MerlinSouthDub wrote:

I think the anti-school gang have finally realised that there is no data to support their apparent view that schools are a hotbed of infection risk. Teachers and school management have done a fantastic job at keeping schools as safe as possible, and all credit to them.

Just seen this balderdash now.

Let's be clear, there is no anti-school brigade. We all want our kids in school, we just to make sure it's safe to have them there.

What we've seen to this point is a lack of transparency from the HSE and the government as regards cases in school.
It appears that they apportion blame for every school case on community transmission outside schools without actual proof.

We are about ten days to two weeks away from seeing if schools are affecting things. If the numbers jump upwards in that time span then we know schools that are a problem.

I've kept my kids at home all along. If there is no jump in the next two weeks then they'll go back to school. If there is a jump they'll stay at home.

It's about me being responsible for my kids health. I'm not taking the chance, with all I've learned about this virus, of any of them contracting it and being one of the unlucky ones that suffers with it or with long covid.

I'm looking forward to a vaccine becoming available and going back to normal. I'm not and never have been a doom monger, I think rationally about things and always err on the side of caution as far as my kids health is concerned.

As regards data, I s misleading because there's clearly a lack of transparency. I wouldn't trust the government to be honest about anything, I wouldn't trust number crunchers and political types in the HSE either.
My own GP who I do trust refrains from giving advice about kids going to school. I can read between the lines and understand that he doesn't think schools are safe but he can't say it.

owlbethere · 11-11-2020 02:06PM

mohawk wrote: »

On one hand your post is reasonable it’s painting Christmas Day as just one day. However, we have had restrictions since March. That is a lot of family get togethers that have been cancelled since March. For many people their family and friends are the most important things in life. Once you take them away it’s not living it’s existing.

The longer it goes on the more people that will prioritise seeing their families and friends. If we can get people to reduce the numbers of people they usual see over the Christmas period it will make a difference. I don’t know how effective it would be to tell people to cut out seeing family altogether.
The more we can reduce the numbers now the less Covid that will be floating around in December

This year has been a pack of sh1t all around, I must admit and it was hard for many people for so many different reasons.

If it was me meeting up in a large household/indoor gathering, I would need to know everyone like the back of my hand and be able to trust them that they are doing the right thing as in they are not a close contact of a covid positive case and carrying virus in the incubation stage. For me that risk is just far too much and I will continue to follow the public health guidelines of keeping contacts low. I will treat Christmas like a bank holiday and tgrow myself into my hobbies.

Your second paragraph is key, for sure. The less virus circulating in December the better. If people do intend on meeting up in a large family gatherings, I think such people would be better off restricting their movements and keeping contacts low in the week or 2 prior to the gathering so that, it would be less risk of covid within the household gathering. If everyone did that, it would be grand but everybody probably won't do that.

Eod100 · 11-11-2020 02:07PM

Gael23 wrote: »

Talk of Level 3 for Christmas. People won’t take that

Where did you see that?

KrustyUCC · 11-11-2020 02:08PM

mohawk wrote: »

I have an acquaintance that fell out with a member of their family one year and didn’t go home for Christmas like they normally did. A couple months later they lost a brother under tragic circumstances. Missing that Christmas really eats away at them.

Also for anyone with very elderly parents or someone who has a very sick or terminally ill relative. This could be the last one for them to be together.

If they don’t lift the household visits restrictions I won’t judge those who decide to visit their families.

Yes exactly

My nana is 92 and has recently had a stroke

No way in hell my aunt who lives in Dublin won't travel home to see her

The amount of families in that boat must be staggering

Or those that have partners in other counties

Travel restrictions will be ignored enmasse I think

owlbethere · 11-11-2020 02:08PM

billyhead wrote: »

Church services with limited numbers will be allowed over Christmas

I'm going to miss this so much this year. I love listening to Christmas choir.

11-11-2020 02:10PM

It will be tough on a lot of businesses for about 6 months. There should be some sort of tax, rent and rates amnesty for businesses until things get back to normal.

I heard about a hotelier who last week, was trying to reason with his insurance company as to why he has to pay public liability for the months he has been closed, because there is nobody in the buildings. Likewise, county council rates should be suspended.

11-11-2020 02:12PM

polesheep wrote: »

Maybe he hadn't been in contact with his sister or his mother.

He had been, and his 4 year old child had to be tested as he was down with a bad flu, but tested negative.

KrustyUCC · 11-11-2020 02:16PM

Covid-19: Expert suggests delaying Christmas until late January to help crush virus

Dr Tómas Ryan, Associate Professor in the School of Biochemistry and Immunology at Trinity College, has warned that the country could find itself back at 1,000 cases a day by January if Level 5 restrictions were lifted as planned on December 1.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40079903.html

He's some laugh Tómas Ryan

Talk about impractical

Nice scaremongering about cases too

is_that_so · 11-11-2020 02:16PM

owlbethere wrote: »

I'm going to miss this so much this year. I love listening to Christmas choir.

There's always a quality selection of carol services on TV on Christmas Eve.

Eod100 · 11-11-2020 02:17PM

See Tomas Ryan is suggesting people could have Christmas at end of January. Seems daft on face of it but guess it might not be as bonkers idea really in scheme of things. But obviously issues with people not having as much time off then among other issues.

Still 5 and a bit weeks to go. Wonder if people would accept more restrictions after 1st December if it meant cases were even lower around 22nd to 1st say.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40079903.html

AssetBacked2 · 11-11-2020 02:17PM

seamus wrote: »

I think level 3 without the county restrictions and with an enhanced focus on reducing household contacts sounds like a decent compromise.

Level 3 allows for pubs and restaurants to have outside areas open. They may even increase the seating limit to 30.

If they can encourage people to do their Xmas socialising in these controlled environments and not in their homes, that will keep rates down.

Keeping pubs and restaurants closed is asking for people to have gatherings of 10+ in their homes.

We have to be realistic here. If options for socialising aren't available, people will make their own.

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Covid-19: Expert suggests delaying Christmas until late January to help crush virus

Dr Tómas Ryan, Associate Professor in the School of Biochemistry and Immunology at Trinity College, has warned that the country could find itself back at 1,000 cases a day by January if Level 5 restrictions were lifted as planned on December 1.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40079903.html

He's some laugh Tómas Ryan

Talk about impractical

Nice scaremongering about cases too

What a bellend Tomas Ryan. Total and utter knob. He is a health advisor, he has no insight to the social and economic issues at play. Utter tool.

stephenjmcd · 11-11-2020 02:18PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Covid-19: Expert suggests delaying Christmas until late January to help crush virus

Dr Tómas Ryan, Associate Professor in the School of Biochemistry and Immunology at Trinity College, has warned that the country could find itself back at 1,000 cases a day by January if Level 5 restrictions were lifted as planned on December 1.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40079903.html

He's some laugh Tómas Ryan

Talk about impractical

Nice scaremongering about cases too

Ah I see he's using this now to push the zero covid stuff again.

Guess he has to try and stay relevant somehow

stephenjmcd · 11-11-2020 02:20PM

Eod100 wrote: »

Still 5 and a bit weeks to go. Wonder if people would accept more restrictions after 1st December if it meant cases were even lower around 22nd to 1st

Its a completely bonkers idea.

Not a chance, the whole thing about the 1st is to reopen retail for Christmas. That ain't going to change. His whole point is pushing zero covid which has openly been dismissed here.

They've said 6 weeks and that's it, I dont think public support is there for any more.

11-11-2020 02:20PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Just seen this balderdash now.

Let's be clear, there is no anti-school brigade. We all want our kids in school, we just to make sure it's safe to have them there.

What we've seen to this point is a lack of transparency from the HSE and the government as regards cases in school.
It appears that they apportion blame for every school case on community transmission outside schools without actual proof.

We are about ten days to two weeks away from seeing if schools are affecting things. If the numbers jump upwards in that time span then we know schools that are a problem.

I've kept my kids at home all along. If there is no jump in the next two weeks then they'll go back to school. If there is a jump they'll stay at home.

It's about me being responsible for my kids health. I'm not taking the chance, with all I've learned about this virus, of any of them contracting it and being one of the unlucky ones that suffers with it or with long covid.

I'm looking forward to a vaccine becoming available and going back to normal. I'm not and never have been a doom monger, I think rationally about things and always err on the side of caution as far as my kids health is concerned.

As regards data, I s misleading because there's clearly a lack of transparency. I wouldn't trust the government to be honest about anything, I wouldn't trust number crunchers and political types in the HSE either.
My own GP who I do trust refrains from giving advice about kids going to school. I can read between the lines and understand that he doesn't think schools are safe but he can't say it.

How was the effect of schools closing there within 7 days if its going to take another 10 days to two weeks to see the effect of them opening

Posted on the 30th/10, 7 days after schools closed

eagle eye wrote:

Schools are closed 7 days. You'll see the full affect after ten days but it affects things day by day growing as the days go by.
That applies to all changes good or bad.

So many clueless people here.

eagle eye wrote:

Numbers dropping while schools are closed. Interesting

eagle eye wrote:

And this all happening while the schools are closed.

11-11-2020 02:21PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Covid-19: Expert suggests delaying Christmas until late January to help crush virus

Dr Tómas Ryan, Associate Professor in the School of Biochemistry and Immunology at Trinity College, has warned that the country could find itself back at 1,000 cases a day by January if Level 5 restrictions were lifted as planned on December 1.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40079903.html

He's some laugh Tómas Ryan

Talk about impractical

Nice scaremongering about cases too

Id have to agree with him. He is a doctor who is a professor in the school of Biochemistry and Immunology. Scoff at his recommendations at your peril.

Eod100 · 11-11-2020 02:21PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Not a chance, the whole thing about the 1st is to reopen retail for Christmas. That ain't going to change.

They've said 6 weeks and that's it, I dont think public support is there for any more.

Sure retail will likely open but I don't see pubs open for indoors say so there will still be some level of restrictions, whether people like it or not unfortunately.

Leftwaffe · 11-11-2020 02:21PM

Why doesn't Ryan think of solutions that are actually plausible instead of this utter tripe

Covid 19 Part XXVIII- 71,942 ROI(2,050 deaths) 51,824 NI (983 deaths) (28/11) Read OP

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