Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings

10-11-2020 1:06am

MelbourneMan wrote: »

Hello. I am guessing that you are referring here to events entirely unrelated to the corona pandemic, and think it entirely inappropriate at this time.

I would concur with the posting above that the quality of advice, and indeed the general conduct of the government in taking heed of it in their decision making, leadership, and implementation of counter corona measures, has been on the whole, been very good, and stands up very well to international comparison with its equivalents in other jurisdictions.

And concur also with the observation that there seems to be a strong anti-authority, anti-government, anti-establishment, and even anti-expert, tendency amongst a small group of posters hereabouts. This is most unhelpful, when the benefits of a population pulling together, giving its elected representatives support, and acknowledging the work of its most expert professionals in the field most required at this time, should not be underestimated.

You are either part of the problem, or part of the solution, goes an old phrase.

Pedantry to the point of parody, like reading a doctored press release. You're not fooling anyone with this schtick. Twisting the narrative to decry "anti-expert" feeling, when you know full well that hundreds of thousands of people forced out of employment have had it to here with the condescension of a handful of individuals bulletproof in their respective roles. The retail and hospitality sectors have been unfairly maligned through no fault of their own, let's ignore the economic and psychological fallout for the sake of "acknowledging the expert professionals". You ought to be ashamed of yourself with this cynical carry on, find a more constructive hobby than winding up posters at their wits' end.

bucketybuck · 10-11-2020 1:06am

nofools wrote: »

First incarnation?

Why did you raise it if isn't a smear attempt? Others were using "cervical tony".

Very disrespectful to all sides of that sad story.

Why did I respond to posters who had said they never heard of Tony Holohan before by making the point that he was already very visible in the public eye due to his involvement in one of the worst medical scandals in the states history?

Because it was directly relevant to the point made, thats why.

SusieBlue · 10-11-2020 1:10am

nofools wrote: »

The anti lockdown view is the anti science view.

You can't ignore the data and pretend you are objective. I gather that most opinions here are formed from just the data in Ireland. There is plenty more which should knock you out of your inertia if you have any genuine honesty and haven't nailed your colours to the mast already.

If the basis for your opinion is looking at data from other countries then I’m sure you agree that Ireland got it very, very wrong during the summer when we had the most drawn out roadmap for easing of restrictions on earth.

Where was the support for the European data then? Why was it safe to open up all industries in the majority of other countries at least two months before it was safe to open just some of them here, even though there was no community transmission, less than 5 cases per day, and deaths were at an all time low?

Elessar · 10-11-2020 1:10am

nofools wrote: »

They are not in the same position by an objective look at the data....we are trying to avoid getting there.

To call a spade a spade, you are ignoring the truth to suit your terribly wrong arguments.

Who's truth, yours?

Go ahead, tell me.

road_high · 10-11-2020 1:11am

nofools wrote: »

Of course it is possible, otherwise how do you explain the difference between the top 5 and the bottom five worst affected?

You are simply denying the obvious.

Could be any number of reasons. Increased social distancing, conscience efforts on the parts of people to not be in contact- all could be done without shutting down the local bookstore for example- none of this is sustainable but getting that through to some is like talking to a brick wall as their ingrained fear of actually living and a respiratory virus is so strong that the bigger picture has disappeared. It’s brainwashing on a national scale and it’s so pathetic it’s beyond words for me.

nofools · 10-11-2020 1:13am

SusieBlue wrote: »

If the basis for your opinion is looking at data from other countries then I’m sure you agree that Ireland got it very, very wrong during the summer when we had the most drawn out roadmap for easing of restrictions on earth.

Where was the support for the European data then? Why was it safe to open up all industries in the majority of other countries at least two months before it was safe to open just some of them here, even though there was no community transmission, less than 5 cases per day, and deaths were at an all time low?

It seemed wrong then but hindsight is a great educator.

nofools · 10-11-2020 1:17am

road_high wrote: »

Could be any number of reasons. Increased social distancing, conscience efforts on the parts of people to not be in contact- all could be done without shutting down the local bookstore for example- none of this is sustainable but getting that through to some is like talking to a brick wall as their ingrained fear of actually living and a respiratory virus is so strong that the bigger picture has disappeared. It’s brainwashing on a national scale and it’s so pathetic it’s beyond words for me.

Lockdown has become a catchall term for all acts of restricted human contact and abnormal living. Scientifically it is the same. The thing you pretended to believe in with your post above.

Of course it isn't sustainable that is why the likes of you and others here railing against things is just ****ing your own ass in the long run. This forum is simply an alternative form of the same brainwashing.

That to me is what is pathetic.

CalamariFritti · 10-11-2020 1:19am

charlie14 wrote: »

You are attempting to come up with a figure on confirmed cases based on nothing but guesswork whereas I have provided you with statistics. Not just for here, Sweden, and various other countries, but also worldwide.

I could as easily counter your guesswork by playing the same game. Guessing without anything to back it up that there are a greater number of deaths than are being reported.
That would equate to there then being two of us guessing in a land of the blind.

Nothing personal but you're just being silly on this. Not sure what you think you're going to achieve with that.

Mean Laqueefa · 10-11-2020 1:34am

nofools wrote: »

Lockdown has become a catchall term for all acts of restricted human contact and abnormal living. Scientifically it is the same. The thing you pretended to believe in with your post above.

Of course it isn't sustainable that is why the likes of you and others here railing against things is just ****ing your own ass in the long run. This forum is simply an alternative form of the same brainwashing.

That to me is what is pathetic.

Are you some type of robot or something its like propaganda with ye ?

Im in the middle btw on all of it restrictions wise

its just you come across as arrogant or more in the know, but believe everyone should have an opinion, yet dismiss claims of opposing views

Thread has become a farce

nofools · 10-11-2020 1:39am

Mean Laqueefa wrote: »

Are you some type of robot or something its like propaganda with ye ?

Im in the middle btw on all of it restrictions wise

its just you come across as arrogant or more in the know, but believe everyone should have an opinion, yet dismiss claims of opposing views

Thread has become a farce

I think the matter is serious and you are right I have very little respect for people who refuse to see what is in front of them. If that comes across as arrogant fine, i am simply applying the scientific method to the problem and dealing with the equivalent of flat earthers.

It has become a farce, the same sort of unidirectional message its inhabitants don't enjoy when it comes from RTE.

end of the road · 10-11-2020 1:41am

road_high wrote: »

Nah, we never left the first one fully and had various incarnations in between- all pathetic failures. Just like this one will be too as you’ll be back in 6 weeks time with the same virtue signalling. Rinse and repeat until National bankruptcy

we left the first one in june.
the first lock down was a success, this one is a success also as cases are going down.
there isn't going to be national bankruptsy, i beleive that recently there were figures posted showing that tax income is at a good level, possibly even up compared to last year, i can't remember, but it was good news whatever it was.

Micky 32 · 10-11-2020 1:41am

nofools wrote: »

I think the matter is serious and you are right I have very little respect for people who refuse to see what is in front of them. If that comes across as arrogant fine, i am simplify applying the scientific method to the problem and dealing with the equivalent of flat earthers.

Well now that’s just tough titty. Suck it up that people have different opinions than your own.

nofools · 10-11-2020 1:48am

Micky 32 wrote: »

Well now that’s just tough titty. Suck it up that people have different opinions than your own.

I'm sure i will be quoting this back to you soon Micky.

People seem very upset with what I say here or even my presence in the echo chamber but never actually take on my arguments head first.

I wonder why?

Micky 32 · 10-11-2020 1:50am

nofools wrote: »

I'm sure i will be quoting this back to you soon Micky.

People seem very upset with what I say here or even my presence in the echo chamber but never actually take on my arguments head first.

I wonder why?

You don’t value anyone else opinions on here regardless right or wrong what do you expect?. You then resort to that nasty comment a few posts back, that was more “ pathetic” .

Your argument lock us up and feck everyone else.

nofools · 10-11-2020 1:57am

Micky 32 wrote: »

You don’t value anyone else opinions on here regardless right or wrong what do you expect?. You then resort to that nasty comment a few posts back, that was more “ pathetic” .

Your argument lock us up and feck everyone else.

Don't be so oversensitive

Micky 32 · 10-11-2020 1:58am

nofools wrote: »

Don't be so oversensitive

Pot calling the kettle black and all that .....

nofools · 10-11-2020 2:02am

Micky 32 wrote: »

Pot calling the kettle black and all that .....

I'm not sensitive. The more I get called names the more I laugh about it.

Anyway Micky goodnight.

I'll dig out the laptop and put you on ignore tomorrow

patnor1011 · 10-11-2020 3:40am

CorkRed93 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Orla_Hegarty/status/1325362325445107712

wonder if Government incentivised businesses to improve indoor air quality and ventilation would it help us enjoy a more "normal" xmas and life up until vaccine.

I do not care about Christmas. I however do have issues with "indoor air quality and ventilation" in schools.
My daughter is barely coping and will most likely go down with something soon after sitting in a class with zero heating on and windows opened. This approach of "saving" them from covid is insane - kids sitting in a cold room with a constant cold draft for like 8 hours a day.
I wonder if we can invent more of these idiotic rules, like when it will be enough?

Penfailed · 10-11-2020 7:44am

road_high wrote: »

Nah, we never left the first one fully and had various incarnations in between- all pathetic failures. Just like this one will be too as you’ll be back in 6 weeks time with the same virtue signalling. Rinse and repeat until National bankruptcy

We never left the first one fully? In that case, you must accept that neither did most of Europe.

10-11-2020 8:45am

nofools wrote: »

They can't admit they are completely wrong.

At least some of the other cheerleaders seem to have left and it is just a few die hards who haven't got the memo.

Most people aren't fully ahdering to the lockdowns. There's a poll on another thread and I think over half admitted they're flouting the 'rules' (albeit most in a more cautious way).

People have lost interest in the whole lockdown thing. They can see that a virus with less than 0.1% fatality rate for majority of the population doesn't justify turning their life completely upside down for. The death figures are very low, and the average age of Corona deaths is the same as the average age of people dying anyway.

You can champion lockdowns all you want and stay in your house until your government tell you it's safe to leave. The rest of us will get on with our lives. Not having a go at you, but it's just reality.

Beasty · 10-11-2020 9:11am

bucketybuck wrote: »

Since the cervical cancer scandal is not the sort of thing that should be easily forgotten, so many people did indeed know who Tony Holahan was. Not all of them are still with us unfortunately.

Drop the Cervical Cancer check talk - this forum is about Coronavirus

Elessar · 10-11-2020 9:29am

nofools wrote: »

I think the matter is serious and you are right I have very little respect for people who refuse to see what is in front of them. If that comes across as arrogant fine, i am simply applying the scientific method to the problem and dealing with the equivalent of flat earthers.

It has become a farce, the same sort of unidirectional message its inhabitants don't enjoy when it comes from RTE.

You couldn't answer my question I see. Sure who needs reasoned debate when you can just spout platitudes and call people wrong without any backup to your point of view. Scientific method indeed.

I can play that game too. You are wrong, plain and simple.

But you would never know that, since you refuse to see any other points of view.

Anyway as soon as I've nothing better to do you're going on the ignore list.

Imagine having to defend your right to question authority and leadership that completely overhauled your life, and then have to deal with people who can't make a reasoned argument other than "you're wrong". I think its an Irish thing :rolleyes:

road_high · 10-11-2020 10:02am

Imagine a country where an unelected medical autocrat decides if and when shops etc are going to reopen for Christmas - by jasus he isn’t giving it up anytime soon that’s for sure
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/holohan-rules-out-early-advice-to-shops-pubs-and-restaurants-for-christmas-39728316.html

Meanwhile in Wales shops have actually reopened- and remember the furore over there about it all.

normanoffside · 10-11-2020 10:09am

road_high wrote: »

Imagine a country where an unelected medical autocrat decides if and when shops etc are going to reopen for Christmas - by jasus he isn’t giving it up anytime soon that’s for sure
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/holohan-rules-out-early-advice-to-shops-pubs-and-restaurants-for-christmas-39728316.html

Meanwhile in Wales shops have actually reopened- and remember the furore over there about it all.

Ability to test and trace is now very important according to Holohan. A few weeks ago when the system collapsed and we were sent into level 5, it wasn’t important.

10-11-2020 10:11am

end of the road wrote: »

the only people who are engaging in hysterics as far as i can see are the anti-restrictions crowd because they know the game is up and the majority do not want anything to do with them.

Again, my friend, you're saying what you want to be true as opposed to what actually *is* true. Over half of people are not adhering to lockdown rules. See the poll on other thread.

Better yet, walk outside and see for yourself. People meeting up and hanging out, going to their parents houses, visiting their friends, playing sports etc etc. The only game that is 'up', is lockdown itself.

In the end, the deadly virus turned out to be not so deadly. We move on.

Allinall · 10-11-2020 10:13am

normanoffside wrote: »

Ability to test and trace is now very important according to Holohan. A few weeks ago when the system collapsed and we were sent into level 5, it wasn’t important.

Show where anyone anywhere said that test and trace wasn't important?

road_high · 10-11-2020 10:13am

normanoffside wrote: »

Ability to test and trace is now very important according to Holohan. A few weeks ago when the system collapsed and we were sent into level 5, it wasn’t important.

The goalposts change every 5 minutes- keep it going into ad finitum. There’s good money to be made for certain cohorts out of all of this.

FrStone · 10-11-2020 10:13am

end of the road wrote: »

we left the first one in june.
the first lock down was a success, this one is a success also as cases are going down.
there isn't going to be national bankruptsy, i beleive that recently there were figures posted showing that tax income is at a good level, possibly even up compared to last year, i can't remember, but it was good news whatever it was.

Well if this is the level of economic literacy people have we are screwed.

normanoffside · 10-11-2020 10:25am

Allinall wrote: »

Show where anyone anywhere said that test and trace wasn't important?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40069661.html

Ireland’s contact tracing cannot be used to reverse the spread of Covid-19 alone, the chief medical officer has warned.

Dr Tony Holohan was speaking at the first National Public Health Emergency Team (Nphet) briefing since the country entered Level 5 lockdown.

“We’re not going to contact trace our way out of an exponential growth in the virus.

“It’s not reasonable to think that you can contact trace large burdens of infection and hope that it will allow you to carry large burdens going forward.

“There’s still a huge exercise under way with relation to contact tracing and much that we can learn from it, but it’s now back to us as individuals. The Government isn’t going to wash your hands for you.”

Dr Holohan said he was “not overly worried” by the breakdown of the system this week, which has led to 2,000 positive cases being asked to carry out their own tracing.

AssetBacked2 · 10-11-2020 10:36am

nofools wrote: »

The anti lockdown view is the anti science view.

You can't ignore the data and pretend you are objective. I gather that most opinions here are formed from just the data in Ireland. There is plenty more which should knock you out of your inertia if you have any genuine honesty and haven't nailed your colours to the mast already.

Yawn; ignorant post.

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/epidemiologyofcovid-19inireland/

8 months now we have been collating covid data. Apparently, only 64000 positive tests have been recorded but that number seems an incredibly low number of people in Ireland to have had covid considering how virulent covid is supposed to be. There doesn't seem to be an appetite to test how many in the population may have had covid which is peculiar to say the least. Nonetheless, I think we can all agree far in excess of 64000 people have had covid in Ireland.

Even based on the 64000 positive tests, in 8 months, this is the data which shows that pro-restrictions on economic and social life (which disproportionately impact those of working and schoolgoing age) is anti-data, anti-science ignorance. I will split it between the over 55s and under 55s as there is a clear difference in how covid affects these age groups. Just to note that only 24% of the population is over 55, while 76% are under 55.

Under 55s, in 8 months;
47000 positive tests

181 people admitted to ICU "with covid"

49 people died "with covid"

In a year that works out at around 74 people dying "with covid". Wow, lockdown society for this devastating virus :rolleyes:

Over 55s (but under the age of 85 given that is life expectancy in Ireland), in 8 months;
14000 positive tests

380 people admitted to ICU "with covid"

908 people died "with covid"

All deaths; 94.05% had underlying clinical conditions.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings