Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings

charlie14 · 09-11-2020 12:32AM

Cyrus wrote: »

Why are you referring to surveys ?

Test results are the same principal statistically as a survey. Less of a plus or minus statistically from tests results in fact.

09-11-2020 12:37AM

nofools wrote: »

No kids and I rent, income decimated.

What difference does it make?

I'll add that I'm not going to cry about it like a little b*tch, but look to the future and adapt and rebuild.

We all have that capacity unless we are disabled or dead.

No offence but you have no kids and are only renting so it is not difficult to rebuild. Rental contracts in Ireland are generally only 1 year and landlords will never chase you down if you breach it anyways.

A homeowner though... you are the banks bit*h for 30 odd years. Don’t make repayments and you lose your home and your credit rating will be destroyed. And/Or you could end up in negative equity.

I won’t even get started on kids.

nofools · 09-11-2020 12:41AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No offence but you have no kids and are only renting so it is not difficult to rebuild. Rental contracts in Ireland are generally only 1 year and landlords will never chase you down if you breach it anyways.

A homeowner though... you are the banks bit*h for 30 odd years. Don’t make repayments and you lose your home and your credit rating will be destroyed. And/Or you could end up in negative equity.

I won’t even get started on kids.

They are two lovely stories you just invented and i have more integrity than not paying someone for services rendered. Says a lot....

And you people say I have no empathy.

Renters lives matter too

Micky 32 · 09-11-2020 12:43AM

nofools wrote: »

They are two lovely stories you just invented.

And you people say I have no empathy.

Renters lives matter too

Families struggling with mortgages are in a worse situation than you whatever way you look at it.

09-11-2020 12:54AM

nofools wrote: »

They are two lovely stories you just invented and i have more integrity than not paying someone for services rendered. Says a lot....

And you people say I have no empathy.

Renters lives matter too

There is a big difference between a 1 year lease and a 30 year mortgage with a bank.

It is not that difficult to rebuild as you say if things go wrong during a 1 year lease.

Home ownership has its perks of course. But if things wrong... you can end up in a very serious situation that will potentially impact you for the remainder of your life.

Many people from 2008 are still screwed to this day...

nofools · 09-11-2020 01:03AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There is a big difference between a 1 year lease and a 30 year mortgage with a bank.

It is not that difficult to rebuild as you say if things go wrong during a 1 year lease.

Home ownership has its perks of course. But if things wrong... you can end up in a very serious situation that will potentially impact you for the remainder of your life.

Many people from 2008 are still screwed to this day...

Renters are more at risk of homelessness Saint Jac

30 years is a very long time span for this argument of yours.

BeefeaterHat · 09-11-2020 01:05AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There is a big difference between a 1 year lease and a 30 year mortgage with a bank.

It is not that difficult to rebuild as you say if things go wrong during a 1 year lease.

Home ownership has its perks of course. But if things wrong... you can end up in a very serious situation that will potentially impact you for the remainder of your life.

Many people from 2008 are still screwed to this day...

You don't understand this poster. Anything that doesn't revolve around him is irrelevant. He doesn't have dependants or a mortgage so it's nothing to worry about.

nofools · 09-11-2020 01:07AM

BeefeaterHat wrote: »

You don't understand this poster. Anything that doesn't revolve around him is irrelevant. He doesn't have dependants or a mortgage so it's nothing to worry about.

I'm losing my patience with such stupid arguments.

09-11-2020 01:10AM

nofools wrote: »

Renters are more at risk of homelessness Saint Jac

30 years is a very long time span for this argument of yours.

Are you renting a property or do you mean paying your ma some rent money?

BeefeaterHat · 09-11-2020 01:14AM

nofools wrote: »

I'm losing my patience with such stupid arguments.

I just hope you appreciate that someone renting with no children has nowhere near the responsibility and stress that someone paying a mortgage and raising kids has and how covid will disproportionately affect them economically

nofools · 09-11-2020 01:17AM

BeefeaterHat wrote: »

I just hope you appreciate that someone renting with no children has nowhere near the responsibility and stress that someone paying a mortgage and raising kids has and how covid will disproportionately affect them economically

I hope you appreciate that every situation is different.

end of the road · 09-11-2020 01:28AM

Micky 32 wrote: »

You don’t have a mortgage and kids, you just rent ffs. I doubt your current situation is bad.

in a lot of cases rent is higher then a mortgage repayment.
so realistically it doesn't matter what you think about his situation, his situation is what it is and you can't disprove that his situation is or isn't bad or good.

Micky 32 wrote: »

Give over, you know well evictions are banned during the pandemic.

they are yes, but the rent still needs to be payed.

BeefeaterHat wrote: »

I just hope you appreciate that someone renting with no children has nowhere near the responsibility and stress that someone paying a mortgage and raising kids has and how covid will disproportionately affect them economically

he can't appreciate such as it's a blanket statement that cannot be made across the board as everyone's situation and circumstances are different.

nofools · 09-11-2020 01:31AM

Still with the fake moralising for families by those who don't give a **** about your grandparents.

09-11-2020 01:33AM

nofools wrote: »

Still with the fake moralising for families by those who don't give a **** about your grandparents.

What on earth are you even posting about?

Micky 32 · 09-11-2020 01:33AM

end of the road wrote: »

in a lot of cases rent is higher then a mortgage repayment.
so realistically it doesn't matter what you think about his situation, his situation is what it is and you can't disprove that his situation is or isn't bad or good.

Are you really posting this rubbish?? You have less to lose if you’re a single guy with no kids and you default on your rent especially if someone is renting off mammy. You just find somewhere else. It’s a totally different scenario a family losing their home.

BeefeaterHat · 09-11-2020 01:36AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What on earth are you even posting about?

Between him and the bloke who believes covid kills 3 percent of people who get it I'm just left emotionally drained from it all.

nofools · 09-11-2020 01:37AM

The kings of lazy character assassination.

No I don't live with my mother.

Any chance you might discuss the topic or do you want to start guessing my bank balance and the type of car i drive so you can draw more wrong conclusions?

Micky 32 · 09-11-2020 01:38AM

nofools wrote: »

Still with the fake moralising for families by those who don't give a **** about your grandparents.

You just argued against your own argument regarding your “fake moralising”,

nofools · 09-11-2020 01:39AM

BeefeaterHat wrote: »

Between him and the bloke who believes covid kills 3 percent of people who get it I'm just left emotionally drained from it all.

If you are getting emotional you should go do something more wholesome than this.

nofools · 09-11-2020 01:39AM

Micky 32 wrote: »

You just argued against your own argument regarding your “fake moralising”,

No i did not, get over it will you

Micky 32 · 09-11-2020 01:40AM

nofools wrote: »

No i did not, get over it will you

Using the “ you’re gonna kill your grandparents “ ffs

BeefeaterHat · 09-11-2020 01:41AM

nofools wrote: »

No i did not, get over it will you

Sounds like you're the one getting emotional

charlie14 · 09-11-2020 01:54AM

BeefeaterHat wrote: »

Between him and the bloke who believes covid kills 3 percent of people who get it I'm just left emotionally drained from it all.

I imagine it can get very draining attempting to misrepresent other posters while at the same time ignoring basis statistical facts because neither suit your argument.

But then those are the choices you made, so really nobody to blame other than yourself for your present emotional state.

BeefeaterHat · 09-11-2020 02:08AM

charlie14 wrote: »

I imagine it can get very draining attempting to misrepresent other posters while at the same time ignoring basis statistical facts because neither suit your argument.

But then those are the choices you made, so really nobody to blame other than yourself for your present emotional state.

I was obviously being tongue in cheek when I said emotionally drained but okay.

pheasant tail · 09-11-2020 02:27AM

nofools wrote: »

I agree.

End of the road, you forgot to thank this post.....

Cyrus · 09-11-2020 08:06AM

charlie14 wrote: »

Those are the statistics from countries own health authorities. I do not see ant basis to question them. The deaths are real and if they are testing large numbers then their confirmed cases are as close to the positivity figure at any given times as makes no difference.

They are ‘statistics’ where the numerator is the only number with any certainty (even that I’d take some issue with as it appears it’s getting overstated somewhat), the denominator is grossly understated .

But it suits your agenda so you keep blindly referring to it.

Cyrus · 09-11-2020 08:08AM

charlie14 wrote: »

Test results are the same principal statistically as a survey. Less of a plus or minus statistically from tests results in fact.

I think the point you are trying to make is that if we are testing 100k a week then we are identifying all of the positive Covid cases in the country .

Explain how that is so, because it makes no sense to me.

patnor1011 · 09-11-2020 09:55AM

German Doctors Letter to Chancellor Merkel, Put an End to the Covid “Fear Machine”

Dear Chancellor Dr. Merkel,

We, the signatories, are doctors from all areas of healthcare, who have been serving people in practices and clinics for decades. During this time, we have witnessed more than one seasonal infection in Germany, most of them with far more severe conditions and significantly more deaths than since January 2020 from COVID infectious diseases. Together we serve approx. 70.000 people.

The circumstances of the coronavirus wave in the FRG have been perceived differently than the media and the ongoing warnings of politics, which were unjustified in fact, presented to the public for months. Predictions of individual advisory virologists with millions of seriously ill and hundreds of thousands of deaths in Germany have not been true in any way.

In the practices, hardly any infected patients were infected and if, then with normal, mostly mild progressions of virus flu. The hospitals have been more empty than ever before. There was no overload of ICU. Doctors, doctors and nurses were skillful in short-term work. Initially, we found the wave of the virus running towards us to be threatening and were able to understand the infection protection measures. However, there are months of secured evidence and facts that this wave of the virus is only slightly more intense than an ordinary seasonal flu and must be considered much more harmless than, for example, influenza infection in 2017/2018 with 27.000 deaths in Germany. According to the data situation, there hasn’t been a threat to the German population from Covid-19 for months.

This must be the reason to return to normal life in Germany – a life without restrictions, fear and infection hysteria.

We’re increasingly seeing older people with depression, young children and adolescents with severe anxiety and behavioral disorders, people with severe conditions who could have been cured in timely treatment. We notice disruptions in interpersonal cooperation, hysteria and aggression caused by fear of infection, there are more and more vigilations and denunciations of ′′ positive swab victims ′′ – all this leads to an unprecedented tension and division of the population. The development of additional severe chronic diseases is foreseeable. These diseases with their severe consequences are expected to far outweigh the possible Covid-19 damage in the FRG.The signatories therefore call on those responsible for health care and politics to discharge their responsibilities for the people of our country and immediately avert this threatening development. We demand an immediate revision of the available data by an independent panel of experts from all relevant specialized groups and a prompt implementation of the resulting consequences for the people of our country.We demand that ineffective and possibly even harmful anti-infection measures be stopped immediately and that mass testing is meaningful (e.g. Currently, 1,1 million tests / week, of which 99,3 % negative, cost per week: EUR 82,5 million) to be audited by a panel of independent experts.

We demand to intensify the protection of risk patients and only from them, where every viral infection can take a dramatic course – the healthy, immune competent population does not need protection beyond the general hygiene and health measures that have been known and proven for generations. Children and adolescents in particular need contacts with viruses to ′′ format ′′ your immune system. Coronavirus has always existed and will continue to exist. Natural immunity is the weapon against it. On the other hand, the mouth-nose cover demanded by politicians does not have a solid scientific foundation.

We call on politicians and medical professional representatives to refrain from daily public warning and fear machines in the press and talk shows – this creates a deep and unsubstantiated fear among the population.

The Bundestag has gem. § 5 IfSG identified an ′′ epidemic situation of national scope Obviously, the conditions for this are not fulfilled anymore. We therefore call on the members of the Bundestag to lift this statement immediately and thereby to shift the decision and responsibility for this to where they belong: into the hands of the democratically legitimate Parliament.

If there is an independent free press in Germany, we call on them to research in all directions and also allow critical voices. Opinion formation can only take place if all voices are heard without value and facts and figures are neutral.

Through daily contact with the people entrusted to us and many conversations, we as doctors working at the base of the population know that the hygiene awareness of people has grown so far through the experience of this virus wave that normal hygiene measures without coercion will be sufficient in the future.

Drawn:

Dr. Robert Kluger

Dr. Bruno Weil

Dr. Antonia

Dr. Felix Mazur

Dr. Katharina Hotfiel

Dr. Christine Knshnabhakdi

Dr. Hanna LübeckHeiko Strehmel

Dr. Norbert Bell

Dr. Heinz-Georg Beneke

Dr. Hans-Jürgen Beckmann

Dr. Thomas Hampe

Dr. Luke Mine’sRadim Farhumand

Dr. Tillmann Otlerbach

Dr. Ulrich RebersDr. Dr. Hubert hair

Dr. Verena Meyer-RaheDr. Dr. Manfred Conradt

Dr. Matthias KeillchPhv.- Doz. Diploma Psych. Dr. Dr. Christian Wolff

Dr. Holger Schr

Dr. Michael KühneDorothe G öllner

Dr. Wolf Schr

Dr. Ernst Schahn

Dr. Michael SeewaldStefan KurzKonrad Schneider-Trench Schroer

Dr. Anna Pujdak

Dr. Stefan S ällzer

Dlpl.- Med. Holger Dreier

Dr. Norbert Katte

Dr. Thomas Gerenkamp

Dr. Flllp SalemDominik jokes

Dr. Karsten Karad

Dr. Georg RüwekampSchmidt Krause,

Dr. Elizabeth Kiesel

Prof. Dr. Henbert Jürgens

Dr. See Christine Jürgens Less

BeefeaterHat · 09-11-2020 10:06AM

patnor1011 wrote: »

German Doctors Letter to Chancellor Merkel, Put an End to the Covid “Fear Machine”

Dear Chancellor Dr. Merkel,

We, the signatories, are doctors from all areas of healthcare, who have been serving people in practices and clinics for decades. During this time, we have witnessed more than one seasonal infection in Germany, most of them with far more severe conditions and significantly more deaths than since January 2020 from COVID infectious diseases. Together we serve approx. 70.000 people.

The circumstances of the coronavirus wave in the FRG have been perceived differently than the media and the ongoing warnings of politics, which were unjustified in fact, presented to the public for months. Predictions of individual advisory virologists with millions of seriously ill and hundreds of thousands of deaths in Germany have not been true in any way.

In the practices, hardly any infected patients were infected and if, then with normal, mostly mild progressions of virus flu. The hospitals have been more empty than ever before. There was no overload of ICU. Doctors, doctors and nurses were skillful in short-term work. Initially, we found the wave of the virus running towards us to be threatening and were able to understand the infection protection measures. However, there are months of secured evidence and facts that this wave of the virus is only slightly more intense than an ordinary seasonal flu and must be considered much more harmless than, for example, influenza infection in 2017/2018 with 27.000 deaths in Germany. According to the data situation, there hasn’t been a threat to the German population from Covid-19 for months.

This must be the reason to return to normal life in Germany – a life without restrictions, fear and infection hysteria.

We’re increasingly seeing older people with depression, young children and adolescents with severe anxiety and behavioral disorders, people with severe conditions who could have been cured in timely treatment. We notice disruptions in interpersonal cooperation, hysteria and aggression caused by fear of infection, there are more and more vigilations and denunciations of ′′ positive swab victims ′′ – all this leads to an unprecedented tension and division of the population. The development of additional severe chronic diseases is foreseeable. These diseases with their severe consequences are expected to far outweigh the possible Covid-19 damage in the FRG.The signatories therefore call on those responsible for health care and politics to discharge their responsibilities for the people of our country and immediately avert this threatening development. We demand an immediate revision of the available data by an independent panel of experts from all relevant specialized groups and a prompt implementation of the resulting consequences for the people of our country.We demand that ineffective and possibly even harmful anti-infection measures be stopped immediately and that mass testing is meaningful (e.g. Currently, 1,1 million tests / week, of which 99,3 % negative, cost per week: EUR 82,5 million) to be audited by a panel of independent experts.

We demand to intensify the protection of risk patients and only from them, where every viral infection can take a dramatic course – the healthy, immune competent population does not need protection beyond the general hygiene and health measures that have been known and proven for generations. Children and adolescents in particular need contacts with viruses to ′′ format ′′ your immune system. Coronavirus has always existed and will continue to exist. Natural immunity is the weapon against it. On the other hand, the mouth-nose cover demanded by politicians does not have a solid scientific foundation.

We call on politicians and medical professional representatives to refrain from daily public warning and fear machines in the press and talk shows – this creates a deep and unsubstantiated fear among the population.

The Bundestag has gem. § 5 IfSG identified an ′′ epidemic situation of national scope Obviously, the conditions for this are not fulfilled anymore. We therefore call on the members of the Bundestag to lift this statement immediately and thereby to shift the decision and responsibility for this to where they belong: into the hands of the democratically legitimate Parliament.

If there is an independent free press in Germany, we call on them to research in all directions and also allow critical voices. Opinion formation can only take place if all voices are heard without value and facts and figures are neutral.

Through daily contact with the people entrusted to us and many conversations, we as doctors working at the base of the population know that the hygiene awareness of people has grown so far through the experience of this virus wave that normal hygiene measures without coercion will be sufficient in the future.

Drawn:

Dr. Robert Kluger

Dr. Bruno Weil

Dr. Antonia

Dr. Felix Mazur

Dr. Katharina Hotfiel

Dr. Christine Knshnabhakdi

Dr. Hanna LübeckHeiko Strehmel

Dr. Norbert Bell

Dr. Heinz-Georg Beneke

Dr. Hans-Jürgen Beckmann

Dr. Thomas Hampe

Dr. Luke Mine’sRadim Farhumand

Dr. Tillmann Otlerbach

Dr. Ulrich RebersDr. Dr. Hubert hair

Dr. Verena Meyer-RaheDr. Dr. Manfred Conradt

Dr. Matthias KeillchPhv.- Doz. Diploma Psych. Dr. Dr. Christian Wolff

Dr. Holger Schr

Dr. Michael KühneDorothe G öllner

Dr. Wolf Schr

Dr. Ernst Schahn

Dr. Michael SeewaldStefan KurzKonrad Schneider-Trench Schroer

Dr. Anna Pujdak

Dr. Stefan S ällzer

Dlpl.- Med. Holger Dreier

Dr. Norbert Katte

Dr. Thomas Gerenkamp

Dr. Flllp SalemDominik jokes

Dr. Karsten Karad

Dr. Georg RüwekampSchmidt Krause,

Dr. Elizabeth Kiesel

Prof. Dr. Henbert Jürgens

Dr. See Christine Jürgens Less

Some boards.ie expert will be along shortly to brand them all cranks I'm sure

JRant · 09-11-2020 10:13AM

It's quite incredible that a figure of 3% can be used by anyone. Such a basic misunderstanding of statistics is sadly all too common. Comparing figures from the start of this pandemic, when the data set was still small, to now is at best laughable and at worst dangerous. It's been widely accepted that the number of confirmed cases is a lot smaller than actual cases out in the population. Sure the 3% is a number but we learn absolutely nothing from it. There is no correlation between cases and deaths, as we have seen over this past 6 weeks. A much better indicator is the age profile of infections and their impact. As the age profile of those infected went down, the death rate bottomed out and pretty much has stayed there since May. If the very elderly, whether they are in their own homes or nursing homes, can have resources focused on them will will have a positive outcome. If we continue with the blanket approach then it stretches resources from where they would be better utilised.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings