Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings

BeefeaterHat · 08-11-2020 07:24PM

nofools wrote: »

I'm listening but you seem to think that letting people back to work is some magic sponge for an infected and wounded economy.

I think that little nugget is what is driving the madness here. Fears for the economy are fine but I think they are disproportionate right now.

€23 billion euro deficit yep nothing to worry about economy wise

charlie14 · 08-11-2020 07:24PM

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I called first wave 'April'.

And just because these are the official stats doesnt make them any more correct. But you know that of course and thats where my question was aimed at, Why do you insist on the 30 per 1000 when you actually know this to be incorrect? Just because they were the officially recorded numbers?
Following through on that logic would mean we would have to live forever with skewed numbers just because we couldnt test for sh1t in the first wave but thats what we have to do because hey 'official'.

That doesnt make any sense. You cant compare numbers from the first wave with the numbers this time around. And at the same time you cant throw then all into the same pot either.

It`s actually very simple as I`ve attempted to explain to you already.
We can all ignore statistics and guess our own numbers, but that`s not debate or even logical.

It`s the equivalent of two bald men arguing over a comb.

nofools · 08-11-2020 07:26PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

So why is your opinion special on here? You are a new random poster. You’re not long enough on here to have earned that respect? ... oh wait...

News flash everyones opinions on here are as important as yours.

No they are not, that is a fantasy world where everybody can be the winner.

Even look at this place, thanks are used to vote for well received opinions. Works in the opposite direction in echo chambers though.

You admitted a few posts back that you are proud to not change your opinion, what is the sense in even engaging with that type of craic?

charlie14 · 08-11-2020 07:28PM

Akesh wrote: »

It makes it even worse for the government that more and more people are losing confidence day-by-day. NPHET have burned through almost all of the initial goodwill built up bar the odd minority of society cheering on lockdowns, the majority of people can see the measures to date have failed and aren't working.

It doesn't help that the CMO has made some unforgivable howlers in his role, particularly the nursing homes which should have seen NPHET replaced immediately with competent individuals and not the same old failures from the HSE, which has been a joke for decades.

Are the majority opposed to the latest measures ?
As far as I recall recent polling numbers haven`t shown that.
Nobody is saying we got it right on nursing homes. Very few if any countries did.

nofools · 08-11-2020 07:28PM

BeefeaterHat wrote: »

€23 billion euro deficit yep nothing to worry about economy wise

Ok how do you imagine it won't get worse the longer people are difficult and drag it out?

Micky 32 · 08-11-2020 07:30PM

nofools wrote: »

No they are not, that is a fantasy world where everybody can be the winner.

You admitted a few posts back that you are proud to not change your opinion,

So you’re the winner in your fantasy world? I rest my case.

Qoute my post where i said i’m proud not to change my opinion. I never posted that. You haven’t a clue what my opinion is.

charlie14 · 08-11-2020 07:31PM

BeefeaterHat wrote: »

€23 billion euro deficit yep nothing to worry about economy wise

Double that for the banking crisis and the interest rate was mny multiples of what we are paying now. It`s not as if we are on our own this time either when it comes to a deficit.

BeefeaterHat · 08-11-2020 07:32PM

nofools wrote: »

Ok how do you imagine it won't get worse the longer people are difficult and drag it out?

Drag it out? What do you think is going to magically change about covid anytime soon?

Micky 32 · 08-11-2020 07:34PM

BeefeaterHat wrote: »

Drag it out? What do you think is going to magically change about covid anytime soon?

Yes unless the vaccine works ( fingers crossed it does)Covid 19 isn’t going away. There are posters on here that would want us level 5 for the next 30 years if need be. But it seems they lack the ability to work out the cost of it.

BeefeaterHat · 08-11-2020 07:34PM

charlie14 wrote: »

Double that for the banking crisis and the interest rate was mny multiples of what we are paying now. It`s not as if we are on our own this time either when it comes to a deficit.

The interest rates won't stay low forever. Also considering the amount of people currently on some form of welfare this is much worse than 2008

BeefeaterHat · 08-11-2020 07:36PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

Yes unless the vaccine works Covid 19 isn’t going away. There are posters on here that would want us level 5 for the next 30 years. But it seems they lack the ability to work out the cost of it.

Yeah but they get to work from home in their pyjamas so it's worth the cost

nofools · 08-11-2020 07:36PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

So you’re the winner in your fantasy world? I rest my case.

Qoute my post where i said i’m proud not to change my opinion. I never posted that. You haven’t a clue what my opinion is.

There is nothing to be won.

You mixed up the right to have an opinion with the validity of that opinion. Bananas are always blue. Respect my opinion.

A few posts back you said something along the lines of "and we will never change".

Anyway...

end of the road · 08-11-2020 07:37PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

Regardless if that’s true or not it doesn’t give you the right to disrespect someone elses opinion on here just because it doesn’t fit in your snug lockdown world. It seems to be ‘your way or the highway’ in respect of other opinions on here. Whatever the “status quo” on here is you’d be better to get used to it, it won’t change.

actually, if an opinion is factually incorrect then it very much does give him the right to disrespect it.
nobody has an obligation to respect an opinion, just respect the fact that one has the right to express an opinion which the poster certainly does respect that right, but is simply challenging and correcting factually incorrect statements.

charlie14 · 08-11-2020 07:38PM

BeefeaterHat wrote: »

Covid doesn't have a 3-6% fatality rate

If you read my posts that is not what I said. I said Covid-19 here in the first wave had fatality a rate to confirmed cases of over 3%. In a country where lockdown was not used, that rate was 6%

nofools · 08-11-2020 07:38PM

BeefeaterHat wrote: »

The interest rates won't stay low forever. Also considering the amount of people currently on some form of welfare this is much worse than 2008

I still think the fears are exaggerated.

I also think they are underestimated if we don't get a handle on things within the next year.

Micky 32 · 08-11-2020 07:39PM

BeefeaterHat wrote: »

Yeah but they get to work from home in their pyjamas so it's worth the cost

It’s easy known what posters aren’t affected. Being honest i’m not affected. I get to travel around as normal and have lots of work etc. it doesn’t feel like a lockdown for me but i deal with the public and have met a lot of fed up and depressed people. I guess i was brought up to feel empathy towards other people.

nofools · 08-11-2020 07:42PM

BeefeaterHat wrote: »

Drag it out? What do you think is going to magically change about covid anytime soon?

Not with the current plan no, which only strengthens my point. That deficit will grow and grow until we get more serious and develop new workarounds

Micky 32 · 08-11-2020 07:43PM

end of the road wrote: »

actually, if an opinion is factually incorrect then it very much does give him the right to disrespect it.
nobody has an obligation to respect an opinion, just respect the fact that one has the right to express an opinion which the poster certainly does respect that right, but is simply challenging and correcting factually incorrect statements.

More rubbish. Said poster came on with the narrative “ my way or the highway attitude. Anyone who’s opinion is different to theres is “ thinly veiled” so we can deduce from that “ My opinion only matters”.

Said poster was asked numurous times to back up his claims and never did.

nofools · 08-11-2020 07:44PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

It’s easy known what posters aren’t affected. Being honest i’m not affected. I get to travel around as normal and have lots of work etc. it doesn’t feel like a lockdown for me but i deal with the public and have met a lot of fed up and depressed people. I guess i was brought up to feel empathy towards other people.

So was I. Empathy for the most people. Badly affected by the situation for those jumping to conclusions.

This fake moralising is tiresome.

charlie14 · 08-11-2020 07:44PM

BeefeaterHat wrote: »

The interest rates won't stay low forever. Also considering the amount of people currently on some form of welfare this is much worse than 2008

NTMA recently borrowed on a ten year fixed rate of 0.285%

I.M.F. as well as many others expect our economy to bounce back to pre Covid-19 much faster than than many other countries

Micky 32 · 08-11-2020 07:45PM

nofools wrote: »

So was I. Empathy for the most people. Badly affected by the situation for those jumping to conclusions.

This fake moralising is tiresome.

Rubbish and more nonsense. I’m finding it hard to believe you are affected badly going by your posts.

BeefeaterHat · 08-11-2020 07:45PM

charlie14 wrote: »

If you read my posts that is not what I said. I said Covid-19 here in the first wave had fatality a rate to confirmed cases of over 3%. In a country where lockdown was not used, that rate was 6%

Yeah but what does that matter ? Everyone now knows the fatality rate of covid is nowhere near 3-6% now

BeefeaterHat · 08-11-2020 07:47PM

charlie14 wrote: »

NTMA recently borrowed on a ten year fixed rate of 0.285%

I.M.F. as well as many others expect our economy to bounce back to pre Covid-19 much faster than than many other countries

How's our economy going to bounce back to what it was when the entire country's been locked up for months at a time?

Stormyteacup · 08-11-2020 07:47PM

charlie14 wrote: »

If you read my posts that is not what I said. I said Covid-19 here in the first wave had fatality a rate to confirmed cases of over 3%. In a country where lockdown was not used, that rate was 6%

Well is there not a case to be made for recalculating the fatality rate during a second lockdown, and comparing the two?

Surely more knowledge is a good thing, as is the much lower fatality rate after first month or two.

Cyrus · 08-11-2020 07:52PM

Nphet have no interest in releasing data that shows the real impact of Covid, actual mortality rates , incremental deaths , no of deaths in each age group, people who died with Covid not of Covid .

And given the cmos preference for level 5 lockdown I think we all know why.

charlie14 · 08-11-2020 07:53PM

BeefeaterHat wrote: »

Yeah but what does that matter ? Everyone now knows the fatality rate of covid is nowhere near 3-6% now

How does everyone know this ?
We know from the first wave that the deaths rate to confirmed cases is not known for up to 6 to 8 weeks afterwards.
You cannot equate any given days deaths to that days confirmed cases.

nofools · 08-11-2020 07:55PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

Rubbish and more nonsense. I’m finding it hard to believe you are affected badly going by your posts.

And tell me how the hell did you reach that conclusion without knowing me?

You get upset if i call your views ignorant but if you jump to conclusions about people that is the definition of it.

You just want to characterise me for some weak attempt at mocking a stereotype i don't even fit.

Also i backed up all my claims with common sense and logic, i don't need to link to youtube videos or 50 page reports.

Thinly veiled doesn't mean I'm right and you are wrong because i said so (like you like to do) ...it means that your points are easily seen as totally wrong by the majority of reasonable people because your evidence is obviously weak.

charlie14 · 08-11-2020 07:57PM

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Well is there not a case to be made for recalculating the fatality rate during a second lockdown, and comparing the two?

Surely more knowledge is a good thing, as is the much lower fatality rate after first month or two.

Of course there is, but we are only in the first month of this second wave which means that present deaths are in all probability from infections a month ago.

nofools · 08-11-2020 07:58PM

BeefeaterHat wrote: »

How's our economy going to bounce back to what it was when the entire country's been locked up for months at a time?

Exactly, it won't. The damage has been done already, more to come if the turkeys keep voting for it.

The world won't stop and there will be cash in the atms still.

Penfailed · 08-11-2020 08:01PM

Akesh wrote: »

It makes it even worse for the government that more and more people are losing confidence day-by-day. NPHET have burned through almost all of the initial goodwill built up bar the odd minority of society cheering on lockdowns, the majority of people can see the measures to date have failed and aren't working.

It doesn't help that the CMO has made some unforgivable howlers in his role, particularly the nursing homes which should have seen NPHET replaced immediately with competent individuals and not the same old failures from the HSE, which has been a joke for decades.

...except the emboldened text isn't true.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings