Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Beasty

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

What utter b*ll****, you are an out and out spoofer.

Taking a break from the forum and threadbanned when they return

nofools

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I'm on the record of refusing to take your nonsense as fact.
I read a few of your posts from earlier, I 'm amazed someone could contradict themselves in a short space of time and believe people should still take them seriously. You're a spoofer lad. Have a good one, I'm just going to scroll by your ravings from now on.

Yeah yeah...what contradictions?

Stormyteacup

charlie14 wrote: »

If it was otherwise we would be attempting to eradicate the virus, and nobody has said that is what we are attempting.

Very glad that’s clear.

A recent contributor is derailing thread with posts that espouse a zero infection policy, impossible to argue against.

PTH2009

Is the review next week?

CalamariFritti

charlie14 wrote: »

What is a silly dance is saying we had only 1 death per 1,000 confirmed cases when it was over 30 times greater.


What is even a sillier dance is guessing what numbers are. Everyone can play that pointless game.

My game is not a guessing game.

Go through HSE incidence reports starting from August. Do the numbers. Bingo.
Then you come back to me saying what about April and I just told you what about April.

You need to make a distinction between is and was. Was was April when we didn't have a clue. We're a little bit better now but we're still not having any idea with regards to true spread. And yet its into low zero point somethings.

Why do you have a problem with that to the point of denial? Its actually a good thing. Unless your hyper morality stops you seeing the wood from the trees that is.

nofools

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Loving all those October/November registrations who only post on covid forums. You just know right away what you're going to get. Partisan accounts by users who dont want their regular accounts 'tarnished' by their off the wall covid opinions.

Why do you think people suddenly feel the need to take issue with is typically said here?

Fresh lockdowns and a second wave

charlie14

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Very glad that’s clear.

A recent contributor is derailing thread with posts that espouse a zero infection policy, impossible to argue against.

Was there ? I didn`t notice.
There does seem to be an undercurrent from some here, without them actually coming out and saying so, that they favour an acquired herd immunity approach though.

nofools

CalamariFritti wrote: »

My game is not a guessing game.

Go through HSE incidence reports starting from August. Do the numbers. Bingo.
Then you come back to me saying what about April and I just told you what about April.

You need to make a distinction between is and was. Was was April when we didn't have a clue. We're a little bit better now but we're still not having any idea with regards to true spread. And yet its into low zero point somethings.

Why do you have a problem with that to the point of denial? Its actually a good thing. Unless your hyper morality stops you seeing the wood from the trees that is.

I think we can all agree that a bit more honesty and humility on this topic would be good.

You are right about is and was.

It seems to me that the status quo in this thread was formed in June and refuses to update to the changing landscape.

hynesie08

PTH2009 wrote: »

Is the review next week?

You're not going to be in a pub tomorrow week, get your sob story ready now.

Micky 32

nofools wrote: »

It seems to me that the status quo in this thread was formed in June and refuses to update to the changing landscape.

So what. If someone has a different opinion than yours whether it’s right or wrong that’s just tough titty. Whether you like it or not you joining this forum /thread won’t change that and rightfully so, thankfully.

nofools

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Ok stand to be corrected it did seem as though you are in favour of highest level restrictions as long as there are cases detected, as capacity in hospitals is not a factor for you in level of restrictions you believe we should be under.

So restrictions until when?
Zero cases? Vaccine-aided herd immunity?

Until it looks to be safer. Second wave dying off around the continent and negative R rate.

We are facing too much uncertainty at the moment.

From history, the second wave in generally very bad relative to the first so we have to be extremely prudent as we simply don't know enough yet how big this one will get.

charlie14

CalamariFritti wrote: »

My game is not a guessing game.

Go through HSE incidence reports starting from August. Do the numbers. Bingo.
Then you come back to me saying what about April and I just told you what about April.

You need to make a distinction between is and was. Was was April when we didn't have a clue. We're a little bit better now but we're still not having any idea with regards to true spread. And yet its into low zero point somethings.

Why do you have a problem with that to the point of denial? Its actually a good thing. Unless your hyper morality stops you seeing the wood from the trees that is.

If you are ignoring the stats it is nothing but a guessing name.
And btw I never mentioned April to you.
Over 30 deaths per 1,000 cases was and is the stats for the first wave.
We are carrying out around 100,000 tests a week.

Statistically that puts the guesswork in the halfpenny place as regards the numbers or spread of the virus.

nofools

Micky 32 wrote: »

So what. If someone has a different opinion than yours whether it’s right or wrong that’s just tough titty. Whether you like it or not you joining this forum /thread won’t change that and rightfully so, thankfully.

You are right but this is different.

We are all disproportionately effected by the actions of a selfish arrogant minority.

Stormyteacup

charlie14 wrote: »

Was there ? I didn`t notice.
There does seem to be an undercurrent from some here, without them actually coming out and saying so, that they favour an acquired herd immunity approach though.

Yes perhaps, I’m not as staunch on that point as before. Statements made that acquired herd immunity without a vaccine has never been achieved has led me to investigate further. It seems there may not have been an opportunity for it to have been studied enough in the past, especially without testing capabilities and mass sharing of data and results.

But if it has never been achieved without the help of a vaccine then it is a risky approach.

However I believe the government would relax restrictions and allow a increase in the spread of this virus, still in a somewhat controlled manner if we had better resources.

One conclusion I draw from that is that this is not a dangerous virus for the majority of people (stats evidencing it aside), and the fear in society and economic damage is an overreaction

Micky 32

nofools wrote: »

You are right but this is different.

We are all disproportionately effected by the actions of a selfish arrogant minority.

Regardless if that’s true or not it doesn’t give you the right to disrespect someone elses opinion on here just because it doesn’t fit in your snug lockdown world. It seems to be ‘your way or the highway’ in respect of other opinions on here. Whatever the “status quo” on here is you’d be better to get used to it, it won’t change.

Stormyteacup

nofools wrote: »

You are right but this is different.

We are all disproportionately effected by the actions of a selfish arrogant minority.

What is the problem exactly? Numbers are reducing - obviously, restrict movement of people and reduce spread of virus.

Is it that you don’t feel safe enough? Or just upset seeing some flouting restrictions?

I think you might be in the wrong thread. Few here encouraging others to disregard restrictions. Many disagree with policy, myself included but still follow the guidelines mostly.

Would be great if everyone did exactly as they were told without questioning why? Very glad I don’t live in a society like that.

nofools

Micky 32 wrote: »

Regardless if that’s true or not it doesn’t give you the right to disrespect someone elses opinion on here just because it doesn’t fit in your snug lockdown world. It seems to be ‘your way or the highway’ in respect of other opinions on here. Whatever the “status quo” on here is you’d be better to get used to it, it won’t change.

Respect is earned

Stop denying reality or the highway is more like it

Micky 32

nofools wrote: »

Respect is earned

Ah right so opinions don’t matter unless you “ respect “ them LOL

Micky 32

nofools wrote: »

Respect is earned

Stop denying reality or the highway is more like it

I’m not denying reality or will i deny your disrespect for other posters opinions whether they are right or wrong.


Anyway do carry on ;-)

nofools

Stormyteacup wrote: »

What is the problem exactly? Numbers are reducing - obviously, restrict movement of people and reduce spread of virus.

Is it that you don’t feel safe enough? Or just upset seeing some flouting restrictions?

I think you might be in the wrong thread. Few here encouraging others to disregard restrictions. Many disagree with policy, myself included but still follow the guidelines mostly.

Would be great if everyone did exactly as they were told without questioning why? Very glad I don’t live in a society like that.

I have made it abundantly clear that I am concerned that we have to try side step the very clear second wave that is growing around Europe.

What is the problem with that? You do want this all to end I presume and step 1 is not goingbackwards if we can.

There are plenty talking the government jokeshop open it all up line but it is good you are more sensible than that.

CalamariFritti

charlie14 wrote: »

If you are ignoring the stats it is nothing but a guessing name.
And btw I never mentioned April to you.
Over 30 deaths per 1,000 cases was and is the stats for the first wave.
We are carrying out around 100,000 tests a week.

Statistically that puts the guesswork in the halfpenny place as regards the numbers or spread of the virus.

I called first wave 'April'.

And just because these are the official stats doesnt make them any more correct. But you know that of course and thats where my question was aimed at, Why do you insist on the 30 per 1000 when you actually know this to be incorrect? Just because they were the officially recorded numbers?
Following through on that logic would mean we would have to live forever with skewed numbers just because we couldnt test for sh1t in the first wave but thats what we have to do because hey 'official'.

That doesnt make any sense. You cant compare numbers from the first wave with the numbers this time around. And at the same time you cant throw then all into the same pot either.

nofools

Micky 32 wrote: »

Ah right so opinions don’t matter unless you “ respect “ them LOL

Correct

This idea of equality of opinion is nonsense.

Democracy of opinion is why the world has been so backwards in recent years.

Every idiot given a platform to poison others.

The earth is not flat

charlie14

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Yes perhaps, I’m not as staunch on that point as before. Statements made that acquired herd immunity without a vaccine has never been achieved has led me to investigate further. It seems there may not have been an opportunity for it to have been studied enough in the past, especially without testing capabilities and mass sharing of data and results.

But if it has never been achieved without the help of a vaccine then it is a risky approach.

However I believe the government would relax restrictions and allow a increase in the spread of this virus, still in a somewhat controlled manner if we had better resources.

One conclusion I draw from that is that this is not a dangerous virus for the majority of people (stats evidencing it aside), and the fear in society and economic damage is an overreaction

If you look up the numerous various vaccine have no to control the spread of disease or viruses, (some eradicated or close too),the studies are already there. We had thousands of years and never came close to eradicating or controlling them without a vaccine.


Controlling the spread of a virulent virus is a tricky job. Get it wrong on the numbers and you are very quickly in the area of the law of diminishing returns.



This virus may not be deadly to the vast majority, but with lockdown we still had over 30 deaths per 1000 cases. Without it others have had double that. And it`s not as if the virus will just disappear. It will continue killing that 3%-6% of those that are not in the majority that are in danger. There is also the consideration, that if you catch this and recover, it`s a virus that is showing health problems for some of those.

Stormyteacup

nofools wrote: »

I have made it abundantly clear that I am concerned that we have to try side step the very clear second wave that is growing around Europe.

What is the problem with that? You do want this all to end I presume and step 1 is not goingbackwards if we can.

There are plenty talking the government jokeshop open it all up line but it is good you are more sensible than that.

Well okay - but imagine if a couple of sharp lockdowns were needed next year.

Much more, indeed almost all as in Europe during the Summer, could be opened between each one. Businesses and jobs could be kept afloat for four weeks twice a year with supports and planning in place.

Government has been an absolute jokeshop - amidst all the uncertainty of this year, of that much I am certain.

BeefeaterHat

charlie14 wrote: »

If you look up the numerous various vaccine have no to control the spread of disease or viruses, (some eradicated or close too),the studies are already there. We had thousands of years and never came close to eradicating or controlling them without a vaccine.


Controlling the spread of a virulent virus is a tricky job. Get it wrong on the numbers and you are very quickly in the area of the law of diminishing returns.



This virus may not be deadly to the vast majority, but with lockdown we still had over 30 deaths per 1000 cases. Without it others have had double that. And it`s not as if the virus will just disappear. It will continue killing that 3%-6% of those that are not in the majority that are in danger. There is also the consideration, that if you catch this and recover, it`s a virus that is showing health problems for some of those.

Covid doesn't have a 3-6% fatality rate

nofools

Micky 32 wrote: »

Regardless if that’s true or not it doesn’t give you the right to disrespect someone elses opinion on here just because it doesn’t fit in your snug lockdown world. It seems to be ‘your way or the highway’ in respect of other opinions on here. Whatever the “status quo” on here is you’d be better to get used to it, it won’t change.

Have my opinions not been disrespected plenty already?

We don't need cotton wool, we are here to argue and reach consensus (or just talk ****e for the craic)

If i am disrespectful I will get banned. I don't think I have been either.

nofools

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Well okay - but imagine if a couple of sharp lockdowns were needed next year.

Much more, indeed almost all as in Europe during the Summer, could be opened between each one. Businesses and jobs could be kept afloat for four weeks twice a year with supports and planning in place.

Government has been an absolute jokeshop - amidst all the uncertainty of this year, of that much I am certain.

I'm listening but you seem to think that letting people back to work is some magic sponge for an infected and wounded economy.

I think that little nugget is what is driving the madness here. Fears for the economy are fine but I think they are disproportionate right now.

Micky 32

nofools wrote: »

Correct

This idea of equality of opinion is nonsense.

Democracy of opinion is why the world has been so backwards in recent years.

Every idiot given a platform to poison others.

The earth is not flat

So why is your opinion special on here? You are a new random poster. You’re not long enough on here to have earned that respect? ... oh wait...

News flash everyones opinions on here are as important as yours.

Akesh

charlie14 wrote: »

If you look up the numerous various vaccine have no to control the spread of disease or viruses, (some eradicated or close too),the studies are already there. We had thousands of years and never came close to eradicating or controlling them without a vaccine.


Controlling the spread of a virulent virus is a tricky job. Get it wrong on the numbers and you are very quickly in the area of the law of diminishing returns.



This virus may not be deadly to the vast majority, but with lockdown we still had over 30 deaths per 1000 cases. Without it others have had double that. And it`s not as if the virus will just disappear. It will continue killing that 3%-6% of those that are not in the majority that are in danger. There is also the consideration, that if you catch this and recover, it`s a virus that is showing health problems for some of those.

It makes it even worse for the government that more and more people are losing confidence day-by-day.

nofools

Stormyteacup wrote: »

What is the problem exactly? Numbers are reducing - obviously, restrict movement of people and reduce spread of virus.

Is it that you don’t feel safe enough? Or just upset seeing some flouting restrictions?

I think you might be in the wrong thread. Few here encouraging others to disregard restrictions. Many disagree with policy, myself included but still follow the guidelines mostly.

Would be great if everyone did exactly as they were told without questioning why? Very glad I don’t live in a society like that.

I don't enjoy being in a lockdown that a minority (plus schools) earned for us all.

Do you?