Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Deleted User wrote: »

They don’t disagree. They all know how unsustainable it is to carry on like this. Our own Taoiseach admitted that 2021 is really the last year that we can do this before the money situation is desperate.

They are all just praying for a vaccine so they don’t have to find more practical solutions.

But the vaccine may not necessarily get rid of Covid. It remains to be seen how quickly it can be rolled out, how many take it and how effective it even is.

But at some stage, we are going to have to go out our front doors and return to normality, accepting that Covid is a threat, but just one of many threats.

i think your rounding on a the elephant in the room now alright. We will see the vaccine dispersal in January -March being used to try to dismantle restrictions by the goverrnment, like this whole house of cards that has been built up has been to some extent a success, we have saved lives and helped keep the hospitals from being overran. But most of us know that vaccine will only be a tool against this, same way flu vaccine is. Now i would imagine the government will try to bring us to level 2 and keep it there once vaccination starts, if it were me i would use this time to start easing /weaning tony and NYPHET off the power, maybe give live updates just twice aweek then after a month or two down to once a week, basically bit by bit take covid off the top news feed. Now numbers will go up and down but the vaccination should work to keep hospitals fairly ok and deaths very low as they are anyway now.

its jsut going to be tough to dismantle the house of cards they have built up, RTE will be calling them out on it as will NYPHET if they are let. Like you remember most years HSE anf heaalth officals try to get the winter flu/vomiting bug etc into news items and sometimes government run an iniative after pressure, such as

CATCH IT ,KILL IT BIN IT, well you would think they could keep these goin like face masks in public places indoors, wash hands , santise etc. But really just try to let normal living back and not make too much meal of it. Because if the vaccine dosent work too great then theres no plan b only perhaps a certain herd immunity or close the eyes and ears and pretend its a bad dose of flu as happens some years.

nofools wrote: »

Are you honestly telling me with the a straight face that equivalent situations in other lands are of no relevance whatsoever to how we inform our course of action in Ireland?

They are only relevant when they are locking down.

When they opened up in the summer and let people live their lives, then they weren't relevant.

nofools wrote: »

Still making excuses and immaturely blaming others when you are just plain wrong and doubling down on it.

Wrong on what exactly? NPHET did not take the advice of the ECDC over the summer. We did our own thing and were an outlier. Tomás Ryan (a neuroscientist) spent months on the RTÉ airwaves re our Covid response pushing one idea only - zero Covid. Along with McConkey, Killeen, Staines and others. Anyone who offered a different opinion in the medical community, eg Dr Feeley were sacked.
Do you not think strategies should be challenged?

I understand the need for restrictions and control over how the virus spreads. However we’ve gone completely OTT (to put it mildly) in our responses.
Everything should be open with restrictions & guidelines in place to allow our economy & society function. If a wave comes along, like we’ve just experienced, level 3 plus should be used. These restrictions should be dropped / lessened accordingly as new treatments come on stream for the virus.
I also posted many months ago re our State taking a major gamble in waiting for a vaccine like it was going to solve everything while putting ourselves into billions of euro of debt & continuing to stop the economy functioning. We put ourselves at the mercy of international investors & their demands to keep our country on life support & bills paid, while also pouring billions into purchasing vaccines which may not work to the degree we need them to.

Deleted User wrote: »

The pro restrictions have a habit of this nonsense.
When everything was good in Europe they were hysterical about Bolivia.

not on this site they weren't.
oh and very much pot kettle in relation to the first (all be it inaccurate) line of your post.

Deleted User wrote: »

They don’t disagree. They all know how unsustainable it is to carry on like this. Our own Taoiseach admitted that 2021 is really the last year that we can do this before the money situation is desperate.

They are all just praying for a vaccine so they don’t have to find more practical solutions.

But the vaccine may not necessarily get rid of Covid. It remains to be seen how quickly it can be rolled out, how many take it and how effective it even is.

But at some stage, we are going to have to go out our front doors and return to normality, accepting that Covid is a threat, but just one of many threats.

they do disagree, they know that throwing open the doors is even more unsustainable, hence most countries haven't done it and won't do so.
we have already gone out our front doors, accepting that covid is a threat.
the game is very much up in relation to returning to the old normality, changes that were coming anyway are here now, quicker then they would have been, but are very much here thanks to having to adapt to covid.

Dickie10 wrote: »

i think your rounding on a the elephant in the room now alright. We will see the vaccine dispersal in January -March being used to try to dismantle restrictions by the goverrnment, like this whole house of cards that has been built up has been to some extent a success, we have saved lives and helped keep the hospitals from being overran. But most of us know that vaccine will only be a tool against this, same way flu vaccine is. Now i would imagine the government will try to bring us to level 2 and keep it there once vaccination starts, if it were me i would use this time to start easing /weaning tony and NYPHET off the power, maybe give live updates just twice aweek then after a month or two down to once a week, basically bit by bit take covid off the top news feed. Now numbers will go up and down but the vaccination should work to keep hospitals fairly ok and deaths very low as they are anyway now.

its jsut going to be tough to dismantle the house of cards they have built up, RTE will be calling them out on it as will NYPHET if they are let. Like you remember most years HSE anf heaalth officals try to get the winter flu/vomiting bug etc into news items and sometimes government run an iniative after pressure, such as

CATCH IT ,KILL IT BIN IT, well you would think they could keep these goin like face masks in public places indoors, wash hands , santise etc. But really just try to let normal living back and not make too much meal of it. Because if the vaccine dosent work too great then theres no plan b only perhaps a certain herd immunity or close the eyes and ears and pretend its a bad dose of flu as happens some years.

our whole approach has been about trying to get us back to normality, however to achieve it requires everyone doing their bit, not simply the majority.
given sweden have moved away from the failed herd immunity without a vaccine strategy, and given pretending it's a bad flue is doomed to collapse the health system and every thing else, they are strategies that won't be persued as the over all cost, socially and economically will make any damage we may suffer now, seem like child's play in all likely hood.
restrictions with the odd rolling lockdown if the cases go to an unsustainable level is the approach going forward, as it actually does work, and as much as none of us like it (and believe me none of us do like lock downs and restrictions) we are going to have to buckle up and knuckle down as we will eventually get to the journey's end.

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Yes, that is the sole reason for containing the virus with restrictions.

Yet, after the initial April 'shock' instead of doing something positive, our government followed NPHET advice and locked down the country.
The borrowed money to support this lockdown could have been spent in bolstering our health service so that it would not so easily be overrun.

Remember our health service has been overrun every year, during Winter months, without Covid, for many years past.

Why have we not heard any advice from our health professionals to the population regarding what they could/should be doing to boost their immune systems?

Surely this is something we should expect from public health officials?



Most people would be happy with "some restrictions", but not with what we have now.
There seems to be no sense or meaning to some of the restrictions, which of course causes people to question the whole lot.

It is my belief we could do very well, both economically and medically, with much less severe restrictions.

I have no faith in a future vaccine.
Already it is clear that any vaccine being worked on now (which will apparently only reduce symptoms and nothing more) will not be worth a damn as the virus mutates.
Yes it has already mutated in Denmark in their mink farms ....... where they euthanised millions of the beasts.

As I see this, the sooner we allow this virus to spread, under controlled conditions, so that it does not overwhelm our health service (but does not leave our hospitals empty either), the better off we will all be ....... both medically and economically.
It will be great if we do get an efficacious vaccine, then we will get to 'herd immunity' much quicker, and presumably much more safely, especially for the vulnerable.

Bottom line is that the present severe restrictions make no sense to most people in the present circumstances.

allowing the virus to spread in a controlled manner is what we are doing, virus suppression not eradication.
the restrictions do make sense to plenty, the reality is they are about removing non-essential trip and other generators so as to minimise spread.
so for example, if you go to a shop that sells multiple things but can only buy certain essential products, you go just to buy the products you really need but will perhapse buy the other products online. this means you spend less time in the shop meaning less chance of virus spread.
so it's not that being unable to buy particular products prevent you from spreading or getting covid, it's rather that one spending less time in the shop because there are less products to buy with options to buy on line, you will stay less.
they really do make perfect sense, one has to actually think about them and the ideas behind them.

CruelSummer wrote: »

Wrong on what exactly? NPHET did not take the advice of the ECDC over the summer. We did our own thing and were an outlier. Tomás Ryan (a neuroscientist) spent months on the RTÉ airwaves re our Covid response pushing one idea only - zero Covid. Along with McConkey, Killeen, Staines and others. Anyone who offered a different opinion in the medical community, eg Dr Feeley were sacked.
Do you not think strategies should be challenged?

I understand the need for restrictions and control over how the virus spreads. However we’ve gone completely OTT (to put it mildly) in our responses.
Everything should be open with restrictions & guidelines in place to allow our economy & society function. If a wave comes along, like we’ve just experienced, level 3 plus should be used. These restrictions should be dropped / lessened accordingly as new treatments come on stream for the virus.
I also posted many months ago re our State taking a major gamble in waiting for a vaccine like it was going to solve everything while putting ourselves into billions of euro of debt & continuing to stop the economy functioning. We put ourselves at the mercy of international investors & their demands to keep our country on life support & bills paid, while also pouring billions into purchasing vaccines which may not work to the degree we need them to.

nobody who offered a different opinion in the medical community was sacked as far as i'm aware.
Dr Feeley chose of his own accord to resign as the HSE distanced themselves from his comments, which they had to do, and he should have known to make it clear he was speaking for himself and not the HSE, if anything so there wouldn't have been any come back on him or the HSE had he stayed around.
no doubt if effective treatments for the virus do come on stream the restrictions will be lessened or even maybe abolished.