Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings

nofools · 07-11-2020 04:04PM

end of the road wrote: »

Simple Realities

Thanks and that sums it up for me. I cannot believe or understand the level of self deluded complex yet totally wrong argument that goes on here in the face of the bleeding obvious.

end of the road · 07-11-2020 04:15PM

manniot2 wrote: »

Can you?

The night before lockdown Dublin was very busy. The restrictions are causing our economic and societal collapse, not the virus. Im sorry to break it to you but if all restrictions were lifted tomorrow, every pub and shop would be full and normal life would go on.

You can obviously hide away if you prefer, nobody is stopping you.

they would not be in any way as full as they would be without an uncontroled virus.
there would be people there, with the odd group of people which would look bigger then it actually is, but it wouldn't be enough to justify that approach as a method to try and protect the economy.
and as an uncontroled virus like this does it's thing then slowly but surely the whole house of cards begins to collapse, because as we can see, covid doesn't need to infect people to cause issues.

CruelSummer wrote: »

Once again, it seems being ‘European’ suits when Europe’s case numbers are high. However over the summer it didn’t suit at all when they had restaurant, bars & services open. NPHET went against the advice of the ECDC continuously. Europe entered into an EU wide travel system while we were the last to even reopen at all with the lowest cases. Why is that? People took a much needed break from Covid hysteria on the continent. Meanwhile here in Ireland, we lambasted the public with fear filled ‘experts’.

Also Tomás Ryan wrongly claimed on Prime Time TV that ‘hundreds of children would die’ if Covid was let circulate here. He said this when discussing approaches to Covid with Dr Gupta on Prime Time. There is no evidence anywhere that this is the case. There are also plenty of tweets and quotes from McConkey filled with his ‘projections’ before Level 5 was implemented. None of which came to pass as we are only in Level 5 for two & a half weeks. Level 3 plus household ban on visits had already made the impact.

covid hysteria doesn't exist.
it's a thing thrown out by those unable to deal with the facts and the reality of our situation, who cannot deal with the fact that what they want isn't going to be delivered, that everything is against their viewpoints.
it's along the lines of throwing out bias when media report facts that people don't want to hear, but don't report, or at least challenge, the non-facts that some have decided are facts.
yes, in ireland we had experts putting out information and facts in relation to covid, a good thing as people should be aware of as much information on this as possible, information and education is good.
why would you have an issue with people being educated about covid? unless of course them knowing the facts means you are more likely to have your points challenged and debunked.

Elessar wrote: »

Well said. The Irish reaction has been beyond ridiculous since the start. I know that the government will not get everything right but their unquestioning servitude to Tony The Holy is quite frankly disgusting.

Its the governments job to consider all factors and, in their own words, "learn to live with the virus". This is not living with it. Varadkar seemed to be the only one to openly question Holohan on Level 5 and for that he was absolutely hounded by the media and their pro-lockdown-at-all-cost agenda.

These restrictions are causing and will cause deaths, significant mental health issues for significant numbers of people, job losses, enormous debt and many other quality of life issues for millions of people. We cannot continue like this but no one in government has the balls to say NO to NPHET.

As Varadkar said himself its easy to go into Level 5, not so easy to come out of it. You can be damn sure there'll be some other excuse as we near D day.

making the difficult decisions and taking all factors into account is what government have been doing since day one.
it's why we have had non-essential stuff such as the non-food serving pubs closed longer as getting other, lucrative industries and other important things open first were made the priority.
the fact is, nphet just advise and the government make the decisions based on all of the factors, and while our approach will have it's issues, it is for the most part being a success in terms of protecting most of what we need to function.
the effects attributed to restrictions were likely to happen anyway, chances are they would be a whole lot worse if we made no effort to control this and that is why controling the spread as much as we can is our approach.

acequion wrote: »

We're talking about the EU, you were the one who brought it up. With your stupid denial of the fact that our restrictions since March have been the harshest.

You're the one posting lies, bs and utter fabrication. What planet are you on?? Clearly not the same one as most of the posters here.

the US stopping travel from europe is very relevant and important given the US is probably the biggest travel market from europe.
i can confirm that poster has not posted any lies, because if he did then there would be plenty of stuff showing so, and there is not a jot.

nofools · 07-11-2020 04:21PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

Pubs in Dublin have been closed since before St Patrick’s day and it’s unclear as to whether they’ll reopen at any point this year.
You could enjoy a pint in a pub in Europe almost two months before you could get your dog groomed or buy some non essential retail here, and that really puts it into perspective how ridiculous our roadmap to get out of lockdown round 1 was.

During the summer, when we had 0 deaths and less than 5 cases per day, the government still wouldn’t entertain the idea of speeding up the roadmap that was paralysing several industries, while our European neighbours enjoyed a summer of relative normality where all of their industries were open, albeit with rules in place.

The point is that they had breathing room, they had a chance to mentally and financially recover a bit before lockdown 2.0 was imposed on them.
The pubs here were open for all of 2 WEEKS before we shut them again, they were open in Italy since May and they’re the covid ground zero of Europe, for goodness sake.

That’s why people are annoyed. They are fatigued and tired, they are financially and mentally suffering under the weight of these severe restrictions and have had no respite since early March.

So it’s not really relevant that other European countries are going back into lockdown, because they didn’t suffer through the most restrictive and strict lockdown in the whole of Europe throughout the summer.
We were told we weren’t ‘quite where we needed to be’, to hang tough and that we’re nearly there, to enjoy just two weeks of all industries being open before they shut it all again?

The government seem extremely trigger happy when it comes to imposing these lockdowns but they’re like headless chickens trying to get us back out of them.
The severe lack of confident leadership is what caused us to have the slowest, most drawn out easing of restrictions in the world first time around.
The fear is that they’ll do the same this time.
I have absolutely no faith that they’ll let us go back to level 2/3 in December, and if they do, it will be done so under the clear impression that we’ll be back to level 5 in January again.
Stephen Donnelly made it clear that rolling full lockdowns are going to be in place for at least another 9 months, and that’s absolutely terrifying.
This isn’t living with covid, and the human cost for this is going to be astronomical.

I have no doubt that the inevitable tribunals in a few years time will confirm what we already know: that these restrictions/lockdowns are causing more indirect deaths than those who are dying of the virus.

We quite simply cannot have our cake and eat it, that is well proven by the data. It is far from enjoyable but what can you do?

Put on your big girl pants and adapt to the reality of things.

I would also argue that Ireland enjoyed more mental respite than the continent as mid summer things were very low risk and we were told that, but of course we managed to undo that progress quickly.

07-11-2020 04:23PM

Yeah... I really can’t be bothered reading through another wall of multi quotes and pro restriction drivel. There is a reason nobody responds to you...

I did see today though that NPHET are considering putting a limit on the number of people you can see after level 5 is finished... Don’t even ask me how something like that would work...

But it clearly shows that the focus is still on making life as restrictive as possible even after lockdown.

nofools · 07-11-2020 04:28PM

I might write a play based on what I see here, it would be a great comedy if it wasn't a tragedy.

Title?

"How to be wrong about everything"

"Keeping up appearances"

???

end of the road · 07-11-2020 04:28PM

Deleted User wrote: »

If you are so worried about leisure causing death, I guess you wore a mask and didnt socialise in 2018 or 2019?

Could easily spread a cold or flu to an elderly person that could be fatal for them.

covid is not flue or cold, covid causes multiples of the damage.
so lots for you to address.

Deleted User wrote: »

Level of deaths globally is tiny compared to original fears.

Nothing to address .

certainly not tiny know, huge in fact.
but no not like what could have been thanks to most countries implementing vital public health measures.

nofools wrote: »

Thanks and that sums it up for me. I cannot believe or understand the level of self deluded complex yet totally wrong argument that goes on here in the face of the bleeding obvious.

sadly i can unfortunately.
the good thing is that while these individuals look to add up to a lot here, they are an irrelevance in reality dispite their very vocal presence
and they have absolutely lost.

the majority of us know the seriousness of this whether we are personally at risk or not and will continue to do our bit, dispite not liking lock downs and restrictions.

nofools · 07-11-2020 04:31PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yeah... I really can’t be bothered reading through another wall of multi quotes and pro restriction drivel. There is a reason nobody responds to you...

I did see today though that NPHET are considering putting a limit on the number of people you can see after level 5 is finished... Don’t even ask me how something like that would work...

But it clearly shows that the focus is still on making life as restrictive as possible even after lockdown.

The focus is on damage limitation

The reason no one responds to reasonable posts is that this is the echo chamber of all echo chambers.

07-11-2020 04:35PM

end of the road wrote: »

and they have absolutely lost..

Fully agree.

Lost jobs, lost incomes, lost homes, lost businesses is the sad reality for many.

07-11-2020 04:36PM

nofools wrote: »

The focus is on damage limitation

The reason no one responds to reasonable posts is that this is the echo chamber of all echo chambers.

If the focus is damage limitation then we have done a terrible job...

Country destroyed while hospitals are quieter than ever...

end of the road · 07-11-2020 04:38PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Fully agree.

Lost jobs, lost incomes, lost homes, lost businesses is the sad reality for many.

hold on, i thought you weren't responding to facts?
anyway, i'm glad you agree that you have lost, you were never going to get what you wanted, so this is a step in the right direction.
baby steps but we will get there in the end.

nofools · 07-11-2020 04:39PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Fully agree.

Lost jobs, lost incomes, lost homes, lost businesses is the sad reality for many.

True and don't forget lost lives

So jac, time to mature and accept that this will continue until we get a handle on the situation.

You can't just sit on boards all day complaining about the government. We all have a part.

07-11-2020 04:41PM

nofools wrote: »

True and don't forget lost lives

So jac, time to mature and accept that this will continue until we get a handle on the situation.

You can't just sit on boards all day complaining about the government. We all have a part.

It will continue until the money runs out. Which will be some stage next year.

Better hope there is a vaccine or you’ll be forced to leave the house.

Stormyteacup · 07-11-2020 04:43PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yeah... I really can’t be bothered reading through another wall of multi quotes and pro restriction drivel. There is a reason nobody responds to you...

I did see today though that NPHET are considering putting a limit on the number of people you can see after level 5 is finished... Don’t even ask me how something like that would work...

But it clearly shows that the focus is still on making life as restrictive as possible even after lockdown.

I guess they’re anticipating Christmas? You can have family dinner but number around the table will be capped.

Still massively restrictive of course and then presumably back to high level for first quarter 2021?

But pro-restriction fans will grab it with both hands, regardless of what it means post-christmas.

Can then settle back into comfortable level 5 fully satiated with turkey and presents.

nofools · 07-11-2020 04:43PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If the focus is damage limitation then we have done a terrible job...

Country destroyed while hospitals are quieter than ever...

Ok ok let's go with you...hospitals quieter than ever (except last month or before that but im humouring you) great job.

Can you accept that we are doing better than the continent presently? Why do you think that is?

Would it not be imprudent to imagine that we are special and the same can't happen here?

07-11-2020 04:44PM

end of the road wrote: »

hold on, i thought you weren't responding to facts?
anyway, i'm glad you agree that you have lost, you were never going to get what you wanted, so this is a step in the right direction.
baby steps but we will get there in the end.

You are treating this like some kind of competition... strange behaviour.

Does huge unemployment feel like a win to you???

07-11-2020 04:45PM

nofools wrote: »

Ok ok let's go with you...hospitals quieter than ever (except last month or before that but im humouring you) great job.

Can you accept that we are doing better than the continent presently? Why do you think that is?

Would it not be imprudent to imagine that we are special and the same can't happen here?

We are doing better if you believe that Covid is the only issue in society, which it most definitely is not.

nofools · 07-11-2020 04:47PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We are doing better if you believe that Covid is the only issue in society, which it most definitely is not.

Sure sure ðŸ™‚ I hear you

Now hear me, the rest of the EU has just as much economic strife.

You are purposefully blinkered.

nofools · 07-11-2020 04:49PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You are treating this like some kind of competition... strange behaviour.

Does huge unemployment feel like a win to you???

Slightly preferable to huge deaths and broken families

A premature death of the primary earner in a family is a loss of earning capacity worse than any redundancy.

You are blind to making your own worst fears play out worse than they should in the longrun.

acequion · 07-11-2020 04:59PM

nofools wrote: »

I might write a play based on what I see here, it would be a great comedy if it wasn't a tragedy.

Title?

"How to be wrong about everything"

"Keeping up appearances"

???

Wow but the arrogance and condescension in your posts is quite breathtaking.

Congratulations! Why not write a monologue instead of a play, with just one character. The one who's right about everything. :rolleyes:

SusieBlue · 07-11-2020 05:00PM

nofools wrote: »

We quite simply cannot have our cake and eat it, that is well proven by the data. It is far from enjoyable but what can you do?

Put on your big girl pants and adapt to the reality of things.

I would also argue that Ireland enjoyed more mental respite than the continent as mid summer things were very low risk and we were told that, but of course we managed to undo that progress quickly.

I put in my big girl pants back in March when I lost my job and took it on the chin.
I put on my big girl pants when I spent 13 weeks alone in my bedroom with my thoughts, in pretty much total isolation during lockdown round one.
I put on my big girl pants when my colposcopies to monitor potential cervical cancer were cancelled for nearly 5 months.
I put on my big girl pants when my counselling sessions were cancelled indefinitely and my mental health took a huge hit, because all the things I use to manage it (seeing friends, swimming in the sea, going to the gym etc) weren’t allowed any more.
I put on my big girl pants and lived on very little money while under massive financial pressure when I was on the PUP payment.
That doesn’t even touch the surface on the hardships faced by many people since March 2020, but it’s a start.

I have done that for near over 8 months now, but I need to ‘adapt to the reality things’? This is my reality.
Many other people’s reality is way way worse than mine, people who have kids who can’t pay their mortgages and don’t know how they are going to pay for their next food shop, let alone any Santa presents.

And this is the ‘reality’ you would resign hundreds of thousands of people to for an indefinite time, destroying lives and futures, to ‘protect’ them a virus that by all accounts only appears to be lethal to those who are above the average life expectancy age and have severe underlying conditions.
You are the one who needs to wake up to reality. This isn’t realistic or sustainable and we are inflicting a massive amount of hardship and stress on people. The cure is worse than the cause.

There will be more indirect deaths because of these restrictions/lockdowns than deaths from this virus, mark my words.
But no one cares about that and so long as we’re ‘saving one life from covid’, it doesn’t matter how many other people suffer and die as a result.
It’s absolutely sickening.

nofools · 07-11-2020 05:03PM

acequion wrote: »

Wow but the arrogance and condescension in your posts is quite breathtaking.

Congratulations! Why not write a monologue instead of a play, with just one character. The one who's right about everything. :rolleyes:

The condescension has been very well earned when you put us all at risk with what are at this stage of the game, with what we now know, blatant lies.

nofools · 07-11-2020 05:07PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

I put in my big girl pants back in March when I lost my job and took it on the chin.
I put on my big girl pants when I spent 13 weeks alone in my bedroom with my thoughts, in pretty much total isolation during lockdown round one.
I put on my big girl pants when my colposcopies to monitor potential cervical cancer were cancelled for nearly 5 months.
I put on my big girl pants when my counselling sessions were cancelled indefinitely and my mental health took a huge hit, because all the things I use to manage it (seeing friends, swimming in the sea, going to the gym etc) weren’t allowed any more.
I put on my big girl pants and lived on very little money while under massive financial pressure when I was on the PUP payment.
That doesn’t even touch the surface on the hardships faced by many people since March 2020, but it’s a start.

I have done that for near over 8 months now, but I need to ‘adapt to the reality things’? This is my reality.
Many other people’s reality is way way worse than mine, people who have kids who can’t pay their mortgages and don’t know how they are going to pay for their next food shop, let alone any Santa presents.

And this is the ‘reality’ you would resign hundreds of thousands of people to for an indefinite time, destroying lives and futures, to ‘protect’ them a virus that by all accounts only appears to be lethal to those who are above the average life expectancy age and have severe underlying conditions.
You are the one who needs to wake up to reality. This isn’t realistic or sustainable and we are inflicting a massive amount of hardship and stress on people. The cure is worse than the cause.

There will be more indirect deaths because of these restrictions/lockdowns than deaths from this virus, mark my words.
But no one cares about that and so long as we’re ‘saving one life from covid’, it doesn’t matter how many other people suffer and die as a result.
It’s absolutely sickening.

I commiserate with all of that, everyone is affected. I am not without problems myself but we don't have the option to just give up.

If we give up we are just a predictable statistic...lost their resolve and paid the price as predicted, that is how complacency in second waves works.

It is hard but we have to soldier on and act with our heads and not our hearts.

Don't Chute! · 07-11-2020 05:08PM

Nofools and End of the Road thanking and responding to each other’s posts. I think that’s all we need to know. Ignore.

nofools · 07-11-2020 05:11PM

acequion wrote: »

Wow but the arrogance and condescension in your posts is quite breathtaking.

Congratulations! Why not write a monologue instead of a play, with just one character. The one who's right about everything. :rolleyes:

The true arrogance is those who won't accept reality because they have publicly pinned their flag to the just a flu mast and are trying to save face.

acequion · 07-11-2020 05:12PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

I put in my big girl pants back in March when I lost my job and took it on the chin.
I put on my big girl pants when I spent 13 weeks alone in my bedroom with my thoughts, in pretty much total isolation during lockdown round one.
I put on my big girl pants when my colposcopies to monitor potential cervical cancer were cancelled for nearly 5 months.
I put on my big girl pants when my counselling sessions were cancelled indefinitely and my mental health took a huge hit, because all the things I use to manage it (seeing friends, swimming in the sea, going to the gym etc) weren’t allowed any more.
I put on my big girl pants and lived on very little money while under massive financial pressure when I was on the PUP payment.
That doesn’t even touch the surface on the hardships faced by many people since March 2020, but it’s a start.

I have done that for near over 8 months now, but I need to ‘adapt to the reality things’? This is my reality.
Many other people’s reality is way way worse than mine, people who have kids who can’t pay their mortgages and don’t know how they are going to pay for their next food shop, let alone any Santa presents.

And this is the ‘reality’ you would resign hundreds of thousands of people to for an indefinite time, destroying lives and futures, to ‘protect’ them a virus that by all accounts only appears to be lethal to those who are above the average life expectancy age and have severe underlying conditions.
You are the one who needs to wake up to reality. This isn’t realistic or sustainable and we are inflicting a massive amount of hardship and stress on people. The cure is worse than the cause.

There will be more indirect deaths because of these restrictions/lockdowns than deaths from this virus, mark my words.
But no one cares about that and so long as we’re ‘saving one life from covid’, it doesn’t matter how many other people suffer and die as a result.
It’s absolutely sickening.

A brilliant post as always Susie and I'm really sorry to hear about all you've gone through. But you're wasting your time justifying your reality and the reality of thousands like you to people like that because they simply don't care. They have little humanity, empathy or even basic respect for others and that comes across very starkly in the way they post. While ironically they claim to care about saving people from Covid. They care about restrictions and the power trip of forcing people to obey them. And belittling and rubbishing people who dare to complain.

And sadly this country is literally riddled with such people and unfortunately many occupy positions of power. Another poster commented that you couldn't be in a worse country in a crisis like this and I fully agree. I plan to get the hell out of Ireland when I retire but unfortunately have a bit to go before I can do that so I really am very worried.

nofools · 07-11-2020 05:13PM

Don't Chute! wrote: »

Nofools and End of the Road thanking and responding to each other’s posts. I think that’s all we need to know. Ignore.

That there is a small minority who don't have their head in the sand here?

You are like a bunch of flat earthers at this point.

SusieBlue · 07-11-2020 05:14PM

nofools wrote: »

I commiserate with all of that, everyone is affected. I am not without problems myself but we don't have the option to just give up.

If we give up we are just a predictable statistic...lost their resolve and paid the price as predicted, that is how complacency in second waves works.

It is hard but we have to soldier on and act with our heads and not our hearts.

Realistically when the money runs out or public buy in completely plummets, we are going to end up going Sweden’s way regardless. We can’t afford another 9 months of this, and the social burden of these lockdowns will be too big to bear by then. They are already hard to bear now, let alone what way this country will be by September 2021.
The question is do we want to continue to decimate the economy and destroy many lives and futures, or just accept that we cannot continue like this and make an honest attempt at actually living with this virus.
I know which one I’d prefer, and it’s the one that doesn’t sacrifice the many for the sake of the few.

nofools · 07-11-2020 05:15PM

acequion wrote: »

A brilliant post as always Susie and I'm really sorry to hear about all you've gone through. But you're wasting your time justifying your reality and the reality of thousands like you to people like that because they simply don't care. They have little humanity, empathy or even basic respect for others and that comes across very starkly in the way they post. While ironically they claim to care about saving people from Covid. They care about restrictions and the power trip of forcing people to obey them. And belittling and rubbishing people who dare to complain.

And sadly this country is literally riddled with such people and unfortunately many occupy positions of power. Another poster commented that you couldn't be in a worse country in a crisis like this and I fully agree. I plan to get the hell out of Ireland when I retire but unfortunately have a bit to go before I can do that so I really am very worried.

The ones with no empathy are those putting pints before the elderly and similar.

This fake (selective) empathy game that gets played here is ridiculous.

Plus those faux heartstrings arguments only work on those devoid of logic.

KindOfIrish · 07-11-2020 05:15PM

Don't Chute! wrote: »

Nofools and End of the Road thanking and responding to each other’s posts. I think that’s all we need to know. Ignore.

I don't even read their posts, never mind to respond. It has to be obvious to everyone that they are at work.

nofools · 07-11-2020 05:17PM

KindOfIrish wrote: »

I don't even read their posts, never mind to respond. It has to be obvious to everyone that they are at work.

Never met the chap, i will add paranoid to the list.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings