Irish Archbishops call for Catholics to be allowed to attend Mass

John Hutton wrote: »

The current plan, as stated by Varadkar, is to go back to level 3 (Mass is banned at level 3) on December 1st and then, when things inevitably get worse again, level 4 and 5 and keep bouncing like this until a vaccine is widely available.

This is worth emphasising.

We are currently enduring a few weeks of level 5 to "save Christmas".

But the Christmas that is planned will have no church services for anyone. No carols. No parties. No shows. No pantomines. No markets. Nothing except shopping and small-family dinners.

John Hutton wrote: »

If Zebra3 had his way and went down the Henry VIII/Cromwellian road and outlawed the Church, which one would have to assume would also involve outlawing Priests, Bishops etc. and hence also outlawing the sacraments, Mass etc. it would be very difficult to practice (note I said practice in my previous post) the faith wouldn't it?


Of course Zebra3 seems very reluctant to actually explain what he means by "outlaw". In this instance it seems fair to look at previous attempts to outlaw the Church in Ireland and assume it would be something along the same lines.

Fair play to you John for starting the thread . .I did have a look at the front page. I just couldn't cope with Zebra3's posts. The gospel of today was very timely. ''Blessed are you when people revile you because of me''.

I really miss mass and the Eucharist . Speaking today to my friends we miss the fellowship of our prayer groups. We now ''meet up'' on zoom three times a week and honestly it makes us feel even more isolated. Bloody zoom!!

I was very ill back in July and was in hospital until the middle of September. I got mass and holy Communion three days in a row in September when I was well enough to go out and about and then the churches were closed under level 3 restrictions, . I was so looking forward to going to Confession because I hadn't been able to get a priest in hospital because of covid restrictions so now I haven't been since July.

30 players can slobber over each other on a rugby pitch for eighty minutes but we cannot exercise our constitutional right by attending religious services! Priests could be jailed if found to be celebrating mass in public. My father used to tell me stories about the Black 'n tans. I never thought I would see the day where I too was forbidden from attending at the celebration of the Eucharist.

I won't be joining you on the thread any further. The likes of Zebra3 really don't understand what they are doing so we can forgive them.

one world order wrote: »

Satan is trying to separate as many people from Jesus Christ before he returns. The bible specifically talks about the mark of the beast in the end times. Covid 19 is the mark. If you look at what the Luciferian illuminati occult are doing they have all the messages in plain sight. Corona stands for 666 as per the book of revelation, Covid 19 stands for certificate of vaccination identification artificial intelligence. Book of Daniel gives a time period of 60 to 70 years after the recreation of Israel before Jesus returns, which is the period we are now in. Those keeping the churches closed will end up in hell, but those continuing to believe the gospel and what Jesus Christ did must endure through all this as Satan will try to take as many souls with him and Christians are his prime target.

Can't wait.

A lot of catholics would want to read their bible!
Matthew 6:5-6
5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

one world order wrote: »

This related to Pharisees with pride in their heart who wanted to be seen as holy. It is misquoted time and time again by those who don't want the gospel preached. Did Jesus stay quiet and warn people about the fires of hell that await? If one soul can be saved then it will have been worth it.

Nobody is stopping the gospels from being preached. Nobody is stopping mass from being said. It just cannot be done in the normal way because we are in the middle of a pandemic.
Are you honestly saying that putting thousands of lives at risk to save one soul by physical attendance at mass is worth it? That's some messed up view of things!

John Hutton wrote: »

Where is the evidence that Mass attendance is putting thousands of lives at risk?

Remember, at level three you can do things like getting your hair cut but can't go to Mass. Why not allow it, with due restrictions in numbers, masks, distancing etc. at level three and only ban it at level five/full lockdown?

I have made this point many times on this thread but it seems to be missed, for Catholics, watching Mass on TV is not the same as attending Mass. When you attend at Mass you assist at it, i.e. the sacrifice, and obviously can receive Eucharist. Watching it on TV, while it has some merits, is no where near the same, religiously speaking, as being there. It's not a case of it being "not as good" but rather fundamentally different.

Now, a protestant of certain denominations may argue that there is not a root difference (fundamentally) for them by not being able to attend divine worship and instead watching on TV, but it is different for Catholics, but they would still argue, as they have in the north and the UK at the moment, that worship should be allowed.

It boils down to the fact that being indoors with a large crowd for an extended period of time puts more people at higher risk than needs be. I do get how important it is to some people, but it doesn't change the fact that it really is not essential. It's not important to the economy and let's face it, most parishes have quite a surplus every year so they are not short of a few quid from the collection plate. I know that one parish in Tralee has had a surplus intake of over 100k in each of the last 2 years.
There has not been 1 really good argument for allowing masses to be honest.

John Hutton wrote: »

It's fifty people, all masked and socially distanced at 2 meters. There will be more people in a supermarket, which would probably be a smaller building.

Your definition of "essential" is merely based on the economy? Would you also ban weddings and funerals? (at which 25 are currently allowed)? Why has pretty much the entire rest of the world, including secular France, decided not to ban Mass? They seem to think that exercising a fundamental human right is "essential".

Since when is going to Mass about money? People are not asking to go to Mass so they can make a donation. It probably would be easier for many priests if the churches remained closed for the duration but the Bishops have reacted to pressure from the laity on this point who are annoyed at being denied access to Mass for an indefinite period.

I wouldn't place any trust in people who think mass is essential to follow scientific guidelines to be fair. Look at the level of maturity shown by three priests recently in speaking about this. One Kerry priest repeating misinformation in his Sunday sermon, despite the fact that he was corrected after first making false claims on the Saturday. Then comparing this lockdown to the terror unleashed by the black and tans 100 years ago. How can you trust people with that mind set to follow strict guidelines.
Anyway, I'm done with all this. I find it hard to reason with one side that basically believes in magic and believes that their belief in magic should have some sort of say in how a government runs a country.

as_mo_bhosca wrote: »

I wouldn't place any trust in people who think mass is essential to follow scientific guidelines to be fair. Look at the level of maturity shown by three priests recently in speaking about this. One Kerry priest repeating misinformation in his Sunday sermon, despite the fact that he was corrected after first making false claims on the Saturday. Then comparing this lockdown to the terror unleashed by the black and tans 100 years ago. How can you trust people with that mind set to follow strict guidelines.
Anyway, I'm done with all this. I find it hard to reason with one side that basically believes in magic and believes that their belief in magic should have some sort of say in how a government runs a country.

If you are that hostile to religion you shouldn't be offering an opinion in the first place.

Obviously an atheist with contempt for religion is going to offer up waffle about mass being "non-essential".

The country isn't a toy that the government can twist into any shape it likes. We all have a say in whether we condone these extreme, disruptive shutdowns.

growleaves wrote: »

If you are that hostile to religion you shouldn't be offering an opinion in the first place.

Obviously an atheist with contempt for religion is going to offer up waffle about mass being "non-essential".

The country isn't a toy that the government can twist into any shape it likes. We all have a say in whether we condone these extreme, disruptive shutdowns.

What is hostile? I just called out some pretty reprehensible behaviour by priests on the matter. Those comments really weren't showing leadership or maturity. Or do you think it's OK to compare restrictions put in place for public health to the atrocities carried out by the black and tans?

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Good and it should never stopped- I don’t know what the Catholic Church, Church of Ireland and all others were thinking of by allowing their services to shut like this.
I’m not my very religious but it means a great deal to many people to worship freely- an absolute cornerstone of our constitution after all. I sincerely hope not to see this carry on repeated

Plenty of people are making sacrifices. People are well capable of worshiping whatever deity they believe in freely from their homes.