FE1 Exam Thread (Read 1st post!) NOTE: YOU MAY SWAP EXAM GRIDS

StabiloLaw · 01-11-2020 05:06PM

Lallers96 wrote: »

I think I need to clarify the language of my previous post. I should not have said the word "random" about this score that is tied to your eye movements or likelihood of fraud.

I am still concerned that when I am staring down as I type, reading my legislation, and looking off into space to think that the software will determine a high score for me. I have read the entire email last night and I fully understand the process.

At this stage I now have a red flag stuck on my exam, and it will be reviewed by an invigilator (for lack of a better word). At this stage then they have to guess if I am cheating or if I am actually just staring at my keyboard, reading my legislation, and staring off into space the odd time. My worry is what if they decide I am cheating, when I am not? This score is determined by a software with controversies surrounding it and I do not trust that as I am staring down at my keypad that it will not decide "oh he's cheating".

Then the onus shifts onto me to defend myself when I have done nothing wrong. *How can I disprove this?* The answer is I can't because I do not have access to my recording, and I also cannot say anything other than "i was looking at my kepypad".

As someone who has apparently invigilated these online exams before pointed out, it is easy to tell when someone is looking away to think, and if someone is cheating. How so? I stare at my keypad when I have to type furiously and I do not move my eyes away from it unless to check if my spelling is okay. My eyes will be focused solely down and moving left to right, and right to left. How can you confidently say that I am not reading off a page based on those eye movements, rather than what I actually am doing which is merely typing? You can't.

If this is a real genuine worry, maybe it would be best if you don't sit the exams online and you'll be more comfortable for a physical sitting hopefully in the near future?

Fe1new4 · 01-11-2020 05:06PM

Trespass to land / Rylands v Fletcher, risky to leave out for tort?

I’m doing
Negl
Causation & remoteness
Vicarious Liability
Employer Liability
Damages
Defamation
Occupier Liability
Defective products
Nuisance
Trespass to person
Skimming prof negligence

maggie95 · 01-11-2020 05:09PM

Lallers96 wrote: »

I think I need to clarify the language of my previous post. I should not have said the word "random" about this score that is tied to your eye movements or likelihood of fraud.

I am still concerned that when I am staring down as I type, reading my legislation, and looking off into space to think that the software will determine a high score for me. I have read the entire email last night and I fully understand the process.

At this stage I now have a red flag stuck on my exam, and it will be reviewed by an invigilator (for lack of a better word). At this stage then they have to guess if I am cheating or if I am actually just staring at my keyboard, reading my legislation, and staring off into space the odd time. My worry is what if they decide I am cheating, when I am not? This score is determined by a software with controversies surrounding it and I do not trust that as I am staring down at my keypad that it will not decide "oh he's cheating".

Then the onus shifts onto me to defend myself when I have done nothing wrong. *How can I disprove this?* The answer is I can't because I do not have access to my recording, and I also cannot say anything other than "i was looking at my kepypad".

As someone who has apparently invigilated these online exams before pointed out, it is easy to tell when someone is looking away to think, and if someone is cheating. How so? I stare at my keypad when I have to type furiously and I do not move my eyes away from it unless to check if my spelling is okay. My eyes will be focused solely down and moving left to right, and right to left. How can you confidently say that I am not reading off a page based on those eye movements, rather than what I actually am doing which is merely typing? You can't.

I sat online exams during summer for college and our professors advised us to record ourselves during the exam, like from a different angle so if there was any question of cheating we can show the video to show that in fact, we were just staring at the blank ceiling or into space.
I'll be doing this for my exams, just putting my phone on my bookshelf behind me and recording, then just upload to the cloud and if I need them I'll be able to dig it up.

It's inconvenient for sure but it's a sure way to excuse yourself if you're innocent.

Lallers96 · 01-11-2020 05:14PM

StabiloLaw wrote: »

If this is a real genuine worry, maybe it would be best if you don't sit the exams online and you'll be more comfortable for a physical sitting hopefully in the near future?

This is a very "don't like it then lump it" response. I find it hilarious you assume I can do all of the following just because I am rightly concerned about failing some of the most important exams of my life because of software which sounds extremely flawed:

- Cancel my leave from work
- Afford to wait for a refund for months (210 euro which I could barely afford in the first place)
- Wait around for the next 4 months to hope COVID-19 magically disappears and we can go down to Dublin in our hundreds and potentially thousands in the same building

maggie95 · 01-11-2020 05:15PM

maggie95 wrote: »

I sat online exams during summer for college and our professors advised us to record ourselves during the exam, like from a different angle so if there was any question of cheating we can show the video to show that in fact, we were just staring at the blank ceiling or into space.
I'll be doing this for my exams, just putting my phone on my bookshelf behind me and recording, then just upload to the cloud and if I need them I'll be able to dig it up.

It's inconvenient for sure but it's a sure way to excuse yourself if you're innocent.

Also further to this, for my legislation, I'm going to hold up the pages that I'm looking at to the camera to show there's only underlining and highlighting - will feel like a proper Youtuber.
I'm also going to place it between me and the laptop so it's clear that the legislation is what I'm looking at.

I've given this quite some thought lol but I really don't want some accusation of cheating to delay this further

Fe119 · 01-11-2020 05:15PM

maggie95 wrote: »

I sat online exams during summer for college and our professors advised us to record ourselves during the exam, like from a different angle so if there was any question of cheating we can show the video to show that in fact, we were just staring at the blank ceiling or into space.
I'll be doing this for my exams, just putting my phone on my bookshelf behind me and recording, then just upload to the cloud and if I need them I'll be able to dig it up.

It's inconvenient for sure but it's a sure way to excuse yourself if you're innocent.

Given that you're only allowed to have your phone face down beside you on airplane mode during the exam I don't think this complies with the regulations

Lallers96 · 01-11-2020 05:16PM

maggie95 wrote: »

I sat online exams during summer for college and our professors advised us to record ourselves during the exam, like from a different angle so if there was any question of cheating we can show the video to show that in fact, we were just staring at the blank ceiling or into space.
I'll be doing this for my exams, just putting my phone on my bookshelf behind me and recording, then just upload to the cloud and if I need them I'll be able to dig it up.

It's inconvenient for sure but it's a sure way to excuse yourself if you're innocent.

As far as I am aware the rules sent to use by the law society requires our phone to be switched off during the exam.

maggie95 · 01-11-2020 05:17PM

Fe119 wrote: »

Given that you're only allowed to have your phone face down beside you on airplane mode during the exam I don't think this complies with the regulations

But they won't know it's in my bookshelf - it's not required to be beside you, only an option.

StabiloLaw · 01-11-2020 05:18PM

Lallers96 wrote: »

This is a very "don't like it then lump it" response. I find it hilarious you assume I can do all of the following just because I am rightly concerned about failing some of the most important exams of my life because of software which sounds extremely flawed:

- Cancel my leave from work
- Afford to wait for a refund for months (210 euro which I could barely afford in the first place)
- Wait around for the next 4 months to hope COVID-19 magically disappears and we can go down to Dublin in our hundreds and potentially thousands in the same building

I didn't assume anything, I just don't want fellow students worried about an online system when there will be other opportunities to sit these exams in the future.

I was trying to be helpful, but since this is the second time in a number of months you've been aggressive to me online for no apparent reason, I guess you really don't want help from me.

Lallers96 · 01-11-2020 05:20PM

StabiloLaw wrote: »

I didn't assume anything, I just don't want fellow students worried about an online system when there will be other opportunities to sit these exams in the future.

I was trying to be helpful, but since this is the second time in a number of months you've been aggressive to me online for no apparent reason, I guess you really don't want help from me.

Unfortunately skipping these exams is absolutely not an option for me, and many others for the reasons I have outlined. I would have thought that was obvious given we are 1 day away from starting.

I also don't appreciate this strange and bizzare accusation that I was previously aggressive towards you. I do not even recognise your username as I do not keep a tally of these things months back, on a forum with several different posters of whom I recognise none.

ihatethesea · 01-11-2020 05:29PM

Fe1new4 wrote: »

Trespass to land / Rylands v Fletcher, risky to leave out for tort?

I’m doing
Negl
Causation & remoteness
Vicarious Liability
Employer Liability
Damages
Defamation
Occupier Liability
Defective products
Nuisance
Trespass to person
Skimming prof negligence

I would say its risky alright. I would leave out products liability/def products before id leave out trespass to land and rylands!:)

ejm47 · 01-11-2020 05:32PM

I don't think any of this debate or aggro serves a purpose. The system isn't perfect but personally I'm glad to be able to sit the exams from the comfort of my home and get them out of the way. No wasted time going to an exam hall and the benefit of looking over notes for the morning in some peace and quiet with a cup of coffee can make all the difference.

The exams are in a couple of days and I have faith that I won't be cheating and I won't be accused of such. It's pretty clear when someone is reading something off a piece of paper and trying to transcribe it and it looks nothing like when you're looking at a keyboard typing away. Have faith that the LS know what it looks like to be a human typing something on a laptop! Realistically they know that we all have to look away at legislation, back and forth to the screen and the keyboard and occasionally out the window and set the score threshold accordingly.

Plenty of ways to be transparent as have been pointed out - holding up legislation and using another phone or whatever to record you from the other side of the room. Hope nobody is stressing about this because it is what it is and we'll just have to get on with it. I'm glad I can do it in my cosy joggers and slippers and go straight for a nap after tbh....

StabiloLaw · 01-11-2020 05:34PM

Lallers96 wrote: »

Unfortunately skipping these exams is absolutely not an option for me, and many others for the reasons I have outlined. I would have thought that was obvious given we are 1 day away from starting.

I also don't appreciate this strange and bizzare accusation that I was previously aggressive towards you. I do not even recognise your username as I do not keep a tally of these things months back, on a forum with several different posters of whom I recognise none.

Again, not an accusation.

I just remember you from the August online sitting announcement where you said we could "Hypothetically write in our answer books", stick pages together with writing on them, etc. Followed by saying you touched a nerve when I stated we didn't want to actually cheat on the online exam.

As someone who was as stressed then about the online sitting as you are now, it upset me enough the days before my exam that I will unfortunately always recognise your username.

EmmaO94 · 01-11-2020 05:46PM

maggie95 wrote: »

Also further to this, for my legislation, I'm going to hold up the pages that I'm looking at to the camera to show there's only underlining and highlighting - will feel like a proper Youtuber.
I'm also going to place it between me and the laptop so it's clear that the legislation is what I'm looking at.

I've given this quite some thought lol but I really don't want some accusation of cheating to delay this further

Love your Youtuber line haha will give me a giggle when I'm doing same in the exam!

shaunadennyham · 01-11-2020 05:46PM

ejm47 wrote: »

I don't think any of this debate or aggro serves a purpose. The system isn't perfect but personally I'm glad to be able to sit the exams from the comfort of my home and get them out of the way. No wasted time going to an exam hall and the benefit of looking over notes for the morning in some peace and quiet with a cup of coffee can make all the difference.

The exams are in a couple of days and I have faith that I won't be cheating and I won't be accused of such. It's pretty clear when someone is reading something off a piece of paper and trying to transcribe it and it looks nothing like when you're looking at a keyboard typing away. Have faith that the LS know what it looks like to be a human typing something on a laptop! Realistically they know that we all have to look away at legislation, back and forth to the screen and the keyboard and occasionally out the window and set the score threshold accordingly.

Plenty of ways to be transparent as have been pointed out - holding up legislation and using another phone or whatever to record you from the other side of the room. Hope nobody is stressing about this because it is what it is and we'll just have to get on with it. I'm glad I can do it in my cosy joggers and slippers and go straight for a nap after tbh....

I would caution anyone against using their phone in this way as LS FAQ document explicitly said that phones must be left face down on airplane mode on the table beside you and it is not permissible to use one as a webcam. If your defence to a cheating allegation is to show that you breached their rules they may not look to favourably on that

Lallers96 · 01-11-2020 05:47PM

StabiloLaw wrote: »

Again, not an accusation.

I just remember you from the August online sitting announcement where you said we could "Hypothetically write in our answer books", stick pages together with writing on them, etc. Followed by saying you touched a nerve when I stated we didn't want to actually cheat on the online exam.

As someone who was as stressed then about the online sitting as you are now, it upset me enough the days before my exam that I will unfortunately always recognise your username.

If a post on a forum is upsetting you that much then you really need to grow a thicker skin because at the end of the day what does it matter what a random person says online. That may sound harsh but your score-keeping on this thread is quite childish. We are a day away from the exams and your answer to me worrying and stressing was "ah just cancel it and wait however many months to sit it in a different environment so". That was you helping me?

If you recognised and clearly have held a childish grudge against me, you were clearly not trying to "help me" you were trying to start a childish fight. This is all a ridiculous waste of both of our times, and the people reading it, so I suggest you go back and study to make up for lost time and I wish you well in your exams as I know how difficult a time this all is for us.

channing90 · 01-11-2020 05:48PM

People being very dramatic here, most people have to look at the keyboard while typing so the eye movement tracking is kinda pointless, it’ll only track your eyes of your looking at the wall. The law society aren’t going to through and watch 50 people’s exams after lets be realistic. If your doing the exam honestly you have nothing to worry about.

maggie95 · 01-11-2020 05:53PM

I'm going to bow out of this thread now as I never find it useful or helpful towards stress during the exams!

Thanks all for the camaraderie and allowing me to vent frustrations over the last number of months.

Good luck to everyone and hopefully I won't be back on here again!

EmmaO94 · 01-11-2020 05:53PM

Yeah I know we're all nervous as the majority of us won't have sat online exams before, so some jitters & trepidation is normal but at the end of the day like if you're being honest and playing by the rules then you should have nothing to worry about. Time better spent on study than stressing out over it all!

Aoibhin511 · 01-11-2020 05:56PM

maggie95 wrote: »

I'm going to bow out of this thread now as I never find it useful or helpful towards stress during the exams!

Thanks all for the camaraderie and allowing me to vent frustrations over the last number of months.

Good luck to everyone and hopefully I won't be back on here again!

Best of luck, hope they go your way

smiley1989 · 01-11-2020 06:23PM

For those of you who are sitting EU law and are stressed out.

When I sat that exam my mind went totally blank and I made a total mess of my paper.

I attempted 5 questions. I answered one question on the completely wrong topic and in my 5th question I just wrote 2 sentences stating what topic the question was based on (only to discover after the exam the question wasnt even based on that topic).

So bassically, having only answered 3 questions I still managed to pass the exam!

The EU examiner is extremely generous!

Mod
Pls do not comment here about examiners

LawLover2020 · 01-11-2020 06:37PM

How long do we have for the online exam? Do we have three or three and a head hours? Also, does anyone else not have a scheduled exam when they log into the online system? I am sitting Tort and when I log into the system on better examinations it does not say if I have an upcoming exam.
Thanks all.

IgoPAP · 01-11-2020 06:39PM

smiley1989 wrote: »

For those of you who are sitting EU law and are stressed out.

When I sat that exam my mind went totally blank and I made a total mess of my paper.

I attempted 5 questions. I answered one question on the completely wrong topic and in my 5th question I just wrote 2 sentences stating what topic the question was based on (only to discover after the exam the question wasnt even based on that topic).

So bassically, having only answered 3 questions I still managed to pass the exam!

The EU examiner is extremely generous!

They need to get a new EU examiner it seems.

Aoibhin511 · 01-11-2020 06:42PM

LawLover2020 wrote: »

How long do we have for the online exam? Do we have three or three and a head hours? Also, does anyone else not have a scheduled exam when they log into the online system? I am sitting Tort and when I log into the system on better examinations it does not say if I have an upcoming exam.
Thanks all.

We have 3.5 hours from 10-1:30 but we can log in between 8:15 and 9:30
I have no scheduled exams yet either, I'm hoping that's something they set up tomorrow! Knowing them it'll probably be done at 5:55pm

shaunadennyham · 01-11-2020 06:48PM

IgoPAP wrote: »

They need to get a new EU examiner it seems.

Oh that’s a bit harsh ?

Bursnea2 · 01-11-2020 06:48PM

Hi all

Just wondering if anyone could let me know what topics they have for criminal?

Can send on any criminal or contract stuff!

Thanks

rickmatt · 01-11-2020 06:50PM

We definitely cannot use a pen and paper for rough-work can we??

Hazel774 · 01-11-2020 06:57PM

rickmatt wrote: »

We definitely cannot use a pen and paper for rough-work can we??

No unfortunately not

There's a notes and sticky notes tool on better examinations though

LS3 · 01-11-2020 07:19PM

https://www.courts.ie/acc/alfresco/9f6e2c6d-eb77-4c9f-ad57-fffe7ffc65f6/2020_IESC_63.pdf/pdf#view=fitH

recent Damache case

LS3 · 01-11-2020 07:24PM

https://www.courts.ie/acc/alfresco/c8f68c25-1d0d-4b45-a314-d79239136db5/2020_IEHC_209.pdf/pdf#view=fitH

Gemma O Doherty Case

FE1 Exam Thread (Read 1st post!) NOTE: YOU MAY SWAP EXAM GRIDS

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