Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 3 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

Can't be easy for players under current circumstances and I'd like to thank them all for getting on with it and providing entertainment. It must be strange for them travelling to matches alone. People all over the country are being affected in different ways, players are people.

Glad it's Galway in the Final as I can't stand Wexford type of play. I expect the match today to bring on our lads and give Galway a right match.

Grats wrote: »

Can't be easy for players under current circumstances and I'd like to thank them all for getting on with it and providing entertainment. It must be strange for them travelling to matches alone. People all over the country are being affected in different ways, players are people.

Glad it's Galway in the Final as I can't stand Wexford type of play. I expect the match today to bring on our lads and give Galway a right match.

Definitely agree it will bring them on but the complacency was poor same happened in the football with monaghan and cavan. Maybe it's the empty stadiums, time of year/uncertainty and water breaks. I saw alot of positives first half's and I don't think we will have a poor showing that bad again

Garyp88 wrote: »

Definitely agree it will bring them on but the complacency was poor same happened in the football with monaghan and cavan. Maybe it's the empty stadiums, time of year/uncertainty and water breaks. I saw alot of positives first half's and I don't think we will have a poor showing that bad again

Kilkenny had a 15 point lead at half time. It felt to me as if Kilkenny said to themselves that Dublin would make a push for the first 10 minutes of the second half. If they could hold them during that period, it was game over. After 10 minutes of the second half, the lead had increased to 16 points and Kilkenny stopped playing. In fairness, Eamon Dillon made a big difference to Dublin. I thought that Billy Ryan's man had got a yellow card but Billy didn't?
Galway were impressive but would prefer to view a match with them involved rather than Wexford

dastardly00 wrote: »

Pretty sure Ryan had got a yellow card earlier

He did for a high tackle.

conor05 wrote: »

If Dublin had of got their tactics right from the start I think they would be in Leinster final, not Kilkenny.

If my aunt had balls she’d be my uncle


And on this nonsense of players having to travel to games on there own in cars and playing in empty stadiums and how strange it must b for them.... It’s total total nonsense... there not babies... Players should (and I’d be thinking most of them are) just get on with it... FFS if all people had to bother them was playing hurling/football in an empty stadium.. then I’d say they are in a good place with little or nothing to worry them...

I'm finding the doom and gloom merchants posting on here quite amusing. I would happily have taken a one point win before the start of yesterdays game, even if the game went the opposite way to the way I thought it would go. I thought we would be slow out of the blocks with Dublin benefitting from last weeks game and winning the early exchanges. While Dublin gave as good as they got in the early exchanges they were then blown away by our forward movement, workrate and ruthlessness in front of goal. Going man to man was only ever going to produce one winner so credit to Dublin for changing things up to bring them back into the game.

So what exactly happened in the second half? In my opinion there was a number of factors at play. Undoubtedly the change to a sweeper system benefitted Dublin but that wasn't the only factor. If Dublin had started with a sweeper I dont think the start of the game would have been just like the second half. A lack of proper match sharpness was also likely an important factor too. Challenge games, as useful as they are do not replicate the intensity and do or die(as yesterday essentially was) nature of championship games. A little bit of tiredness also came into play yesterday but I'll leave that one for now. Dublin had a game last week against an admittedly average Laois team but after last years result they would have approached that game in championship mode and with much to prove. So I think yesterday's blow out will bring our lads on a lot.

I think Dublin have been underestimated in all of this. They have loads of good hurlers and we have put us to the pin of our collar in the last few years. Let's not also forget that they knocked Galway out last year so they always have one or two big performances in them every year if maybe not the wherewithal to properly challenge at the big table. There are some people on here that think anything less than a 30 point win in every game with non stop short passing from goalie to corner back for every move and no mistakes made whatsoever is a failure and Cody should be sacked. Those people need to get real.

The inter county game has never been as competitive as it is now and other teams have good players and set ups too. And to the short passing bed wetters - personally I prefer the old fashioned long ball game with man on man hurling rather than this ugly short passing(throwing the ball in Limericks case) possession orientated monstrosity that a lot of teams are adopting now.

Back to yesterday - I think we need to review the make up of the back 6 and would not to see a few changes and positional switches for the next day. The front 6 probably picks itself again.

therealdonster wrote: »

I'm finding the doom and gloom merchants posting on here quite amusing. I would happily have taken a one point win before the start of yesterdays game, even if the game went the opposite way to the way I thought it would go. I thought we would be slow out of the blocks with Dublin benefitting from last weeks game and winning the early exchanges. While Dublin gave as good as they got in the early exchanges they were then blown away by our forward movement, workrate and ruthlessness in front of goal. Going man to man was only ever going to produce one winner so credit to Dublin for changing things up to bring them back into the game.

So what exactly happened in the second half? In my opinion there was a number of factors at play. Undoubtedly the change to a sweeper system benefitted Dublin but that wasn't the only factor. If Dublin had started with a sweeper I dont think the start of the game would have been just like the second half. A lack of proper match sharpness was also likely an important factor too. Challenge games, as useful as they are do not replicate the intensity and do or die(as yesterday essentially was) nature of championship games. A little bit of tiredness also came into play yesterday but I'll leave that one for now. Dublin had a game last week against an admittedly average Laois team but after last years result they would have approached that game in championship mode and with much to prove. So I think yesterday's blow out will bring our lads on a lot.

I think Dublin have been underestimated in all of this. They have loads of good hurlers and we have put us to the pin of our collar in the last few years. Let's not also forget that they knocked Galway out last year so they always have one or two big performances in them every year if maybe not the wherewithal to properly challenge at the big table. There are some people on here that think anything less than a 30 point win in every game with non stop short passing from goalie to corner back for every move and no mistakes made whatsoever is a failure and Cody should be sacked. Those people need to get real.

The inter county game has never been as competitive as it is now and other teams have good players and set ups too. And to the short passing bed wetters - personally I prefer the old fashioned long ball game with man on man hurling rather than this ugly short passing(throwing the ball in Limericks case) possession orientated monstrosity that a lot of teams are adopting now.

Back to yesterday - I think we need to review the make up of the back 6 and would not to see a few changes and positional switches for the next day. The front 6 probably picks itself again.

Here here finally some common sense I said after the game there were alot of positives first half

therealdonster wrote: »

I'm finding the doom and gloom merchants posting on here quite amusing. I would happily have taken a one point win before the start of yesterdays game, even if the game went the opposite way to the way I thought it would go. I thought we would be slow out of the blocks with Dublin benefitting from last weeks game and winning the early exchanges. While Dublin gave as good as they got in the early exchanges they were then blown away by our forward movement, workrate and ruthlessness in front of goal. Going man to man was only ever going to produce one winner so credit to Dublin for changing things up to bring them back into the game.

So what exactly happened in the second half? In my opinion there was a number of factors at play. Undoubtedly the change to a sweeper system benefitted Dublin but that wasn't the only factor. If Dublin had started with a sweeper I dont think the start of the game would have been just like the second half. A lack of proper match sharpness was also likely an important factor too. Challenge games, as useful as they are do not replicate the intensity and do or die(as yesterday essentially was) nature of championship games. A little bit of tiredness also came into play yesterday but I'll leave that one for now. Dublin had a game last week against an admittedly average Laois team but after last years result they would have approached that game in championship mode and with much to prove. So I think yesterday's blow out will bring our lads on a lot.

I think Dublin have been underestimated in all of this. They have loads of good hurlers and we have put us to the pin of our collar in the last few years. Let's not also forget that they knocked Galway out last year so they always have one or two big performances in them every year if maybe not the wherewithal to properly challenge at the big table. There are some people on here that think anything less than a 30 point win in every game with non stop short passing from goalie to corner back for every move and no mistakes made whatsoever is a failure and Cody should be sacked. Those people need to get real.

The inter county game has never been as competitive as it is now and other teams have good players and set ups too. And to the short passing bed wetters - personally I prefer the old fashioned long ball game with man on man hurling rather than this ugly short passing(throwing the ball in Limericks case) possession orientated monstrosity that a lot of teams are adopting now.

Back to yesterday - I think we need to review the make up of the back 6 and would not to see a few changes and positional switches for the next day. The front 6 probably picks itself again.

That's fine but when other teams are playing a sweeper and the majority of the long, high, coming down with ice passes that we are hitting are been swept up by the defense who have two to one coverage, it might be a good idea to have some form of variation in the passing rather than just repeating the same thing over and over again and getting the same results. You don't have to go full Limerick or Wexford even but high hanging passes straight down the middle are a gift for most defenses these days. Even in the first half yesterday we hit some sharp diagonal passes for Billy Ryan and Eoin Cody to run onto to and they worked fine and we got some decent scores from them but in the second half we reverted to type and struggled to win the ball let alone clear ball in the forward line.

Ok so men,
How would you have set up for the 2nd half yesterday, knowing dublin would have the sweeper system in place?
Surely they have talked about this in the Kilkenny camp after last years Wexford match and we would have been expecting to meet the system at some stage this year again.
Are we really that limited?
Can E Murphy not pick someone out with puckouts or is he just doing as he is told?
Can our defence not try to use the ball a bit more when up against a sweeper or are they just doing as told?
Is it a coaching issue or player issue?
Gone is the day where you can just go on the back foot and lump ball after ball forward(although it did work in 1st half). Hurling has changed over the last 5 years.
Is our club game a problem?? Most clubs a bit similar to county team, i.e direct style of play.
Any thoughts?

You would be disappointed with the way our half back line and midfield use the ball at times. All good hurlers but at times its brainless stuff.our midfield is a problem not sure going back to Buckley and fogarty is the answer
And richie reid has to hit the ground running .i would still rather be in our position than wexford .

sportsmaddad wrote: »

Maybe some soft frees given away, but I think a lot of them were in the refs imagination. I just checked the stats, 2nd half free count 15 to 6 in Dublin's favour. Anyone think that was an accurat reflection of the game?
I think it was a huge factor in bringing Dublin back into the gane. And not just the scorable frees, the number of decent KK attacks that came to an end for ridiculous frees was doing my head in...

The Dublin bench were extremely vocal, I don't know if this was a factor. You could hear them screeching for frees or for steps continually

Limerick's final point before half-time is a great example of what we struggle it. Limerick defender has the ball in his own half and looks down the pitch to see 2 Limerick forwards against 3 Tipp backs. The Limerick player with the ball decided to play a lovely diagonal pass in front of Mulcahy, who gathers it and scores. That type of pass down the field completely takes out the spare Tipp defender.

Too often in that situation we would have launched it sky high and the KK forward would be competing with 2 Tipp backs to catch the ball

Village87 wrote: »

Kilkenny very very average without TJ. In the first half alone TJ was involved in nearly 80% of the scores including the 3 goals. He is carrying the thing over the line every match. Kilkenny are getting worse every year with the exception of the great TJ, will need a big performance with everything going Kilkennys way to beat Galway and TJ to score and be involved in another 3-13 again. Another very average display from midfielders and backs. Our skill level in that area seem to be poor.

Hard not to agree with this. Nearly every score in the first half, TJ seemed to be involved in it.

We couldn't beat Wexford last year in the championship because Matthew O'Hanlon was doing a man- marking job on TJ and the other forwards didn't step up enough.

He is not going to be able to carry the team through the next 3-4 matches by himself to win an All Ireland.

Garyp88 wrote: »

Just want to run an idea and get opinions off people so don't have a go but do people think it's time for a change at the top. The reason I say this is things look stale, no plan bs and as the game is evolving kilkenny are not despite have some technically gifted players. Was listening to the Sunday game and they was saying that mickey harte up in Tyrone had basically ran out of ideas despite having a good panel and it's time to move on.

I just wonder if the same could be in kilkenny. I'm not calling for the axe but would a change of ideas and heads result in our game developing. Limerick and Wexford were in dire straights a few years ago and since John kiely and davy have gone in they've improved greatly and evolved a style which suits there players and gameplan. Kilkenny however seem to be lost in that they want to achieve and haven't really kicked on or have a plan b. The game has changed alot in the last few years yet we don't seem to have. You look at the level of hurling limerick, tipp, Wexford and Galway play and its streets ahead of what we have, even clare on there day are a joy to watch were we always look rushed and not composed.

Like I say it's just a thought but our brand of hurling is not great. I know these are testing times etc and not ideal but this has been round abit.

I said it here 2/3 years ago it will be 10 years until Kilkenny win an all ireland from the last one. They last won one in 2015

In the next 2/3 years TJ and especially TJ who is now 33, Richie Hogan, Padraig Walsh, Colin Fennelly, Cillian Buckley, Walter Walsh will be gone or very close to it. Kilkenny underage record last 10/12 years is poor. Could be lean few years ahead. Minor teams last 10 years have been poor for Kilkenny standard.

A few years ago we got beat by Westmeath in u21 championship. On that team that played Saturday were Conor Delaney, Huh Lawlor, Paddy Deegan, Conor Browne, Billy Ryan, Alan Murphy.

Village87 wrote: »

Kilkenny very very average without TJ. In the first half alone TJ was involved in nearly 80% of the scores including the 3 goals. He is carrying the thing over the line every match. Kilkenny are getting worse every year with the exception of the great TJ, will need a big performance with everything going Kilkennys way to beat Galway and TJ to score and be involved in another 3-13 again. Another very average display from midfielders and backs. Our skill level in that area seem to be poor.

In the first half things looked very good.We smoothered their attack and sprayed nice bal into attack.To turn around and lump hit and hope ball after ball in the second half was dissapointing.
Not to be signalling out two lads but browne and hogan had 3 chances and hit poor wides.
I will give dublin credit and it's hard to stop that when it starts to turn but we see what limerick done yesterday when tipp started a fight back.
It's back to the drawing board again I dont think deegan is good enough for 6 and that midfield was tried back 6 or 8 years ago.We know these are problem positions we don't seem to be trying to fix it.Dissapointed we changed fowards first while being over run in midfield.
Did donnelly tire?billy was dangerous in the first half were they afraid of the yellow card?
Huge improvements needed!!