Schools closed until February? (part 3)

31-10-2020 08:21PM

JP100 wrote: »

Schools close for over a week and case numbers drop off a cliff! Shock! Horror!

Average incubation or 5 to 7 days, 2 days from referral to test result, numbers dropping for over a week. Do the sums

combat14 · 31-10-2020 08:44PM

lets see what happens when schools reopen .. give it about 2 weeks and we will know 1 way or the other

Smacruairi · 31-10-2020 08:47PM

combat14 wrote: »

lets see what happens when schools reopen .. give it about 2 weeks and we will know 1 way or the other

True. But what are the odds Halloween parties will be blamed if the numbers are shaky..

wirelessdude01 · 31-10-2020 08:51PM

combat14 wrote: »

lets see what happens when schools reopen .. give it about 2 weeks and we will know 1 way or the other

Anything and everything else will be blamed. Trick and treating(which didn't happen here), house parties(none here that I've heard or heard about), pigs flying. Literally any of these will be used as the reason why.

wirelessdude01 · 31-10-2020 08:59PM

Principals perspective.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40073627.html?type=amp&__twitter_impression=true

31-10-2020 09:29PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Anything and everything else will be blamed. Trick and treating(which didn't happen here), house parties(none here that I've heard or heard about), pigs flying. Literally any of these will be used as the reason why.

Has the decision been made that schools closing last Friday have caused the fall in cases since last Friday? Because that makes absolutely no sense. In the absence of any other changes, if cases start to rise in 10 to 14 days it can only have been the return of schools, however that does not mean that the current fall was caused by midterm, which is a ridiculous suggestion

Icyseanfitz · 31-10-2020 09:42PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Has the decision been made that schools closing last Friday have caused the fall in cases since last Friday? Because that makes absolutely no sense. In the absence of any other changes, if cases start to rise in 10 to 14 days it can only have been the return of schools, however that does not mean that the current fall was caused by midterm, which is a ridiculous suggestion

Id agree with you except students not having to go to school might have led people not to bother going for tests imo, easier to just keep them home with a cough/cold symptoms instead of getting them tested.

31-10-2020 09:45PM

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Id agree with you except students not having to go to school might have led people not to bother going for tests imo, easier to just keep them home with a cough/cold symptoms instead of getting them tested.

I’d agree with you, however the trend started on the 21st

Thats me · 31-10-2020 10:12PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Has the decision been made that schools closing last Friday have caused the fall in cases since last Friday?

New cases counts started decreasing before Level 5 was introduced. Most likely raise initially was caused by number of successful virus-sharing party. Even now as far i can see university students would ignore all recommendations, they never keep 2m distance from others on the street, couple nights ago they had noisy in-house party in our estate. Who knows do they have contacts with yonger students who will fill schools next Monday.

MelbourneMan · 31-10-2020 11:21PM

Thats me wrote: »

New cases counts started decreasing before Level 5 was introduced. Most likely raise initially was caused by number of successful virus-sharing party. Even now as far i can see university students would ignore all recommendations, they never keep 2m distance from others on the street, couple nights ago they had noisy in-house party in our estate. Who knows do they have contacts with yonger students who will fill schools next Monday.

Hello.

There is an nuance to the dynamic that appear missing in the much of the discourse I see from my quick skim here.

New cases were probably decreasing before the move to L5, showing that L3+ as we might call it, was having a curtailing effect on the transmission rate. But it is incorrect - and I would like to be very clear on this point - for anyone to deduce from this that L3 was going to serve our purposes. It was not. Not because the cases were not going to be reduced, but because the absolute numbers were already too high, and the rate of increase was already too steep on the exponential curve, and was going to exceed the capacity of the HSE to handle the case load. A stronger action was necessary to increase the rate of reduction in cases in a short period. This will now come through very dramatically of the coming week I project.

Overall, I feel the controls implemented of the last two months will prove on analysis to have been very well judged.

downthemiddle · 31-10-2020 11:55PM

MelbourneMan wrote: »

Hello.

But it is incorrect - and I would like to be very clear on this point - for anyone to deduce from this that L3 was going to serve our purposes. .

I'm bored tonight so I'm going to bite.
Please produce your evidence to show why you are so clear on this point.

FeirmeoirtTed · 01-11-2020 12:01AM

2ndcoming wrote: »

This is the problem with Boards, Facebook, and social media in general nowadays. The loonies just keep banging on with their agenda until everyone any way sane eventually just get exasperated and give up.

Then you just end up with a loony echo chamber like the CA forum with a bunch of headers thinking their views are normal because there's no one left to disagree with them.

100 % agree this is the major problem with social media and all forums.
Once upon a time a gob****e would say something fecking stupid and there would always be enough sensible people in the room to say hey thats a gob****e idea, the gob****e would then have to reevaluate and learn to be less of a gob****e.
The Internet ****ed that all up now because gob****es have unlimited access to other gob****es and the only thing worse than a gob****e is a gang of gob****es with gob****e ideas egging each other on. There is no time for self appraisal/ reflection. And an even bigger problem is the sensible people couldnt be arsed arguing with said gob****es so said gob****es convince themselves they must be right because no one is challenging them and other gob****es are agreeing with them. Common sense is becoming less common.

eagle eye · 01-11-2020 03:50AM

FeirmeoirtTed wrote:

100 % agree this is the major problem with social media and all forums. Once upon a time a gob****e would say something fecking stupid and there would always be enough sensible people in the room to say hey thats a gob****e idea, the gob****e would then have to reevaluate and learn to be less of a gob****e. The Internet ****ed that all up now because gob****es have unlimited access to other gob****es and the only thing worse than a gob****e is a gang of gob****es with gob****e ideas egging each other on. There is no time for self appraisal/ reflection. And an even bigger problem is the sensible people couldnt be arsed arguing with said gob****es so said gob****es convince themselves they must be right because no one is challenging them and other gob****es are agreeing with them. Common sense is becoming less common.

You could have just said that social media is the voice of the stupid.
It would have saved you a lot if time and *'s.

wirelessdude01 · 01-11-2020 09:09AM

See schools still haven't been given any details.

Actually looking around I can't find any reporting anywhere of what exactly these new resources are going to be other than a vague suggestion that school inspectors will be redeployed to it.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/principals-fury-over-lack-of-hse-contacts-39692260.html

Thats me · 01-11-2020 10:27AM

MelbourneMan wrote: »

New cases were probably decreasing before the move to L5, showing that L3+ as we might call it, was having a curtailing effect on the transmission rate. But it is incorrect - and I would like to be very clear on this point - for anyone to deduce from this that L3 was going to serve our purposes. It was not. Not because the cases were not going to be reduced, but because the absolute numbers were already too high, and the rate of increase was already too steep on the exponential curve, and was going to exceed the capacity of the HSE to handle the case load. A stronger action was necessary to increase the rate of reduction in cases in a short period.

I understand the reason and completely agree with this decision. What i cannot agree is leaving schools open for duration of L5 instead of switching to distant education or just extending school holidays for the time of L5.

khalessi · 01-11-2020 10:37AM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

See schools still haven't been given any details.

Actually looking around I can't find any reporting anywhere of what exactly these new resources are going to be other than a vague suggestion that school inspectors will be redeployed to it.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/principals-fury-over-lack-of-hse-contacts-39692260.html

Colour me surprised.
Their own roadmap when they finally issued it a few months ago declared Level 5 stays open with extra resources. They wrote that published it and had no clue what these were.

Between this statement and the revelation on Thursday that they were deliberately being conservative with their identification of close contacts in schools. They should stay shut and I am all for staying open but this lot could not organise a piss up in a brewery.

wadacrack · 01-11-2020 11:10AM

https://twitter.com/DrTomFrieden/status/1322570327734497285

khalessi · 01-11-2020 11:12AM

wadacrack wrote: »

https://twitter.com/DrTomFrieden/status/1322570327734497285

When you combine that with this
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1031/1175008-schools-covid/

where " public health consultant Dr Abigail Collins acknowledged something that some school staff and parents have suspected of late: that when it comes to testing in schools, and who is or isn't regarded as a close contact, different rules apply. They are right about different rules applying. Dr Collins freely acknowledged on Thursday that public health officials are being deliberately conservative when it comes to who is deemed a close contact in a school setting. When it comes to public health, she explained, it's not just about Covid."

It is a recipe for disaster. Could this be responsible for the unknown cases.
They are playing with us.

Treppen · 01-11-2020 11:13AM

wadacrack wrote: »

https://twitter.com/DrTomFrieden/status/1322570327734497285

Ya but they're immune once they pass the school gates.

khalessi · 01-11-2020 11:15AM

I will tell you how interested people are in what is happening in schools.

I put that link and quote here, the main thread and the ASTI have voted to strike over covid thread. Nowhere did anyone think the fact that the teachers were right and that parents and school staff are being lied to, was worthy of discussion.

wirelessdude01 · 01-11-2020 11:20AM

irishblessing wrote: »

Wait a minute....
Did Normal Foley (?) not just claim that only 1% of schools had cases? Anyone remember?

From the article:

"The Irish Examiner asked eight principals of different primary schools around the country about their experience of the term so far. Of 530 schools, one in four said they’ve dealt with a positive Covid case since the beginning of term."

In fairness to Norma she did say 10%.

wirelessdude01 · 01-11-2020 11:31AM

irishblessing wrote: »

Thanks, couldn't find it on google this morning.
Does that check out then with what the principles say 1 in 4?

10% against 25% so no. Remember the NPF is primary only.

khalessi · 01-11-2020 11:32AM

irishblessing wrote: »

This whole situation is insane. Will there a be a strike so, since there is no information as to what is going to be specifically provided/conceded on?

We are agonising over sending the kids back tomorrow. I can keep them home with me, I can manage the schoolwork with them, it's not ideal of course. But I don't know how to send them in consciously knowing that there's so much mismanagement and concealing happening which compromises all our safety. I just read an article yesterday about the effects of long covid that researches are learning more and more about. Covid causes the immune system to basically attack itself instead of the virus.
I don't want to roll the dice with my family's health.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/27/health/covid-antibodies-autoimmunity.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&fbclid=IwAR0X5RzwnaZW2lS0KMUmlEbM6i1ipeCaDGK5ixuX6h-zLmIXIjjLVdXY930

I dont know, I do know that in their own plan they put extra measures for schools to be open in Level 5, that was edited out. They then announced the new teams, which are the inspectors who were supposed to be covid inspectors and check for compliance, so still the same apart from now calling them teams. So classes and groups -bubbles and pods, covid inspectors now teams, they like renaming stuff, Im waiting for teacher- educational facillitator.

According to Wireless's link above still nothing re lack of details for principals and schools reopening tomorrow.

It is all very confusing and worrying. I can only see in my own school how cases are low but that is down to and hour/hour and a half every day scrubbing hands and leaving windows open.

I think if they dont get their fingers out and stop just making pr statements the schools should close as the government cannot be trusted

Thats me · 01-11-2020 11:54AM

irishblessing wrote: »

Covid causes the immune system to basically attack itself instead of the virus.
I don't want to roll the dice with my family's health.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/27/health/covid-antibodies-autoimmunity.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&fbclid=IwAR0X5RzwnaZW2lS0KMUmlEbM6i1ipeCaDGK5ixuX6h-zLmIXIjjLVdXY930

That was already known back in March.. What is still being discovered it is range of subsequences of this illness. It seems can destroy anything, and even cause male infertility. And nobody at the moment will say now what will happen in future with these who had "recovered" from C19 even if it was symptomless case. Better to avoid getting this virus by any means.

Thats me · 01-11-2020 12:14PM

Cherry for the tart: Most face masks to protect against coronavirus do not meet standards

Though statements are looking somewhat contraductory:

“I would say, from trawling products, that the majority are not complying with any specification at all,”

while

“without testing we don’t know if they comply or not”

teachinggal123 · 01-11-2020 04:00PM

irishblessing wrote: »

There can be no denying now that the government are obscuring data and releasing false figures to the Irish people.

That is a serious accusation.

Is there any evidence - as opposed to hyperbole - to support your claim?

wirelessdude01 · 01-11-2020 04:20PM

irishblessing wrote: »

We literally just talked about it this morning. Norma Foley says 10% of schools have had cases. According to a survey from school principals of NPC members, at least 1 in 4 or 25% have dealt with covid cases.

The government have also not addressed the discrepancy in their figures from cases/clusters in the schools from the verified evidence from the group "Alerting parents of outbreaks in schools which is considerably higher.

It is also now clear that they have admitted to changing the definition of a close contact in the schools for reasons other than health related.

Dr Collins freely acknowledged on Thursday that public health officials are being deliberately conservative when it comes to who is deemed a close contact in a school setting. "When it comes to public health, she explained, it's not just about Covid."

You only had to scroll back a few posts to read all this. :rolleyes:

Ohh I see herself is back. The poster in question has some serious issues with teaching and teachers despite claiming to be one. She should be working for The Village such is the amount of whistleblowing she claimed to be doing in previous threads. Pinch of salt required when considering the content and tone of said posters posts.

Beasty · 01-11-2020 05:33PM

irishblessing wrote: »

There can be no denying now that the government are obscuring data and releasing false figures to the Irish people.

A very serious allegation. I do not believe you have anything to support this claim, and it is your "opinion" rather than fact. Please ensure you make that clear when posting such claims

meeeeh · 01-11-2020 05:42PM

Both Conservatives and Labour are in agreement that schools should stay open. Unions can now hope Corbyn will create looney antisemitic party and support their cause.

BTW I saw Sophie Ridge interview. It was said schools and more of the industry are open this time not just schools as that article is implying (quality Daily Mail stuff as usual).

Beasty · 01-11-2020 06:26PM

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Schools closed until February? (part 3)

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