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Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

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    #8372
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    My wife would say "I'm going for a walk with the girls".

    Would I refer to any of her friends as girls? I would not.

    Same way we hear male players saying "the boys and I did our best" but we don't call it a boys team or refer to them as the boys.

    Hardly a big deal either way, but I generally wouldn't refer to a group of females as 'girls' in an unfamiliar setting.


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    #8373
    OldRio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,962 ✭✭✭OldRio


    After reading the last few posts I've come to the conclusion..... FFS.


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    #8374
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,313 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Come on you boys in green


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    #8375
    shootermacg
    Registered Users Posts: 4,843 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    How did peoplekind get here?


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    #8376
    errlloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 12,604 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Same way we hear male players saying "the boys and I did our best" but we don't call it a boys team or refer to them as the boys.

    It's also just true that our men's team don't ever have to struggle for legitimacy, but our women's team constantly do.


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    #8377
    TomsOnTheRoof
    Registered Users Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭TomsOnTheRoof


    S02E07-m9lZtbLp-subtitled.jpg


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    #8378
    siltirocker
    Registered Users Posts: 1,846 ✭✭✭siltirocker


    WhoamI2022 wrote: »
    I think you might not be telling the whole truth :-) let’s leave it at that

    Could you expand though? You can't state someone is not telling the truth and not back it up.

    Carty was man of the match against Wales, and he did set up the two tries against Japan.

    To be honest I read the stat in the 42.ie and in fairness a quick scan of those tries seems to support it that too.

    Larmour's try vs Wales. Carty's grubber on halfway sent Stockdale to the 5m line, from the resulting rucks Carty threw a looping pass over 2 or 3 players which left Larmour with a 1 on 1 to get over.

    Marmion try against Italy was a block down and he had no involvement.

    Aki's try against England. The flat pass to Aki was from Carty. (Although Aki did most the work definitely in that one).

    Stockdale's first against Wales was from Carty breaking the line and offloading from 3 defenders to Conway, who popped it out for Stockdale to go over.

    Stockdale's second was a solo chase capitilising on a Welsh mistake.

    Ringrose against Japan was from a Carty crossfield kick.

    Kearney against Japan was Carty chip over the top which he collected and slapped down into Kearney's hands to go over.

    Conway against Russia was from a chip over the top from Carty into Ringrose who put Conway in.

    Then Ringrose against Japan, which Carty was involved in, but in no stand out way as it was a team try.

    That's 9 tries I counted and 6 of which he was arguably the prime creator in.

    I think it sufficiently answers your initial point?: When has Carty done well for Ireland?


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    #8379
    swiwi_
    Registered Users Posts: 4,490 ✭✭✭swiwi_


    pickarooney wrote: »
    They may be amateur but they're still adults. Women, not girls.

    I have to say I’m a bit surprised by your post pickarooney. As someone who lives in France, you would (should) know that female rugby players refer to themselves as « filles » not « femmes » much like you often hear « girls » and not « women » in the English speaking world.

    As an aside, when I’m cheering on my teams, I tend to say come on « boys » or « lads » and never « men ».

    I’d say girls is a term of endearment and not discrimination or sexism.


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    #8380
    siltirocker
    Registered Users Posts: 1,846 ✭✭✭siltirocker


    92625.jpg?b64lines=IC0gc2lsdGksIFdIQVQgSVMgSVQgV0lUSCBZT1UgYW5kIApqYWNrIGNhcnR5PwoKCgoKCgoKCgotIEkgIEpVU1QgVEhJTksgSGUncyBORUFULg==


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    #8381
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,283 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    errlloyd wrote: »
    It's also just true that our men's team don't ever have to struggle for legitimacy, but our women's team constantly do.

    no need for the pearl clutching here, no one is questioning anyones legitimacy.

    if posters want to take offence on behalf of others where absolutely none exists, so be it, that's their crutch... but do not dare bring something into it that is not there to begin with.


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    #8382
    OneLungDavy
    Registered Users Posts: 367 ✭✭OneLungDavy


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    no need for the pearl clutching here, no one is questioning anyones legitimacy.

    if posters want to take offence on behalf of others where absolutely none exists, so be it, that's their crutch... but do not dare bring something into it that is not there to begin with.


    Welcome to identity politics 2020


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    #8383
    WhoamI2022
    Closed Accounts Posts: 180 ✭✭WhoamI2022


    siltirocker wrote: »
    Could you expand though? You can't state someone is not telling the truth and not back it up.

    Carty was man of the match against Wales, and he did set up the two tries against Japan.

    To be honest I read the stat in the 42.ie and in fairness a quick scan of those tries seems to support it that too.

    Larmour's try vs Wales. Carty's grubber on halfway sent Stockdale to the 5m line, from the resulting rucks Carty threw a looping pass over 2 or 3 players which left Larmour with a 1 on 1 to get over.

    Marmion try against Italy was a block down and he had no involvement.

    Aki's try against England. The flat pass to Aki was from Carty. (Although Aki did most the work definitely in that one).

    Stockdale's first against Wales was from Carty breaking the line and offloading from 3 defenders to Conway, who popped it out for Stockdale to go over.

    Stockdale's second was a solo chase capitilising on a Welsh mistake.

    Ringrose against Japan was from a Carty crossfield kick.

    Kearney against Japan was Carty chip over the top which he collected and slapped down into Kearney's hands to go over.

    Conway against Russia was from a chip over the top from Carty into Ringrose who put Conway in.

    Then Ringrose against Japan, which Carty was involved in, but in no stand out way as it was a team try.

    That's 9 tries I counted and 6 of which he was arguably the prime creator in.

    I think it sufficiently answers your initial point?: When has Carty done well for Ireland?


    Carty started ok v Wales but disappeared after a decent start. It wasn't a great Welsh team with a number of players not even making the cut.

    The Japan game was a nightmare. Yes he started well but when the pressure came on he was lost, along with other members of the team of course but he is in the critical role at 10.

    Of the two reference games you used he has maybe managed 40-60 mins of decent play.

    The original point was he was a good sub, the Italy game warm up when he came on for Carbery, he wasn't good. The game v Russia in World Cup, again he wasn't good. I do not want to go into a bashing of an Irish player just for the fun of it but Carty has been given a decent chance and so far has failed to deliver. Time to look at other options like R Byrne, B Burns and maybe longer term Healy, H Byrne


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    #8384
    errlloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 12,604 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    no need for the pearl clutching here, no one is questioning anyones legitimacy.

    if posters want to take offence on behalf of others where absolutely none exists, so be it, that's their crutch... but do not dare bring something into it that is not there to begin with.

    I was quoting Venjur, not you Syd. No one on this forum is trying to delegitimise our women's team - and I did not suggest you were or mean to cast the implication that you were. But we can all do our part to make it more difficult for those elsewhere to do it.


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    #8385
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    swiwi_ wrote: »
    I have to say I’m a bit surprised by your post pickarooney. As someone who lives in France, you would (should) know that female rugby players refer to themselves as « filles » not « femmes » much like you often hear « girls » and not « women » in the English speaking world.

    As an aside, when I’m cheering on my teams, I tend to say come on « boys » or « lads » and never « men ».

    I’d say girls is a term of endearment and not discrimination or sexism.

    Women for the vast majority of history have been second class citizens. Some people use the word 'girl' in a derogatory context. Similarly the use of the word 'boy' towards certain minorities historically was used as a way to undermine and dismiss.

    I don't think anyone has done that in this thread what so ever and I didn't pick up on it when I read the comment the first time.

    With that said - I do know women who can be defensive about being referred to as a 'girl' in certain contexts so it's something I would be generally mindful about.
    sydthebeat wrote: »
    no need for the pearl clutching here, no one is questioning anyones legitimacy.

    if posters want to take offence on behalf of others where absolutely none exists, so be it, that's their crutch... but do not dare bring something into it that is not there to begin with.

    I don't think he is pearl clutching nor was he insinuating that you posted with any kind of bad faith in mind.


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    #8386
    siltirocker
    Registered Users Posts: 1,846 ✭✭✭siltirocker


    WhoamI2022 wrote: »
    Carty started ok v Wales but disappeared after a decent start. It wasn't a great Welsh team with a number of players not even making the cut.

    He was literally Man Of The Match in that game.
    WhoamI2022 wrote: »
    Carty has been given a decent chance and so far has failed to deliver.

    Seems to me like all the points and evidence provided aren't going to do much, as you've made up your mind.


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    #8387
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,283 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    errlloyd wrote: »
    I was quoting Venjur, not you Syd. No one on this forum is trying to delegitimise our women's team - and I did not suggest you were or mean to cast the implication that you were. But we can all do our part to make it more difficult for those elsewhere to do it.
    venjur wrote: »
    I don't think he is pearl clutching nor was he insinuating that you posted with any kind of bad faith in mind..

    fair enough, i picked up the point of those posts wrong then.

    as an ex club chairperson i know all too well how difficult it is for womens rugby to break through barriers for acceptance and i have done, and continue to do, my utmost to improve things where i can.

    but at the end of the day i refer to the players of our women's team as "our girls" and the players for our mens team as "our boys" and i have yet to have anyone have an issue with that.


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    #8388
    WhoamI2022
    Closed Accounts Posts: 180 ✭✭WhoamI2022


    siltirocker wrote: »
    He was literally Man Of The Match in that game.



    Seems to me like all the points and evidence provided aren't going to do much, as you've made up your mind.


    https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/ireland-wales-player-ratings-3-205710


    Anyway based on the reviews you have given Carty, he should be the starting 10 for Ireland :P Let's agree to disagree.


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    #8389
    Paul Smeenus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,424 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    https://www.the42.ie/paul-oconnell-coaching-ireland-5246949-Oct2020/

    Glad to hear him coming out and talking about this. It'd be nice if this decoupled the facile great player = great coach mentality that's so pervasive. Not too long ago people on here were posting about him coaching forwards in some sort of dream nostalgia ticket with ROG.


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    #8390
    WhoamI2022
    Closed Accounts Posts: 180 ✭✭WhoamI2022


    Paul Smeenus wrote: »
    https://www.the42.ie/paul-oconnell-coaching-ireland-5246949-Oct2020/

    Glad to hear him coming out and talking about this. It'd be nice if this decoupled the facile great player = great coach mentality that's so pervasive. Not too long ago people on here were posting about him coaching forwards in some sort of dream nostalgia ticket with ROG.


    Maybe keeping him involved with the U20 might make sense. With the TV work he is probably less concerned about making money from coaching


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    #8391
    siltirocker
    Registered Users Posts: 1,846 ✭✭✭siltirocker


    WhoamI2022 wrote: »
    https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/ireland-wales-player-ratings-3-205710

    I don't see the relevance of this. Joe.ie gave him a 7.5 rating and said "Nailed an early penalty to settle any nerves on his first start. Showed the sort of bravery and invention that Connacht fans will know all too well. Missed a conversion and penalty and put a little too much on a couple of kicks out of hand. His looped pass to Conway drifted forward so a try was ruled out."

    I don't see how it supports your point, or takes away from mine.
    WhoamI2022 wrote: »
    Anyway based on the reviews you have given Carty, he should be the starting 10 for Ireland

    Not at all. I simply posted in response to the claim that Carty hasn't done anything by posted very clear and detailed examples of how he has.
    WhoamI2022 wrote: »
    :P Let's agree to disagree.

    Fair enough.


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    #8392
    Paul Smeenus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,424 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    WhoamI2022 wrote: »
    Maybe keeping him involved with the U20 might make sense. With the TV work he is probably less concerned about making money from coaching

    Why on Earth would we keep him involved with U20s? Why not get a proper coach? The U20s didn't look very good when he was involved.


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    #8393
    WhoamI2022
    Closed Accounts Posts: 180 ✭✭WhoamI2022


    Paul Smeenus wrote: »
    Why on Earth would we keep him involved with U20s? Why not get a proper coach? The U20s didn't look very good when he was involved.


    I said involved, passing on his experience etc. Not necessary a coaching role. With the likes of POC and BOD we are losing huge experience to TV roles, maybe keeping them in as consultants just to pass on knowledge is not a bad thing. Everyone says POC has the ability to pick any lineout apart, do not lose that skill, pass it on


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    #8394
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Paul Smeenus wrote: »
    Why on Earth would we keep him involved with U20s? Why not get a proper coach? The U20s didn't look very good when he was involved.
    Dont think 20s being poor when he was involved was necessarily on O Connell. It wasnt a strong group.
    WhoamI2022 wrote: »
    I said involved, passing on his experience etc. Not necessary a coaching role. With the likes of POC and BOD we are losing huge experience to TV roles, maybe keeping them in as consultants just to pass on knowledge is not a bad thing. Everyone says POC has the ability to pick any lineout apart, do not lose that skill, pass it on
    POC may do that but he helped club/school teams on very casual basis last season.
    Dont see why we should keep them as consultants. They seem to be people who would gladly help out with anyone who asked so no need to have them as consultants


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    #8395
    WhoamI2022
    Closed Accounts Posts: 180 ✭✭WhoamI2022


    siltirocker wrote: »
    I don't see the relevance of this. Joe.ie gave him a 7.5 rating and said "Nailed an early penalty to settle any nerves on his first start. Showed the sort of bravery and invention that Connacht fans will know all too well. Missed a conversion and penalty and put a little too much on a couple of kicks out of hand. His looped pass to Conway drifted forward so a try was ruled out."

    I don't see how it supports your point, or takes away from mine.



    Not at all. I simply posted in response to the claim that Carty hasn't done anything by posted very clear and detailed examples of how he has.



    Fair enough.


    Four players got a higher rating to Carty. Another 4 got the same score. That's why I pointed to the Joe.ie website.

    Just look at the TV3 process for picking MOM, it goes to Quinlan and he picks a forward everytime. You could also get good odds on it been a Munster player if possible.


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    #8396
    Bazzo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    WhoamI2022 wrote: »
    Four players got a higher rating to Carty. Another 4 got the same score. That's why I pointed to the Joe.ie website.

    Just look at the TV3 process for picking MOM, it goes to Quinlan and he picks a forward everytime. You could also get good odds on it been a Munster player if possible.

    While joe.ie is the Cochrane review of player ratings.


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    #8397
    Paul Smeenus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,424 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    WhoamI2022 wrote: »
    I said involved, passing on his experience etc. Not necessary a coaching role. With the likes of POC and BOD we are losing huge experience to TV roles, maybe keeping them in as consultants just to pass on knowledge is not a bad thing. Everyone says POC has the ability to pick any lineout apart, do not lose that skill, pass it on

    Fair enough, but the sport moves on. You could 100% lose that skill as lineouts evolve. I also don't see what BOD would bring. Stephen Ferris was our best six of the modern era, I don't want him coaching our backrow. BOD is more articulate than Fez (not hard) - I don't take that to mean that he was as good as he was because of some tactical genius. None of them seem to be a fraction of the coach Felix Jone is.


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    #8398
    The Parish King
    Registered Users Posts: 168 ✭✭The Parish King


    Team announced for Les Frenchies;

    (15-9;1-8): Anthony Bouthier; Vincent Rattez, Virimi Vakatawa, Arthur Vincent, Gael Fickou; Romain Ntamack, Antoine Dupont; Cyril Baille, Julien Marchand, Mohamed Haouas; Bernard Le Roux, Paul Willemse; Francois Cros, Charles Ollivon (Capt), Gregory Alldritt.

    Replacements: Camille Chat, Jean-Baptiste Gros, Demba Bamba, Romain Taofifenua, Dylan Cretin, Baptiste Serin, Arthur Retiere, Thomas Ramos.

    Dangerous team, but for Ireland’s sake I’m glad to see Fickou on the wing rather than the centre - I think the more we can restrict his touches of the ball the better.


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    #8399
    kingofthekong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭kingofthekong


    Is Teddy Thomas out?....thats huge

    He nearly single handedly beat us in Paris last time


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    #8400
    swiwi_
    Registered Users Posts: 4,490 ✭✭✭swiwi_


    kingofthekong wrote: »
    Is Teddy Thomas out?....thats huge

    He nearly single handedly beat us in Paris last time

    The guy can’t defend to save himself. Great on attack, rubbish (lazy) on defence.


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    #8401
    OldRio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,962 ✭✭✭OldRio


    kingofthekong wrote: »
    Is Teddy Thomas out?....thats huge

    He nearly single handedly beat us in Paris last time

    He was very poor under the high ball against Wales.

    BUT then he scores a brilliant try.


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