Schools closed until February? (part 3)

meeeeh · 29-10-2020 10:54AM

Boggles wrote: »

The 14 day incidence rate in that region is well below 200.

You will have take that up with the poster who falsely claimed all though they knew, Germany were not closing schools.

The "tough" and "country-wide" measures are intended to limit contact as much as possible and stem the rapid spread of the virus, the chancellor said at a press conference, adding that schools and nurseries would remain open.

https://www.euronews.com/2020/10/28/germany-to-begin-partial-lockdown-from-november-2-says-angela-merkel

It's ok to accuse me of lying or whatever but are you calming Merkel is lying too about the measures in her own country? You are probably just arrogant enough to do that.

is_that_so · 29-10-2020 10:54AM

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

I wouldn't be celebrating our falling numbers yet considering our daily testing has dropped from 19k to 11k and the hse has all but admitted our contact tracing and testing is all but falling apart.

As a poster commented on the main thread they can only test what's referred to them and that contact tracing issue was one weekend only.

Boggles · 29-10-2020 10:55AM

meeeeh wrote: »

It's ok to accuse me of lying or whatever but are you calming Merkel is lying too?

I have accused no one of lying.

I made an observation on reality and backed it up with facts.

TBH, I don't think I can do much more, so best to leave it there.

meeeeh · 29-10-2020 10:57AM

Boggles wrote: »

I have accused no one of lying.

I made an observation on reality and backed it up with facts.

TBH, I don't think I can do much more, so best to leave it there.

So reality is that Merkel didn't say schools are staying open or did Merkel lie saying schools will stay open?

Edit: I just thought of this, maybe she doesn't know what is going on in the country. That must be it. You better email her to tell her your facts.

Boggles · 29-10-2020 11:09AM

is_that_so wrote: »

As a poster commented on the main thread they can only test what's referred to them and that contact tracing issue was one weekend only.

There has been issues for 3 weeks if you believe the public doctors who carry out the tracing.

wirelessdude01 · 29-10-2020 11:20AM

is_that_so wrote: »

As a poster commented on the main thread they can only test what's referred to them and that contact tracing issue was one weekend only.

From principal friends, the timelines with schools had been dragging out the two weeks prior to that weekend anyway. Schoos aware of cases and it taking 3/4 days for contact from the HSE or even calls/emails to be returned.

Huge issue was that schools didn't have a direct line of communication to the relevant public health team.

is_that_so · 29-10-2020 11:23AM

Boggles wrote: »

There has been issues for 3 weeks if you believe the public doctors who carry out the tracing.

If they've attached the names to that then yes it would be good to hear more about it but if it's this that's pretty much anonymous source.

wirelessdude01 · 29-10-2020 11:25AM

is_that_so wrote: »

If they've attached the names to that then yes it would be good to hear more about it but if it's this that's pretty much anonymous source.

Can't remember her name but there was one of the head people in the Midwest area was quite vocal on twitter. Laid out what was occurring due to being understaffed.

is_that_so · 29-10-2020 11:26AM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

From principal friends, the timelines with schools had been dragging out the two weeks prior to that weekend anyway. Schoos aware of cases and it taking 3/4 days for contact from the HSE or even calls/emails to be returned.

Huge issue was that schools didn't have a direct line of communication to the relevant public health team.

How is that the case? Surely there are teams assigned to localities or regions for liaison.

Boggles · 29-10-2020 11:29AM

is_that_so wrote: »

If they've attached the names to that then yes it would be good to hear more about it but if it's this that's pretty much anonymous source.

Not anonymous at all.

They have been raising the alarm for weeks on Twitter with their own accounts. NPHET last Thursday week confirmed as much.

But common sense would dictate you don't just get to a point where 2000 people are told do their own tracing, there is a lead up.

I am not aware of any substantial measures that have been put in to reinforce tracing, the HSE saying it would take at 8 weeks.

So I very much doubt the problem has gone away.

wirelessdude01 · 29-10-2020 11:30AM

is_that_so wrote: »

How is that the case? Surely there are teams assigned to localities or regions for liaison.

Surely you follow the news. This is only beginning to be put in place after the midterm.

29-10-2020 11:33AM

Boggles wrote: »

There has been issues for 3 weeks if you believe the public doctors who carry out the tracing.

In the 7 days to the 7th of October there were 11,500 call 3’s places by contact tracers, in the 7 days to yesterday there were 20,000. Yes the system broke, but there is still more people being traced today than there were 3 weeks ago

is_that_so · 29-10-2020 11:33AM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Surely you follow the news. This is only beginning to be put in place after the midterm.

On this not much anymore and only passing interest in schools. I get my numbers, keep up with research and look to dates when NPHET/government will actually make decisions.

Boggles · 29-10-2020 11:37AM

Deleted User wrote: »

In the 7 days to the 7th of October there were 11,500 call 3’s places by contact tracers, in the 7 days to yesterday there were 20,000. Yes the system broke, but there is still more people being traced today than there were 3 weeks ago

Like I said, I have no reason to disbelieve the actual public officials or NPHET.

They were sounding the alarm to the point that it manifested itself in complete break down.

I don't think any of us are in the position to second guess the people who are actually tasked with the tracing.

But it certainly won't stop people trying to I guess.

meeeeh · 29-10-2020 11:44AM

Hse were caught with their pants down because they didn't expect numbers to increase so dramatically and so quickly. Numbers are lower now so there should be less pressure on services.

irishblessing · 29-10-2020 11:51AM

SusanC10 wrote: »

Our 5th Class child has been wearing them since Day 1 in August. They are only 2 others in the Class doing so. Plus the Teacher.

Nearly the same here SusanC, my two older primary kids have been wearing them every day, no issues. There have been 2-3 others wearing them plus the teacher. Social distancing there is the usual story of "pods" but the distance is a very dubiously stated 1 meter when I asked back in Sept. The kids aren't always in their seats and are in each others faces out in the yard. It really stresses me out. And do I even need to mention again the unmasked parents in the carpark constantly having their chats. It's so upsetting honestly,

Anne1984 · 29-10-2020 11:54AM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

No I asked you a direct question where do people who don't have access to a car eat their lunch?

You do know we are going into winter. Students will have days/weeks where they aren't allowed outside for their breaks. Classrooms already taken, so again in your grand plan where do the teachers eat?

Teachers should in this case eat with the students they have just taught. There is no need for teachers to be a close contact of each other. They have no choice but to being close to other students so to minimise spread should sit with them instead of other teachers.

16 teachers at my local school were close contacts of each other and had to isolate. The school had to close. It makes no sense.

blanch152 · 29-10-2020 11:57AM

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1028/1174484-irish-schools-covid/

Essential reading for those in panic about schools.

"This week's data shows a positivity rate for testing in schools of 3%.

Only close contacts are being tested in schools.

The positivity rate for close contact testing in the community is 10%."

The virus is simply not spreading in schools.

History Queen · 29-10-2020 11:57AM

Anne1984 wrote: »

Teachers should in this case eat with the students they have just taught. There is no need for teachers to be a close contact of each other. They have no choice but to being close to other students so to minimise spread should sit with them instead of other teachers.

16 teachers at my local school were close contacts of each other and had to isolate. The school had to close. It makes no sense.

So teachers should continue to work during their break and supervise students. When do they get an actual break?

irishblessing · 29-10-2020 11:58AM

Deleted User wrote: »

In the 7 days to the 7th of October there were 11,500 call 3’s places by contact tracers, in the 7 days to yesterday there were 20,000. Yes the system broke, but there is still more people being traced today than there were 3 weeks ago

But are there more people being traced in the schools is the question. The definition of what is considered a close contact has changed, and so there are absolutely loads of people not being tested or traced. Some despite sharing a room or even pod for more than 5 hours with no masks. Some not tested because although they sat next to them for hours in a classroom breathing the same air, as long as they didn't eat lunch together its fine. The SNA is fine and so is the teacher. It's ridiculous.

Boggles · 29-10-2020 11:59AM

blanch152 wrote: »

The virus is simply not spreading in schools.

Yep. No real recorded instances of someone transmitting or catching the virus indoors in a population of 1 million people.

Maybe 1 or 2, maybe, they are not really sure.

It's an early Christmas miracle.

irishblessing · 29-10-2020 12:00PM

blanch152 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1028/1174484-irish-schools-covid/

Essential reading for those in panic about schools.

"This week's data shows a positivity rate for testing in schools of 3%.

Only close contacts are being tested in schools.

The positivity rate for close contact testing in the community is 10%."

The virus is simply not spreading in schools.

There is a huge issue with how they change the definition of "close contact." That skews the data one way.

And yet in the next article link under this one, same reporter:

Comparing the positivity rate in schools with the close contacts rate in the community certainly makes more sense. But just how valid a comparison is even that?

The national positivity rate, which is regularly updated on gov.ie, refers to the rate over the past seven days.

It’s unclear as yet whether the 10% close contacts positivity rate quoted by the HSE is a seven-day figure or not. The positivity rate for schools is not a seven-day figure. It is an aggregate figure that refers to all testing carried out in schools since they reopened in September.

The picture around schools is blurred. Interrogation of the data yields answers, but every answer seems to raise even more questions.

The public is hungry for information on Covid-19 in schools. Information aids understanding, and knowledge can reassure.

The HSE is working to provide more data on schools and more statistics are forthcoming, but slowly.

For a clear picture of what is happening in schools we need more data and more context, and we have a way to go yet.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1028/1174434-school-positivity-rates/

The virus is spreading in schools, as evidenced by even the HSE. What a ridiculous claim, you can't be taken seriously.

Hotblack Desiato · 29-10-2020 12:08PM

Typical hit-n-run post, but let's go with it:

facehugger99 wrote: »

The country borrowing a billion a month to keep the lights on and the teachers decide to try and use the virus to squeeze a pay-rise - it's really despicable behaviour.

It's pay restoration (not a pay rise) and only for the youngest, most badly paid teachers.

They (along with all of the rest of the public sector) are falsely accused of throwing new recruits under the bus ten years ago, if they abandoned that claim now they would be accused of selfishness.

Can't win.

On-topic - there was a coronavirus case with a pupil in my son's school, we weren't told for a week and then we were told that according to the HSE kids spending all day in the same classroom or even in the same 'pod' as him were not close contacts. It's a joke.

mirrorwall14 · 29-10-2020 12:08PM

Anne1984 wrote: »

Teachers should in this case eat with the students they have just taught. There is no need for teachers to be a close contact of each other. They have no choice but to being close to other students so to minimise spread should sit with them instead of other teachers.

16 teachers at my local school were close contacts of each other and had to isolate. The school had to close. It makes no sense.

How do you know they were close contacts of each other?

meeeeh · 29-10-2020 12:09PM

https://www.ft.com/content/4842aab1-7cc8-4973-b98a-03edf1eeae54

The German studies include an analysis published last week by the Institute of Labour Economics (ILE) in Bonn that found the number of new cases in the country had not increased when schools were reopened following the summer breaks.

Ingo Isphording, Marc Lipfert and Nico Pestel, the authors of the report, found the number of newly confirmed cases actually decreased gradually in German states that reopened schools, compared with those that did not. “This result certainly ran counter [to our expectations],” said Mr Isphording.

Germany has seen a steep rise in new infections in recent weeks but a survey of the education ministries in Germany’s 16 states by RND, a German media group, concluded there was no evidence that schools had become superspreaders.

Boggles · 29-10-2020 12:10PM

Mass testing for Covid-19 has taken place in an additional 117 schools over the past week, according to the latest data from the HSE this evening.

There have been 2,795 student and staff tests and 81 new cases of the virus have been detected

That's 24 people per school?

Does that count as mass testing?

When we mass test care homes and meat plants, everyone gets tested.

In the past week we have tested 0.28% of the school population.

I can't see anyone with a straight facing saying publicly that fits the definition of mass testing.

I suppose it is one of the reasons when the lady that has replaced Glynn gets asked a question about schools, she immediately goes to her page and just reads.

She always has that page open too.

SusanC10 · 29-10-2020 12:10PM

irishblessing wrote: »

Nearly the same here SusanC, my two older primary kids have been wearing them every day, no issues. There have been 2-3 others wearing them plus the teacher. Social distancing there is the usual story of "pods" but the distance is a very dubiously stated 1 meter when I asked back in Sept. The kids aren't always in their seats and are in each others faces out in the yard. It really stresses me out. And do I even need to mention again the unmasked parents in the carpark constantly having their chats. It's so upsetting honestly,

The Carpark annoys me too. There are limited spaces for Parents so I get there early at pick-up time. I can see the door of the school from my spot and normally our daughter can see my car from the door. So the most I do is open the car door and wave but mostly I don't even get out of the car.
Most other Parents are milling around having the chats. Some even hop into the passenger seats of other cars. Drives me mad.
I am past caring if the other Mums (and it is mostly Mums) think that I am anti-social.

irishblessing · 29-10-2020 12:38PM

SusanC10 wrote: »

The Carpark annoys me too. There are limited spaces for Parents so I get there early at pick-up time. I can see the door of the school from my spot and normally our daughter can see my car from the door. So the most I do is open the car door and wave but mostly I don't even get out of the car.
Most other Parents are milling around having the chats. Some even hop into the passenger seats of other cars. Drives me mad.
I am past caring if the other Mums (and it is mostly Mums) think that I am anti-social.

I've seen the hop in the cars move as well, couldn't let a rain shower get in the way of the gossip. :rolleyes:

Imagine thinking anyone being cautious in a global pandemic is being anti-social!!

JimmyVik · 29-10-2020 12:40PM

In the local school there was a kid with a cold there from Monday to Friday last week.
They got worse on Friday with a temperature and a cough and got sent home.
They got tested for Covid and it was positive.

So, if a child with the virus, was sitting in a room with 26 other children and a teacher all week , and all 27 of these people go home every day to their families and assuming some of these have been walking around with the virus.
If it is subsequently discovered that one or more of these people did have the virus without symptoms and gave it to their parents at home, who only found out they had it the next week, is it classed as a school outbreak or a home outbreak. There are potentially 27 houses susceptible to this from one classroom right?

As far as I know nobody else has been tested from that classroom or considered a close contact. But of course people arent told this anyway.

Str8outtaWuhan · 29-10-2020 12:40PM

blanch152 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1028/1174484-irish-schools-covid/

Essential reading for those in panic about schools.

"This week's data shows a positivity rate for testing in schools of 3%.

Only close contacts are being tested in schools.

The positivity rate for close contact testing in the community is 10%."

The virus is simply not spreading in schools.

Except the definition of a close contact in the community is closer than 2m for 15 mins no mask, in schools its <1m for infinite time with no mask

Schools closed until February? (part 3)

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