Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

IAMAMORON · 27-10-2020 11:00PM

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

The majority?

The surveys I have seen ask pretty soft, non commital leading questions.

I'd like to see a survey with

- To what extent would you agree with the statement "the government, individual medics, sections of the legal/ health authorities, and/ or the media, have at the very least exaggerated or misrepresented the threat of Covid to the general population and have been less than forthcoming with clear and concise statistics relating to deaths of relatively healthy individuls, the percentage of long term illnesses among people affected, and other relevant details"

I certainly think it has enabled certain mantras and governing during a crisis does allow a certain degree of acute focus on the crisis whilst not having to deal with other pertinent issues. While the inferno is burning everyone has to concentrate on putting it out. The media are also having a right old time of things, bad news travels fast. They know fine well that doom and panic sell well, just ask George Lee, the godfather of doom and dispair. I would not dream of criticizing frontline healthcare workers, but I reckon the faffing around amongst the pen pushers of the HSE is only comical. I mean the statistics have been a joke from the start, that is not the government's fault, but it is indicative of the failures of the Irish health system, from an administrative angle.

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

- the government has used the Covid period to enact unpopular measures that have little relationship to the pandemic but are being packaged as designed to respond to it

This is not happening and i assume you are being sarcastic. Anyone dreaming such theories up are looking to stir shight. I wouldn't be giving the coalition that much credit, no one is as ever as cute as they would seem to be, any government is no different.

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

I think we would be well into majority agreement with these two. On the second point the government has used the issue to attempt to force through 30kph restrictions in Dublin, minimum alcohol pricing, and attempting to break the traditional make up of the Irish pub experience by making it more continental with food and table service.

This sounds like garbage. As i said earlier, the government are not that cute, neither are their policy strategists'. Anyone thinking there is some sort of twisted little secret going on is bonkers and needs to check themselves in.

vojiwox · 27-10-2020 11:03PM

Hunky Monster wrote: »

The Ukraine is the only country in Europe with a worse health system.

what numbers were you using ?

Neowise · 27-10-2020 11:41PM

mountgomery burns wrote: »

There's 18/31 below that average though, and about 9 others at a similar level to ourselves with a 10th (Portugal) significantly worse.

That means we are comparable to a third of Europe in terms of ICU capacity. It's bad and not where we should be, but we're not some massive outlier according to that metric as is often portrayed.

I get that's not what you're saying just to be clear but often it's an argument in favour of our lengthy restrictions.

The graph does not take into consideration that the number changes dynamically.

6.2 per 100k = 322 ICU beds.

On sept 30th

Pre-Covid capacity: 225
Temporary surge capacity: 354
Current permanent capacity: 280
Capacity after Winter Plan funding: 297

There were 41 of current 280 full-staffed beds available yesterday.

Staffing ICU beds is expensive, and having 100's of fully staffed not in use ICU beds would be a humongous waste of money. When more was needed in March/April, they got and staffed more, I have read that there was capacity for 411 at one stage, I'll link source.

Why has 322 been used in the graph, i don't know, but saying that we don't have lots of people in an ICU bed is a good thing, not a bad thing.

If you have a low number of fully staffed ICU beds, then that usually means that you have less critically ill patients.

Its not a metric I would jump to anyhow, to measure how good a countires healthcare system is.

https://www.thejournal.ie/icu-bed-numbers-5217685-Sep2020/

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ireland-s-icu-facilities-can-deal-with-just-411-patients-warn-critical-care-specialists-1.4232655

Suckit · 28-10-2020 01:43AM

Geuze wrote: »

Over twenty years of going to pubs and noticing trends tells me this will not happen.

Price- based competition in Ireland is very rare.

The dominance of a few brewers, and the publicans cartel prevents it.

Normally I would agree, but things are very different now.
I guess there are a few things to take into consideration, and the pub competition in my town will be very different than it has been in the past.
Right now, there are 5 trust bars operating within a 1 mile radius that I know of (and I am willing to bet that there are many more).
Where I live has very much a fixed pricing and way above what it should be. One pub took them on a few years ago and was shut down.
People have often voiced about opening up some sort of trust bar etc. but there was never enough motivation.
The 'main' local is very dominant, and attracts people from outside the town, that will continue etc.
But I reckon the quieter nights, the Champions League/Europa League for example in the middle of winter will lose a lot of customers.
It'll be interesting to see. Nothing illegal going on, maybe a few covid regulations being bent, but not abused and not at all for the most of level 5 afaik.
I am fairly confident that one pub (owned and paid for a century ago, so no mortgage etc.) will lower the prices where I live, against the grain of the other two, but they were already contemplating that before lockdown. So I guess it also comes down to where you live.
But if I owned a pub and when things opened back up, and quietened down again, I would be pricing as competitively as possible, particularly if I wasn't the best performing pub in the area but offered the same amenities.
Also if I was losing customers during the quieter nights on top of that.

I think (as mentioned) it will be interesting to see.

PTH2009 · 28-10-2020 02:53AM

Suckit wrote: »

Normally I would agree, but things are very different now.
I guess there are a few things to take into consideration, and the pub competition in my town will be very different than it has been in the past.
Right now, there are 5 trust bars operating within a 1 mile radius that I know of (and I am willing to bet that there are many more).
Where I live has very much a fixed pricing and way above what it should be. One pub took them on a few years ago and was shut down.
People have often voiced about opening up some sort of trust bar etc. but there was never enough motivation.
The 'main' local is very dominant, and attracts people from outside the town, that will continue etc.
But I reckon the quieter nights, the Champions League/Europa League for example in the middle of winter will lose a lot of customers.
It'll be interesting to see. Nothing illegal going on, maybe a few covid regulations being bent, but not abused and not at all for the most of level 5 afaik.
I am fairly confident that one pub (owned and paid for a century ago, so no mortgage etc.) will lower the prices where I live, against the grain of the other two, but they were already contemplating that before lockdown. So I guess it also comes down to where you live.
But if I owned a pub and when things opened back up, and quietened down again, I would be pricing as competitively as possible, particularly if I wasn't the best performing pub in the area but offered the same amenities.
Also if I was losing customers during the quieter nights on top of that.

I think (as mentioned) it will be interesting to see.

Whats a trust bar ?

thesandeman · 28-10-2020 03:10AM

PTH2009 wrote: »

Whats a trust bar ?

Shebeen.

Drifter50 · 28-10-2020 09:02AM

The booking system is probably here to stay for the foreseeable future even when they open back up. This unfortunately makes it very unrealistic for a pub to accept a single person booking for a table and it seems drinking at the bar is over
Again its the future of the so called wet pubs and its very disappointing for a lot of ordinary people

weldoninhio · 28-10-2020 09:16AM

Xenji wrote: »

600 people in attendance for it, not what I would call a full crowd as attendance is capped at 15% currently at non league grounds.

Average attendance last season was 259. I'd say a crowd of 600 compared to that is fairly full.

El_Duderino 09 · 28-10-2020 02:03PM

Open the Pubs wrote: »

That's a pretty arrogant reply from someone who didn't even watch it. I know what level it was at and there was full crowds. Look it up.

Yes definitely it was Bishops Stortford Vs At Albans, there was a pretty full crowd and there was no distancing. A lot of the fans were drinking pints in plastic glasses.

No, it's not an arrogant reply. I looked up the FA page on the FA cup and rules on allowing fans into venues for FA Cup games.

"Where an elite club is playing another elite club, the match must be played behind closed doors (i.e. with no spectators permitted to be in attendance)
• Where an elite club is playing a non-elite club:
o Where the match is played at the elite club’s ground, the match must be played behind closed doors (i.e. with no spectators permitted to be in attendance)
o Where the match is played at the non-elite club’s ground, spectators of the home club only shall be permitted to attend the match in accordance with the latest applicable National League System Spectator Guidance.
Both clubs shall ensure that spectators of the visiting club are not in attendance at the match.
• Where a non-elite club is playing another non-elite club, spectators (of both the home and visiting clubs) shall be permitted to attend the match in accordance with the latest applicable National League System Spectator Guidance."

So yeah, what i said.

But that shows where we are with these things. Actually being informed on the issue is to show "arrogance". Classic Open the Pubs behaviour

When you said "full crowd at the game and lads drinking pints" were you being deceitful of just misinformed?

MrStuffins · 28-10-2020 02:19PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Average attendance last season was 259. I'd say a crowd of 600 compared to that is fairly full.

Full: containing or holding as much or as many as possible; having no empty space.

Xenji wrote: »

the maximum capacity at Woodside Park where the match was played is 4,525

Capacity: the maximum amount that something can contain.

Not sure I need to worry about your house parties considering you think 13% of capacity is "full".

Suckit · 28-10-2020 05:44PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

Whats a trust bar ?

Shebeen, but no profit, and nobody manning it.
Keg/alcohol is bought with the money from the bar, i.e. everyone chips in for initial stock. then pay for what you drink. Roughly €2.50 per pint of Guinness depending on how it's run.
€200 - €230 for keg / 88 pints in keg
Spirits/nuts/crisps etc. all paid for the same way.

Coillte_Bhoy · 28-10-2020 07:27PM

Drifter50 wrote: »

The booking system is probably here to stay for the foreseeable future even when they open back up. This unfortunately makes it very unrealistic for a pub to accept a single person booking for a table and it seems drinking at the bar is over
Again its the future of the so called wet pubs and its very disappointing for a lot of ordinary people

Couple of bars i know had the bar are covered with Perspex and stools with a small ledge/shelf were available at the bar but you couldnt order at the bar, had to be off floor staff. Handy.

vojiwox · 28-10-2020 07:36PM

Suckit wrote: »

Shebeen, but no profit, and nobody manning it.
Keg/alcohol is bought with the money from the bar, i.e. everyone chips in for initial stock. then pay for what you drink. Roughly €2.50 per pint of Guinness depending on how it's run.
€200 - €230 for keg / 88 pints in keg
Spirits/nuts/crisps etc. all paid for the same way.

A shebeen and it's not illegal? Or maybe I misunderstood your previous post.

HBC08 · 28-10-2020 07:50PM

Suckit wrote: »

Shebeen, but no profit, and nobody manning it.
Keg/alcohol is bought with the money from the bar, i.e. everyone chips in for initial stock. then pay for what you drink. Roughly €2.50 per pint of Guinness depending on how it's run.
€200 - €230 for keg / 88 pints in keg
Spirits/nuts/crisps etc. all paid for the same way.

Interesting, is it legal?

IAMAMORON · 28-10-2020 08:00PM

I don't think there is anything illegal under normal conditions having a drinking club / shebeen.

I doubt you would get any brownie points from the outragers either.

I know of a few going on. I don't see the issue tbh. Most of the drinkers frequenting are regulars.

28-10-2020 08:02PM

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I don't think there is anything illegal under normal conditions having a drinking club / shebeen.

I doubt you would get any brownie points from the outragers either.

I know of a few going on. I don't see the issue tbh. Most of the drinkers frequenting are regulars.

Another cause of hugely multiplying the amount of people indirectly contacting each other that wouldn’t normally. No point dressing it up, it’s the act of scumbags.

PTH2009 · 28-10-2020 08:17PM

a small positive from no pubs in December is none of the antics of the 'once a year drinkers'.

virginmediapls · 28-10-2020 08:25PM

No gowls going around in Santy hats and Christmas jumpers, thinking they are the first people in the world to memorize the chorus of "Sweet Caroline" also.

Good news for everyones mental health.

Eric Cartman · 28-10-2020 08:39PM

virginmediapls wrote: »

No gowls going around in Santy hats and Christmas jumpers, thinking they are the first people in the world to memorize the chorus of "Sweet Caroline" also.

Good news for everyones mental health.

While I despise not being able to have my usual Christmas Eve skinfull of pints and spending most of December weekends partying, the above has made me realise that I won't have to see any of the swathes of people I despise clogging up the bar who wouldn't usually be there. Even if the 'food pubs' come back, it'll be table service so able to spend more time with people I do like rather than standing behind the great unwashed in Christmas jumpers queuing up to individually order 10 drinks separately instead of just one or two getting a round in to the table

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 28-10-2020 08:46PM

I don't think you've to worry about anything, the pubs will be closed for Christmas.

Suckit · 28-10-2020 08:59PM

vojiwox wrote: »

A shebeen and it's not illegal? Or maybe I misunderstood your previous post.

HBC08 wrote: »

Interesting, is it legal?

Shebeen is the best way to describe it. But it isn't a shebeen, I just used the description somebody had used above.
No money changes hands, no profit is being made, no charges etc.
You buy your own alcohol from a legit source it is then put behind the 'bar' area.
I am not in any way involved with them or the law.
It was described to me as being legal (as long as covid regulations are adhered to) and I didn't question it.
It is not a free-for-all. Nobody could just walk in with an invite or word of mouth/vouched for, and start drinking and paying for pints etc.

PTH2009 · 28-10-2020 09:06PM

Hunky Monster wrote: »

I don't think you've to worry about anything, the pubs will be closed for Christmas.

Yeah definitely

Meanwhile they will be all open all over the UK/Europe

The lads in NPHET too scared to open them up as it will spread the virus. **** off ye twits. No doubt they will have there xmas piss up still and get a few weeks holidays too

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 28-10-2020 09:17PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

Yeah definitely

Meanwhile they will be all open all over the UK/Europe

The lads in NPHET too scared to open them up as it will spread the virus. **** off ye twits. No doubt they will have there xmas piss up still and get a few weeks holidays too

A lot of people have said it to me in conversation about being delighted the pubs will be open for Christmas, I'm wondering do they live on the same planet as me... they won't. They'll put us back on level 3 with closed pubs, the shops can make their Christmas money and we'll all be delighted we're allowed to go home for Christmas.

PTH2009 · 28-10-2020 09:28PM

Hunky Monster wrote: »

A lot of people have said it to me in conversation about being delighted the pubs will be open for Christmas, I'm wondering do they live on the same planet as me... they won't. They'll put us back on level 3 with closed pubs, the shops can make their Christmas money and we'll all be delighted we're allowed to go home for Christmas.

Back to outdoors drinks in fecking December

I know it won't happen but the government should look at this rule in level 3 and maybe let pubs open indoors with a limit number of people. It will be ****ing impossible to get a drink anywhere with this 15 max outdoor

MrStuffins · 28-10-2020 09:47PM

There is absolutely no doubt that pubs being open "as normal" at Christmas would contribute to the spread of Covid.

It would be as close to 100% certainty as possible.

Coillte_Bhoy · 28-10-2020 10:02PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

Yeah definitely

Meanwhile they will be all open all over the UK/Europe

The lads in NPHET too scared to open them up as it will spread the virus. **** off ye twits. No doubt they will have there xmas piss up still and get a few weeks holidays too

So will you come back afer Xmas and tell us about the NPHET piss up and outline the what exactly you are talking about re holidays? No, dont suppose you will, twit indeed

PTH2009 · 28-10-2020 10:07PM

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

So will you come back afer Xmas and tell us about the NPHET piss up and outline the what exactly you are talking about re holidays? No, dont suppose you will, twit indeed

no way will they be doing there meetings/conferences christmas/New years weeks

Dickie10 · 28-10-2020 10:39PM

not a hope pubs will open during or before xmas. i just cant shrug off this feeling that NYPHET are really gleeful at getting a swipe at the alcohol/pub/nightclub industry for years of causing them hardship in A&Es. the gardai are prob delighted too, it must be unbelievable on saturday nights compared with normal times. Im going to start a thread on another section on the differeces between british isles and european socialiscing /nights out and general drinking culture i just cant believe its that different in europe when you see some immigrants and thier antics in drinking stakes in this country. what exactly do the likes of NYPHET want to do with future alchol/pub culture, what is thier vision?

Jinglejangle69 · 28-10-2020 10:41PM

Dickie10 wrote: »

not a hope pubs will open during or before xmas. i just cant shrug off this feeling that NYPHET are really gleeful at getting a swipe at the alcohol/pub/nightclub industry for years of causing them hardship in A&Es. the gardai are prob delighted too, it must be unbelievable on saturday nights compared with normal times. Im going to start a thread on another section on the differeces between british isles and european socialiscing /nights out and general drinking culture i just cant believe its that different in europe when you see some immigrants and thier antics in drinking stakes in this country. what exactly do the likes of NYPHET want to do with future alchol/pub culture, what is thier vision?

Oh dear.

El_Duderino 09 · 28-10-2020 11:42PM

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I don't think there is anything illegal under normal conditions having a drinking club / shebeen.

I doubt you would get any brownie points from the outragers either.

I know of a few going on. I don't see the issue tbh. Most of the drinkers frequenting are regulars.

So it’s effectively a type of house party and you’ve no problem with it? It’s unlikely to be popular with the pro-pub/anti-house party people but fair enough.

Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

Comments