Schools closed until February? (part 3)

is_that_so · 28-10-2020 01:05PM

khalessi wrote: »

I dont get how the fact no one wants schools closed is consistently ignored by you.

Not you but there are plenty of those too! There's always a middle way that doesn't bow to the extremes.

meeeeh · 28-10-2020 01:06PM

khalessi wrote: »

I dont get how the fact no one wants schools closed is consistently ignored by you.

Why constant questioning then when numbers are going down. It seems to me very much like wishful thinking. Nobody posts great the numbers seem to be leveling off so schools should come back because since we were able to keep them open at higher numbers we will be able to keep them open at lower numbers.

AlphaDelta1 · 28-10-2020 01:07PM

I have to say i am worried the keep the schools open at all costs approach may cost us in the coming weeks. I don't see why we can't keep the kids out until say mid November and give us a chance to get the numbers way down. They can always keep them in school a bit longer next summer to make up the time by when we'll more than likely have a widespread vaccine.

khalessi · 28-10-2020 01:08PM

meeeeh wrote: »

Why constant questioning then when numbers are going down. It seems to me very much like wishful thinking. Nobody posts great the numbers seem to be leveling off so schools should come back because since we were able to keep them open at higher numbers we will be able to keep them open at lower numbers.

Everyone posts they dont want schools closed, surely thats a hint they dont want schools closed.

joe40 · 28-10-2020 01:11PM

AlphaDelta1 wrote: »

I have to say i am worried the keep the schools open at all costs approach may cost us in the coming weeks. I don't see why we can't keep the kids out until say mid November and give us a chance to get the numbers way down. They can always keep them in school a bit longer next summer to make up the time by when we'll more than likely have a widespread vaccine.

I don't think a widespread vaccine by next summer is likely at all.
Keeping kids off for a few weeks now would be fine if there was going to be no further issues in the new year.
I just don't think that will be the case

meeeeh · 28-10-2020 01:13PM

SusanC10 wrote: »

I am not wishful thinking for higher numbers or school closures.
I am just trying to be realistic about what will happen. Schools are closing in various European Countries already and moving online.

And numbers in those countries are significantly higher. The answer is to react to numbers in own country not to what for example Czechia, Belgium or Slovenia (2600 cases yesterday and increasing, test positivity rate 30%, 2 mil population) are doing. Compare the numbers I quoted above to Ireland and tell me why it makes sense to close schools at between 1000 to 700 cases, positivity rate well under 10% and population more than twice the size of Sloveninan example above.

If anyone remembers spring many countries dealt with Covid much better than Ireland and reopened much quicker. At the moment we seem to be in the good group.

meeeeh · 28-10-2020 01:16PM

AlphaDelta1 wrote: »

I have to say i am worried the keep the schools open at all costs approach may cost us in the coming weeks. I don't see why we can't keep the kids out until say mid November and give us a chance to get the numbers way down. They can always keep them in school a bit longer next summer to make up the time by when we'll more than likely have a widespread vaccine.

The vaccine thing is wishful thinking, there are absolutely no guarantees it will be available to enough people, that take up will be good enough or that immunity will be long enough.

8k71ps · 28-10-2020 01:24PM

meeeeh wrote: »

And numbers in those countries are significantly higher. The answer is to react to numbers in own country not to what for example Czechia, Belgium or Slovenia (2600 cases yesterday and increasing, test positivity rate 30%, 2 mil population) are doing. Compare the numbers I quoted above to Ireland and tell me why it makes sense to close schools at between 1000 to 700 cases, positivity rate well under 10% and population more than twice the size of Sloveninan example above.

If anyone remembers spring many countries dealt with Covid much better than Ireland and reopened much quicker. At the moment we seem to be in the good group.

Do schools only spread when it's endemic in the community or is it a spreader itself? If it's a spreader in and of itself we should see quite a bottom or a slow decelerating decrease pretty quickly. We should also maybe see an increase as the schools reopen due to increased referencing for testing for students etc (the main reason the cases are down is a large decrease in 15-24 and a decrease in growth between 4-15), which is far more likely a case of them not being tested than it going away if that's the case.

is_that_so · 28-10-2020 01:26PM

meeeeh wrote: »

The vaccine thing is wishful thinking, there are absolutely no guarantees it will be available to enough people, that take up will be good enough or that immunity will be long enough.

I think you can discount the risk of low take up, there'll be a stampede for it, once we've been through Lockdown number 25!

wirelessdude01 · 28-10-2020 01:32PM

SusanC10 wrote: »

I am not wishful thinking for higher numbers or school closures.
I am just trying to be realistic about what will happen. Schools are closing in various European Countries already and moving online.

It's called planning and possibly being realistic. Something that some on here don't seem to want to acknowledge might actually be prudent.

Blondini · 28-10-2020 02:26PM

khalessi wrote: »

Everyone posts they dont want schools closed, surely thats a hint they dont want schools closed.

Exactly. I don't know one teacher here, or in real life, who want schools closed. It's the default lazy argument to say otherwise.

We want proper risk mitigation and equality with the rest of the societal Covid restrictions. That's all.

wirelessdude01 · 28-10-2020 02:28PM

Blondini wrote: »

Exactly. I don't know one teacher here, or in real life, who want schools closed. It's the default lazy argument to say otherwise.

We want proper risk mitigation and equality with the rest of the societal Covid restrictions. That's all.

Wanting that though makes us even worse, it makes us both lazy AND entitled!!

History Queen · 28-10-2020 02:31PM

Maybe it would be helpful if those arguing against teachers could explain what exactly their opposition to increased testing as well as contact tracing in schools is?

MerlinSouthDub · 28-10-2020 02:31PM

We are in a good position in Ireland. Stable (falling) numbers with schools open. I'm surprised there is not more positivity on this thread (and the main thread, for that matter). Other countries in Europe have much higher infection rates than us and have left it late to take action. We have acted early and seem to be suppressing the virus again. With schools open!

khalessi · 28-10-2020 02:34PM

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

We are in a good position in Ireland. Stable (falling) numbers with schools open. I'm surprised there is not more positivity on this thread (and the main thread, for that matter). Other countries in Europe have much higher infection rates than us and have left it late to take action. We have acted early and seem to be suppressing the virus again. With schools open!

Yet again, someone ignoring that no one wants schools closed. What is requested is transparency, proper testing and tracing and a proper definition of what is a close contact in a classroom and an honest reporting on schools instead of the "all is fine nothing to see here approach.

Blondini · 28-10-2020 02:36PM

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

We are in a good position in Ireland. Stable (falling) numbers with schools open. I'm surprised there is not more positivity on this thread (and the main thread, for that matter). Other countries in Europe have much higher infection rates than us and have left it late to take action. We have acted early and seem to be suppressing the virus again. With schools open!

Yes, they're open, and hopefully staying open.

I'm confused as to why this keeps being repeated.

MerlinSouthDub · 28-10-2020 02:37PM

khalessi wrote: »

Yet again, someone ignoring that no one wants schools closed. What is requested is transparency, proper testing and tracing and a proper definition of what is a close contact in a classroom and an honest reporting on schools instead of the "all is fine nothing to see here approach.

I've no issue with increasing testing in schools. But the fact is schools being open is not causing the rapid uncontrolled spread of the virus that some seem to be fear. Reading this thread, you would think that every classroom is a hotbed of infection. The measures we currently have in place are suppressing the virus.

Smacruairi · 28-10-2020 02:48PM

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

I've no issue with increasing testing in schools. But the fact is schools being open is not causing the rapid uncontrolled spread of the virus that some seem to be fear. Reading this thread, you would think that every classroom is a hotbed of infection. The measures we currently have in place are suppressing the virus.

Measures are inappropriate - the guidelines were drafted when the govt thought that droplets were the main spreader of the virus. They quietly amended the document after its publication but with no changes to procedures

Govt didn't advise mandatory masks (like the way it is for all retail shops which have far greater distancing) when it drafted its guidelines.

Govt assured us that contact tracing would be exemplary with quick turn around. They collapsed last week.

Govt gave precise updates on nursing homes and meat factories with regards to outbreaks. It's up to a Facebook group to keep track of that data as no one seems able to show how the dept is tracking the data.

All this group is doing is pointing out the massive hypocrisies in how someone is defined as a close contact, how measures are implemented, and how the govt deals in data. No one is calling for schools to be closed, rather that sensible measures in line with those on other workplace are taken to protect students abd staff, and by extension, the community.

The graph shows a massive increase. Dublin has had lockdowns measures for over a month now. Several counties similar measures. We have not seen any peak yet, despite several people guessing we have, each week.

History Queen · 28-10-2020 02:50PM

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

I've no issue with increasing testing in schools. But the fact is schools being open is not causing the rapid uncontrolled spread of the virus that some seem to be fear. Reading this thread, you would think that every classroom is a hotbed of infection. The measures we currently have in place are suppressing the virus.

Well if we had the same contact tracing and testing afforded to schools as to wider society, we could prove if this is the case or not.

MerlinSouthDub · 28-10-2020 02:54PM

History Queen wrote: »

Well if we had the same contact tracing and testing afforded to schools as to wider society, we could prove if this is the case or not.

It is proven - cases are falling, schools are open.

khalessi · 28-10-2020 02:56PM

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

It is proven - cases are falling, schools are open.

Interesting your buddy raind just pointed out numbers increasing iin 5-14 year olds on other thread and well done schools are open but are being treated differently re close contact status and testing to other sectors

History Queen · 28-10-2020 02:57PM

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

It is proven - cases are falling, schools are open.

Give it over.

wirelessdude01 · 28-10-2020 03:04PM

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

It is proven - cases are falling, schools are open.

So does that mean we can call off the recruitment drive for testers and tracers? No need for any measures anymore.

8k71ps · 28-10-2020 03:09PM

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

It is proven - cases are falling, schools are open.

Here lads we might as well give up with this whole test and trace thing, sure the cases are going down there's no point

MerlinSouthDub · 28-10-2020 03:13PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

So does that mean we can call off the recruitment drive for testers and tracers? No need for any measures anymore.

Didn't suggest that at all. We clearly need more tracers to make sure we have contingency in the system. I'm just glad that the current data is telling us that level 3 restrictions are enough to keep virus numbers under control, and allow the schools to stay open. We did not have that data until the last couple of weeks. We can now have more confidence in our approach, and any further actions that can be taken to improve matters should be taken. But it looks like we have a strong base to work off, and we are in a much better place that nearly every country in Europe.

wirelessdude01 · 28-10-2020 03:21PM

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

Didn't suggest that at all. We clearly need more tracers to make sure we have contingency in the system. I'm just glad that the current data is telling us that level 3 restrictions are enough to keep virus numbers under control, and allow the schools to stay open. We did not have that data until the last couple of weeks. We can now have more confidence in our approach, and any further actions that can be taken to improve matters should be taken. But it looks like we have a strong base to work off, and we are in a much better place that nearly every country in Europe.

So then if that is the case there is also no need for all these new public health teams they claim to be putting in place to deal with issues in schools. If no issues then no need.

blanch152 · 28-10-2020 03:25PM

khalessi wrote: »

Yet again, someone ignoring that no one wants schools closed. What is requested is transparency, proper testing and tracing and a proper definition of what is a close contact in a classroom and an honest reporting on schools instead of the "all is fine nothing to see here approach.

Again, why prioritise testing resources on schools when the positivity rate in schools is so low? Either we are testing the wrong people in schools or we are testing too many.

The evidence suggests that the virus is not spreading in school settings. It is spreading in more uncontrolled environments. That is where the public health focus should be.

wirelessdude01 · 28-10-2020 03:27PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Again, why prioritise testing resources on schools when the positivity rate in schools is so low? Either we are testing the wrong people in schools or we are testing too many.

The evidence suggests that the virus is not spreading in school settings. It is spreading in more uncontrolled environments. That is where the public health focus should be.

Conditions in schools will be changing now. Less time outside. Also I can guess that there will also be less ventilation in alot of classrooms as the weather gets colder and wetter.
There is a reason why they are assigning dedicated public health teams in all the region's with responsibility for schools.

irishblessing · 28-10-2020 03:41PM

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

Didn't suggest that at all. We clearly need more tracers to make sure we have contingency in the system. I'm just glad that the current data is telling us that level 3 restrictions are enough to keep virus numbers under control, and allow the schools to stay open. We did not have that data until the last couple of weeks. We can now have more confidence in our approach, and any further actions that can be taken to improve matters should be taken. But it looks like we have a strong base to work off, and we are in a much better place that nearly every country in Europe.

Good to see you know more than Tony Holohan, who has just said the numbers/trend can't prove anything yet. I posted it earlier today.

meeeeh · 28-10-2020 03:51PM

irishblessing wrote: »

Good to see you know more than Tony Holohan, who has just said the numbers/trend can't prove anything yet. I posted it earlier today.

Since we listen to everything Tony Holohan says:

The chief medical officer Dr Tony Holohan has said he does not anticipate the National Public Health Emergency Team (Nphet) advising the Government not to reopen schools at the end of the midterm break.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/nphet-not-anticipating-advising-against-schools-reopening-after-midterm-1.4393146

Schools closed until February? (part 3)

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