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Covid 19 Part XXVII- 62,002 ROI (1,915 deaths) 39,609 NI (724 deaths) (02/11) Read OP

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Comments

  • #6842
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,491 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    GT89 wrote: »
    It should be up to people if they want to go to christmas dinner or not. I have never been forced to attend any Christmas dinners in my adult life. If people want to have christmas dinners or attend one then fine if they do then they should be allowed to do so.

    I believe people should be free to make their own decisions as to what they feel is safe. Leave the pubs, shops and restaurants open and if you don't feel safe don't go like in Sweden. Same with masks and social distancing if you feel safer wearing a mask and/or staying 2m from other people fine but don't make everyone else do the same.

    Yeah, great, but the problem is that not enough people behave responsibly. So you have to take these measures as a result.


  • #6843
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    hmmm wrote: »
    The virus isn't going to take Christmas off unfortunately. We could have one "blow-out" week, but we then have an explosion of cases afterwards. I know in our house we would have a large dinner, about 4 generations, and then visit relatives afterwards. We can't do that in a pandemic, one infected person and you could have an entire family infected.

    I didn't see the Prime Time tonight, but I'm glad to hear that one of the people they interviewed made the point that we can't (shouldn't) have a normal Christmas this year. If we have a different Christmas this year, we'll have everyone alive around the table next year.

    I was hoping my OH would get to have his two.adult children overnight at Christmas and we agreed with them that we would all isolate prior to doing so

    That was a month ago

    If we can even meet up with them for a few hours that would be OK now

    That works for us as we have a small social circle and we work from home, but God almighty it will be a huge ask for a lot of people


  • #6844
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    Arghus wrote: »
    Yeah, great, but the problem is that not enough people behave responsibly. So you have to take these measures as a result.

    Nonsense people can behave responsibly if they wish/care. The reason most people don't behave responsibly is because they don't care and why should they? Let people do whatever they like and if some people fear for their safety let them stay at home or take whatever precautions they feel is nessecary.


  • #6845
    Jimson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 164 ✭✭Jimson


    hmmm wrote: »
    You could see from the Level 3 figures for Dublin that it had stabilised things, but then it had begun to accelerate again. So Level 3+ is perhaps the sweet spot (I'm not quite sure what the + is, but closing the indoor potential superspreading locations has to be key). Level 3+ as I'll call it should be enough to stabilise cases, but not enough to get them to fall.

    Hopefully we're seeing the same leveling off now countrywide, and with most people doing their best to obey the current restrictions we should see a fall. I'm not sure it's realistic to expect an R of .5, so we might be stuck here for a while. But once we get the case numbers down to somewhere relatively low (say 100 a day) we can hopefully get a longer runup to the next wave with restrictions of the 3+ range.

    Then we're into the new year, and we're going to get vaccinations. I saw an interview with Professor Leung from Hong Kong who was one of the leading experts on this from back in January/February and he thinks we are half-way through this pandemic. Gottlieb in the US thinks the wave we are in now will be the worst. So overall we are not quite at the turning point, but we are hopefully not far off.

    We won't see vaccinations till at least half way through 2022.


  • #6846
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,465 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    GT89 wrote: »
    Nonsense people can behave responsibly if they wish/care. The reason most people don't behave responsibly is because they don't care and why should they? Let people do whatever they like and if some people fear for their safety let them stay at home or take whatever precautions they feel is nessecary.

    What an utterly selfish attitude.


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  • #6847
    o1s1n
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 37,003 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    GT89 wrote: »
    Nonsense people can behave responsibly if they wish/care. The reason most people don't behave responsibly is because they don't care and why should they? Let people do whatever they like and if some people fear for their safety let them stay at home or take whatever precautions they feel is nessecary.

    'im going to drink drive, if you fear for your safety, get a car with airbags and put on your seatbelt'


  • #6848
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,202 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Stheno wrote: »
    I was hoping my OH would get to have his two.adult children overnight at Christmas and we agreed with them that we would all isolate prior to doing so

    That was a month ago

    If we can even meet up with them for a few hours that would be OK now

    That works for us as we have a small social circle and we work from home, but God almighty it will be a huge ask for a lot of people
    Similar here. We've talked about getting in two weeks of groceries and basically isolating before Christmas day so we can be fairly sure none of us have it, and then get the grandparents over to our house. No kids and discourage relatives (if they do come over they can stand in the garden).


  • #6849
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    What an utterly selfish attitude.

    It's not a selfish attitude, it's common sense. Restricting people's lives because some have health conditions is the height of selfishness.


  • #6850
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,491 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    GT89 wrote: »
    Nonsense people can behave responsibly if they wish/care. The reason most people don't behave responsibly is because they don't care and why should they? Let people do whatever they like and if some people fear for their safety let them stay at home or take whatever precautions they feel is nessecary.

    "They don't care and why should they..."

    You've just proved in a nutshell why we need restrictions.


  • #6851
    Funsterdelux
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Funsterdelux


    GT89 wrote: »
    It's not a selfish attitude, it's common sense. Restricting people's lives because some have health conditions is the height of selfishness.

    Is that you Prof Gupta?


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  • #6852
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    Arghus wrote: »
    "They don't care and why should they..."

    You've just proved in a nutshell why we need restrictions.

    It's quite simple if you are vulnerable to covid and are happy to restrict your life to prevent catching it stay at home and order your shopping online and only go out for excercise. If not then live your life as normal.

    Open everything and remove the requirement to wear masks. No one is forcing you to go to the pub.


  • #6853
    Deeper Blue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,547 ✭✭✭Deeper Blue


    Jimson wrote: »
    We won't see vaccinations till at least half way through 2022.


    Mind if I ask where you're getting that from?


  • #6854
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.intensivregister.de/#/intensivregister

    here is a website showing how many covid patients are in intensive care in Germany.
    other pages on the website show how many free beds there are.

    Can anyone show me the HSE version of this.
    Ireland would be fine if the HSE had added more ICU capacity in the last seven months


  • #6855
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,806 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    hmmm wrote: »
    The virus isn't going to take Christmas off unfortunately. We could have one "blow-out" week, but we then have an explosion of cases afterwards. I know in our house we would have a large dinner, about 4 generations, and then visit relatives afterwards. We can't do that in a pandemic, one infected person and you could have an entire family infected.

    I didn't see the Prime Time tonight, but I'm glad to hear that one of the people they interviewed made the point that we can't (shouldn't) have a normal Christmas this year. If we have a different Christmas this year, we'll have everyone alive around the table next year.

    You make it sound like we’ll be able to avoid all death if we have a different Christmas.

    Likely someone could die between now and next Christmas and you blew the last chance to have one more Christmas together because you were afraid of Covid.

    Life is too short. I’ll be seeing all my family and friends regardless of restrictions.

    Next Christmas is not guaranteed.


  • #6856
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,491 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    GT89 wrote: »
    It's quite simple if you are vulnerable to covid and are happy to restrict your life to prevent catching it stay at home and order your shopping online and only go out for excercise. If not then live your life as normal.

    I don't see much point in continuing this conversation tbh.


  • #6857
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    You make it sound like we’ll be able to avoid all death if we have a different Christmas.

    Likely someone could die between now and next Christmas and you blew the last chance to have one more Christmas together because you were afraid of Covid.

    Life is too short. I’ll be seeing all my family and friends regardless of restrictions.

    Next Christmas is not guaranteed.

    Exactly I know of people who died since the restrictions were introduced but not of covid. Life is too short to be worrying of a virus when something completely different could kill you before it.


  • #6858
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    Arghus wrote: »
    I don't see much point in continuing this conversation tbh.

    Okay bye


  • #6859
    Renjit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 949 ✭✭✭Renjit


    GT89 wrote: »
    Exactly I know of people who died since the restrictions were introduced but not of covid. Life is too short to be worrying of a virus when something completely different could kill you before it.

    Be grand!


  • #6860
    Irish Steve
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    GT89 wrote: »
    Nonsense people can behave responsibly if they wish/care. The reason most people don't behave responsibly is because they don't care and why should they? Let people do whatever they like and if some people fear for their safety let them stay at home or take whatever precautions they feel is nessecary.

    You've just said, Let people do what they like. Using your logic, will you be happy to accept that if someone sees you doing something irresponsible in a public place, they can comes up to you and spray you with a long lasting very visible dye to indicate to others that your actions may result in others being adversely affected?

    There is a down side to this, If you have dye on you, then you are not allowed into places like supermarkets during the period where they give priority to people who are vulnerable, and the vulnerable hours should be extended to ensure that the relevant places are accessible and available to them.

    For dye marked people, a medical grade mask would be mandatory in all enclosed public places, and hand sanitising would be mandatory on entry to places like supermarkets.

    Public transport would also be barred to "marked" people.

    If you're happy with that concept, then maybe there's a way forward, if you're not, then maybe there's a fatal flaw in your argument.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • #6861
    nacho libre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,876 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Jimson wrote: »
    We won't see vaccinations till at least half way through 2022.

    The vulnerable will be the first to get any potential vaccine early next year, it could take six months to complete this. It will be 2022 before the rest of us get it. However once the vulnerable have hopefully been given immunity, life should slowly start returning to normal, as the need for lockdowns will diminish.
    It's quite likely though that covid 19 will be like others covid viruses and require seasonal vaccines.


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  • #6862
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_hospital_beds

    Those ICU numbers per Country tell a tale.

    The HSE is a money gobbling monster but somehow the money gobbled doesn't translate in to resources and infrastructure when needed.

    This lesson isn't being learned and won't be addressed when the pandemic is done. The HSE will continue to gobble money with little to show for it.


  • #6863
    JP Liz V1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 92,228 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    Are we still sending tests to Germany?

    No matter what people tell you, words and ideas can change this World



  • #6864
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    Irish Steve wrote: »
    You've just said, Let people do what they like. Using your logic, will you be happy to accept that if someone sees you doing something irresponsible in a public place, they can comes up to you and spray you with a long lasting very visible dye to indicate to others that your actions may result in others being adversely affected?

    There is a down side to this, If you have dye on you, then you are not allowed into places like supermarkets during the period where they give priority to people who are vulnerable, and the vulnerable hours should be extended to ensure that the relevant places are accessible and available to them.

    For dye marked people, a medical grade mask would be mandatory in all enclosed public places, and hand sanitising would be mandatory on entry to places like supermarkets.

    Public transport would also be barred to "marked" people.

    If you're happy with that concept, then maybe there's a way forward, if you're not, then maybe there's a fatal flaw in your argument.

    So litterally the mark of the beast is basically what you are proposing. This is coronaphobia gone mad.

    In my scenario no would be forced to do anything but in your scenario people would be basically be treated like slaves. So in essence I support freedom and you support slavery. I'm glad you have nailed your colours to the mast.


  • #6865
    US2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,651 ✭✭✭US2


    o1s1n wrote: »
    'im going to drink drive, if you fear for your safety, get a car with airbags and put on your seatbelt'

    Comparing visiting the mother on Christmas day with drink driving just **** off


  • #6866
    Risteard81
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,566 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    GT89 wrote: »
    It should be up to people if they want to go to christmas dinner or not. I have never been forced to attend any Christmas dinners in my adult life. If people want to have christmas dinners or attend one then fine if they do then they should be allowed to do so.

    I believe people should be free to make their own decisions as to what they feel is safe. Leave the pubs, shops and restaurants open and if you don't feel safe don't go like in Sweden. Same with masks and social distancing if you feel safer wearing a mask and/or staying 2m from other people fine but don't make everyone else do the same.
    Absolutely. No-one will ever convince me that enforcing these things is not unlawful. It very clearly is unconstitutional and completely illegal.


  • #6867
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,491 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You make it sound like we’ll be able to avoid all death if we have a different Christmas.

    Likely someone could die between now and next Christmas and you blew the last chance to have one more Christmas together because you were afraid of Covid.

    Life is too short. I’ll be seeing all my family and friends regardless of restrictions.

    Next Christmas is not guaranteed.

    People will make their own choices about what to do at Christmas.

    My own circumstances are that I work in a busy retail environment and people I work with either getting the virus or being close contacts and needing testing is now a regular occurance.

    Hopefully the situation will improve over the next number of weeks, but there is no guarantee. Every single year, without fail, my workplace becomes absolutely riddled with cold and flu - I just keep thinking of that and all the extra uncertainty that'll bring this year.

    Chances are that'll be working up until the very last second we're open on Christmas Eve and who knows what the situation will be regarding the virus. My father is 74 and I have to be realistic. If the situation isn't markedly improved, there's a risk that I bring that home to him. I wouldn't call that being afraid, it's just being realistic.

    Everyone's situation is different and people are going to do what they like over Christmas, Tony Holohan more or less said the same himself at one of the press briefings last week.


  • #6868
    Drumpot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=114283541&postcount=694
    If I owned a pub , I’d be starting to look at next April as a potential opening time. Plan for the worst and hope for the best but I don’t see pubs opening for a long long time if numbers increase in sept and remain at a decent level to October. You don’t then add another risk variable that could increase that number when there might be a seasonal jump.

    I posted this is August. Have always felt there would be a surge and until next April or May there was going to be disruptions and rolling lockdowns. Nobody at this stage should have any other delusions other then hoping things get better sooner but under the realisation and acceptance that the next 6 months prob won’t be a hole lot of fun.

    Once this negative stuff is out of the way I think there is a lot of cause for optimism hopefully coming into the summer. Much has been highlighted here, vaccines, better treatment, better national strategies and maybe even an economic boom if or when people can go back to much lower restrictions. I’m hoping for an ssia or better kind of injection into the economy.

    Things may not play out as black and white as these two paragraphs would suggest but they are a template of reasonable expectations as far as I am concerned. There’s room for things to be better or worse but I think I have a realistic expectation for the next 10 months.


  • #6869
    SeaBreezes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,562 ✭✭✭SeaBreezes


    https://twitter.com/KeBeMeWas19/status/1321253292534566912?s=20


  • #6870
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    This what is actually happening with covid. You are a slave and need to free yourself.
    https://youtu.be/mSwYs6zB6TI


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  • #6871
    Irish Steve
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    GT89 wrote: »
    So litterally the mark of the beast is basically what you are proposing. This is coronaphobia gone mad.

    In my scenario no would be forced to do anything but in your scenario people would be basically be treated like slaves. So in essence I support freedom and you support slavery. I'm glad you have nailed your colours to the mast.

    But some would be forced to do some things, they would be forced to withdraw from significant aspects of living in society as a direct result of your actions, I've suggested an alternative to your making it impossible for people with known risk situations to participate in society in a reasonable manner.

    Maybe it is the mark of the beast, but if it is, it will be because you have chosen to act like a beast, and that attitude has been pretty clear from your posts over quite a while.

    I'm just not prepared to sit back and be intimidated by it any longer. I am saying very clearly that I have as much right to participate in society as you do, and if Covid is making that more dangerous, a reasonable society should do whatever is necessary to make sure that ALL the members of that society are not put at risk by the irresponsible actions of a minority.

    If you drink and drive, and are caught doing so, you will forfeit the ability to drive for a period. If you move around the place potentially putting others at risk by not taking the precautions that are being required, then it is absolutely reasonable that sanction should be applied to you.

    OK, here's another option. If you are caught breaking the rules, then you have to wear a bluetooth bracelet that sends out a signal to phones around you that sounds an alarm on those phones to warn people of a risk situation, so that they can take appropriate actions. Same rules otherwise about access to places like supermarkets, public transport, and yes, maybe even pubs if they are deemed safe to reopen to people who obey the rules.

    That's not a visible mark of the beast, if that's the way you want to see it, but if might make it pretty hard for you to participate in society, but that might mean that others can still do so.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



This discussion has been closed.
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