Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings

CruelSummer · 27-10-2020 02:38PM

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/martin-feeley-hospital-admissions-don-t-justify-pressing-the-panic-button-1.4390870

Not sure if this was shared yet on here, great article by Dr Martin Feeley - in particular his questioning as to why we re-entered lockdown when we did:

"What precipitated lockdown at this particular time is a complete mystery. I use Dublin data as it had the highest pro rata incidence during March and April. The number admitted to hospital in Dublin increased slightly over the past 4 weeks but the number in ICUs has not changed, when the average total number in Dublin ICUs was 13; compare this to the average total number of Covid-19 patients in these ICUs for each of the 7 days from 8th- 13th April which was 78, i.e., occupancy is now 16 per cent of what it was. How this justifies pressing the panic button needs to be explained, and now!"

I've repeatedly called for the data upon which NPHET and the Government made this decision to be released for the public to see. Why is it being hidden? Coupled with this - are 45% of hospitalised 'cases' of Covid just in there with something else and testing positive...

27-10-2020 02:50PM

normanoffside wrote: »

45% actually acquires it in Hospital.
Of the other 55% some are in with it and others Because of it.

well that makes sense because donnelly said last week on newstalk, that about 41% have no apparent finger print..so that could mean if they catch it in Hospital, better to say NO bread crumbs rather than bread crumbs from Hospitals.

drunkmonkey · 27-10-2020 02:51PM

charlie14 wrote: »

Leitrim alone is bordered by 6 other counties with one of them Fermanagh being in Northern Ireland.
We could not seal off Leitrim alone, never mind other counties if they became clear from those bordering them.

We got to test the whole island together then. It'll be interesting to see what Slovakia do once testing is complete.

There strict on their borders, passengers arriving in the country are required to show a negative COVID-19 PCR or serology test result taken within the preceding 72-hours prior to arrival.

average_runner · 27-10-2020 02:56PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

This regularly happens.

Nobody suggests a **** it policy, have no idea where that repeatedly comes from.

Social distancing, mask wearing and hand washing.

Are those a waste of time?

Ireland has decided none of those are adequate and must be coupled with suppression of socialisation and the worst job losses in Europe.

Do you have the link for worst job losses in Europe?

KennisWhale · 27-10-2020 02:59PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

This regularly happens.

Nobody suggests a **** it policy, have no idea where that repeatedly comes from.

Social distancing, mask wearing and hand washing.

Are those a waste of time?

Ireland has decided none of those are adequate and must be coupled with suppression of socialisation and the worst job losses in Europe.

It comes from a mentality that can only read the situation as black and white. When something doesn't fit into one it must be the other. The "straight to level 5" attitude from King Doomer is an example of this black and white thinking.

Cluedo Monopoly · 27-10-2020 02:59PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

NZ and Australia will be fascinating to observe over the next while

NZ has essentially economically obliterated itself chasing the unicorn.

Australia likewise has burnt its relationship with China(its largest export market) over the suspected origination of the Covid virus.

Yep and I think Australia have over-reacted to Covid in order to try and emulate NZ.

Penfailed · 27-10-2020 03:02PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

I've repeatedly called for the data upon which NPHET and the Government made this decision to be released for the public to see. Why is it being hidden? Coupled with this - are 45% of hospitalised 'cases' of Covid just in there with something else and testing positive...

You've repeatedly called for it here on Boards. Have you actually asked anyone in power? Anyone that could furnish you with the information? If not, you're shouting into the wind.

3xh · 27-10-2020 03:06PM

......and regarding this 45% Covid figure in hospitals, let’s not forget, as more and more people get it in the community and assuming this 78-day figure for Covid to continue to show up in PCR tests, ‘hospital numbers with Covid’ will naturally rise also!

It was always bound to happen. Statistics are a curse.

NPHET are a disgrace. And I mean all of them. Both the quiet, behind-the-scenes complicit ones as well as the limelight craving ones we all know so well as this stage.

FintanMcluskey · 27-10-2020 03:40PM

KennisWhale wrote: »

It comes from a mentality that can only read the situation as black and white. When something doesn't fit into one it must be the other. The "straight to level 5" attitude from King Doomer is an example of this black and white thinking.

It is such a remedial argument.

No one suggested to “let it rip”

The social distancing and mask wearing are 2 rather unsocial measures implemented for a number of months now.

Coupled with the regular hand washing it’s certainly supposed to be a great help to suppress the virus.

But if those don’t work without lockdowns, do they work at all?

FintanMcluskey · 27-10-2020 03:44PM

Penfailed wrote: »

You've repeatedly called for it here on Boards. Have you actually asked anyone in power? Anyone that could furnish you with the information? If not, you're shouting into the wind.

Because it’s a discussion platform where people pose questions.

You don’t seem to understand that

rob316 · 27-10-2020 04:14PM

I was talking to my neighbour yesterday and he was giving out mad about the virus. He said I can imagine the conversation I'll have with my kid when she's older about this.

Daddy we learned about COVID-19 today in school, what was it like living through it? Terrible, everything was closed, couldn't travel, loads out of work.

But it was a pandemic daddy, so lots of people died? No not really about 2000 people.

There must of been loads of people in hospital sick daddy? No about 300 people at once.

But there is over 5 million people in the country, why did we close everything for 300 sick people daddy? I'm still trying to figure it out love.

FintanMcluskey · 27-10-2020 04:27PM

rob316 wrote: »

I was talking to my neighbour yesterday and he was giving out mad about the virus. He said I can imagine the conversation I'll have with my kid when she's older about this.

Daddy we learned about COVID-19 today in school, what was it like living through it? Terrible, everything was closed, couldn't travel, loads out of work.

But it was a pandemic daddy, so lots of people died? No not really about 2000 people.

There must of been loads of people in hospital sick daddy? No about 300 people at once.

But there is over 5 million people in the country, why did we close everything for 300 sick people daddy? I'm still trying to figure it out love.

Haha yeah, did many of your friends get sick in the pandemic daddy?

No, now stop asking questions and eat the rice and water the nice man in the food truck gave us

funnydoggy · 27-10-2020 04:35PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Haha yeah, did many of your friends get sick in the pandemic daddy?

No, now stop asking questions and eat the rice and water the nice man in the food truck gave us

That got dark quickly!

CruelSummer · 27-10-2020 04:40PM

Penfailed wrote: »

You've repeatedly called for it here on Boards. Have you actually asked anyone in power? Anyone that could furnish you with the information? If not, you're shouting into the wind.

I've looked far and wide for the information. There are many people who have political contacts that could ask these questions and should be, but don't. I've e-mailed my local TD's on many occasions and they are familiar with my views. One being particularly helpful in comparison to the other.
I'm going to tune into the press conference this evening for the first time in weeks and see what sort of 'hard' questions our journalists of today will ask of NPHET and our current strategy.

froog · 27-10-2020 04:46PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

It is such a remedial argument.

No one suggested to “let it rip”

The social distancing and mask wearing are 2 rather unsocial measures implemented for a number of months now.

Coupled with the regular hand washing it’s certainly supposed to be a great help to suppress the virus.

But if those don’t work without lockdowns, do they work at all?

If everyone in the world practiced perfect social distancing at all times and wore masks properly this thing would have been over pretty quickly.

Cyrus · 27-10-2020 04:47PM

froog wrote: »

If everyone in the world practiced perfect social distancing at all times and wore masks properly this thing would have been over pretty quickly.

If everyone in the world practiced perfect social distancing why would anyone need masks?

Plumbthedepths · 27-10-2020 04:47PM

Good read.http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/lockdown-decision-makers-still-get-paid-those-they-shut-down-do-not/

froog · 27-10-2020 04:51PM

Cyrus wrote: »

If everyone in the world practiced perfect social distancing why would anyone need masks?

Less droplets on surfaces.

27-10-2020 04:54PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

I've looked far and wide for the information. There are many people who have political contacts that could ask these questions and should be, but don't. I've e-mailed my local TD's on many occasions and they are familiar with my views. One being particularly helpful in comparison to the other.
I'm going to tune into the press conference this evening for the first time in weeks and see what sort of 'hard' questions our journalists of today will ask of NPHET and our current strategy.

be prepared to hear "when can barber open" from anyone in TV3!
You will not hear anything that has NOT been pre approved or vetted

Cyrus · 27-10-2020 04:56PM

froog wrote: »

Less droplets on surfaces.

hasnt the whole surfaces thing been debunked? its extremely unlikely to contract covid from an inanimate surface unless a perfect sequence of events occurs.

about as unlikely as catching it from someone on a footpath walking past them yet people are jumping into traffic to avoid each other.

normanoffside · 27-10-2020 05:00PM

Cyrus wrote: »

hasnt the whole surfaces thing been debunked? its extremely unlikely to contract covid from an inanimate surface unless a perfect sequence of events occurs.

about as unlikely as catching it from someone on a footpath walking past them yet people are jumping into traffic to avoid each other.

I've completely disregarded the whole sanitising hands rubbish a long time ago anyway.
Accounts for 1% of transmission at the most according to any studies I've read.

I have no idea why we are persisting with that advice, although it probably keeps the numbers of colds and Flus down.

average_runner · 27-10-2020 05:00PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

It is such a remedial argument.

No one suggested to “let it rip”

The social distancing and mask wearing are 2 rather unsocial measures implemented for a number of months now.

Coupled with the regular hand washing it’s certainly supposed to be a great help to suppress the virus.

But if those don’t work without lockdowns, do they work at all?

They might work if people implemented them, but they don't.

Penfailed · 27-10-2020 06:24PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Because it’s a discussion platform where people pose questions.

You don’t seem to understand that

I understand perfectly...but there's discussion...and there's repeatedly asking questions of the wrong people.

Penfailed · 27-10-2020 06:29PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

I've looked far and wide for the information. There are many people who have political contacts that could ask these questions and should be, but don't. I've e-mailed my local TD's on many occasions and they are familiar with my views. One being particularly helpful in comparison to the other.
I'm going to tune into the press conference this evening for the first time in weeks and see what sort of 'hard' questions our journalists of today will ask of NPHET and our current strategy.

Fair play in contacting your TDs. I genuinely hope you have some success.

27-10-2020 06:30PM

Cases are decreasing. Lockdown should be lifted immediately. Should never have entered it.

Level 2 countrywide.

KennisWhale · 27-10-2020 06:30PM

Level 3 looks like it did the job, we should be moved back down to it this week if there was any real acknowledgement of the plan for us to "live with covid".

FintanMcluskey · 27-10-2020 06:44PM

Penfailed wrote: »

I understand perfectly...but there's discussion...and there's repeatedly asking questions of the wrong people.

This is what we have been saying since April.

If we asks medics how to deal with a pandemic the answer will be lockdowns, with no consideration for the direct economic effects which will effect the future of the health service.

If we ask economists and public health experts they will suggest social distancing, masks etc but live alongside the disease, to preserve the health service moving forward.

We have been asking the wrong people the wrong questions.

RugbyLad11 · 27-10-2020 06:56PM

Cases continue to drop, it looks like level 3 done the job and stabilized to be num cases.

The gov panicked and went to level 5 before they could even see the results of level 3.

Will they drop down to level 3 if the nums continue to drop? After all the WHO themselves say that lockdowns should be only used as a last resort to stabilize the cases and buy healthcare workers times. It appears that level 3 can do exactly that!!

FintanMcluskey · 27-10-2020 06:59PM

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

Cases continue to drop, it looks like level 3 done the job and stabilized to be num cases.

The gov panicked and went to level 5 before they could even see the results of level 3.

Will they drop down to level 3 if the nums continue to drop? After all the WHO themselves say that lockdowns should be only used as a last resort to stabilize the cases and buy healthcare workers times. It appears that level 3 can do exactly that!!

Level 3 was the strictest in Europe at the time, so while going back to that would be ok, level 2 would make more sense

Captain_Crash · 27-10-2020 07:03PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Level 3 was the strictest in Europe at the time, so while going back to that would be ok, level 2 would make more sense

If level 2 makes most sense, which I agree it does.... We’ll end up at level 6!

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Comments

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings