Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

Open the Pubs · 27-10-2020 12:30PM

What is the latest with pubs in England, are theirs still open with curfew? How come other countries can keep bars and pubs open but we can't?

I watched an FA Cup qualifying game last night on BT Sport, non League teams, full crowd at the game and lads drinking pints. No distancing or masks required.

MrStuffins · 27-10-2020 12:53PM

Open the Pubs wrote: »

What is the latest with pubs in England, are theirs still open with curfew? How come other countries can keep bars and pubs open but we can't?

What about England?

What about Sweden?

What about Japan?

What about Narnia?

El_Duderino 09 · 27-10-2020 12:56PM

Open the Pubs wrote: »

What is the latest with pubs in England, are theirs still open with curfew? How come other countries can keep bars and pubs open but we can't?

I watched an FA Cup qualifying game last night on BT Sport, non League teams, full crowd at the game and lads drinking pints. No distancing or masks required.

You say full crowds but you mean the following: Non-elite teams, playing at non-elite team home ground (England only), only fans from home team and fans spaced at 2m.

And the UK COVID numbers are going haywire in the last few weeks. Local, regional and national lockdowns across the UK. You'd need to be very selective to use the UK as an example of anything good about COVID. But that's pretty much what you did above.

Are you sure the fans were drinking alcohol at the game?

PommieBast · 27-10-2020 01:56PM

Open the Pubs wrote: »

What is the latest with pubs in England, are theirs still open with curfew? How come other countries can keep bars and pubs open but we can't?

It varies from region to region and even pub to pub. Locals around here still open (currently holes up at my parents' place) but blanket closures in some of the cities are expected.

Suckit · 27-10-2020 04:30PM

AdamD wrote: »

I do wonder if people are living in the same country as me. The rush will be massive. Every pub in my area was completely booked out when they could open as restaurants and remained booked out when they could only serve outdoors.

I have no idea where you live, the size of the pubs, the amount of them etc.
The pubs near me were booked out too, as there are only 3 and could only accomodate x amount of people.
Nobody is disputing the rush will be massive, I am just not sure it will be as big as anticipated, or more to the point, if it will sustain. Moreover I am not so sure that they will get all of their regulars back.
Some people have nice little trust bars set up, the cost is a fraction of going to the local. I can see a lot of them continuing for many reasons.
The weekend pub rush will undoubtedly be massive from 18 - 35.
But there will be many that will stay away, and many that the 'novelty' will fade off, as well as the expense.
I am not referring to the initial 'rush' as much as a couple of months after opening.

Open the Pubs · 27-10-2020 04:51PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

You say full crowds but you mean the following: Non-elite teams, playing at non-elite team home ground (England only), only fans from home team and fans spaced at 2m.

And the UK COVID numbers are going haywire in the last few weeks. Local, regional and national lockdowns across the UK. You'd need to be very selective to use the UK as an example of anything good about COVID. But that's pretty much what you did above.

Are you sure the fans were drinking alcohol at the game?

That's a pretty arrogant reply from someone who didn't even watch it. I know what level it was at and there was full crowds. Look it up.

Yes definitely it was Bishops Stortford Vs At Albans, there was a pretty full crowd and there was no distancing. A lot of the fans were drinking pints in plastic glasses.

Open the Pubs · 27-10-2020 04:55PM

MrStuffins wrote: »

What about England?

What about Sweden?

What about Japan?

What about Narnia?

Have you nothing better to do than troll this thread and post gibberish like the above? Maybe you started early on the creamy takeaway pints this morning!

Xenji · 27-10-2020 05:06PM

Open the Pubs wrote: »

That's a pretty arrogant reply from someone who didn't even watch it. I know what level it was at and there was full crowds. Look it up.

Yes definitely it was Bishops Stortford Vs At Albans, there was a pretty full crowd and there was no distancing. A lot of the fans were drinking pints in plastic glasses.

Lot of know it alls on here who don't really know much outside their narrow views.

600 people in attendance for it, not what I would call a full crowd as attendance is capped at 15% currently at non league grounds.

Geuze · 27-10-2020 05:17PM

Suckit wrote: »

A lot of pubs will probably drop the price to get people in.

Over twenty years of going to pubs and noticing trends tells me this will not happen.

Price- based competition in Ireland is very rare.

The dominance of a few brewers, and the publicans cartel prevents it.

MrStuffins · 27-10-2020 05:17PM

Open the Pubs wrote: »

Have you nothing better to do than troll this thread and post gibberish like the above? Maybe you started early on the creamy takeaway pints this morning!

I'm not trolling. I just want to know what 600 people at an FA Cup qualifier in some bumfluff town in the middle of the UK (who had 21,000 cases yesterday) has to do with our pubs?

Whataboutery gets us nowhere!

Open the Pubs · 27-10-2020 05:48PM

Xenji wrote: »

600 people in attendance for it, not what I would call a full crowd as attendance is capped at 15% currently at non league grounds.

600 people at a tier 7/8 game is pretty full?!

Open the Pubs · 27-10-2020 05:57PM

MrStuffins wrote: »

I'm not trolling. I just want to know what 600 people at an FA Cup qualifier in some bumfluff town in the middle of the UK (who had 21,000 cases yesterday) has to do with our pubs?

Whataboutery gets us nowhere!

If the English can drink in pubs safely why can't we? We're a nanny state that likes to control every aspect of our citizens lifes.

We are treated like children by our rulers told if we behave we might be able to go out and play at Christmas.

Xenji · 27-10-2020 05:57PM

Open the Pubs wrote: »

600 people at a tier 7/8 game is pretty full?!

Not really when the maximum capacity at Woodside Park where the match was played is 4,525 and non league football has always had a strong grassroots fan base especially now that fans are unable go to the bigger games.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 27-10-2020 06:17PM

Open the Pubs wrote: »

If the English can drink in pubs safely why can't we? We're a nanny state that likes to control every aspect of our citizens lifes.

We are treated like children by our rulers told if we behave we might be able to go out and play at Christmas.

Because we've the worst health service in the Western world. The WHO say lockdowns are only to be used in order to get your house in order and give you time to increase hospital beds and ICU units... so lockdown 1 came and went all all the gov did was buy some masks and hand sanitizer... and somehow it's our fault we're back in lockdown because...umm "da house parties"...

MrStuffins · 27-10-2020 06:29PM

Open the Pubs wrote: »

If the English can drink in pubs safely why can't we?

What about the Greeks?

What about the Romans?

If you're gonna wheel out "what about", at least use an example from a county who aren't riddled with Covid!

Classic whataboutery!

vojiwox · 27-10-2020 09:13PM

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Because we've the worst health service in the Western world.

Is that true?

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 27-10-2020 09:43PM

vojiwox wrote: »

Is that true?

Ah, a pinch of salt, I think The Ukraine is the only country in Europe with a worse health system.

27-10-2020 10:02PM

Open the Pubs wrote: »

Have you nothing better to do than troll this thread and post gibberish like the above? Maybe you started early on the creamy takeaway pints this morning!

They’re right though.

**** England. They’re hardly a case to be followed in anything.

doublejobbing 2 · 27-10-2020 10:31PM

MrStuffins wrote: »

But how many of the conspiracy theorists were saying that "wet pubs" would never open again and then were very quiet when they did?

They never opened in Dublin.

How long did they last outside Dublin, two, three weeks?

It was an insult we were given.

vojiwox · 27-10-2020 10:32PM

Hunky Monster wrote: »

The Ukraine is the only country in Europe with a worse health system.

Is that true?

:pac:

vojiwox · 27-10-2020 10:33PM

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

They’re right though.

**** England. They’re hardly a case to be followed in anything.

I dunno, BBC and it's online version are top class. We should follow that.

doublejobbing 2 · 27-10-2020 10:38PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The majority are pro more restrictions and harder lockdowns. You can't say don't panic while we're pretty much under house arrest at the moment and people want more of it.

The majority?

The surveys I have seen ask pretty soft, non commital leading questions.

I'd like to see a survey with

- To what extent would you agree with the statement "the government, individual medics, sections of the legal/ health authorities, and/ or the media, have at the very least exaggerated or misrepresented the threat of Covid to the general population and have been less than forthcoming with clear and concise statistics relating to deaths of relatively healthy individuls, the percentage of long term illnesses among people affected, and other relevant details"

- the government has used the Covid period to enact unpopular measures that have little relationship to the pandemic but are being packaged as designed to respond to it

I think we would be well into majority agreement with these two. On the second point the government has used the issue to attempt to force through 30kph restrictions in Dublin, minimum alcohol pricing, and attempting to break the traditional make up of the Irish pub experience by making it more continental with food and table service.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 27-10-2020 10:41PM

vojiwox wrote: »

Is that true?

:pac:

Depends on what you consider the health service.

At the moment icu beds per capita may be the most important metric.

If so we are significantly below average but not the absolute worst.

134_2012_2627_Fig1_HTML.gif?as=webp

MrStuffins · 27-10-2020 10:52PM

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

They never opened in Dublin.

How long did they last outside Dublin, two, three weeks?

It was an insult we were given.

The claim was never "They'll never open again in Dublin, but they'll open again in other counties and last a few weeks"

I'm not exactly sure how your post is in any way an answer to mine.

mountgomery burns · 27-10-2020 10:59PM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Depends on what you consider the health service.

At the moment icu beds per capita may be the most important metric.

If so we are significantly below average but not the absolute worst.

There's 18/31 below that average though, and about 9 others at a similar level to ourselves with a 10th (Portugal) significantly worse.

That means we are comparable to a third of Europe in terms of ICU capacity. It's bad and not where we should be, but we're not some massive outlier according to that metric as is often portrayed.

I get that's not what you're saying just to be clear but often it's an argument in favour of our lengthy restrictions.

IAMAMORON · 27-10-2020 11:00PM

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

The majority?

The surveys I have seen ask pretty soft, non commital leading questions.

I'd like to see a survey with

- To what extent would you agree with the statement "the government, individual medics, sections of the legal/ health authorities, and/ or the media, have at the very least exaggerated or misrepresented the threat of Covid to the general population and have been less than forthcoming with clear and concise statistics relating to deaths of relatively healthy individuls, the percentage of long term illnesses among people affected, and other relevant details"

I certainly think it has enabled certain mantras and governing during a crisis does allow a certain degree of acute focus on the crisis whilst not having to deal with other pertinent issues. While the inferno is burning everyone has to concentrate on putting it out. The media are also having a right old time of things, bad news travels fast. They know fine well that doom and panic sell well, just ask George Lee, the godfather of doom and dispair. I would not dream of criticizing frontline healthcare workers, but I reckon the faffing around amongst the pen pushers of the HSE is only comical. I mean the statistics have been a joke from the start, that is not the government's fault, but it is indicative of the failures of the Irish health system, from an administrative angle.

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

- the government has used the Covid period to enact unpopular measures that have little relationship to the pandemic but are being packaged as designed to respond to it

This is not happening and i assume you are being sarcastic. Anyone dreaming such theories up are looking to stir shight. I wouldn't be giving the coalition that much credit, no one is as ever as cute as they would seem to be, any government is no different.

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

I think we would be well into majority agreement with these two. On the second point the government has used the issue to attempt to force through 30kph restrictions in Dublin, minimum alcohol pricing, and attempting to break the traditional make up of the Irish pub experience by making it more continental with food and table service.

This sounds like garbage. As i said earlier, the government are not that cute, neither are their policy strategists'. Anyone thinking there is some sort of twisted little secret going on is bonkers and needs to check themselves in.

vojiwox · 27-10-2020 11:03PM

Hunky Monster wrote: »

The Ukraine is the only country in Europe with a worse health system.

what numbers were you using ?

Neowise · 27-10-2020 11:41PM

mountgomery burns wrote: »

There's 18/31 below that average though, and about 9 others at a similar level to ourselves with a 10th (Portugal) significantly worse.

That means we are comparable to a third of Europe in terms of ICU capacity. It's bad and not where we should be, but we're not some massive outlier according to that metric as is often portrayed.

I get that's not what you're saying just to be clear but often it's an argument in favour of our lengthy restrictions.

The graph does not take into consideration that the number changes dynamically.

6.2 per 100k = 322 ICU beds.

On sept 30th

Pre-Covid capacity: 225
Temporary surge capacity: 354
Current permanent capacity: 280
Capacity after Winter Plan funding: 297

There were 41 of current 280 full-staffed beds available yesterday.

Staffing ICU beds is expensive, and having 100's of fully staffed not in use ICU beds would be a humongous waste of money. When more was needed in March/April, they got and staffed more, I have read that there was capacity for 411 at one stage, I'll link source.

Why has 322 been used in the graph, i don't know, but saying that we don't have lots of people in an ICU bed is a good thing, not a bad thing.

If you have a low number of fully staffed ICU beds, then that usually means that you have less critically ill patients.

Its not a metric I would jump to anyhow, to measure how good a countires healthcare system is.

https://www.thejournal.ie/icu-bed-numbers-5217685-Sep2020/

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ireland-s-icu-facilities-can-deal-with-just-411-patients-warn-critical-care-specialists-1.4232655

Suckit · 28-10-2020 01:43AM

Geuze wrote: »

Over twenty years of going to pubs and noticing trends tells me this will not happen.

Price- based competition in Ireland is very rare.

The dominance of a few brewers, and the publicans cartel prevents it.

Normally I would agree, but things are very different now.
I guess there are a few things to take into consideration, and the pub competition in my town will be very different than it has been in the past.
Right now, there are 5 trust bars operating within a 1 mile radius that I know of (and I am willing to bet that there are many more).
Where I live has very much a fixed pricing and way above what it should be. One pub took them on a few years ago and was shut down.
People have often voiced about opening up some sort of trust bar etc. but there was never enough motivation.
The 'main' local is very dominant, and attracts people from outside the town, that will continue etc.
But I reckon the quieter nights, the Champions League/Europa League for example in the middle of winter will lose a lot of customers.
It'll be interesting to see. Nothing illegal going on, maybe a few covid regulations being bent, but not abused and not at all for the most of level 5 afaik.
I am fairly confident that one pub (owned and paid for a century ago, so no mortgage etc.) will lower the prices where I live, against the grain of the other two, but they were already contemplating that before lockdown. So I guess it also comes down to where you live.
But if I owned a pub and when things opened back up, and quietened down again, I would be pricing as competitively as possible, particularly if I wasn't the best performing pub in the area but offered the same amenities.
Also if I was losing customers during the quieter nights on top of that.

I think (as mentioned) it will be interesting to see.

PTH2009 · 28-10-2020 02:53AM

Suckit wrote: »

Normally I would agree, but things are very different now.
I guess there are a few things to take into consideration, and the pub competition in my town will be very different than it has been in the past.
Right now, there are 5 trust bars operating within a 1 mile radius that I know of (and I am willing to bet that there are many more).
Where I live has very much a fixed pricing and way above what it should be. One pub took them on a few years ago and was shut down.
People have often voiced about opening up some sort of trust bar etc. but there was never enough motivation.
The 'main' local is very dominant, and attracts people from outside the town, that will continue etc.
But I reckon the quieter nights, the Champions League/Europa League for example in the middle of winter will lose a lot of customers.
It'll be interesting to see. Nothing illegal going on, maybe a few covid regulations being bent, but not abused and not at all for the most of level 5 afaik.
I am fairly confident that one pub (owned and paid for a century ago, so no mortgage etc.) will lower the prices where I live, against the grain of the other two, but they were already contemplating that before lockdown. So I guess it also comes down to where you live.
But if I owned a pub and when things opened back up, and quietened down again, I would be pricing as competitively as possible, particularly if I wasn't the best performing pub in the area but offered the same amenities.
Also if I was losing customers during the quieter nights on top of that.

I think (as mentioned) it will be interesting to see.

Whats a trust bar ?

Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

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