Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

IAMAMORON · 26-10-2020 09:10PM

alentejo wrote: »

I suspect pubs to reopen in April 2021 with a focus on outdoors. Would be Sept 2021 before pubs open indoors with graduated relaxations up to Summer 2022

Something like this seems very feasible. I fact it would not surprise me to see an emphasis on getting pubs open before April.

IAMAMORON · 26-10-2020 09:24PM

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

This January we will be in lockdown III, our government being daft enough to retuning Irish emigrants into the country and doing nothing to stop Romanian etc workers from going home for Christmas and returning. Exact same way the virus was reintroduced in August, but the media won't highlight that one, they seem happy to pretend that our jump from circa 5 cases per day to over 2000 (incuding N.I) was purely organic.

The only country in Europe with a blanket ban on pubs to my knowledge. And prior to that the only country coming up with these ludicrous food rules and time limits.

It isn't about public safety. It's a war on pubs by health Nazis like Holohan and nerds who hate the thought of young people having craic they never had like Simon Harris.

The saddest part is, they've broken us. We took the 2nd round of pub closures on the chin, they've beaten us, they have us exactly where they want us- demoralised, depressed and expecting nothing good to happen.

I think there is a lot of truth to this. But I think pointing fingers at spineless politicians is too easy to do. It is not the politicians fault that there is a global pandemic.

I also don't think fingering Romanians travelling home for their Crimbo is left without subtlety, I mean what do think is going to happen, a mass exodus of Romanians on a distinct mission to bring back the Covid virus Transylvanian style? Jesus Bram Stoker would be proud of you. I mean how you have managed to point fingers at Irish Romanians says alot about you more than anything else.

This concept that Ireland would be fine if we locked our borders and hid under the bed is tiresome, it is neither a good idea or a viable solution. There is as much chance as a family bringing it back from a New Years ski trip to Switzerland as there is of any workers travelling home for Crimbo. I would also expect to see a fair amount of Irish travel to the Algarve once the lockdown gets lifted pre Christmas.

Everyone screamed conniptions about Cheltenham 6 months ago, there must have been a fair crowd of Brazilians and Peruvians backing the gg's last March also? Surely if they cancelled the racing they would be fine west of the Amazon tonight.

No one is to blame at this point, it is all about damage limitation.

doublejobbing 2 · 26-10-2020 09:29PM

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I think there is a lot of truth to this. But I think pointing fingers at spineless politicians is too easy to do. It is not the politicians fault that there is a global pandemic.

I also don't think fingering Romanians travelling home for their Crimbo is left without subtlety, I mean what do think is going to happen, a mass exodus of Romanians on a distinct mission to bring back the Covid virus Transylvanian style?

I highlight Romania because last summer their numbers were quite high when we flatlined.

A few weeks later it infested the meat plants.

Agreed, some of it also came back via Irish tourists mixing with Brits in Spain.

All moot anyway seeing as it is a generally harmless flu, but the numbers are important seeing as our government treats it like Ebola.

IAMAMORON · 26-10-2020 09:40PM

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

I highlight Romania because last summer their numbers were quite high when we flatlined.

A few weeks later it infested the meat plants.

Agreed, some of it also came back via Irish tourists mixing with Brits in Spain.

All moot anyway seeing as it is a generally harmless flu, but the numbers are important seeing as our government treats it like Ebola.

I think the government have done ok all things considered. Politics is a very polarised sport these days, particularly during a pandemic. Every decision gets scrutinised and then annihilated by the media and multimedia. If the government don't lockdown they are being reckless and accused of murdering our elderly, on the other hand then, when they do shutdown they are accused of destroying business or of mishandling the situation.

Too many people using it as an excuse to get the digs in. All things considered I think they have done ok, any other government would have done the same. People need to differentiate between elected officials and the state executive which are employed to run the country,

When you break down the state it is civil servants who actually run it, not a gang of flutes hanging around Dáil Eireann talking shight.

El_Duderino 09 · 26-10-2020 10:06PM

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

This January we will be in lockdown III, our government being daft enough to retuning Irish emigrants into the country and doing nothing to stop Romanian etc workers from going home for Christmas and returning. Exact same way the virus was reintroduced in August, but the media won't highlight that one, they seem happy to pretend that our jump from circa 5 cases per day to over 2000 (incuding N.I) was purely organic.

The only country in Europe with a blanket ban on pubs to my knowledge. And prior to that the only country coming up with these ludicrous food rules and time limits.

It isn't about public safety. It's a war on pubs by health Nazis like Holohan and nerds who hate the thought of young people having craic they never had like Simon Harris.

The saddest part is, they've broken us. We took the 2nd round of pub closures on the chin, they've beaten us, they have us exactly where they want us- demoralised, depressed and expecting nothing good to happen.

Paranoid, anti government guff.

Isn’t it amazing that these anti-pub conspiracies need successive governments to hold the same deeply held anti-craic opinion that I’ve never heard normal people express? What are the odds that it’s one thing all politician seem to agree on?

Richard Hillman · 26-10-2020 10:16PM

Going after our drinking culture was always a golden ticket for those at NPHET and the likes of Harris and Varadkar. The €9 Meal thing was to promote the whole European thing of basing drinking around food and to convince us that "you know what? This isn't too bad".

Tony Holohan is in bed with Alcohol Action Ireland
https://alcoholireland.ie/dr-tony-holohan-chief-medical-officer-delivers-the-opening-address-at-alcohol-action-irelands-have-we-bottled-it-alcohol-marketing-and-young-people-conference/

Ultimately NPHET/Alcohol Action Ireland want as many pubs to go out of business as possible to make it as inconvenient as possible. And of course we are funding Alcohol Action Ireland via the HSE budget to lobby the very government that pays them.

MrStuffins · 26-10-2020 10:26PM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Going after our drinking culture was always a golden ticket for those at NPHET and the likes of Harris and Varadkar. The €9 Meal thing was to promote the whole European thing of basing drinking around food and to convince us that "you know what? This isn't too bad".

Tony Holohan is in bed with Alcohol Action Ireland
https://alcoholireland.ie/dr-tony-holohan-chief-medical-officer-delivers-the-opening-address-at-alcohol-action-irelands-have-we-bottled-it-alcohol-marketing-and-young-people-conference/

Ultimately NPHET/Alcohol Action Ireland want as many pubs to go out of business as possible to make it as inconvenient as possible. And of course we are funding Alcohol Action Ireland via the HSE budget to lobby the very government that pays them.

What's the motivation to bring down the pubs?

And what's the endgame for them?

IAMAMORON · 26-10-2020 10:42PM

MrStuffins wrote: »

What's the motivation to bring down the pubs?

And what's the endgame for them?

I think it is fairly obvious if you ever spent a Saturday night in an A&E department. Healthcare professionals don't own pubs.

It is not as simple as people like Dr Holohan dreaming up evil conspiracies either. But in any government body there is politics and where you get politics you get a variety of interests. Some of those will encompass an anti-alcohol agenda. If it makes a governing body's life any easier they will look to be seen to be appeasing such agendas.

I don't think there is a politician in power looking to kill the industry either, but, they have definitely decided that politically at this point, that they can get away with throwing the industry under a bus. There are more people out there that are just as happy to see them shut as be open. That adds up to votes and the spin doctors and SPADs will have advised appropriately. It is all about sacrifices and getting votes.

drunkmonkey · 26-10-2020 10:47PM

The off licences are next on the hit list. Can't see them getting a clear run for the next few weeks.

IAMAMORON · 26-10-2020 10:58PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The off licences are next on the hit list. Can't see them getting a clear run for the next few weeks.

Sure go ahead and tell us what you think is going to happen to off licences over the next few weeks, I could do with a giggle.

Before you do though contemplate this.

How much VAT and C&E are the government prepared to forego under your insightful conspiracy?

Can you see Dunnes or Tesco taking that on the chin either?

Richard Hillman · 26-10-2020 11:01PM

MrStuffins wrote: »

What's the motivation to bring down the pubs?

And what's the endgame for them?

They pin all of Irelands health ills on alcohol. From A&E, long term illnesses, mental health and so on.

drunkmonkey · 26-10-2020 11:02PM

It's just the feeling I'm getting, a few people have said it to me in the last few days, there logic is, it's the only thing that can stop house parties.
If the numbers don't drop quick enough they'll need something to blame.

Richard Hillman · 26-10-2020 11:03PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The off licences are next on the hit list. Can't see them getting a clear run for the next few weeks.

I think they know there would be massive violent civil disorder if they did that.

NPHET will push closing off licences but government know that there would be serious trouble if they did.

MrStuffins · 26-10-2020 11:04PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The off licences are next on the hit list. Can't see them getting a clear run for the next few weeks.

What's with all the rent-a-prediction merchants?

See, it's very easy to constantly make paranoid predictions but then completely ignore when they don't come true. Now, I'm not saying they won't be closed. I mean, Dunnes/Tesco have their clothes sections closed.

But how many of the conspiracy theorists were saying that "wet pubs" would never open again and then were very quiet when they did?

MrStuffins · 26-10-2020 11:06PM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

They pin all of Irelands health ills on alcohol. From A&E, long term illnesses, mental health and so on.

Do these arguments hold weight?

drunkmonkey · 26-10-2020 11:09PM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I think they know there would be massive violent civil disorder if they did that.

NPHET will push closing off licences but government know that there would be serious trouble if they did.

I thought there would be civil disorder already, I can't believe we're nodding along and accepting this crazy as reality hence I don't think you'll see much resistance to any further measures NPHET decide.

Dickie10 · 26-10-2020 11:10PM

i dont know its hard to think its that simple, why would they not just ban the sale of alcohol for 6 weeks? but i do find some truth in peoples thoughts on NYPHET going after pubs/nightclubs with a vengenace, do any where else in the world have a drink culture like the British Isles? like surely young people see the fun in it in other places across Europe? like dance music is huge in scandinavia, belgium, holland , so they obviously have nightclubs, do other nationalities descend on Ibiza or Ianaopa the same way British and Irish do? I would imagine you would never get young Irish people to stop going to pubs and nightclubs, but perhaps one way the irish / british pubs differ to Europe is their seems to be a huge mix of age groups in irish pubs , like 17-50 age groups drinking in same establishment in a lot of cases.

Richard Hillman · 26-10-2020 11:11PM

MrStuffins wrote: »

Do these arguments hold weight?

Probably but drinking is part of our culture. We fund our own health services. We choose our society. That's the trade off.

kenmc · 26-10-2020 11:23PM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Going after our drinking culture was always a golden ticket for those at NPHET and the likes of Harris and Varadkar. The €9 Meal thing was to promote the whole European thing of basing drinking around food and to convince us that "you know what? This isn't too bad".

No, no it's not. Once more, from the top.
Restaurants were allowed to open, but not pubs. Many pubs, and the vfi and the lvi representing them then whinged "oh but we serve food too, we're really just restaurants in disguise". So the government let those "restaurants" open too, as restaurants. And the pubs which were not restaurants, stayed shut.

It was the publicans and vintners who suggested opening as restaurants, and thus the need for the substantial meal, not the government - they initially wanted only actual restaurants open.

But sure why let the truth get in the way of a good rant I suppose.

SteM · 26-10-2020 11:34PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The off licences are next on the hit list. Can't see them getting a clear run for the next few weeks.

They were left alone during the first lockdown and weren't touched at the start of this lockdown. No reason to think they'll be shut down now.

Richard Hillman · 26-10-2020 11:39PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I thought there would be civil disorder already, I can't believe we're nodding along and accepting this crazy as reality hence I don't think you'll see much resistance to any further measures NPHET decide.

If they go for a January lockdown, I think things will kick off. I said it in another thread, I have never attended a protest in my life but I'll be out there in January.

I think there will be an extra level on the usual trouble we see on Halloween and then a backlash on the fact that the Garda are too busy manning Checkpoints and checking if Tesco are selling toys and clothes.

HBC08 · 26-10-2020 11:52PM

Lads,seriously can ye get a grip? Some people on here are losing the ability for critical thought (If they ever had any in the first place!)
I can see off license hours being reduced by a couple of hours but there is simply no chance of banning alcohol,It's simply not going to happen,stop panicking.

rubadub · 26-10-2020 11:53PM

christ tonight, we STILL have people feigning ignorance about the the 9 euro meal thing. Fcuking pathetic at this stage.

Still have not heard an answer to my repeated question about why this law below is in existence for pubs (long before covid).

Children aged between 15 and 17 years may remain on the premises after 9pm where they are attending a private function at which a substantial meal is served. All licensed premises must display a sign to this effect in a prominent place at all times and failure to do so can result in a fine.

This continued feigned ignorance about meals is utterly cringeworthy. If it's legit god bless your ignorance, seriously, just think about it for 3 seconds, 3 is all I ask and all it should take.

Dickie10 wrote: »

i dont know its hard to think its that simple, why would they not just ban the sale of alcohol for 6 weeks? .

I am pretty sure you are the poster who asked similar questions before on numerous occasions and were given very sound reasonable answers, if you missed them go back and check.

drunkmonkey · 27-10-2020 12:03AM

HBC08 wrote: »

Lads,seriously can ye get a grip? Some people on here are losing the ability for critical thought (If they ever had any in the first place!)
I can see off license hours being reduced by a couple of hours but there is simply no chance of banning alcohol,It's simply not going to happen,stop panicking.

The majority are pro more restrictions and harder lockdowns. You can't say don't panic while we're pretty much under house arrest at the moment and people want more of it. Anything is possible now, we've created a place where healthy people are a threat to the life of everyone, there's no easy way to stop this going further down the rabbit hole without a proper anti lockdown movement.

ShooterSF · 27-10-2020 12:05AM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Going after our drinking culture was always a golden ticket for those at NPHET and the likes of Harris and Varadkar. The €9 Meal thing was to promote the whole European thing of basing drinking around food and to convince us that "you know what? This isn't too bad".

Tony Holohan is in bed with Alcohol Action Ireland
https://alcoholireland.ie/dr-tony-holohan-chief-medical-officer-delivers-the-opening-address-at-alcohol-action-irelands-have-we-bottled-it-alcohol-marketing-and-young-people-conference/

Ultimately NPHET/Alcohol Action Ireland want as many pubs to go out of business as possible to make it as inconvenient as possible. And of course we are funding Alcohol Action Ireland via the HSE budget to lobby the very government that pays them.

Never heard of Alcohol Action Ireland before and I've worked around the stuff half my life but looking at their site they don't seem like some kind of evil prohibitionist pioneers. There are alcohol issues in this country and it is right that we try and deal with them, that doesn't mean banning the sale of the stuff. Not everyone who thinks we have problems with it are anti-alcohol. I'm not really surprised that a medical professional would have concerns about it either. They list things like sponsorship in sport and concerns re: suicide and pregnancy, which I think are discussions worth having. Heck I really hate serving pregnant women alcohol but at the end of the day it isn't my decision. You can only hope to change their views towards it. I don't agree on things like minimum pricing or restricting sales to shorter hours and other things I have heard from NPHET or other medical professionals but I also don't think they want to end the idea of going to a pub for pints and a good time.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 27-10-2020 12:47AM

If you don't think the government will use this as a way to change the laws surrounding licensed premises then I don't know what to say. If and when the pubs come back a lot of the current rules in place will remain. I wouldn't put it past them to cut opening hours for pubs and nightclubs or hike up the price of a pint.

Never waste a crisis.

stephenjmcd · 27-10-2020 01:05AM

Hunky Monster wrote: »

If you don't think the government will use this as a way to change the laws surrounding licensed premises then I don't know what to say. If and when the pubs come back a lot of the current rules in place will remain. I wouldn't put it past them to cut opening hours for pubs and nightclubs or hike up the price of a pint.

Never waste a crisis.

Well the programme for government actually goes the opposite way with a review of licensing hours with a view to extending them to mimick other European cities in terms of later openings for pubs in general along with driving recovery in the hospitality sector post pandemic. The licencing process and operating hours attached to said licences needs modernisation.

Will it be done ? Who knows we'll see over the next few years.
Open hours cut ? Once restrictions eventually fade away not a chance of that, you'll be back to 12.30 last orders.
The VAT rate has been cut, if theres any hiking it'll be the pub doing that.

hynesie08 · 27-10-2020 01:09AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Well the programme for government actually goes the opposite way with a review of licensing hours with a view to extending them to mimick other European cities in terms of later openings for pubs in general along with driving recovery in the hospitality sector post pandemic. The licencing process and operating hours attached to said licences needs modernisation.

Will it be done ? Who knows we'll see over the next few years.
Open hours cut ? Once restrictions eventually fade away not a chance of that, you'll be back to 12.30 last orders.
The VAT rate has been cut, if theres any hiking it'll be the pub doing that.

Only on food and hot drinks, not alcohol, the price of a pint is going up when pubs eventually open......

stephenjmcd · 27-10-2020 01:16AM

hynesie08 wrote: »

Only on food and hot drinks, not alcohol, the price of a pint is going up when pubs eventually open......

Again that'll be a pubs choice, there's no government increase which was the main reference

Suckit · 27-10-2020 01:19AM

A lot of pubs will probably drop the price to get people in. I am not so sure there will be the rush that some people think there will be.
There will be a rush, but I wouldn't bet on it being as big as initially thought. I also wouldn't bet on all of the barflies/regulars going back to their old spending habits.

Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

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