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Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

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    #8192
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    Roll on super saturday

    Looking like a bonus point win will be are only chance of getting the title (unless in a freak result with Italy beating England, in which a normal win for us is enough)

    The result in the Scotland vs Wales game is irrelevant and England could slaughter Italy and get the BP win. At least we know what we have to do

    Should Italy beat England then a draw will do in Paris. If Italy can concede less than 4 tries or keep England to a 23 point margin or less, then any win will do in Paris.

    The likely result is that England beat Italy by around 40-50 points, meaning we need to beat France by around 8-18 points or get the TBP win.

    France can still win, but in this scenario they would need to beat us by 43-53 points with a TBP.


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    #8193
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    Of the realistic options I would hope of an England win by 30 points or less as it would mean that could still win the title by winning by a manageable margin but would also be enough to put France just out of reach.

    I think if 25+ points is just out of France reach.


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    #8194
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    The Barbarians game getting axed doesn't help their preparation but I think only biblically bad weather would stop England running up a serious score.


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    #8195
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    The Barbarians game getting axed doesn't help their preparation but I think only biblically bad weather would stop England running up a serious score.

    England will kick Italy but its their first game of the season away from against an Italy side who have 80 minutes under their belt already.

    It obviously won’t change what the outcome will be but it could be the difference between England racking up 35-45 points and racking up 20-30 points.


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    #8196
    damianmcr
    Registered Users Posts: 740 ✭✭✭damianmcr


    bilston wrote: »
    I just disagree with this sentiment so strongly.

    Was he perfect? No. Was anyone? No

    Did he drop one high ball? Yes

    The positives outweighed the negatives quite comfortably IMO.

    The clearance kicks were very effective and the running from deep was superb as well.

    I'd 100% be persevering with him there. Come the 2021 6Ns with a run of games behind him I think he will make the position his own.

    I don't know why people get so down on him to be honest.

    If only he played for Leinster he'd be the best in the world.


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    #8197
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    damianmcr wrote: »
    If only he played for Leinster he'd be the best in the world.

    Stop. Just stop. Theres no need for this. The poster questioning Stockdale has been pretty vocally critical of Sexton for some time too. Not everything is provincial. Stop making it so. For everyone else's sake, if not your own.


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    #8198
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,773 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    I wouldnt say it's guaranteed England will beat Italy by 23 points in Rome at all. Is it likely? Sure it is. But the Italians won't roll over at home. It would better of there was a crowd there of course.

    Conversely the lack of a crowd (or are the French still letting in small numbers? Maybe 1,000 max) in Paris should work in our favour as well. It could easily become quite a loose game. France will, in theory, have a chance of the title, albeit they'll need to best us by 2 points more than what England beat Italy, should England get the bonus point win


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    #8199
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    bilston wrote: »
    I wouldnt say it's guaranteed England will beat Italy by 23 points in Rome at all. Is it likely? Sure it is. But the Italians won't roll over at home. It would better of there was a crowd there of course.

    Conversely the lack of a crowd (or are the French still letting in small numbers? Maybe 1,000 max) in Paris should work in our favour as well. It could easily become quite a loose game. France will, in theory, have a chance of the title, albeit they'll need to best us by 2 points more than what England beat Italy, should England get the bonus point win

    They are allowing a crowd but they also have a curfew in place so no one can attend the match anyway. If it was an early kick off they would be allowed.


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    #8200
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,400 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    kingofthekong wrote: »
    Murray was the 3rd best Irish scrum half today, Jgp speeds up everything Ireland do, his pass is far more powerful which reaches the man faster, his decision making his faster and he offers a sniping threat that Murray no longer does

    Murray was comfortably one of our better performers today, along with our entire back-row and Keenan. This just seems way off the mark, to me.


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    #8201
    jacothelad
    Registered Users Posts: 5,922 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    So Ringrose is out and Earls was training with the squad today.

    Well it's obvious isn't it? Earls at 13 against France.


    It's not like you to give up on the win so easily.....:D:D:D:D:D


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    #8202
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,773 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    If Earls is available, I would guess he will move to No.23 with Henshaw coming in at 13.

    Interesting Heffernen came on so early, I suppose he has a chance to start, although I thought Herring played perfectly well.

    Other than that it will probably be as you were.


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    #8203
    sioda
    Registered Users Posts: 4,477 ✭✭✭sioda


    Could we see Chris Farrell get called up leaving Henshaw on the bench as cover?


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    #8204
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,536 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Has anyone else noticed the distinct lack of articles relating to the debut of JGP?

    Just to be clear, I have an issue with it, but is there a reason that Jean Kleyn garnered so much attention on his promotion to the team and many other players before him also but it seems to have been missing in the build up to this?

    Have journos like Franno actually matured?

    I could be wrong of course, because I haven’t read an article from any of the rugby hacks in a long time.


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    #8205
    OneLungDavy
    Registered Users Posts: 367 ✭✭OneLungDavy


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    Has anyone else noticed the distinct lack of articles relating to the debut of JGP?

    Just to be clear, I have an issue with it, but is there a reason that Jean Kleyn garnered so much attention on his promotion to the team and many other players before him also but it seems to have been missing in the build up to this?

    Have journos like Franno actually matured?

    I could be wrong of course, because I haven’t read an article from any of the rugby hacks in a long time.


    I think everyone is just bored of the whole conversation, journos included. We should be too so lets put it to bed.


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    #8206
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    Has anyone else noticed the distinct lack of articles relating to the debut of JGP?

    Just to be clear, I have an issue with it, but is there a reason that Jean Kleyn garnered so much attention on his promotion to the team and many other players before him also but it seems to have been missing in the build up to this?

    Have journos like Franno actually matured?

    I could be wrong of course, because I haven’t read an article from any of the rugby hacks in a long time.

    I think most people are satisfied with the move to 5 years (despite it being delayed) as it removes the cynicism from the process.

    I don't mind someone coming here and earning the right to play but I wasn't in favour of the IRFU travelling the world to find people who would come to Ireland on the promise of a potential call up to international level.

    The move to 5 years remedies this (for me anyway) and has perhaps contributed to the lack of contention around the issue.


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    #8207
    OneLungDavy
    Registered Users Posts: 367 ✭✭OneLungDavy


    aloooof wrote: »
    Murray was comfortably one of our better performers today, along with our entire back-row and Keenan. This just seems way off the mark, to me.


    He had that post cemented in mind as soon as Ringrose went into scrum-half.


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    #8208
    VANG1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 222 ✭✭VANG1


    Le Roux could be banned for elbow in the face of AWJ. very nasty cheap shot.


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    #8209
    PhlegmyMoses
    Registered Users Posts: 11,906 ✭✭✭✭PhlegmyMoses


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I think most people are satisfied with the move to 5 years (despite it being delayed) as it removes the cynicism from the process.

    I don't mind someone coming here and earning the right to play but I wasn't in favour of the IRFU travelling the world to find people who would come to Ireland on the promise of a potential call up to international level.

    The move to 5 years remedies this (for me anyway) and has perhaps contributed to the lack of contention around the issue.

    I think that the perception that Kleyn replaced an Irish stalwart in what was likely his last World Cup added a bit of extra outrage to the piece as well so the press could get more mileage out of it. It's contextually different this time even without the 5 year rule change, as we arent exactly flush with talented 9s ready to shout in at international level at the moment


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    #8210
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,197 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    VANG1 wrote: »
    Le Roux could be banned for elbow in the face of AWJ. very nasty cheap shot.

    He might get a ban but it's far from clear cut. Drove him back onto the ground and made contact with the face with his elbow. I'd say he was landing a cheap shot but is it clear enough to result in a ban? I wouldn't be too sure.


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    #8211
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,536 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I think most people are satisfied with the move to 5 years (despite it being delayed) as it removes the cynicism from the process.

    I don't mind someone coming here and earning the right to play but I wasn't in favour of the IRFU travelling the world to find people who would come to Ireland on the promise of a potential call up to international level.

    The move to 5 years remedies this (for me anyway) and has perhaps contributed to the lack of contention around the issue.



    I had no issue with the old rules, and have none with the new rules.

    It’s the change in 12 months from having a massive amount of articles about Kleyn to now absolutely none that I find contradictory from the media.


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    #8212
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,536 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    PhlegmyMoses wrote: »
    I think that the perception that Kleyn replaced an Irish stalwart in what was likely his last World Cup added a bit of extra outrage to the piece as well so the press could get more mileage out of it. It's contextually different this time even without the 5 year rule change, as we arent exactly flush with talented 9s ready to shout in at international level at the moment

    Outrage could also be levelled that a non Irish player has taken the place of SH’s who are starting for their province, players who have played for Ireland at underage up along.

    Let me be clear, because some people need it spelled out, I’ve no issue with JGP being given his shot, and he needs to be tied down as well, but the hypocrisy of the media in making a massive issue out of something a year ago that isn’t given any reference this year Is laughable.

    While you mention perception it can be perceived that Kleyn over toner was an issue because it was a Munster player over a Leinster player, but that doesn’t exist in this case because it’s a leinster player over a Connacht player or a leinster player over a Munster player, and also a leinster player over a leinster player.


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    #8213
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,197 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    I had no issue with the old rules, and have none with the new rules.

    It’s the change in 12 months from having a massive amount of articles about Kleyn to now absolutely none that I find contradictory from the media.

    How many was a massive amount?

    I recall Francis who most realise is a waster. Anything else I remember was more concentrated on the fact that Kleyn was selected ahead of far more established options and wasn't deserving of that.


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    #8214
    kingofthekong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭kingofthekong


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    Outrage could also be levelled that a non Irish player has taken the place of SH’s who are starting for their province, players who have played for Ireland at underage up along.

    Let me be clear, because some people need it spelled out, I’ve no issue with JGP being given his shot, and he needs to be tied down as well, but the hypocrisy of the media in making a massive issue out of something a year ago that isn’t given any reference this year Is laughable.

    While you mention perception it can be perceived that Kleyn over toner was an issue because it was a Munster player over a Leinster player, but that doesn’t exist in this case because it’s a leinster player over a Connacht player or a leinster player over a Munster player, and also a leinster player over a leinster player.

    The media do this all the time in other walks aswell, I have very little respect for any media source these days as they all have their agendas


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    #8215
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,536 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Buer wrote: »
    How many was a massive amount?

    I recall Francis who most realise is a waster. Anything else I remember was more concentrated on the fact that Kleyn was selected ahead of far more established options and wasn't deserving of that.

    The selection of Kleyn received a lot of paper and airtime.
    An Embarrassing amount of it tbh, now some of that might have been attributed to the fact the RWc is allocated more coverage that needs to be filled as opposed to a reorganized out of sorts 6N game against the minnows, but it still doesn’t explain the change in coverage.



    and even franno himself knows he’s a waster.


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    #8216
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,197 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    The selection of Kleyn received a lot of paper and airtime.
    An Embarrassing amount of it tbh, now some of that might have been attributed to the fact the RWc is allocated more coverage that needs to be filled as opposed to a reorganized out of sorts 6N game against the minnows, but it still doesn’t explain the change in coverage.

    Well, actually it does explain the change in coverage. Of course it does. Huge focus on a tournament which is being intensely reported on versus a home game against Italy in front of an empty stadium 6 months after it was scheduled.

    And I still don't recall a massive amount specifically focused on Kleyn being capped as opposed to him being selected ahead of players that many perceived as better. They're not the same thing.


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    #8217
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,536 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Buer wrote: »
    Well, actually it does explain the change in coverage. Of course it does. Huge focus on a tournament which is being intensely reported on versus a home game against Italy in front of an empty stadium 6 months after it was scheduled.

    And I still don't recall a massive amount specifically focused on Kleyn being capped as opposed to him being selected ahead of players that many perceived as better. They're not the same thing.

    It doesn’t, because other player have received the same level of attention when it wasn’t a World Cup year.


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    #8218
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,283 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Making an issue out of the fact that there is no issue.


    That's a new one on me, I must admit.


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    #8219
    Clegg
    Registered Users Posts: 16,943 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    The only problem I had with Kleyn's selection is the fact that he's not actually that good.


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    #8220
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Kleyn was called up just weeks out from the World Cup having not earned a shot and made the plane, not long after being qualified.

    JGP earned his shot almost a year after qualifying through good performances and playing better than previous incumbents in McGrath, Marmion and Cooney.

    There’s the difference. There was genuine outrage over Kleyn because there was nothing to suggest he had earned a place in the Rugby World Cup. JGP had to actually work to earn his chance.

    You can bitch and moan about the media not covering it all you want but this is why. Kleyn going to the World Cup was a baffling call at the time, JGP playing back-up to Murray isn’t.


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    #8221
    PhlegmyMoses
    Registered Users Posts: 11,906 ✭✭✭✭PhlegmyMoses


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    Outrage could also be levelled that a non Irish player has taken the place of SH’s who are starting for their province, players who have played for Ireland at underage up along.

    Let me be clear, because some people need it spelled out, I’ve no issue with JGP being given his shot, and he needs to be tied down as well, but the hypocrisy of the media in making a massive issue out of something a year ago that isn’t given any reference this year Is laughable.

    While you mention perception it can be perceived that Kleyn over toner was an issue because it was a Munster player over a Leinster player, but that doesn’t exist in this case because it’s a leinster player over a Connacht player or a leinster player over a Munster player, and also a leinster player over a leinster player.

    Oh. You're going down some weird provincial bias route. Count me out of any and all future discussion please. I wish to unsubscribe from your news letter.


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