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Schools closed until February? (part 3)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,667 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    duffysfarm wrote: »
    Dont know if this is correct thread to ask question but here goes . I have kid in local national school. Got email from school to say child in his class tested positive monday of last week (5 October). There were no instructions as to what to do with child at this stage from school or hse. my kid went in on tuesday and class was sent home tuesday morning by hse. Class was tested on Wednesday and results on Thursday and there was one more positive case. Got an email today from school with copy of letter from hse to say my kid will have to have a second test due to a health risk assessment. If he has test next Tuesday lets say, according to the hse website he has to isolate for 10 days even if nagative. Is that correct? Also it would seem mad to test him next week when it would have been more than 14 days since he was in school and contact with a positive case at school. Also if we don't test him can the school refuse him entry on Monday week after mid term?

    Does the school have a return to school form?

    Should have been introduced under the guidelines.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,667 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Thats me wrote: »
    In given circumstances there is no reason to consider that sanitiser at all. It is just incomparable issues - someone could potentially feel some irritation from sanitiser (or what is true reason? was it ever disclosed?) and spreading COVID trough the schools which were still opened during Level 5. I would not be surprised if this recall of sanitiser by _unknown reason_ is the effort to divert attention from main issue. We saw here bots posting non-relevant "responses" recently in this thread, we see this widely promoted sanitizergate issue. All of this is to hide the main issue - there is no sane reasons to keep schools open during Level 5. Why? Few idiots decided this will help to exploit homeworkers more effectively.

    Yes, there is plenty of reason to keep schools open. Education is a vital and essential service. So long as schools are not promoters of transmission, they are relatively low-risk environments.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 639 ✭✭✭Thats me


    duffysfarm wrote: »
    Dont know if this is correct thread to ask question but here goes . I have kid in local national school. Got email from school to say child in his class tested positive monday of last week (5 October). There were no instructions as to what to do with child at this stage from school or hse. my kid went in on tuesday and class was sent home tuesday morning by hse. Class was tested on Wednesday and results on Thursday and there was one more positive case. Got an email today from school with copy of letter from hse to say my kid will have to have a second test due to a health risk assessment. If he has test next Tuesday lets say, according to the hse website he has to isolate for 10 days even if nagative. Is that correct? Also it would seem mad to test him next week when it would have been more than 14 days since he was in school and contact with a positive case at school. Also if we don't test him can the school refuse him entry on Monday week after mid term?


    I cannot say anything about legal side of the question, but second test is good idea. If it happen to be positive case - it is better to stop it on earlier stage. In the child COVID is low risk, but it is. Do your best to protect them.



    Also, I _hope_ there will no entries after mid-term until L5 revoked.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 639 ✭✭✭Thats me


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Yes, there is plenty of reason to keep schools open. Education is a vital and essential service. So long as schools are not promoters of transmission, they are relatively low-risk environments.


    Just LOL :cool:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Smacruairi


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Yes, there is plenty of reason to keep schools open. Education is a vital and essential service. So long as schools are not promoters of transmission, they are relatively low-risk environments.

    https://www.tes.com/news/schools-linked-large-increase-covid-r-number

    You couldn't interpret the article correctly the first time, maybe you might be OK the second time around.

    "The reopening of schools was associated with a "large" increase in the R number, according to new research published in the Lancet"

    "The researchers also said that some of the greatest effects on R were seen for measures that were more easily implementable by law, like school reopening and introduction of a public events ban".


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 639 ✭✭✭Thats me


    Smacruairi wrote: »
    https://www.tes.com/news/schools-linked-large-increase-covid-r-number

    You couldn't interpret the article correctly the first time, maybe you might be OK the second time around.

    "The reopening of schools was associated with a "large" increase in the R number, according to new research published in the Lancet"

    "The researchers also said that some of the greatest effects on R were seen for measures that were more easily implementable by law, like school reopening and introduction of a public events ban".


    I think you are feeding a troll..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Smacruairi


    Thats me wrote: »
    I think you are feeding a troll..

    Perhaps, but a troll supported by several others I have dissected in their opinions. I find it handy to keep the really easy rebuttals close to the top of the page.

    Like this chancer who Lancet has disproven. Like the time Lillyfae suggested classes be held outside in the rain then tried to back track. Like the time raind suggested Dublin was under control in level 3, then go tobann a massive increase and the highest numbers ever. Like thst bloke who had a fetish for marquees but couldn't design a classroom that contained kids who were 3 dimensional etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 639 ✭✭✭Thats me


    Smacruairi wrote: »
    Perhaps, but a troll supported by several others I have dissected in their opinions. I find it handy to keep the really easy rebuttals close to the top of the page.


    Good idea! ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,465 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Smacruairi wrote: »
    Perhaps, but a troll supported by several others I have dissected in their opinions. I find it handy to keep the really easy rebuttals close to the top of the page.

    Like this chancer who Lancet has disproven. Like the time Lillyfae suggested classes be held outside in the rain then tried to back track. Like the time raind suggested Dublin was under control in level 3, then go tobann a massive increase and the highest numbers ever. Like thst bloke who had a fetish for marquees but couldn't design a classroom that contained kids who were 3 dimensional etc.

    Ahh the good old days.....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Smacruairi


    Ahh the good old days.....

    Every time I think I'm out, they pull me back in. Its good trolling if it is trolling, to be fair!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 639 ✭✭✭Thats me


    Smacruairi wrote: »
    Every time I think I'm out, they pull me back in. Its good trolling if it is trolling, to be fair!


    Good trolling is no trolling. Good troll is dead troll. This thread is read by 137343 readers. If all of us spent only 1 second to read the single bull..it post - it costs 2289.05 minutes or 38.15 hours of human life in total.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 82 ✭✭Jucifer


    The instructions are/were that "young" children should not have "independent" use of alcohol based gels. Once supervised the use of alcohol gels is/was encouraged in situations where continuous hand washing wasn't practical/feasible.

    The departments take on "young" appears to be JI-2nd class.

    The instructions weren't children only be provided alcohol free sanitiser as you claim.

    It was also recommended that young children not bring their own sanitiser into school.

    Alcohol free sanitisers are widely accepted as being effectively useless in combating covid.

    Fair enough. Apologies for misinformation. I am not a teacher and was going on knowledge of how one school applied the instructions. I will refrain from making uninformed commentary in future.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 639 ✭✭✭Thats me


    Jucifer wrote: »
    I will refrain from making uninformed commentary in future.


    Please _do_ uninformed commentary. Everybody understand this is is a picture what you see from your position. But we will have no complete picture with no individual comments.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 82 ✭✭Jucifer


    Ya it is pretty much a non issue to be honest but if a poster appears to be posting incorrect statements and in doing so is trying to apportion blame to schools for this situation they should be pulled up on it.

    Sorry I replied to your earlier post just now before seeing this one. I was not trying to apportion blame on schools at all. My point was that I thought students would not be affected at all because I mistakenly thought that the sanitiser was only for use by teachers. I admit I am likely incorrect but you are misrepresenting my point.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 639 ✭✭✭Thats me


    Jucifer wrote: »
    Sorry I replied to your earlier post just now before seeing this one. I was not trying to apportion blame on schools at all. My point was that I thought students would not be affected at all because I mistakenly thought that the sanitiser was only for use by teachers. I admit I am likely incorrect but you are misrepresenting my point.
    Who cares about hand sanitiser when this plague is spread by air... :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,204 ✭✭✭political analyst


    This is the interview with Tony Holohan on the Late Late Show. As of now, it is available on the Player for 30 days.

    https://www.rte.ie/player/series/the-late-late-show/SI0000001694?extraguid=PI000016213

    17 minutes and 30 seconds into this recording of the interview, Holohan said he doesn't envisage schools staying closed after this mid-term break. He said the cases that have arisen in schools involved the virus being brought in by some pupils - as opposed to a school being the point-of-origin of an outbreak - and that close contacts of those pupils in schools are less likely to be infected than close contacts of those pupils in the community. Presumably, the wearing of masks, sufficient air-conditioning, the use of hand-sanitisers and the use of school discipline mean that Covid clusters are much less likely to occur in schools than in the community.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,156 ✭✭✭selectamatic


    Jucifer wrote: »
    Fair enough. Apologies for misinformation. I am not a teacher and was going on knowledge of how one school applied the instructions. I will refrain from making uninformed commentary in future.

    Jucifer wrote: »
    Sorry I replied to your earlier post just now before seeing this one. I was not trying to apportion blame on schools at all. My point was that I thought students would not be affected at all because I mistakenly thought that the sanitiser was only for use by teachers. I admit I am likely incorrect but you are misrepresenting my point.

    It did kinda read like blame was being put on the school but since that wasn't your intention I am very sorry for making a big deal out of it. Nearly anytime I post here I'm on the defensive I'll try and keep things more civil in future. The fact you've accepted a mistake speaks volumes for ya as a poster.

    Apologies for being so abrupt initially.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭utmbuilder


    The teachers have gotten no support they are the heroes with nurses in this Teachers in secondary should of been given 2 air purifiers to a room, breaks to change masks or to breath clearly outdoors. Along with smaller classes.

    15 minute testing surely is developed at this stage.

    The government being able to force us to send teachers and our children into such an area of risk day after day is really dangerous territory to be in.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,539 ✭✭✭Icyseanfitz


    This is the interview with Tony Holohan on the Late Late Show. As of now, it is available on the Player for 30 days.

    https://www.rte.ie/player/series/the-late-late-show/SI0000001694?extraguid=PI000016213

    17 minutes and 30 seconds into this recording of the interview, Holohan said he doesn't envisage schools staying closed after this mid-term break. He said the cases that have arisen in schools involved the virus being brought in by some pupils - as opposed to a school being the point-of-origin of an outbreak - and that close contacts of those pupils in schools are less likely to be infected than close contacts of those pupils in the community. Presumably, the wearing of masks, sufficient air-conditioning, the use of hand-sanitisers and the use of school discipline mean that Covid clusters are much less likely to occur in schools than in the community.

    Isn't it amazing how our government and nphet seem to have an absolutely unshakable and unquestionable faith that schools are and will stay 100% safe, with a virus we know very little about. Poor kids are guinea pigs at this stage.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 245 ✭✭MelbourneMan


    utmbuilder wrote: »
    The teachers have gotten no support they are the heroes with nurses in this Teachers in secondary should of been given 2 air purifiers to a room, breaks to change masks or to breath clearly outdoors. Along with smaller classes.

    15 minute testing surely is developed at this stage.

    The government being able to force us to send teachers and our children into such an area of risk day after day is really dangerous territory to be in.

    The lack of support for teachers is an unfortunate consequence of their past attitudes and actions, and presents a very particular problem in the context of engagement and handling this difficult virus situation.

    The teachers unions, without getting into the argument of whether it is true today or not - the reality is that they have painted themselves into a corner of being regarded as militant, unreasonable, and exploitative of any situation - are sadly in a position of having no credibility of being capable of engaging for the greater good of students, society, and even their own safety.

    This makes it very difficult both for the departments of education, health, the government to have constructive dialogue with teachers, and, for any wider sympathy for the difficulties of teaching with the current risks. The good efforts and concerns raised by by many genuinely well motivated teachers and principals is lost in this context, and their voices muted through the problematic structures of their unions.

    The government is very sympathetic to the complexities the current policy of maintaining open schools presents, but is hamstrung by the disfunctional structures and legacies of these unions, and sub-optimal outcomes in handling the corona issues on this front now result.


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  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,552 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook



    The government is very sympathetic to the complexities the current policy of maintaining open schools presents, but is hamstrung by the disfunctional structures and legacies of these unions, and sub-optimal outcomes in handling the corona issues on this front now result.

    Is that you Leo? The govt is NOT sympathetic. The govt. knew about the hand san issue on Tuesday and emailed school principals at 10.30 on Thursday night , saying that the school could close the following morning .
    They willingly deny aerosol transmission and keep pushing the “ schools are safe “ mantra .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,587 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    The lack of support for teachers is an unfortunate consequence of their past attitudes and actions, and presents a very particular problem in the context of engagement and handling this difficult virus situation.

    The teachers unions, without getting into the argument of whether it is true today or not - the reality is that they have painted themselves into a corner of being regarded as militant, unreasonable, and exploitative of any situation - are sadly in a position of having no credibility of being capable of engaging for the greater good of students, society, and even their own safety.

    This makes it very difficult both for the departments of education, health, the government to have constructive dialogue with teachers, and, for any wider sympathy for the difficulties of teaching with the current risks. The good efforts and concerns raised by by many genuinely well motivated teachers and principals is lost in this context, and their voices muted through the problematic structures of their unions.

    The government is very sympathetic to the complexities the current policy of maintaining open schools presents, but is hamstrung by the disfunctional structures and legacies of these unions, and sub-optimal outcomes in handling the corona issues on this front now result.

    Norma?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,218 ✭✭✭khalessi


    The lack of support for teachers is an unfortunate consequence of their past attitudes and actions, and presents a very particular problem in the context of engagement and handling this difficult virus situation.

    The teachers unions, without getting into the argument of whether it is true today or not - the reality is that they have painted themselves into a corner of being regarded as militant, unreasonable, and exploitative of any situation - are sadly in a position of having no credibility of being capable of engaging for the greater good of students, society, and even their own safety.

    This makes it very difficult both for the departments of education, health, the government to have constructive dialogue with teachers, and, for any wider sympathy for the difficulties of teaching with the current risks. The good efforts and concerns raised by by many genuinely well motivated teachers and principals is lost in this context, and their voices muted through the problematic structures of their unions.

    The government is very sympathetic to the complexities the current policy of maintaining open schools presents, but is hamstrung by the disfunctional structures and legacies of these unions, and sub-optimal outcomes in handling the corona issues on this front now result.

    Incorrect


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    Schools were told there would be “ enhanced protection/measures “ at level 5 , yet nothing has been issued . Parents , please be aware of this .

    Why would they say that, if according to Tony Holohan, the below is already true.
    It doesn't make any sense and they expect us to swallow that?
    This is the interview with Tony Holohan on the Late Late Show. As of now, it is available on the Player for 30 days.

    https://www.rte.ie/player/series/the-late-late-show/SI0000001694?extraguid=PI000016213

    17 minutes and 30 seconds into this recording of the interview, Holohan said he doesn't envisage schools staying closed after this mid-term break. He said the cases that have arisen in schools involved the virus being brought in by some pupils - as opposed to a school being the point-of-origin of an outbreak - and that close contacts of those pupils in schools are less likely to be infected than close contacts of those pupils in the community. Presumably, the wearing of masks, sufficient air-conditioning, the use of hand-sanitisers and the use of school discipline mean that Covid clusters are much less likely to occur in schools than in the community.

    So at least 30 cases in one school alone in Gorey but it's not a point-of-origin outbreak? Okay.....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 105 ✭✭8k71ps


    The lack of support for teachers is an unfortunate consequence of their past attitudes and actions, and presents a very particular problem in the context of engagement and handling this difficult virus situation.

    The teachers unions, without getting into the argument of whether it is true today or not - the reality is that they have painted themselves into a corner of being regarded as militant, unreasonable, and exploitative of any situation - are sadly in a position of having no credibility of being capable of engaging for the greater good of students, society, and even their own safety.

    This makes it very difficult both for the departments of education, health, the government to have constructive dialogue with teachers, and, for any wider sympathy for the difficulties of teaching with the current risks. The good efforts and concerns raised by by many genuinely well motivated teachers and principals is lost in this context, and their voices muted through the problematic structures of their unions.

    The government is very sympathetic to the complexities the current policy of maintaining open schools presents, but is hamstrung by the disfunctional structures and legacies of these unions, and sub-optimal outcomes in handling the corona issues on this front now result.

    It is not the fault of the unions for bringing teachers back with no support, schools with broken contact tracing and students without remote learning. Obviously the unions aren't particularly great but blaming them for all of this is absolutely ridiculous. It's the government and state that ought to be blamed.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    The lack of support for teachers is an unfortunate consequence of their past attitudes and actions, and presents a very particular problem in the context of engagement and handling this difficult virus situation.

    The teachers unions, without getting into the argument of whether it is true today or not - the reality is that they have painted themselves into a corner of being regarded as militant, unreasonable, and exploitative of any situation - are sadly in a position of having no credibility of being capable of engaging for the greater good of students, society, and even their own safety.

    This makes it very difficult both for the departments of education, health, the government to have constructive dialogue with teachers, and, for any wider sympathy for the difficulties of teaching with the current risks. The good efforts and concerns raised by by many genuinely well motivated teachers and principals is lost in this context, and their voices muted through the problematic structures of their unions.

    The government is very sympathetic to the complexities the current policy of maintaining open schools presents, but is hamstrung by the disfunctional structures and legacies of these unions, and sub-optimal outcomes in handling the corona issues on this front now result.

    Could you stir the shít any harder? None of that is true.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,465 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    The lack of support for teachers is an unfortunate consequence of their past attitudes and actions, and presents a very particular problem in the context of engagement and handling this difficult virus situation.

    The teachers unions, without getting into the argument of whether it is true today or not - the reality is that they have painted themselves into a corner of being regarded as militant, unreasonable, and exploitative of any situation - are sadly in a position of having no credibility of being capable of engaging for the greater good of students, society, and even their own safety.

    This makes it very difficult both for the departments of education, health, the government to have constructive dialogue with teachers, and, for any wider sympathy for the difficulties of teaching with the current risks. The good efforts and concerns raised by by many genuinely well motivated teachers and principals is lost in this context, and their voices muted through the problematic structures of their unions.

    The government is very sympathetic to the complexities the current policy of maintaining open schools presents, but is hamstrung by the disfunctional structures and legacies of these unions, and sub-optimal outcomes in handling the corona issues on this front now result.

    This reads like a government press release. We don't like you so we'll make everyone in school community suffer to appease some perceived distant slight. Parents please be aware that this possibly is the attitude of the department/government.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    Ha, if you've got a few minutes to amuse yourself this morning, go back and look at Melbourne Man's previous posts on this site. They read like a government official. Lol. He seems to be referring to himself as "we" in a few places when referencing government policy. Wow....


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    Check out this response from MelbourneMan on the 11th of Oct:
    Originally Posted by Ginger n Lemon View Post
    You know, there is a chance that virus spreads in the households and indeed not restaurants or pubs. In light of this, keeping restaurants opened would actually reduce the spread.


    I am an authority on this matter.

    A lot of people are making the mistake of simplifying transmission to a single stage. To understand the various contributions of the various societal interractions for virus transmission, the household ones must effectively be excluded.

    In practice, they cannot be stopped. Intrahoushold isolation is effectively impossible. And transmission must be understood as a two stage process - transmission outside the household, and then within it. Taken in isolation, any single external interface - pubs, worksplace, schools, shops, etc, have an ostensibly low transmission rate. Giving those who dont really understand what they are talking about, seemingly statisitical justification for their contention thant environment X is hardly at all contributing to the propagation. They state pubs arent, international travel isnt, schools arent, small crowds at sports fixtures arent, etc. But the reality is that they are. And why the non essential - unfortunately therefore the fun things in life - must be shutdown. Its mistaken to regard a single transmission in a sports club as insignificantly small in the overall view. But that single external transmission propagates to 2-6 cases in the home. Then just one of them in an external case of the workplace or visiting of another home. And so on

    We cannot close down homes. The chain of transmission must be broken outside it.





    Then to speak about our teachers like that? WTF.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    This reads like a government press release. We don't like you so we'll make everyone in school community suffer to appease some perceived distant slight. Parents please be aware that this possibly is the attitude of the department/government.

    I actually can't believe that just happened.


This discussion has been closed.
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