Covid 19 Part XXVII- 62,002 ROI (1,915 deaths) 39,609 NI (724 deaths) (02/11) Read OP

circadian · 22-10-2020 01:44PM

Hector Savage wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-india-54630863

Good to see them busy as ever in hospitals, and yes I am aware this is in India but there are countless videos from the UK of doctors and nurses pouncing about making tick tock videos ...

I'm failing to see the problem. Care to elaborate?

polesheep · 22-10-2020 01:45PM

Turtwig wrote: »

George is the RTÉ science correspondent and I really really REAALLY don't like the way he reports on certain stuff. That said, the job of the journalist is not to ask tough questions for the sake of being tough. It's to ask the questions to investigate and determine the value of truth to something. His conclusion whether we agree with it or not may just be that the system is over pressured. In which case he's perfectly entitled to opine that remark.

Side note : by him sticking up publicly for the tracing teams they'll be more amendable to providing him future info and feedback than if he publicly lynched them.

No, his opinion is irrelevant. He should be reporting that the HSE state that they are under pressure. He should be impartial and objective. He is clearly neither.

JimToken · 22-10-2020 01:49PM

Got this stopped this morning

Told garda i was calling to the pharmacy for a health product on my way to the graveyard

Got waved on

JDD · 22-10-2020 01:50PM

Do you think that everyone who went to the shops between July and yesterday drove there, popped in for five minutes, picked what they wanted and drove home?

Pre-covid, I would have got on a full Luas and headed to the shops in Dundrum Town Centre. No masks, no standing back from people except where politeness dictates. I'd meet friends, eat in a cafe etc etc.

Post covid, but pre-masks, well Dundrum Town Centre was closed. But applying what it was like in my local supermarket, it was like playing a pinball machine game. Constantly vigilant about how close you might be standing to someone who might be behind or beside you, not going down an aisle that looked too full, weaving in and out around the supermarket before getting the fluck out of there as it was such a pain in the *ss. I'm not hypochondriac or am overestimating the risk of getting covid, but I didn't want to get it, I knew there were infections in my area, I knew the disease was airborne and it just felt like you were taking a big risk by being in there any longer than you had to be.

Post mask was a lot easier. I'm not saying I suddenly crowded everyone, or didn't weave a bit, but it felt like there was probably a lot less of the virus circulating in the air. And the science does bear that out. Cloth masks don't filter out coronavirus particles contained in aerosol droplets, that's true. But they do filter out breathing out large droplets that you may breath in if you are closer that 2m to someone.

That being said, it's not like I was exposing myself to zero risk. I took the luas to Dundrum, touched common surfaces, brought my kids to McDonalds, wandered in and out of lots of shops, met my mother for lunch (outside), stood in queues, picked up books to read the back, and probably wandered through lots of coronavirus aerosol clouds, just not enough to get infected. No way would I have felt comfortable to do that without everyone wearing masks.

Summary: Even with masks, shopping is not zero risk. And with high community transmission, even with masks, the risk is higher. It is not only the act of buying a product, it's travelling there and back, browsing, bringing unmasked children and providing an opportunity for further social contact that makes it necessary to close retail.

polesheep · 22-10-2020 01:51PM

1641 wrote: »

Sorry if posted already but it is sickening that so many people are just refusing to cooperate with contact tracing:

"Individual calls are taking three and four times as long as they should, because the traced are arguing the toss with their HSE trackers.
And it’s all down to patient privacy and GDPR, that unparalleled refuge of the jobsworth and busybody.
The EU’s data protection regulation, coupled with medical confidentiality, prevents the HSE from identifying the person who has developed Covid when they call close contacts.
This leads to those being called demanding to know who ‘Patient X’ may be, and launching into long rationales about why they need to know the name – so they can form their own judgement about how extensive their contact with that person has been.
The callers then reply that they can’t discuss or disclose the name, but would like you to make an appointment with a GP for a test, and did we mention that you should already be self-isolating?
Very few, however, want to immediately shut down their lives on the basis of an anonymous say-so, so the argument – and bargaining – rages over the phone.
It’s resulting in people declining to co-operate with the recommendation, and going about their business as usual – yet the associate is still marked as having been traced, even if zero benefit to that person or the rest of society comes from it.
But it is also massively extending the duration of phone calls, meaning fewer can be fitted into the working day.
With 400 people at work on tracing, and even 1,000 people testing positive on a given day, and these having five close contracts apiece, the numbers come to 5,000 divided by 400, or just over 12 calls to be made daily. Even if it were twice that number, or even four times that number, it should be manageable in an eight-hour day, should it not?
But no. Calls are long, and their argumentative or even intemperate nature may be feeding into people not wanting to work in tracing, with all the compounding problems that creates.
Many OTs (occupational therapists), physios and others drafted in from the general health service at the height of the crisis have been just gagging to get back to their original jobs, and were out the door as soon as non-Covid treatment began to be restored."
https://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/how-perfect-storm-of-patient-privacy-long-phone-calls-and-recruitment-issues-is-causing-our-contact-tracing-system-to-fail-39652227.html

Actually I find it quite shocking that people are being asked to put their lives on hold and possibly their income too, without being able to confirm for themselves that it is, in fact, necessary.

manniot2 · 22-10-2020 01:51PM

JimToken wrote: »

Got this stopped this morning

Told garda i was calling to the pharmacy for a health product on my way to the graveyard

Got waved on

very elaborate. why didnt you just say graveyard?

yawhat? · 22-10-2020 01:52PM

polesheep wrote: »

No, his opinion is irrelevant. He should be reporting that the HSE state that they are under pressure. He should be impartial and objective. He is clearly neither.

What if he knows that they are not under pressure, and that the HSE are lying. Should he keep that to himself?

sheepsh4gger · 22-10-2020 01:52PM

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/shocking-footage-shows-massive-grafton-22886676

Where is Alek when you need him

polesheep · 22-10-2020 01:52PM

is_that_so wrote: »

Yeah, HSE person was telling me of the abuse their contact tracers have had.

That's not surprising when they are not able to confirm to the person that they are calling where or when the contact took place.

Nermal · 22-10-2020 01:53PM

circadian wrote: »

I'm failing to see the problem. Care to elaborate?

If you support the suppression policy (I don't), doctors dancing around on TikTok is a sign your restrictions are too severe. You should be attempting to find equilibrium at the minimum set of restrictions that maximise the use of all available medical capacity.

Turtwig · 22-10-2020 01:53PM

manniot2 wrote: »

A key principle of journalism should be scepticism. Especially when dealing with the establishment. Lee is a lap god for Tony.

Sceptism does not necessarily mean adopting a contradictory position. It's a means of rational inquiry. It can involve asking questions. There is however no requirement that these questions adopt a polarised position from the outset. I'd much rather a journalist to ruminate, investigate and enquire than just ask tough questions to placate our desire for perceived "tough" questions.

froog · 22-10-2020 01:54PM

i haven't seen the nursing home plans rolled out after the first time around, but anything short of a complete "bubble" set up would not be fit for purpose.

i.e. the carers basically live in the nursing home or else live at home but have zero social contacts. and tested as regularly as possible on a high priority list. absolute highest level of PPE.

Boggles · 22-10-2020 01:55PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Wear a mask, doesn't matter how, just wear one. Fit in. Masks help. :rolleyes:

Is it true you are pretending to have a mental illness so you don't have to wear a mask on the bus?

JimToken · 22-10-2020 01:55PM

manniot2 wrote: »

very elaborate. why didnt you just say graveyard?

What are the valid excuses for traveling outside 5km

polesheep · 22-10-2020 01:56PM

is_that_so wrote: »

Poster with SOHF on Day 1 of Level 5!

Are you saying that I missed something? I'm not used to the subtleties of twitter.

polesheep · 22-10-2020 01:57PM

JimToken wrote: »

Got this stopped this morning

Told garda i was calling to the pharmacy for a health product on my way to the graveyard

Got waved on

You obviously didn't have much confidence in the health product.;)

22-10-2020 01:58PM

polesheep wrote: »

Actually I find it quite shocking that people are being asked to put their lives on hold and possibly their income too, without being able to confirm for themselves that it is, in fact, necessary.

polesheep wrote: »

That's not surprising when they are not able to confirm to the person that they are calling where or when the contact took place.

That would require the tracers to

1 Break the law, and
2 Function as private detectives.

If this is how we are going to deal with the infection rate we might as well stay in lockdown for ever.

polesheep · 22-10-2020 01:59PM

yawhat? wrote: »

What if he knows that they are not under pressure, and that the HSE are lying. Should he keep that to himself?

His short reports are just that, reports. If he uncovers that then there would need to be a detailed investigation and exposure. Not that we'd get that from RTE.

JDD · 22-10-2020 02:00PM

I know there are lots of reasons to mistrust the HSE. Good reasons.

But contact tracing is kind of black and white (lets leave out schools here).

Contact tracers: "The contact tracing team have determined that you spent more than 15 minutes less than 2m from a person who has tested positive. You need to get a test."

Me: But I don't want to get a test. Tell me the name of the person who has tested positive and then I'll decide whether I need one.

Contact tracers: We can't do that.

Me: Well, I don't trust that you have done this right. The positive person might have misremembered how long I spent in their company, or I might be of the opinion that I was in fact 2m away from them. So I'm not going to get a test. I couldn't really give two sh*ts that it's highly unlikely you're wrong. I'm just going to cling to the fact that you might be wrong, so that I don't need to inconvenience myself. Back to the factory floor I go!!

is_that_so · 22-10-2020 02:01PM

polesheep wrote: »

That's not surprising when they are not able to confirm to the person that they are calling where or when the contact took place.

It's not but this rarely gets mentioned in the gnashing of teeth about the system supposedly failing. There's little that can be done anyway if people don't conform.

Paddygreen · 22-10-2020 02:02PM

Roger_007 wrote: »

The heavy traffic on the roads could be loads of people visiting graves?

The cold dead silence of the graveyard shattered like a pint glass hitting Grafton st by the trudging footsteps of the damned who are using that as an excuse to go beyond their permitted 5km circle for non essential reasons.

polesheep · 22-10-2020 02:02PM

1641 wrote: »

That would require the tracers to

1 Break the law, and
2 Function as private detectives.

If this is how we are going to deal with the infection rate we might as well stay in lockdown for ever.

Then the law should have been changed.

CalamariFritti · 22-10-2020 02:02PM

harr wrote: »

The problem with golf is not walking around the course on your own it the groups of normally lads who would get together and play and probably car pool to drive to the course I would presume club house would need to be open as well .. same goes for swimming pool , most have have an hour’s session at a time so it would mean a lot of people using changing rooms at same time.

Well you presume wrongly.

Club house and lockers had been closed for level 3 already. And why the heck would you car pool for your < 5km trip to the golf course? Especially with massive golf bag and a trolley to transport too?

patnor1011 · 22-10-2020 02:03PM

yeah, we need aussie or nz style lockdown. Sure....

https://twitter.com/9NewsAUS/status/1318632532716457986

Turtwig · 22-10-2020 02:03PM

polesheep wrote: »

No, his opinion is irrelevant. He should be reporting that the HSE state that they are under pressure. He should be impartial and objective. He is clearly neither.

An impartial objective journalist is effectively a parrot for an obviously biased unobjective source. This isn't good journalism either imo. Probably a matter for a different thread though.

polesheep · 22-10-2020 02:04PM

is_that_so wrote: »

It's not but this rarely gets mentioned in the gnashing of teeth about the system supposedly failing. There's little that can be done anyway if people don't conform.

Then it seems to be yet another system failure from the HSE with, as usual, the people on the frontline getting the abuse.

prunudo · 22-10-2020 02:04PM

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

yet gaa (even intercounty) is perfectly acceptable :mad: they can fcuk off in my opinion, ill find a loophole to let me travel within my county and ill use it. They want their cake and to eat it with us working in schools, throw us completely under the buss with regards to safety and indoor numbers, and then stop us doing anything outside of 5km when we finally get home, i need to exercise or i wont be able to keep working to be honest.

Go for your spin, breathe in the fresh air, enjoy being out the elements. Given your circumstances, the restrictions are even more nonsensical. Don't feel you have to justify your actions on an anonymous web forum. Do what you think is right for you and your health, once you're not effecting others whats the harm, and you're far less likely of catching covid on a solo mountain bike ride in the woods than in a classroom for 6 hrs a day 5 days a week.
Distance restrictions make no sense what so ever. Contact between people spreads covid, not being x distance from your home.

polesheep · 22-10-2020 02:04PM

Turtwig wrote: »

An impartial objective journalist is effectively a parrot for an obviously biased unobjective source. This isn't good journalism either imo. Probably a matter for a different thread though.

He's just reporting, not investigating. As you say, a matter for another thread.

growleaves · 22-10-2020 02:05PM

Fungie had an exit strategy. We don't.

polesheep · 22-10-2020 02:06PM

JDD wrote: »

I know there are lots of reasons to mistrust the HSE. Good reasons.

But contact tracing is kind of black and white (lets leave out schools here).

Contact tracers: "The contact tracing team have determined that you spent more than 15 minutes less than 2m from a person who has tested positive. You need to get a test."

Me: But I don't want to get a test. Tell me the name of the person who has tested positive and then I'll decide whether I need one.

Contact tracers: We can't do that.

Me: Well, I don't trust that you have done this right. The positive person might have misremembered how long I spent in their company, or I might be of the opinion that I was in fact 2m away from them. So I'm not going to get a test. I couldn't really give two sh*ts that it's highly unlikely you're wrong. I'm just going to cling to the fact that you might be wrong, so that I don't need to inconvenience myself. Back to the factory floor I go!!

It was all good until the made up nonsense in bold.

Covid 19 Part XXVII- 62,002 ROI (1,915 deaths) 39,609 NI (724 deaths) (02/11) Read OP

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