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Gyms

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    #152
    Mitch Connor
    Registered Users Posts: 45,070 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    rockatansky wrote: »
    Seriously, it's 6 weeks not 6 months. If you're going to do a level 5 closure then go all in. Leaving gyms open just add another level of risk albeit a low one.

    Just give them the 6 weeks lockdown and see where we are after that.

    And mental health of not going to the gym? Imagine being a Nurse/Doctor and facing into the second wave hitting, now that would affect your mental health.

    it probably won't be just the 6 weeks though.

    The government are doing nothing to increase our ability to deal with increases in cases, so the reality is we are probably going to see another 6 week lockdown in January. and again in April or May and again in the summer....

    See where we are at after this 6 weeks? In terms of the numbers of doctors or nurses, or number of ICU beds etc in the health system... exactly where we are now.


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    #153
    Macu17ab
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 90 ✭✭Macu17ab


    cdeb wrote: »
    3 minute rounds of chess. Pansies :P


    To be honest, you're making the gym sound like an unhealthy addiction there. Can't go to the gym for a few weeks and people would start to take it out at home? Those people have a problem, and it's not the gyms being closed.

    Everyone's missing a hobby or a third space (of which pubs are probably Ireland's best example, but they're shut). There's no reason why gyms should be treated any differently. "Ah sure don't I give it an aul wipe down after", as suggested by others, really isn't a valid reason.


    When people join gyms or martial arts clubs and make it part of their regular routine, their lives change in an objectively positive way. The same cannot be argued for pubs, which (as much as I love a drink) sell alcohol, which ultimately makes any depressive tendencies in a person worse.

    Comparing pubs as a hobby and as essential to people’s mental health is ridiculous.


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    #154
    Mitch Connor
    Registered Users Posts: 45,070 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    PokeHerKing wrote: »
    I personally know a lad who was contact traced from a confirmed case in his gym, he tested positive.

    Look if they're closing golf courses, you can't really argue with a gym. A bit like schools, you'd have to be fairly dense to try argue that a gym/school is not the perfect environment to transmit an airborne virus.

    IMO there is also no justification for closing golf courses.

    Very easy to put in place measures on a golf course - and it almost couldn't be any more socially distanced anyway.

    If the statistics don't show something is a proper factor in transmission or cases, then it should not be forced to close, and in some cases go out of business altogether.


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    #155
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,847 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    rockatansky wrote: »
    Seriously, it's 6 weeks not 6 months. If you're going to do a level 5 closure then go all in. Leaving gyms open just add another level of risk albeit a low one.

    Just give them the 6 weeks lockdown and see where we are after that.

    And mental health of not going to the gym? Imagine being a Nurse/Doctor and facing into the second wave hitting, now that would affect your mental health.

    schools and plenty of non essential activities still running, not seeing the "all in" strategy here

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #156
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,154 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Macu17ab wrote: »
    You lost all credibility when you compared pubs with gyms as a hobby.

    When people join gyms or martial arts clubs and make it part of their regular routine, their lives change in an objectively positive way. The same cannot be argued for pubs, which (as much as I love a drink) sell alcohol, which ultimately makes any depressive tendencies in a person worse.

    Comparing pubs as a hobby and as essential to people’s mental health is ridiculous.
    Well first I didn't say pubs were a hobby; I said they were a third space. I also didn't say they were essential - so not a good start so far! :)

    The idea of pubs as a third space - which is beneficial for mental health - is documented. Here's a thesis (I think) on it from IT Sligo for example -
    Social scientists have suggested that community is in a state of fragmentation and decline due to changes in modes of social interaction and a decrease in shared spaces, resulting in a weakened connection to place. Community without propinquity has been characterised by social alienation, fragmentation and what Oldenburg refers to as the "problem of place" (13). Third places, and thus the Irish pub, have been particularly affected.

    Your post reduces pubs to just alcohol, which probably wasn't your intention, but they are more than that. They're a place of community and social interaction and, as I said, a third space (and the gym would be one too). This isn't to ignore problem drinking of course - but then you're ignoring the gym owner who has suggested that people being without a gym for six weeks might take their frustrations out on their family, so I think those two match up as well.

    And pubs are closed (which I agree with). And that affects people's mental health.


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    #157
    Macu17ab
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 90 ✭✭Macu17ab


    cdeb wrote: »
    Well first I didn't say pubs were a hobby; I said they were a third space.

    The idea of pubs as a third space - which is very beneficial for mental health btw - is documented. Here's a thesis (I think) on it from IT Sligo for example -

    That’s a fair point, and I appreciate the citation but I know what you mean by a third space.

    As someone who likes a drink and has spent a number of years heavily enveloped in many types of training in different martial arts, it really is something you have had to be part of to understand.

    They are a healthy dependancy for coping as opposed to a gargle in your local, which I also think should be open as per the guidelines being followed.


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    #158
    carq
    Registered Users Posts: 868 ✭✭✭carq


    Mitch Connor wrote: »
    it probably won't be just the 6 weeks though.

    The government are doing nothing to increase our ability to deal with increases in cases, so the reality is we are probably going to see another 6 week lockdown in January. and again in April or May and again in the summer....

    See where we are at after this 6 weeks? In terms of the numbers of doctors or nurses, or number of ICU beds etc in the health system... exactly where we are now.


    This.
    Its the greatest case of kick the can ever seen.
    a slight surge and the whole system creaks, nothing addressed in budget .
    Capacity needs to be addressed immediately, resources directed towards health car instead of lockdown and pumping billions into extra welfare.


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    #159
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,154 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Macu17ab wrote: »
    As someone who likes a drink and has spent a number of years heavily enveloped in many types of training in different martial arts, it really is something you have had to be part of to understand.

    They are a healthy dependancy for coping as opposed to a gargle in your local, which I also think should be open as per the guidelines being followed.
    I can absolutely appreciate that what you're doing can be a release mechanism or a way of keeping healthy and keeping happy in yourself, and so on. I'm not saying gyms are inherently bad places at all, although I think you're being too broad when you say that the factually are a "healthy dependency". They can also bring out negative aspects - narcissism for one, or even just less social interaction depending on your preferred exercise. And again, there's a gym owner on this thread suggesting that some people may take out the closure on their family - that's hinting at addiction problems.

    But gyms - generally good for you, have their bad spots, have mental health benefits, but rightly closed in a pandemic.

    Pubs - generally good for you (granted, physically not as much, but physical health isn't everything), have their bad spots, have mental health benefits, but rightly closed in a pandemic.


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    #160
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    GazzaL wrote: »
    Everyone that goes there accepts the risk.

    What about the work colleague, house mate, parent, grandparent, shop worker, health care worker etc that they pass it onto?

    Its astounding that people still at this stage have zero understanding of what we are dealing with here.


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    #161
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Mitch Connor wrote: »
    IMO there is also no justification for closing golf courses.

    .

    How many people live within 5km of a golf course? Most people dont so you either have only people within 5km allowed to go and have other people resent it or else go anyway breaking the 5km rule.

    On the other hand if you make it an allowable reason to travel you will have every tom dick and harry of a non essential reason being justified for traveling and everyone saying "well if someone can go outside 5km to a golf course why cant I go outside 5km to X"

    We need to stop the virus, we need to stop people moving around and meeting and the only way to do this is bring in measures as people will not do it of their own accord. No way should gyms be open as they are indoor breading grounds for the virus, golfs courses either as they encourage travel and mixing of households etc neither are even remotely essential.


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    #162
    Chairman Meow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭Chairman Meow


    I get why Gyms are closing. Im not happy about it but if everything else is closing i guess gyms have to comply too. Personally i think the biggest spreader at the moment is schools but no one wants to close them because then youd have to look into remote learning solutions and well that would jsut be a bit too much like hard work i guess.

    Ive been a gym rat and fitness freak since 2012 so im really missing my workouts, and im pretty worried that with another closure my jiu jitsu gym might never reopen now. Lifting heavy weights and grappling training has been a huge boost to my mental health over the last few years and it absolutely sucks to not have them now. But for those of us saying they miss lifting, nows the perfect time to work on bodyweight exercises or incorporate some new form of training, theres plenty to learn on youtube


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    #163
    KennisWhale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 186 ✭✭KennisWhale


    Hassan Old-fashioned Stakeout wrote: »
    What about the work colleague, house mate, parent, grandparent, shop worker, health care worker etc that they pass it onto?

    Its astounding that people still at this stage have zero understanding of what we are dealing with here.

    Where is your proof of gyms being responsible for increased spread? You are being purposely obtuse and ignorant, it is not by accident.


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    #164
    KennisWhale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 186 ✭✭KennisWhale


    JeffKenna wrote: »
    I wonder did they die because of chess or with chess..

    :D


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    #165
    KennisWhale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 186 ✭✭KennisWhale


    rockatansky wrote: »
    Seriously, it's 6 weeks not 6 months. If you're going to do a level 5 closure then go all in. Leaving gyms open just add another level of risk albeit a low one.

    Just give them the 6 weeks lockdown and see where we are after that.

    And mental health of not going to the gym? Imagine being a Nurse/Doctor and facing into the second wave hitting, now that would affect your mental health.

    Hospitals were empty the most of this year, up until the last few weeks. I think their mental health is pretty good, aided by queue-skipping in Super Valu, free Deliveroo and making tik toks.


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    #166
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,154 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    KennisWhale wrote: »
    Where is your proof of gyms being responsible for increased spread? You are being purposely obtuse and ignorant, it is not by accident.
    Hi Kennis

    Earlier in the thread, you were asked for data to back up your assertion that covid was "pretty harmless to under 65s" (not just in terms of death rates, but also lung damage, etc). You've ignored that request completely as far as I can see.

    Does that make you purposely obtuse and ignorant as well?


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    #167
    Macu17ab
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 90 ✭✭Macu17ab


    cdeb wrote: »
    I can absolutely appreciate that what you're doing can be a release mechanism or a way of keeping healthy and keeping happy in yourself, and so on. I'm not saying gyms are inherently bad places at all, although I think you're being too broad when you say that the factually are a "healthy dependency". They can also bring out negative aspects - narcissism for one, or even just less social interaction depending on your preferred exercise. And again, there's a gym owner on this thread suggesting that some people may take out the closure on their family - that's hinting at addiction problems.

    But gyms - generally good for you, have their bad spots, have mental health benefits, but rightly closed in a pandemic.

    Pubs - generally good for you (granted, physically not as much, but physical health isn't everything), have their bad spots, have mental health benefits, but rightly closed in a pandemic.

    I understand the point you’re trying to make, but it’s apples and oranges.

    The benefits of exercise - both physically, and mentally are incomparable to the benefits of having pubs open.

    The fact is - that with a genuine effort to follow guidelines, most gyms (I know of) have been completely successful in restricting their gym services and numbers to satisfy them.

    Very different story in a pub, trying to reason with people after they’ve gotten a few drinks in. Not to mention the amount of pubs that bend the rules i.e 90 minute stay time, and mandatory meal with your pint.

    I do not agree with those two ridiculous rules (not sure many people do), but there is definitely a higher capacity and financial motive for pubs to bend the rules during the pandemic - not to mention drunk customers tossing them out the window.


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    #168
    KennisWhale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 186 ✭✭KennisWhale


    cdeb wrote: »
    Hi Kennis

    Earlier in the thread, you were asked for data to back up your assertion that covid was "pretty harmless to under 65s" (not just in terms of death rates, but also lung damage, etc). You've ignored that request completely as far as I can see.

    Does that make you purposely obtuse and ignorant as well?

    See my post from earlier in the thread - I thought you had been defeated and weren't replying to me;

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115012508&postcount=103


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    #169
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,790 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Jesus someone suggesting people will take it out on their spouses if they can't go to the gym. You can still get outside and do pull ups and pressups etc, I know you wont be able to squat 200kg and try and beat your personal bests for a while but I mean it's not like we're villagers about to be invaded by Mongol hoards, we can't work out with weights for a while, but there are still loads of things we can do.


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    #170
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,847 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Jesus someone suggesting people will take it out on their spouses if they can't go to the gym. You can still get outside and do pull ups and pressups etc, I know you wont be able to squat 200kg and try and beat your personal bests for a while but I mean it's not like we're villagers about to be invaded by Mongol hoards, we can't work out with weights for a while, but there are still loads of things we can do.

    im eyeing up the neighbours Micra, I think it can be deadlifted or at least pushed up and down the road like a Prowler Sled

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #171
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,154 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Macu17ab wrote: »
    The benefits of exercise - both physically, and mentally are incomparable to the benefits of having pubs open.
    The benefits of exercise are indeed huge.

    It can be achieved outside the gym though. That's the key point.
    KennisWhale wrote: »
    See my post from earlier in the thread - I thought you had been defeated and weren't replying to me;

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115012508&postcount=103
    That's a pdf dump. Can you pick a point or two out of it? For example, it shows half of all hospitalisations and 60% of all ICU treatments were in under 65s (page 8). That doesn't sound like nothing.

    And I did ask you to provided data not just on death rates, but also on longer-term side effects, which that link doesn't cover. Here's an article on the longer-term effects for example. To pick an example or two -
    In October 2020, a guide published by the Royal Australian College of General Practitioners (RACGP) says that ongoing post-COVID-19 infection symptoms such as fatigue, shortness of breath and chest pain will require management by GPs, in addition to the more severe conditions already documented
    A study by King's College London found that an estimated 10 per cent of COVID-19 sufferers in the UK did not recover within three weeks, and about 250,000 people experienced symptoms for 30 days or more.
    On 1 September 2020 The Lancet Infectious Diseases published an article by 15 doctors summarising the most common complaints of people recovering from COVID-19, who had experienced different degrees of severity during the acute phase, seen in their clinical practice. They reported an observational study of 100 recovering/recovered patients published in July 2020,[20] which found that 78 of these patients had abnormal findings on cardiovascular MRI (median 71 days after diagnosis), and 36 of those experienced dyspnoea and unusual fatigue.

    So given that you've shown 60% of all ICU treatments in Ireland are in under 65s, it follows that the above side-effects will be experienced by people of a wide range of ages. (The wiki article says people over 50 are a key risk area for longer-term covid effects for example)

    So I think it's safe to say your notion that covid is "pretty harmless to under 65s" is nonsense.


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    #172
    Nobotty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Nobotty


    cdeb wrote: »
    Hi Kennis

    Earlier in the thread, you were asked for data to back up your assertion that covid was "pretty harmless to under 65s" (not just in terms of death rates, but also lung damage, etc). You've ignored that request completely as far as I can see.

    Does that make you purposely obtuse and ignorant as well?

    Ah for heavens sake
    1110 on average A DAY testing positive (of 18000)
    The median age being under 45
    350 out of a population of 5 million in hospital most of whom are over 65

    Its not too much to deduce that the virus is relatively harmless to under 65s vs over 65s from that

    Doesn't mean under 45s should ignore guidelines though
    Everyone should apply them to the letter as much as possible!


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    #173
    DeanAustin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    Hassan Old-fashioned Stakeout wrote: »
    What about the work colleague, house mate, parent, grandparent, shop worker, health care worker etc that they pass it onto?

    Its astounding that people still at this stage have zero understanding of what we are dealing with here.

    I’m amazed at how selfish people are being and how they are wilfully ignoring what the government are trying to do.

    I’m seeing lots of posts saying “what about my activity.”

    The government can’t manage this pandemic by addressing every scenario and issuing guidelines for every single activity.

    This is quite simple.Their aim is to reduce cases to ensure we can manage the virus and to ensure that hospitals don’t become overwhelmed.

    They believe the way to do that is to stop people moving about except for essential services. Closing gyms and golf courses helps with that aim. Will there be inconsistencies if you look hard enough? Yes, probably. Will some people lose a bit for that decision? Yes but rather than going through the risk associated with each activity and making recommendations on that basis, which would take a huge amount of time and result in a confused message, they’ve decided to take a blanket approach which will undeniably help in their overall aim.

    We’re being asked to give up some activities for 6 weeks. It’s **** but it’s not a massive ask. It’ll make me more unhappy personally but I’m fortunate to have a job and to have my health. It’s not a massive sacrifice when I see what other people are going through. The government are trying to manage a pandemic here so there is an impact on pretty much everyone’s quality of life. The government can’t manage this virus and keep everyone’s quality of life the exact same. We all have to make sacrifices.

    I see lots of posts asking why can’t we do what South Korea, Vietnam and Singapore have done with the virus. It’s because, generally, those countries prioritise the good of society over individuals. In Ireland, we have people throwing their toys out of the pram because they can’t go to the gym or play golf for 6 weeks.


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    #174
    Mitch Connor
    Registered Users Posts: 45,070 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    Hassan Old-fashioned Stakeout wrote: »
    No way should gyms be open as they are indoor breading grounds for the virus

    I would say this makes sense... but there is precious little evidence to back it up, either in Ireland or the UK. There is no evidence that gyms are in any way a significant sourse of transmission.


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    #175
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,154 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Nobotty wrote: »
    Ah for heavens sake
    1110 on average A DAY testing positive (of 18000)
    The median age being under 45
    350 out of a population of 5 million in hospital most of whom are over 65

    Its not too much to deduce that the virus is relatively harmless to under 65s vs over 65s from that

    Doesn't mean under 45s should ignore guidelines though
    Everyone should apply them to the letter as much as possible!
    Certainly they fare better. I'm not arguing that they don't. But that doesn't mean covid is "pretty harmless". It has a nasty kick to it.

    (Is there an age breakdown on those currently in hospital btw? I don't see it on the HSE Daily Operations Report. The cumulative report referred to earlier though indicates only half of hospitalisations and 40% of ICU admissions are in over 65s, which isn't "most")


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    #176
    skinny90
    Registered Users Posts: 2,466 ✭✭✭skinny90


    sky88 wrote: »
    I’ll be honest I don’t agree with gyms being closed fully but the gyms using mental health as a reason to stay open is bigger bulls**t then the decision to close

    I agree, cant see an insurance company covering them either if this is the stance they are taking. If they want to promote mental health in their community, they should provide workout from home activities, workout without equipment routines etc they turning this around by saying theyre not taking more members but they are not freezing payments coming in, encouraging members to break the 5k rule.
    So in fact they all about the money.
    Worse off on their socials, all comments objecting to their behavior is blocked so all you will see is idiots supporting them. I have even seen multiple posts claiming suicide deaths are greater than COVID in 2020


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    #177
    Macu17ab
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 90 ✭✭Macu17ab


    cdeb wrote: »
    The benefits of exercise are indeed huge.

    It can be achieved outside the gym though. That's the key point.


    At home, I have no boxing bag to do what I find the most beneficial to me - release through impact. I also have no space at home to install one.

    My teammates aren't here pushing me when I get winded, and my coach certainly isn't commenting on my form. I have nothing to punch, kick, or interact with.

    I find jogging to be a massive chore, and quite regularly struggle to work up the motivation to do it. You can't tell me I can exercise at home when the type of exercise that I enjoy is not possible here.

    We are socially distancing at my gym, wearing masks, and not sparring whatsoever. Keeping numbers low, and are the root cause of precisely 0 cases.

    Please explain to me how I can substitute this training at home, and if you can't - give one good reason why my gym specifically should be closed? And I say specifically because blanket measures lack any insight. Send out gym inspectors for surprise visits and fine the offenders, but don't screw over my gym, a grass roots Muay Thai club which could very well not exist by the time lockdown ends.


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    #178
    Signore Fancy Pants
    Registered Users Posts: 3,682 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    Westside gym wont be opening.

    https://lovindublin.com/amp/lifestyle/westside-gym-posts-video-confirming-closure


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    #179
    rockatansky
    Registered Users Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭rockatansky


    Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »
    Westside gym wont be opening.

    https://lovindublin.com/amp/lifestyle/westside-gym-posts-video-confirming-closure

    Shocking turn of events!

    He got what he wanted, his visit from the Gardai, now towing the line and some nice free publicity for his Gym.


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    #180
    Nobotty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Nobotty


    cdeb wrote: »
    Certainly they fare better. I'm not arguing that they don't. But that doesn't mean covid is "pretty harmless". It has a nasty kick to it.

    (Is there an age breakdown on those currently in hospital btw? I don't see it on the HSE Daily Operations Report. The cumulative report referred to earlier though indicates only half of hospitalisations and 40% of ICU admissions are in over 65s, which isn't "most")

    The hospitalised age breakdown is here

    https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/30e1c-statement-from-the-national-public-health-emergency-team-thursday-15-october/#hospital-statistics

    A good bit down that page
    3 times as many over 55
    The number over 65 is the biggest
    Once you go above 45,you can see the numbers hospitalised take off
    Over 55 is 3 times the rest

    Its very low below that
    Data from the start up to October 13

    No Question its a dangerous dangerous disease especially for people in half the population demographic

    It is super important to wash,mask and distance no matter what age you are
    I don't believe its difficult to do that in most gyms


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    #181
    KennisWhale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 186 ✭✭KennisWhale


    cdeb wrote: »
    The benefits of exercise are indeed huge.

    It can be achieved outside the gym though. That's the key point.


    That's a pdf dump. Can you pick a point or two out of it? For example, it shows half of all hospitalisations and 60% of all ICU treatments were in under 65s (page 8). That doesn't sound like nothing.

    And I did ask you to provided data not just on death rates, but also on longer-term side effects, which that link doesn't cover. Here's an article on the longer-term effects for example. To pick an example or two -







    So given that you've shown 60% of all ICU treatments in Ireland are in under 65s, it follows that the above side-effects will be experienced by people of a wide range of ages. (The wiki article says people over 50 are a key risk area for longer-term covid effects for example)

    So I think it's safe to say your notion that people under 65 basically get a free pass is nonsense here.

    My key point is that the risk associated with gyms (of which we have no actual evidence in any event) are negated by the health benefits. I highlight the risk-based approach taken with schooles (i.e. benefit to children of education and socialising combined with negligible concern to them in respect of the virus).
    cdeb wrote: »
    That's a pdf dump. Can you pick a point or two out of it? For example, it shows half of all hospitalisations and 60% of all ICU treatments were in under 65s (page 8). That doesn't sound like nothing.

    In those HPSC reports, they began counting on 20 March, 7 months ago, so that is the time period we are working with.

    "Half of all hospitalisations and half of all ICU treatments were under 65" does not give a whole lot of context;

    (1) These are people "with" covid, not necessarily hospitalised "because of" covid.
    (2) In 7 months of data tracking in Ireland;

    28 people under the age of 34 were admitted to ICU "with" covid and 187 people between 35 and 64 were admitted to ICU "with" covid, giving a total of 216 people admitted to ICU in 7 months.

    8 people under the age of 34 died "with" covid and 117 between 35 and 64 died "with" covid, giving a total of 125 people dead under the age of 65 in 7 months.

    There is no age breakdown for this stat but out of the total "with" covid deaths for Ireland, 94.05% had underlying clinical conditions when they died.

    Objectively, these numbers speak for themselves.

    cdeb wrote: »
    And I did ask you to provided data not just on death rates, but also on longer-term side effects, which that link doesn't cover. Here's an article on the longer-term effects for example.

    I think it is not clear that long covid applies to healthy people who contracted covid, but more likely relates to those who were at risk anyway and caught it. Further, from a quick read of some of the links in the Wiki article, I notice that the data seems to be anecdotal, coming from people themselves claiming they felt so-called long covid effects.

    Nonetheless, from your link, look at the risk factors for "Long Covid";

    Age – particularly those aged over 50
    Being a woman
    Excess weight
    Asthma
    Having more than 5 symptoms in the first week of COVID-19 infection (e.g. cough, fatigue, headache, diarrhoea, loss of sense of smell).

    I think there is one noticeable risk factor which the gym can definitely help with, but asthma is another risk factor for which swimming is highly recommended and gyms can help with this.


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