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Edwin Poots

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13

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    #62
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    I don't think Unionists in Fermanagh or Tyrone are the issue to be honest. They mightn't be as militant as the Sandy Row or Larne. That is where the trouble will be kicking up.

    I doubt Arlene Foster will be leader of the DUP by the time any border poll did come around. It will be some mad radical Teigue hating yahoo from the Shankill. I would say he wont struggle for tools either despite what some people reckon.


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    #63
    grayzer75
    Registered Users Posts: 973 ✭✭✭grayzer75


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    I don't think Unionists in Fermanagh or Tyrone are the issue to be honest. They mightn't be as militant as the Sandy Row or Larne. That is where the trouble will be kicking up.

    I doubt Arlene Foster will be leader of the DUP by the time any border poll did come around. It will be some mad radical Teigue hating yahoo from the Shankill. I would say he wont struggle for tools either despite what some people reckon.

    The so called clean living brethren have always used the working class loyalist for their own aim whether it be marches blocked near interfaces or young girls trying to get to school they will be the ones in the background whipping up the crowd with inflammatory speeches and then denying involvement when it all kicks off.

    They are the more dangerous ones as they lead the pack from the background.


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    #64
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    grayzer75 wrote: »
    The so called clean living brethren have always used the working class loyalist for their own aim whether it be marches blocked near interfaces or young girls trying to get to school they will be the ones in the background whipping up the crowd with inflammatory speeches and then denying involvement when it all kicks off.

    They are the more dangerous ones as they lead the pack from the background.

    Exactly.

    Far more likely. Some flute like Lord Dodds.


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    #65
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,040 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    Exactly.

    Far more likely. Some flute like Lord Dodds.




    That's Lord "Smiler" Dodds to you.


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    #66
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Odhinn wrote: »
    That's Lord "Smiler" Dodds to you.

    Would you not just call him Nigel?


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    #67
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,040 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    Would you not just call him Nigel?


    He doesn't strike me as encouraging informality, tbh.


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    #68
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    On a more serious note I think current DUP leaders would need to catch themselves on to what the world is doing. Their anti gay stance stinks and they have struggled to keep up with how younger people see the world. I mean the hypocracy is huge, especially considering the alleged pastimes of the like of Donaldson.

    They are also anti abortion, and too far right. At some point you should be seeing some sort of radical polar change in support, probably in favour of the UUP or the Alliance party. At some point the younger demography must be scratching their heads and saying why should I vote for these flutes?


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    #69
    JohnnyFlash
    Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    I think the long knives are out for Arlene in her own party. Dodds losing his seat was a significant setback for her.


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    #70
    cameramonkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,220 ✭✭✭cameramonkey


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    Yeah, your probably right. They will just bow down to their nationalist neighbours and accept a united Ireland with a wry smile. They will give up singing phuck the pope also. I can see them giving up the bonfires and the summer marching too, they are sound like that.


    I am not saying they will like it or that they will drop their "culture" but if they start a war it will be one they will not be winning. Most Unionist will realise that the end game in nigh and things need to be worked out rather than fought about. All this childish sectarian baiting by the DUP is just for show and votes, it comes from a position of weakness not strength. They had the whip hand over nationalists in the last few years because of the Tories need for them but they blew it spectacularly. they had a chance to be magnanimous and build a NI for all citizens, instead they jumped into the sectarian bunker and baited the nationalist community only to be ridden sideways several times by Tories and then dumped. just like all abused they sucked it up and came back for more.


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    #71
    Normal One
    Registered Users Posts: 357 ✭✭Normal One


    Mad_maxx wrote: »

    im also by the way in favour of us rejoining the commonwealth tomorrow as a way of showing unionists that we are not anti british , the commonwealth is a harmless club of nations , canada are members and they are about as british as michael healy rae , the centuries of british oppression is not reason to say NO to rejoining we would do so now from a position of strength


    its reasonable to provide assurances to unionists and the commonwealth is a simple token of friendship

    I'm strongly in favour of a United Ireland but I disagree with us joining the commonwealth. It's an antiquated tip of the cap to imperialism/colonialism, and we owe that sort of thing absolutely nothing. It's a clean break we need.

    The insurance policy for unionists is that they'll be significant stakeholders in a new Ireland, defined and protected by a new constitution, which in turn is backed by a European (E.U.) constitution and all the rights and equality afforded by those.


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    #72
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    thats it, its like a lad on the dole wanting a rolls Royce, it seems brilliant till you think about how utterly unaffordable it is.


    it looks unaffordable because of all of the contributions made to british institutions which make up a large proportion of the subsidies NI receive, not to mention britain's refusal to really invest in it and creat jobs.
    take all of those contributions away and a UI is very affordable as a UI will certainly gain greater international investment and more jobs.
    it's very clear NI has lots of potential and a UI will help it reach that potential.
    while it remains part of the UK it will have nothing going for it.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #73
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    I doubt it will get as far as a vote. I would say the UDA or UVF strategy would be to start murdering catholics beforehand. it makes the most sense. Once the trouble kicked off again nationalist paramilitries will get their hands forced. They ( the UDA ) did the exact same thing in the 60's.

    I agree that most British MP's want rid of the north, but they cannot be seen to be acting in that way. As soon as the violence kicked off you are into the army being redeployed etc etc. It sounds awful but hardline loyalists won't care.

    If unionists were at all interested in a republic you would see more evidence of this. For example there would be no bullshight around language provisions or education and domestic policy etc.

    More likely I could see a more autonomous 6 county NI developing over the next 100 years. Nationalist rights will improve, language etc, it will be governed by concession. But there will be hard lines, and a full 32 county republic will be one of them. Any mootings of a border poll will cause eruptions on the streets, everyone knows this.


    britain won't re-deploy the army to NI again, they have already made that clear.
    Quantum Erasure wrote: »
    ‘Our demand is a very simple one. We ask for no privileges, but we are determined that no one shall have privileges over us. We ask for no special rights, but we claim the same rights from the same government as every other part of the United Kingdom. We ask for nothing more; it is our inalienable right as citizens of the United Kingdom, and Heaven help the men who try and take it from us.’


    they would continue to have those rights in a UI where the rights do not conflict with irish law.
    so they would still remain UK citizens if that is what they want.
    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    I think this is a great idea and I cannot see why it wasn't done years ago. Even at a token level. The only reason we left before was to appease more fanatical republican nationalists who were hell bent on a clean break. Idealistic flutes like Dev etc. Sure that phucker fancied us hanging around the crossroads swapping spuds. They were building motorways in the UK and we were walking barefoot under clowns like him.

    Re-joining the commonwealth makes business sense and would certainly go a long way towards soothing Brexit concerns. It certainly would not get in the way of self determination, which for me is what having a United Ireland should be all about.

    It is the actions of a few madser fanatics that has us in the Quagmire we are in. If we could take our heads out of the swamp we might see a brighter future for everyone. That makes more sense to me and might be something worth it.


    rejoining the common wealth would be pointless as there isn't anything to gain from it.
    there are no economic benefits as we already trade with the nations in it that are worth trading with.
    had we remained within it after the foundation of the state we wouldn't have got any motor ways any earlier, we would actually have ended up like NI with still barely any real infrastructural investment.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #74
    Normal One
    Registered Users Posts: 357 ✭✭Normal One


    end of the road wrote: »
    it looks unaffordable because of all of the contributions made to british institutions which make up a large proportion of the subsidies NI receive, not to mention britain's refusal to really invest in it and creat jobs.
    take all of those contributions away and a UI is very affordable as a UI will certainly gain greater international investment and more jobs.
    it's very clear NI has lots of potential and a UI will help it reach that potential.
    while it remains part of the UK it will have nothing going for it.

    I'm confident that the EU would be happy to allow a ton of subsidies and investments flow into the (former) 6 counties and border region. Best get it done sooner rather than later, when German reunification is still in living memories. If Brexit goes badly wrong for the brits, it would be another kick in the teeth for them.

    An Ireland-friendly American administration would like a piece of the pie too, the Clintons for example, point to their involvement in the GFA.


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    #75
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Normal One wrote: »
    If Brexit goes badly wrong for the brits.

    NI has the fewest political consequences for the Tories (or Labour for that matter) in Westminster if they want to throw it off HMS Britannia for being the dead weight it is.

    It's likely that NI will face severe austerity, at the hands of 'er Maj's Treasury, to help the soon-to-be impoverished 'comfortable middle' to decide a brighter future lies in the EU via a Unified Ireland.


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    #76
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Normal One wrote: »
    I'm confident that the EU would be happy to allow a ton of subsidies and investments flow into the (former) 6 counties and border region. Best get it done sooner rather than later, when German reunification is still in living memories. If Brexit goes badly wrong for the brits, it would be another kick in the teeth for them.

    An Ireland-friendly American administration would like a piece of the pie too, the Clintons for example, point to their involvement in the GFA.

    agreed.
    once quality infrastructure is put into the area, businesses will be created, foreign companies will come and northern ireland will become an attractive place to live.
    britain has stifled the people there for too long and it must end.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #77
    The_Fitz
    Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭The_Fitz


    The days of well-heeled Unionists turning out en masse for trouble have gone in my opinion. Compare Drumcree to the city hall flag protests.

    Most Loyalists have completely shifted their focus solely to crime and probably already have a good working relationship with their southern criminal counterparts. To quote Big Merv (RIP) "Our only loyalty was crime".


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    #78
    joseywhales
    Registered Users Posts: 4,011 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    These fringe actors are merely that. The decisions will be made in the pockets of the middle class both north and south, then the rhetoric can be invented by these fringes but they won't be influencing any change. Same as ever, ordinary people want security for their families, brexit means that the republic will continue to outpace the north in terms of financial security, the uks handling of covid means it's citizens may feel less secure in terms of health than those in the republic. Bit by bit this can erode confidence in unionism in an nice peaceful way.


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    #79
    Hamsterchops
    Registered Users Posts: 3,135 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    So what exactly did Edwin Poots say that is so wrong?


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    #80
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Lots of examples off GAA activities not exactly complying with the covid guidelines. It cant be forgotten either the BLM marches which incidentally tends to be a Sinn Fein / Nationalist supported movement in the main.

    The 6 to 1 ratio is not surprising.


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    #81
    The_Fitz
    Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭The_Fitz


    Hamsterchops wrote: »
    So what exactly did Edwin Poots say that is so wrong?

    Implying that your political affiliation was a factor in spreading the disease. UUP ran department of health confirmed that political affiliation data is not recorded when registering a case, which would be absurd.

    He is probably correct that it is more rampant in Nationalist areas, but he doesn't take into account societal factors. Difference between North Antrim and Derry would be explainable. But no way is this virus moving differently between the New Lodge and Tigers Bay.

    At least it wasn't as bad as some of the stuff his da used to come out with:

    “I would cut off all supplies, including water and electricity, to Catholic areas. And I would stop Catholics from getting social security.

    “It is the only way to deal with enemies of the state and to stamp out the present troubles.”


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    #82
    The_Fitz
    Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭The_Fitz


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Lots of examples off GAA activities not exactly complying with the covid guidelines. It cant be forgotten either the BLM marches which incidentally tends to be a Sinn Fein / Nationalist supported movement in the main.

    The 6 to 1 ratio is not surprising.

    Has this ratio been proven?


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    #83
    Hamsterchops
    Registered Users Posts: 3,135 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    The_Fitz wrote: »
    Implying that your political affiliation was a factor in spreading the disease. UUP ran department of health confirmed that political affiliation data is not recorded when registering a case, which would be absurd.

    He is probably correct that it is more rampant in Nationalist areas, but he doesn't take into account societal factors. Difference between North Antrim and Derry would be explainable. But no way is this virus moving differently between the New Lodge and Tigers Bay.

    I don't know the details, but logic might dictate that the massive IRA/Storey funeral + all the big GAA matches don't help to stop the spread .....

    Not good for thousands of people to be gathering in close proximity together, I guess that's what Poots is on about, albeit in a clumsy way.


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    #84
    joseywhales
    Registered Users Posts: 4,011 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    Hamsterchops wrote: »
    I don't know the details, but logic might dictate that the massive IRA/Storey funeral + all the big GAA matches don't help to stop the spread .....

    Not good for thousands of people to be gathering in close proximity together, I guess that's what Poots is on about, albeit in a clumsy way.

    It wasn't just clumsy, it was a lie. I'm very confident it was a lie because I dont know any study that could be run that would accurately map political affiliation with covid positivity.


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    #85
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Hamsterchops wrote: »
    So what exactly did Edwin Poots say that is so wrong?
    Hamsterchops wrote: »
    I don't know the details, but logic might dictate that the massive IRA/Storey funeral + all the big GAA matches don't help to stop the spread .....

    Not good for thousands of people to be gathering in close proximity together, I guess that's what Poots is on about, albeit in a clumsy way.

    Poots has an ally in the South.

    Meanwhile back in the 21st Century the consequences of the DUP's actions manifest themselves.

    'The UK food and drink industry warns Boris Johnson companies will have to pull out of Northern Ireland due to Brexit'

    businessinsider.com


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    #86
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    end of the road wrote: »
    rejoining the common wealth would be pointless as there isn't anything to gain from it.
    there are no economic benefits as we already trade with the nations in it that are worth trading with.
    had we remained within it after the foundation of the state we wouldn't have got any motor ways any earlier, we would actually have ended up like NI with still barely any real infrastructural investment.

    As a consumer i always make a point of looking up all the bargains before making a purchase, I like value and I hate wasting money on shight.

    I also make a point of becoming a member of all the customer loyalty schemes where possible, it helps to get extra after you have spent your spends.

    I don't see the Commonwealth as being any different. It is just another trade deal or customer reward scheme. I think as a country we should be taking every opportunity that arises to us, it is foolish not to.

    I don't care about being associated with Britain , it does not compromise my identity at all. Irish people should drop their inhibitions about sharing a future with Britain, they are our closet neighbours, they should be cooperated with were possible, they are not the evil enemy.


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    #87
    Hamsterchops
    Registered Users Posts: 3,135 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    Poots has an ally in the South.

    The gist of Poots comments (re mass gatherings) is dead right. That IRA-Storey funeral did the North-West of this island no favours in stopping the spread of the virus. Mass gatherings at GAA matches obviously don't help either.

    Leaving his Nationalist V Unionist jibes aside, the science part of his post is obviously correct. I don't think the virus knows what ones politics or religion are, so on that point he's totally wrong.

    Cheltenham was another disaster which played straight into the hands of the virus which loves mass gatherings.

    Not sure all this makes me an ally of Mr Poots, unless you're referring to another poster :cool:


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    #88
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Hamsterchops wrote: »
    The gist of Poots comments (re mass gatherings) is dead right.

    Poots is dog-whistling like a champion sheep herder. You know what he's implying and you agree with it. Own that shit and quit with the 'Mr Innocent Question' rhetoric.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=114974373&postcount=1732


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    #89
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    As a consumer i always make a point of looking up all the bargains before making a purchase, I like value and I hate wasting money on shight.

    I also make a point of becoming a member of all the customer loyalty schemes where possible, it helps to get extra after you have spent your spends.

    I don't see the Commonwealth as being any different. It is just another trade deal or customer reward scheme. I think as a country we should be taking every opportunity that arises to us, it is foolish not to.

    I don't care about being associated with Britain , it does not compromise my identity at all. Irish people should drop their inhibitions about sharing a future with Britain, they are our closet neighbours, they should be cooperated with were possible, they are not the evil enemy.


    we have already taken the opportunities that the common wealth could offer by trading with the nations out of it worth trading with.
    we already fully co-operate with britain and rejoining an outdated entity with nothing more to offer us wouldn't constitute further co-operation with britain.
    there is just no point or reason in rejoining the common wealth, it offers us nothing more and we have better things to do then having anything to do with it, it will likely fade away in the next number of decades anyway.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #90
    Hamsterchops
    Registered Users Posts: 3,135 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    Own that shit and quit with the 'Mr Innocent Question' rhetoric.

    Are you ill, or are you just wanting conflict?

    Read my posts man, and stop trying to troll. And you're just as bad 'end of the road' for thanking him. I can only presume that because I mentioned Storeys funeral it has upset you?


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    #91
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Hamsterchops wrote: »
    I can only presume that because I mentioned Storeys funeral it has upset you?

    Storey's funeral was in June and is still front-and-centre of your mind yet you suggest I'm ill.

    Think about that.


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