Schools closed until February? (part 3)

niamh247 · 21-10-2020 06:35PM

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/covid-outbreaks-in-schools-doubled-again-last-week-39651863.html

The number of weekly Covid outbreaks recorded in schools doubled again last week, according to latest data from the Health Protection Surveillance Centre (HPSC).

There were 46 outbreaks in the week-ending October 17 - last Saturday - compared with 25 the previous week.

The figures for the week-ending October 10 were, itself, a doubling of 12, 13, 11 and 12 in each of the preceding four weeks.

It brings the total since term began to 119, out of 4,000 primary and post-primary schools.

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 21-10-2020 06:36PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Teachers do need to consider their role in all of this.

From September, the teacher unions at both second and third level were absolutely adamant that there could be no simulcasting of their lessons. The unintended consequences of this is that parents and students will come to school and college by default, and only opt out if they have symptoms. This increases the risk to teachers of asymptomatic transmission. If the option of tuning in from home to a class was available, it would have been much better.

Secondly, there are responsibilities on teachers to own the compliance within their own classroom. From my experience, the vast majority have done so. However, the small minority who don't, who don't enforce the mask rule, who are lax on social distancing etc. are the ones who will create the problems within the schools.

Neither of those issues are on governments or school management.

When are the results of your comprehensive study on covid in schools being released?

wirelessdude01 · 21-10-2020 06:37PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Teachers do need to consider their role in all of this.

From September, the teacher unions at both second and third level were absolutely adamant that there could be no simulcasting of their lessons. The unintended consequences of this is that parents and students will come to school and college by default, and only opt out if they have symptoms. This increases the risk to teachers of asymptomatic transmission. If the option of tuning in from home to a class was available, it would have been much better.

Secondly, there are responsibilities on teachers to own the compliance within their own classroom. From my experience, the vast majority have done so. However, the small minority who don't, who don't enforce the mask rule, who are lax on social distancing etc. are the ones who will create the problems within the schools.

Neither of those issues are on governments or school management.

You do know that the depts official position is that children have to come to school. I'll take the IoE as an example of one institution who wanted to provide children with the option to stay at home if they so wanted and access live streamed classes. They were told u Der no circumstances was they allowed. Also the Kerry school that was providing support to anxious children who opted to stay at home and who were told to immediately stop the practice.

Stop trying to paint teachers and schools as the baddies in this situation. We aren't.
If a student refuses to wear a mask or social distance when requested there is no mechanism to properly remove that student. Yes they can be removed that day but will present again the following day and time and repeat.

Inquitus · 21-10-2020 06:37PM

https://twitter.com/dlooney/status/1318940496975233027

irishblessing · 21-10-2020 06:40PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Thanks Irishblessing for the mention of the RTE report, here it is:

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1021/1173019-coronavirus-schools-figures/

"However, it said that it was reassuring that the positivity rate for schools – at 2.3% - was considerably lower than the national positivity rate which is in excess of 7%.

It said that while the increase of Covid-19 cases in the community was leading to more cases in schools, it is important to note that "these cases are not amplified within schools themselves".

The HSE added that mass testing has taken place in a total of 414 schools following public health risk assessments, with more than 10,500 students and staff tested and 246 cases of Covid-19 identified."

The figures show that the problems in schools are less than those in the community.

Mass testing has not happened. Contact tracing and testing has failed and collapsed. Those numbers in light of that is absolutely meaningless. I posted the article to highlight the fact that it's being acknowledged now in the media that outbreaks in schools are rising. I do not agree with what you pulled out.

8k71ps · 21-10-2020 06:40PM

joe40 wrote: »

My opinion on this is that I believe there is a very high likelihood that transmission will occur in schools. The numbers make it inevitable. I hope govt will be honest.

However as a parent and teacher (secondary) it is important that schools are kept open. Predicted grades are not suitable and would be even harder this year. Education is vital for our society. Teachers and everyone working in schools should be given whatever protection is required but schools must be kept open.
The virus is going to be with us for months/years closing school is not viable.

I don't see the problem with having remote learning for a little while whilst a proper hybrid model is developed by the department. For the most part transmission is far too high to get it to the lows they want for Christmas already from what I can see , so something somewhere is going to budge and I don't see it being retail or whatever else is currently open.

khalessi · 21-10-2020 06:41PM

Pay attention Dept of Ed had role in making compliance impossible and despite this school staff have done their utmost to ensure safe schools

blanch152 wrote: »

Teachers do need to consider their role in all of this.

Secondly, there are responsibilities on teachers to own the compliance within their own classroom. From my experience, the vast majority have done so. However, the small minority who don't, who don't enforce the mask rule, who are lax on social distancing etc. are the ones who will create the problems within the schools.

Neither of those issues are on governments or school management.

khalessi wrote: »

Non of the pods are implemented properly.

Teachers have been saying this since the documents were released, if you look at the documents sent out to schools, in some drawings there is 40cm between children on the plans, the tables are shoved up against radiators and to acheive 1metre social distancing between students they measured from nose to nose. Even professionally trained draughtsmen/architects couldn't get the kids to fit.

So it is not the teachers fault if pods dont work we have all followed guidelines issued by Dept of Ed.

The kids are close enough that there have been headlice outbreaks in schools.

irishblessing · 21-10-2020 06:42PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Yeah they have heard nothing at all from the HSE so have been told by their representative body to hold off until they are given official guidelines and criteria to use.

I'm almost speechless. This is so dangerous. Thank f-k schools are almost out for a while, my nerves need a break.

Thats me · 21-10-2020 06:42PM

Lillyfae wrote: »

You’re using a different metric.

You have taken percentage for specific domain, i've compared this with all cases found countrywide. I agree, this is not perfect comparison because country-wide stats including not only random tests done within population but also tests done on patients with symptoms where percentage is definitely higher by obvious reasons. If we could exclude latter segment difference would be only higher.

If you not agree - provide your, proper, calculation. If not - don't waste time.

political analyst · 21-10-2020 06:46PM

Closing the schools in March increased the spread of the virus because it meant that there were many children hanging around in public spaces.

khalessi · 21-10-2020 06:47PM

political analyst wrote: »

Closing the schools in March increased the spread of the virus because it meant that there were many children hanging around in public spaces.

and opening them has them hanging around in confined spaces lol

mvl · 21-10-2020 06:47PM

blanch152 wrote: »

I can't believe we have someone looking for an increase in cases so that schools will be shut down. Incredible.

of course this is the only conclusion you can take from reading my post. detail you are missing is that: majority of students doesn't equal all students.

i would be a secondary school parent pro hybrid learning for last couple of months. get it now ?

Birdy · 21-10-2020 06:48PM

political analyst wrote: »

Closing the schools in March increased the spread of the virus because it meant that there were many children hanging around in public spaces.

dundalkfc10 · 21-10-2020 06:49PM

My sons teacher, who I would know well has told me they won't be opened after Mid Term just so I can arrange a babysitter, said as usual will be last minute decision

wirelessdude01 · 21-10-2020 06:50PM

political analyst wrote: »

Closing the schools in March increased the spread of the virus because it meant that there were many children hanging around in public spaces.

Jesus I'm not sure where you live but where I am there wasn't a sinner out in the evening time as everywhere was shut.

Anyway I think you'll find that the vast majority of teachers actually don't want schools closed but that things maybe need to change. Maybe hybrid learning for a defined time period, maybe remote for a short while. Something that reduces school/community spread.

Dempo1 · 21-10-2020 06:52PM

I'm predicting Teachers won't return after weeks mid term, there's already rumblings at Union level and I note with curiosity figures on outbreaks in schools given headline status by the somewhat Morose, Fergal Bowers on Six one news this evening, indeed he didn't even bother to discuss today's cases and Deaths, left that to the ever excitable Catriona Perry.

wirelessdude01 · 21-10-2020 06:52PM

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

My sons teacher, who I would know well has told me they won't be opened after Mid Term just so I can't arrange a babysitter, said as usual will be last minute decision

There is no official information on this. Now it wouldn't surprise me if it was announced late next week during midterm.

I've already organised with the sun taking my class that all books are to go home on Friday as a just in case. The online platform is already up and running and been tested by the children. All just in case.

Icyseanfitz · 21-10-2020 07:02PM

You what's really beginning to drag me down, is that even though the school situation is clearly deteriorating, more and more people seem to be perfectly accepting of them as they are and don't see any need to make them safer.

JP100 · 21-10-2020 07:03PM

meeeeh wrote: »

Sorry I'm not a dog for you to shush me.

If you desisted from the insults in the first place, nobody would be requesting you to shush. Now that's all I'm saying on it anymore as it's just off topic nonsense that nobody needs to read.

dundalkfc10 · 21-10-2020 07:04PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

There is no official information on this. Now it wouldn't surprise me if it was announced late next week during midterm.

I've already organised with the sun taking my class that all books are to go home on Friday as a just in case. The online platform is already up and running and been tested by the children. All just in case.

Oh I know there's no official information but everyone knows it at this stage. Gob****es will leave it till next Thurs or Fri and have everyone in a panic

TheValeyard · 21-10-2020 07:08PM

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Oh I know there's no official information but everyone knows it at this stage. Gob****es will leave it till next Thurs or Fri and have everyone in a panic

Was probably always the plan. But they'd never announce it with the Level 5 plan. Probably be too much for people to handle in one speech. So, let level 5 sink in, people get used to it, then announce extension of mid term.

joe40 · 21-10-2020 07:11PM

Northern Ireland is a lot worse than here so the two week school closure should give some indication of how schools affect the spread.

I know 2 weeks is short time but might give some indication.

Icyseanfitz · 21-10-2020 07:12PM

TheValeyard wrote: »

Was probably always the plan. But they'd never announce it with the Level 5 plan. Probably be too much for people to handle in one speech. So, let level 5 sink in, people get used to it, then announce extension of mid term.

I don't see it lads, government are too far down the rabbit hole at this stage, they will never admit schools could be an issue in my opinion, much like many of the posters here on boards tbh.

irishblessing · 21-10-2020 07:27PM

political analyst wrote: »

Closing the schools in March increased the spread of the virus because it meant that there were many children hanging around in public spaces.

Ha.. what?! So they stopped being able to contract and spread the virus inside a closed room with often more than 30 others? And the primary children without masks who are shown in studies to contract and spread the virus at least as well as adults do are now hanging around in confined spaces with far more children than they ever would down the road? The logic here is baffling.

And of course blanch liked it and found no fault with that reasoning. Lol.

Icyseanfitz · 21-10-2020 07:34PM

irishblessing wrote: »

Ha.. what?! So they stopped being able to contract and spread the virus inside a closed room with often more than 30 others? And the primary children without masks who are shown in studies to contract and spread the virus at least as well as adults do are now hanging around in confined spaces with far more children than they ever would down the road? The logic here is baffling.

And of course blanch liked it and found no fault with that reasoning. Lol.

And all this without even acknowledging that parents should be bloody supervising their kids when their at home.

irishblessing · 21-10-2020 07:34PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

There is no official information on this. Now it wouldn't surprise me if it was announced late next week during midterm.

I've already organised with the sun taking my class that all books are to go home on Friday as a just in case. The online platform is already up and running and been tested by the children. All just in case.

Our school principal confirmed to me yesterday that school books are being sent home with children on Friday "just in case." Online learning is ready to go.

Thats me · 21-10-2020 07:36PM

irishblessing wrote: »

Ha.. what?! So they stopped being able to contract and spread the virus inside a closed room with often more than 30 others?

There is some logics in it.. When you have outbreak in some class - it is easy to establish contacts and localise issue. If children are playing together outside school as it was often seen during first spike - infection being spread on uncotrolled manner outside of limited set of people.

irishblessing · 21-10-2020 07:39PM

Thats me wrote: »

There is some logics in it.. When you have outbreak in some class - it is easy to establish contacts and localise issue. If children are playing together outside school as it was often seen during first spike - infection being spread on uncotrolled manner outside of limited set of people.

Maybe you missed the news and reality that contact tracing and testing has completely failed our school community, and collapsed? Not so easy, it turns out. And also, children have no social distancing happening in the school yard at break either. Lastly, parents and children would know the few kids they play with and come into close contact with. Their contacts are far more limited outside schools than in.

MOH · 21-10-2020 07:41PM

Deleted User wrote: »

There were nearly 7000 cases last week. The fact there were only 46 outbreaks in schools attended by 20% of our population doesn't look particularly high

There were 46 clusters attributed to schools. 80% of the clusters magically appeared at home.

Either tap water needs to be tested, or they're coming from somewhere.

babybuilder · 21-10-2020 07:45PM

joe40 wrote: »

My opinion on this is that I believe there is a very high likelihood that transmission will occur in schools. The numbers make it inevitable. I hope govt will be honest.

However as a parent and teacher (secondary) it is important that schools are kept open. Predicted grades are not suitable and would be even harder this year. Education is vital for our society. Teachers and everyone working in schools should be given whatever protection is required but schools must be kept open.
The virus is going to be with us for months/years closing school is not viable.

Having your cake and eating it. Honest to God the logic of what you're saying. Sounding like a TD, ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country. You'll go far.

Schools closed until February? (part 3)

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