Schools closed until February? (part 3)

20-10-2020 06:05PM

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Why on earth aren’t the media covering incidents like this...

same reason they don't cover the Gardaí breaking rules
Same reason they don't ask the correct questions like age, setting and underlying conditions of the dead anymore
Same reason they don't ask why the "BUBBLE" system has been cast aside in schools.

They claim to support front line workers but this veil of passive censorship is slipping just far enough for RTE to piss down the back of Irish peoples necks!

George lee, a failed politician now turned science correspondent...really economics?? that's known as the "dismal science" in science circles!
JOKE!

HerrKuehn · 20-10-2020 06:13PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Good man yourself. Look at how many journalists are now working within government circles. The information is out there.

but surely some of the journalists who don't want to move into PR would break ranks and try to make a name for themselves?

wirelessdude01 · 20-10-2020 06:20PM

HerrKuehn wrote: »

but surely some of the journalists who don't want to move into PR would break ranks and try to make a name for themselves?

That is a good question and one I cannot answer. Could be that if they go too far in questionig the likes of data relating to schools that their govt sources will stop leaking information to them. Maybe they just want a easy life? Who knows. All w

JP100 · 20-10-2020 06:22PM

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Level 3 might be working.

What nonsense is this?! Only posted a few hours ago!

HerrKuehn · 20-10-2020 06:22PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

That is a good question and one I cannot answer. Could be that if they go too far in questionig the likes of data relating to schools that their govt sources will stop leaking information to them. Maybe they just want a easy life? Who knows. All w

Or maybe your theory about the omerta is all in your head?

wirelessdude01 · 20-10-2020 06:29PM

HerrKuehn wrote: »

Or maybe your theory about the omerta is all in your head?

What are you theories about why they hardly ask any questions?

eagle eye · 20-10-2020 06:35PM

meeeeh wrote:

Are you sure it's not a bit drafty on that high horse.

Just because I say what I see you say I'm on a high horse?
I'm looking at people driving 2 year old Range Rovers who I know can't possibly afford to drive them unless they are paying back a huge loan on top of their mortgage. Most of these people are out dining and drinking, during normal times, weekly as well.
I'm driving a 08 X-trail. I want to drive a newish Range Rover, always been a target of mine but I won't be doing it until I have the cash.
It'll be a while yet because a second property as a nest egg for my kids is the primary target.
Anyways all you did was suggest I'm on a high horse but no response as regards long term national health and economic well-being.

HerrKuehn · 20-10-2020 06:36PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

What are you theories about why they hardly ask any questions?

I don't have any theory and I don't know that they ask hardly any questions. Why? You brought it up, I was just pointing out how unrealistic it sounded.

MOH · 20-10-2020 06:42PM

blanch152 wrote: »

If that story is true, that 30 teachers in one school were notified as close contacts, then the school's implementation of the Department's regulations on Covid was deeply flawed. The Board of Management and the Principal need to answer for that.

Unless it was the teachers having a house party to mark being back at school.

After googling, I'm assuming this is the incident you're referring to.
You seem to not understand how the app works. 30 people individually got notifications that they were a close contact of a person who tested positive. Not necessarily the same person - there's no way of telling that from the app.
The app is also imperfect and will generate false positive for close contacts - I'm sitting at home alone in a one-bed apartment which I haven't left all day, I can see nearly a dozen bluetooth devices from neighbouring apartments, at least half of which are probably phones. If all of them had the tracing app installed and I tested positive and uploaded my app tokens, most of those would get close contact notifications.
Apply something similar to a school situation and it's bound to generate a load of false positive. From the article it sounds like the subsequent investigation determined most had not actually had any close contact with the one staff member who had tested positive.

Trying to use this as a stick to beat teachers over the head with for imaginary
breaches of protocol is laughable.

blanch152 wrote: »

The only lack of respect being shown on this thread is the lack of respect from some teachers and parents for the expertise of the public health specialists who have determined that schools are safe to open.

The same public health specialists who said we'd be performing 100k tests a week from mid-May (achieved mid-October)? And that thanks to our improved infrastructure we should be able to avoid a future national lockdown by swiftly contact tracing clusters and quickly isolating close contacts?

Those guys?

downthemiddle · 20-10-2020 06:46PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

What was he saying?

I can guarantee you that he used his favourite word, I, on numerous occasions.

Smacruairi · 20-10-2020 07:04PM

HerrKuehn wrote: »

I don't have any theory and I don't know that they ask hardly any questions. Why? You brought it up, I was just pointing out how unrealistic it sounded.

Stephen Donnelly alone hired 2 former journos only the other month. Collette sexton and Susan Mitchell. He hired these as "consultants" for the department of health, though they had made their names in the business post and the Sunday Times. You learn these things when you ask questions and hold people accountable.

Roles as advisors to the govt are extremely well reimbursed, so therefore it is perfectly acceptable to wonder why the media is so cosy with our tds, particularly when Sean o rourke was frequenting golfgate etc.

Or you can throw around phrases like "qanon".

HerrKuehn · 20-10-2020 07:07PM

Smacruairi wrote: »

Stephen Donnelly alone hired 2 former journos only the other month. Collette sexton and Susan Mitchell. He hired these as "consultants" for the department of health, though they had made their names in the business post and the Sunday Times. You learn these things when you ask questions and hold people accountable.

Roles as advisors to the govt are extremely well reimbursed, so therefore it is perfectly acceptable to wonder why the media is so cosy with our tds, particularly when Sean o rourke was frequenting golfgate etc.

Or you can throw around phrases like "qanon".

Here is the independent covering the Tarbert school: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/department-of-education-instructs-principal-to-re-open-school-he-closed-because-of-covid-39647433.html

No conspiracy it seems. I wasn't suggesting that they don't hire former journalists, just pointing out that it is ridiculous that no journalists will cover these stories as they are hoping to get a PR position.

Smacruairi · 20-10-2020 07:16PM

HerrKuehn wrote: »

Here is the independent covering the Tarbert school: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/department-of-education-instructs-principal-to-re-open-school-he-closed-because-of-covid-39647433.html

No conspiracy it seems. I wasn't suggesting that they don't hire former journalists, just pointing out that it is ridiculous that no journalists will cover these stories as they are hoping to get a PR position.

We have had days upon days of articles about fungi the flipping dolphin, yet only now have the cmo come out to discuss numbers in schools... After we had to go to a level 5... Which the govt pushed back against only a wet week ago. But yeah Harris playing a blinder etc.

Lillyfae · 20-10-2020 07:26PM

MOH wrote: »

Apply something similar to a school situation and it's bound to generate a load of false positive. From the article it sounds like the subsequent investigation determined most had not actually had any close contact with the one staff member who had tested positive.

Trying to use this as a stick to beat teachers over the head with for imaginary
breaches of protocol is laughable.

Nobody’s genuinely using that situation to highlight guideline breaches, teachers here have been raising it periodically as proof of a cover up though. You’d have to explain to some people that Bluetooth goes through walls

irishblessing · 20-10-2020 07:33PM

HerrKuehn wrote: »

Here is the independent covering the Tarbert school: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/department-of-education-instructs-principal-to-re-open-school-he-closed-because-of-covid-39647433.html

No conspiracy it seems. I wasn't suggesting that they don't hire former journalists, just pointing out that it is ridiculous that no journalists will cover these stories as they are hoping to get a PR position.

What a stunning piece of investigative journalism. :rolleyes: I'll bet that was written solely based off the published letter online because there is literally no other information. The journalist did not seem to have reached out to the principal to find out why he acted independently, and omitted the part in his letter that says he made a decision to close the school "for the reasons as outlined in my previous correspondence." So what was in the correspondence? The fact that he could not get a hold of the HSE? Some other reason(s)? Nothing about the public comments posted by the parents in support of the decision, what the HSE callously said about "fear of the virus" and not supporting those students and families, and nothing about remote learning welcomed and working well.

Why wasn't there a deeper dive into this?

Jucifer · 20-10-2020 07:34PM

Maybe once numbers start to fall in the community due to L5 the test and trace system can utilise the extra capacity to focus more on schools and put this argument to bed one way or another. Until then the discussions seem to be at an impasse.

irishblessing · 20-10-2020 07:39PM

Jucifer wrote: »

Maybe once numbers start to fall in the community due to L5 the test and trace system can utilise the extra capacity to focus more on schools and put this argument to bed one way or another. Until then the discussions seem to be at an impasse.

Perhaps if they had done this in the first place, transmissions wouldn't be as high as they are now and we all wouldn't be at L5...

downthemiddle · 20-10-2020 07:39PM

Lillyfae wrote: »

Nobody’s genuinely using that situation to highlight guideline breaches, teachers here have been raising it periodically as proof of a cover up though. You’d have to explain to some people that Bluetooth goes through walls

And yet you are thanking posts by the very poster who is doing exactly that.

Smacruairi · 20-10-2020 07:40PM

Jucifer wrote: »

Maybe once numbers start to fall in the community due to L5 the test and trace system can utilise the extra capacity to focus more on schools and put this argument to bed one way or another. Until then the discussions seem to be at an impasse.

I agree about an impasse, and that's why we are looking for better tracing and testing, but that seems to be one of the first measures to be taken from schools which were meant to protect. Went to get the flu jab from the local pharmacy, nah, not a front line worker, come back in 2 weeks as stocks are low. Des didn't even recommend masks at the start of this, had to be strong armed into it by parents groups! So you can see why there is a frustration surely?

Smacruairi · 20-10-2020 07:44PM

downthemiddle wrote: »

And yet you are thanking posts by the very poster who is doing exactly that.

Youre talking about a poster who said students shouldn't be afraid of melting in the rain, when they insisted that classes should take place outdoors to socially distance.

Lillyfae · 20-10-2020 07:54PM

Smacruairi wrote: »

Youre talking about a poster who said students shouldn't be afraid of melting in the rain, when they insisted that classes should take place outdoors to socially distance.

That’s not what I said though. I said a walk to get out of the classroom, while wearing a raincoat when it’s drizzling doesn’t harm anyone, teachers and students won’t melt.

The level of over exaggeration is a large part of the problem in this thread.

Smacruairi · 20-10-2020 08:03PM

When asked on procedures to make schooling safe, your response was:

"Cut down on interactions- close staff room, meetings done remotely
use *quiet voices- microphones, go outside- self explanatory, it's not raining all the time, given correct ppe gear- wasn't there funding allocated? is it already gone? clean surfaces properly- why would this be difficult?"

The response to this from a poster was:
"Depending on where you are in the country, it's raining half the time. It's not a workable solution for many hundreds of students per school."

Your response was:
"True, but much of the time it's drizzle. Children and teachers aren't made of sugar, and can wear raincoats."

Your "oh i meant a walk" was not until i called your comment disgraceful. It was then explained that having 1000 kids all going for random walks in the rain wasn't practical, but you ignored that completely.

You talk about bombas and hyperbole when you should really be talking about posters own inability to hold their hand up and say they were wrong. In this case, you most certainly were, and the fact that you think education in this country can be facilitated by a walk in the rain is exactly why we dismiss the nonsense that comes from your mouth. That along with "thanking" the countless numbers of posters who have been carded or threadbanned for trolling reveals your true intentions to undermine efforts on behalf of parents students and teachers to build a safer school community. Your hopes that this comment would slip into the pages upon pages of rhetoric are illfounded - you do not have child welfare at the forefront of your mind.

Lillyfae · 20-10-2020 08:18PM

Smacruairi wrote: »

That along with "thanking" the countless numbers of posters who have been carded or threadbanned for trolling reveals your true intentions to undermine efforts on behalf of parents students and teachers to build a safer school community. Your hopes that this comment would slip into the pages upon pages of rhetoric are illfounded - you do not have child welfare at the forefront of your mind.

So who was carded or threadbanned? I distinctly remember a couple of your crew being carded alright.

The rest, hysterical use of large words to try and stamp out any kind of opposition. You’d want to look inward if you’re calling out my prioritization of child welfare when you think every child would have an equal opportunity in “hybrid” education whatever tf that even means.

Smacruairi · 20-10-2020 08:27PM

So your response to me highlighting your approach is:
1. "what about your lot"
2. calling my style hysterical, and saying I'm trying to censor people? (which words were "large"?)
3. "i know you are but what am i".

Hybrid referred to a hybrid approach of in person classes and remote platforms, though I'm 100% sure you knew that. I think I'll leave it at that.

downthemiddle · 20-10-2020 08:41PM

Lillyfae wrote: »

So who was carded or threadbanned? I distinctly remember a couple of your crew being carded alright.

The rest, hysterical use of large words to try and stamp out any kind of opposition. You’d want to look inward if you’re calling out my prioritization of child welfare when you think every child would have an equal opportunity in “hybrid” education whatever tf that even means.

What a load of sanctimonious, self serving, dishonest claptrap. You hide behind other posters, thanking posts which have led to them being carded and banned. You dismiss the experiences of those who work on a daily basis to keep schools open and children safe. You have shown nothing to suggest that child welfare is your priority in your posting.
For someone who claims they have no investment in Irish education you are deeply committed to finding fault with the current experiences in Irish schools.
Sorry - Edited to add the obligatory smilie

wirelessdude01 · 20-10-2020 08:46PM

downthemiddle wrote: »

For someone who claims they have no investment in Irish education you are deeply committed to finding fault with the current experiences in Irish schools.

This is the bit I don't get.

Like I have nieces and nephews in the Australian school system but I don't spend my time on their version of boards arguing the toss with teachers about their education systems approch to covid.

Jucifer · 20-10-2020 09:41PM

Smacruairi wrote: »

I agree about an impasse, and that's why we are looking for better tracing and testing, but that seems to be one of the first measures to be taken from schools which were meant to protect. Went to get the flu jab from the local pharmacy, nah, not a front line worker, come back in 2 weeks as stocks are low. Des didn't even recommend masks at the start of this, had to be strong armed into it by parents groups! So you can see why there is a frustration surely?

I certainly do and my wife is a teacher with very high risk family member so I share concerns. I haven’t been very active on this thread but I have stated I believe more testing is needed. I originally believed that there was a huge amount being undetected in schools but recent stats on positivity rates in schools left me questioning that.

I can’t see how only testing very close contacts would lower the positivity rate. If anything it might increase it. That is assuming the people they are testing really are the closest contacts in the schools. I am a bit less concerned but still believe more testing is needed to understand the true rate.

The_Brood · 20-10-2020 09:50PM

I am ready and willing to be corrected if I am wrong. But the govts position looks like a complete cover up.

Which school kids exactly are being tested? Is it only those that report possible symptoms and those traced as possible close contacts? If so it then completely makes sense why you will get few tests and few positive results. The reality I believe is happening is that massive amount of kids are spreading the virus without anyone knowing it because of a lack of symptoms.

If there is no true random testing than these reports by the government are a purposeful cover-up.

meeeeh · 20-10-2020 09:51PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Just because I say what I see you say I'm on a high horse?
I'm looking at people driving 2 year old Range Rovers who I know can't possibly afford to drive them unless they are paying back a huge loan on top of their mortgage. Most of these people are out dining and drinking, during normal times, weekly as well.
I'm driving a 08 X-trail. I want to drive a newish Range Rover, always been a target of mine but I won't be doing it until I have the cash.
It'll be a while yet because a second property as a nest egg for my kids is the primary target.
Anyways all you did was suggest I'm on a high horse but no response as regards long term national health and economic well-being.

I can't say I'm that interested in what people do with their or borrowed money. And I have no desire to explain to anyone who finds themselves in financial difficulty what they did wrong years ago. I prefer solutions than to reprimand others (or myself) for something that can't be changed.

As for your plan how to save economy I don't think keeping schools open will make one bit of difference either way. I'm not sure the second lockdown will work anyway because large enough parts of society are not buying into it. I didn't reply to your claim because I couldn't be bothered looking for information that would either rebuff your or support my beliefs. It would be an argument about what you think and what I think without one bit of hard data between the two us so I didn't bother and I don't intend to bother. There are so many different approaches to this in different countries it's really hard to know what works but it is important to point out some other countries managed before better with less draconian measures.

Scoondal · 20-10-2020 09:53PM

HerrKuehn wrote: »

By "drop out" I was of course referring to university students. With respect to schools, I think remote learning for primary school is complete nonsense. I think any parent that would engage with it would have no problem finding reading/maths material for the kids to work on themselves. The parents the who would be unable to do this, would not engage with it anyway. I think if primary schools need to close, they should take time off and try to make it up later. Reduce xmas, easter etc.
For secondary I would expect that motivated older kids should be ok with remote learning. Kids from disadvantaged backgrounds will probably disengage.

The "remote learning" was laughable in my child's class last April. They are trying to get it going again just in case the schools are closed again. Even now, simply registering is like a proposition from Liechtenstein. Ridiculous.

Schools closed until February? (part 3)

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