Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings

joeguevara · 20-10-2020 11:59AM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

It’s been renewed, and the guards objected to the renewal and it’s going to a hearing. But as of now, they have a licence. This is effectively an appeal of that renewal!

You are correct that the establishment is currently licenced and has the ability to trader with the undertaking to be Covid Compliant was dependent on the level of restriction. When we were renewing our licence there was never any formal objection so didn’t know what the process was so probably most would have assumed it to be the process you outlined. The legislation doesn’t clearly set out the process either, and assuming it is outlined in Court process.

The Law Society have a great article on it which explains it in full. https://www.lawsociety.ie/Solicitors/Practising/Practice-Notes/Renewal-of-Liquor-Licences-1992---Tax-Clearance-Certificate/#.X46_JS14X4A

If there is a formal objection either from the Gardai or a member of the public, the court will consider whether it has merit and is it an arguable case. If it doesn’t meet an appropriate standard, the judge will dismiss it and provide a compliance certificate. You can then automatically renew with Revenue after paying the fee based on turnover and a tax free certificate.

If the objection has merit, it will be put forward for hearing and evidence will be presented. In such circumstances (as in Berlin D2) the existing licence is temporarily extended until the outcome of the case. If the objection is upheld then it could mean the loss of licence. If it not upheld then it’s the same as paragraph above. .

AUDI20 · 20-10-2020 12:06PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Latest from Europe as restrictions gather pace and lock downs are being announced

Is just the start. Ireland is just ahead of the curve this time.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/oct/20/coronavirus-live-news-who-says-failure-to-quarantine-behind-soaring-case-rises

Be careful, these stories won't suit its not an emergency brigade stance.

AUDI20 · 20-10-2020 12:08PM

greengrass88 wrote: »

Thinking of leaving Dublin today or tomorrow and heading to the folks (other side of the country) for the duration of this lockdown...if I get stopped at a checkpoint can I just say I'm heading home?

You will be grand, the 5K don't come into effect till Thursday.

Ginger n Lemon · 20-10-2020 12:09PM

Penfailed wrote: »

Oh, I don't know. I'd guess it's that Covid pandemic thing that's going on. Maybe you don't realise...it's why NPHET were set up.

Another smarta*s response. Dont disappoint

That covid pandemic thing going on for 8 months now. A bit worrying isnt it? A virus with mortality rate of 0.14% is causing an 8 month long emergency?

Ginger n Lemon · 20-10-2020 12:11PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Have RTE gone back to STAY LOCAL yet?

Or maybe they'll go with the new narrative SAVE XMAS instead?

I can definitely see RTE announcing that in bold.

When do we clap for HSE? They were working hard in empty hospitals back in March and April. Heroes

froog · 20-10-2020 12:11PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Another smarta*s response. Dont disappoint

That covid pandemic thing going on for 8 months now. A bit worrying isnt it? A virus with mortality rate of 0.14% is causing an 8 month long emergency?

Where are you getting 0.14 from?? Dangerous lies.

greengrass88 · 20-10-2020 12:12PM

AUDI20 wrote: »

You will be grand, the 5K don't come into effect till Thursday.

Just conscious that they dont want us leaving the county, but I think I'll go for it

Ginger n Lemon · 20-10-2020 12:13PM

froog wrote: »

Where are you getting 0.14 from?? Dangerous lies.

WHO. confirmed study showing 10% + of population already had covid.

The death number worldwide you can get from google search. and then hopefully you know which figure to divide by which

Penfailed · 20-10-2020 12:24PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Another smarta*s response. Dont disappoint

That covid pandemic thing going on for 8 months now. A bit worrying isnt it? A virus with mortality rate of 0.14% is causing an 8 month long emergency?

I'm not here to quibble over whether it's an actual emergency now, or not. I'm pointing out that it's why NPHET were set up. It's their raison d'être.

froog · 20-10-2020 12:26PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

WHO. confirmed study showing 10% + of population already had covid.

The death number worldwide you can get from google search. and then hopefully you know which figure to divide by which

The WHO estimated fatality rate is 0.6%. But you already know that.

And its worked out with a fair bit of maths. Not your back of a fag packet "calculation".

Seanachai · 20-10-2020 12:27PM

greengrass88 wrote: »

Thinking of leaving Dublin today or tomorrow and heading to the folks (other side of the country) for the duration of this lockdown...if I get stopped at a checkpoint can I just say I'm heading home?

Even when the lockdown kicks in you can still leave the county for essential travel such as caring for relatives, emergencies, work etc. Unless you're in a car full of lads looking shifty it's highly unlikely they'll turn you around.

bucketybuck · 20-10-2020 12:28PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I can definitely see RTE announcing that in bold.

When do we clap for HSE? They were working hard in empty hospitals back in March and April. Heroes

Better hold off a bit, now we're hearing that doctors aren't actually doctors we'll need to clarify exactly who gets the claps going forward.

walus · 20-10-2020 12:31PM

I need to go up and down to Belfast from Cork next week by car. I’m not sure about the level of gardai obstruction that will be put in place and fines for leaving my 5km radius. Not that I care too much but Belfast is a 4.5h drive and I don’t want to get stuck at multiple check points because I will not turn this around in one day. Also, will they fine me just once and give a receipt, so that once fined I’m good to go, or each subsequent gardai will issue his fine? Just interested in how you see this issue.

The trip has to happen. Technically I'll be leaving the country. So if I'm still liable for fines, so should be those who fly out as well, right?

Allinall · 20-10-2020 12:37PM

walus wrote: »

I need to go up and down to Belfast from Cork next week by car. I’m not sure about the level of gardai obstruction that will be put in place and fines for leaving my 5km radius. Not that I care too much but Belfast is a 4.5h drive and I don’t want to get stuck at multiple check points because I will not turn this around in one day. Also, will they fine me just once and give a receipt, so that once fined I’m good to go, or each subsequent gardai will issue his fine? Just interested in how you see this issue.

The trip has to happen. Technically I'll be leaving the country. So if I'm still liable for fines, so should be those who fly out as well, right?

On what basis does it "have to happen"? That's the important question.

As regards the bolded bit. Do you seriously have to ask?
If you get a speeding fine, does that then give you carte blanche to drive at 200 km/h for the rest of your journey?

The Continental Op · 20-10-2020 12:39PM

Allinall wrote: »

On what basis does it "have to happen"? That's the important question.

As regards the bolded bit. Do you seriously have to ask?
If you get a speeding fine, does that then give you carte blanche to drive at 200 km/h for the rest of your journey?

The speeding is multiple offences once out of your 5km zone its the same offence multiple times.

walus · 20-10-2020 12:43PM

Allinall wrote: »

On what basis does it "have to happen"? That's the important question.

As regards the bolded bit. Do you seriously have to ask?
If you get a speeding fine, does that then give you carte blanche to drive at 200 km/h for the rest of your journey?

I understand what you saying, but those two things are not actually equal in my book anyway.

Hammer Archer · 20-10-2020 12:51PM

I'm currently sitting in a hotel in Dublin waiting for a call from my wife who's about to give birth to our second child. She's freaking out and I can't be there to comfort until she goes into theatre. Once the baby is born, I'll have around 30 minutes or so with them both before being booted out the door again. I can then visit from 5 until 7 this evening before having to leave. There's no guarantee that I will be able to visit them on Thursday at all with the new restrictions. And that breaks my heart. All I want to do is help look after my daughter and wife while the latter recovers from major surgery.

Throughout the pregnancy, I haven't been allowed accompany her to appointments for emotional support, despite her being very nervous (she's lost more than one pregnancy in the past). Once we bring baby home, we're likely not going to get a single visitor until December the earliest.

Yet we're probably the luckier expectant parents in all this. For our first child, my wife was in labour for over 48 hours with me by her side for the entire time. I cannot imagine either of us going through that alone but that will probably happen to countless couples. Then you have the horror of women going into appointments alone and being told the worst news possible and having to deal with that without their partner with them. And not to mention their partners who will have to get that news over the phone and not be able to be with their partner in the room and comfort them. And not to mention the couples where one or both parties have lost jobs because of this and the added stress that will cause when expecting a new arrival.

This is not living with Covid. It's merely existing. And I'm absolutely furious that my two daughters will likely be the ones that will suffer throughout their young lives as all the destruction caused to society will have to be paid back by their generation.

Sorry for the rant. I've been getting more and more frustrated with the whole situation over the last few weeks.

Rrrrrr2 · 20-10-2020 12:54PM

Penfailed wrote: »

I'm not here to quibble over whether it's an actual emergency now, or not. I'm pointing out that it's why NPHET were set up. It's their raison d'être.

Nphets “raisin detre” is to promote themselves professionally and politically- let’s not be under any illusions about these opportunists. Are they all “working” on a charitable basis?

Anyhow great to see the strong push back against more of this already failed nonsense again this morning. I’ve a strong sense that this latest farce is going to play out very differently to March to June forced shutdown with very little appetite for it outside if the usual hypochondriac and media circle.

There’s most definitely no false illusion this time “we are all in it together “ or any of the nauseating meaningless hollow rubbish.

Penfailed · 20-10-2020 01:01PM

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Anyhow great to see the strong push back against more of this already failed nonsense again this morning. I’ve a strong sense that this latest farce is going to play out very differently to March to June forced shutdown with very little appetite for it outside if the usual hypochondriac and media circle

Is there a strong push back though? There was a fella from the ERSI (Economic and Social Research Institute) on the wireless this morning. He said that the consistent consensus is that it is being handled well by the government. When asked, "Should there be more restrictions?" 60% said 'yes', 20% said 'no' and the rest were happy with the current restrictions. Those 60% (three times more) got their wish.

hawkwing · 20-10-2020 01:02PM

froog wrote: »

Where are you getting 0.14 from?? Dangerous lies.

it's total carnage out there since March :eek: - Of the 125 deaths in the 25-64 age group, 109 had underlying conditions

3xh · 20-10-2020 01:03PM

Hammer Archer wrote: »

I'm currently sitting in a hotel in Dublin waiting for a call from my wife who's about to give birth to our second child. She's freaking out and I can't be there to comfort until she goes into theatre. Once the baby is born, I'll have around 30 minutes or so with them both before being booted out the door again. I can then visit from 5 until 7 this evening before having to leave. There's no guarantee that I will be able to visit them on Thursday at all with the new restrictions. And that breaks my heart. All I want to do is help look after my daughter and wife while the latter recovers from major surgery.

Throughout the pregnancy, I haven't been allowed accompany her to appointments for emotional support, despite her being very nervous (she's lost more than one pregnancy in the past). Once we bring baby home, we're likely not going to get a single visitor until December the earliest.

Yet we're probably the luckier expectant parents in all this. For our first child, my wife was in labour for over 48 hours with me by her side for the entire time. I cannot imagine either of us going through that alone but that will probably happen to countless couples. Then you have the horror of women going into appointments alone and being told the worst news possible and having to deal with that without their partner with them. And not to mention their partners who will have to get that news over the phone and not be able to be with their partner in the room and comfort them. And not to mention the couples where one or both parties have lost jobs because of this and the added stress that will cause when expecting a new arrival.

This is not living with Covid. It's merely existing. And I'm absolutely furious that my two daughters will likely be the ones that will suffer throughout their young lives as all the destruction caused to society will have to be paid back by their generation.

Sorry for the rant. I've been getting more and more frustrated with the whole situation over the last few weeks.

Mate, you really need to understand these latest requests to comply with some new guidelines.

I can’t answer for hospital visiting times but if family want to see you and you want to see family, there are exemptions for it. There’s nothing announced last night that’ll stop this from happening. Relax.

Give your other child hope that they can visit extended family next weekend or that they’re coming over to visit them after school some day. They’ll pick up on your depressed tone and feel worried somebody’s stopping them from seeing family.

Local hospital restrictions aside, there is no change here regarding family visits. As I said, read up on the exemptions.

end of the road · 20-10-2020 01:07PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I’ve said from the start that we either keep locking down until there is a vaccine or the money runs out.

The vaccines look like they won’t provide immunity so I don’t believe they’ll end this. Unless the narrative can be spun. For example, removing probable and possible deaths. Not including already dying folk in the deaths.

We are likely waiting on our money to run out and then we will be forced to live with Covid.

Let’s pray the borrowers start refusing us credit!

we are already living with covid.
living with covid equals restrictions to minimise the spread of the virus, and protect what we can.

Captain_Crash wrote: »

If the government use the same defence as they did against Ryanair, the restrictions are finished that second! We’ll find out soon hopefully!

Regarding rules v guidelines... this isn’t advice at all as although I studied law, I don’t practice and went a different career route. However, I’m still in contact with several class mates from college who do practice, and this came up in conversation a while back after Berlin D2 got a renewal. The thought is that although they flouted guidelines, pub licences have requirements attached and because they got a renewal it’s likely they didn’t break any of the licensing requirements! If this is the case, and again it’s only theory, but educated theory the restricting may just be guidelines! Ryanair may have been very clever in that they may have railroaded government in that case!

everyone knew that the travel "restrictions" were guidelines as this was made clear.
ryanair got their arses handed to them in the courts, not sure how that was clever or railroading government.

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Covid has not killed 1.12m. 1.12 m (vast majority of whom were over the age of 80) have died while (or after) testing positive for PCR test.

Turn off RTE. Really.

WHO says otherwise.
RTE is fine, it's generally a reliable source.

Idbatterim wrote: »

it makes sense why there are no income tax related hikes or PS pay cuts etc, imagine the backlash if they did, they need as much public buy in as possible! These same fools if you touched their income now, would have a fit! YET, YET the endless billons being squandered, is actually coming out of their pockets, in terms of future higher taxation... or no income tax cuts etc, where there would have been. Room for no or less pay increases...

there were never going to be tax cuts, tax cuts are not viable in a country which already pays low tax rates.
if you think billions are being wasted now, you would be in for a shock if we went with whatever plan you would like.

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

when do they ever not whinge to be fair this is like christmas for them

they never whinge, they make legitimate complaints and highlight legitimate issues.
and to be fair, there are a hell of a lot of those within the education system.

Kermit.de.frog · 20-10-2020 01:10PM

AUDI20 wrote: »

Be careful, these stories won't suit its not an emergency brigade stance.

Good to see some of these broadcasters turned epidemiologists being challenged across the water.

https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1318263232688234496

Need to see more of this from politicians in our own country. Don't put up with it. Call them out.

froog · 20-10-2020 01:12PM

hawkwing wrote: »

it's total carnage out there since March :eek: - Of the 125 deaths in the 25-64 age group, 109 had underlying conditions

Why would you only count people below the age of 65 ffs? Old people are expendable are they?

Gael23 · 20-10-2020 01:13PM

Another year of this? https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/health-54371559

FintanMcluskey · 20-10-2020 01:19PM

Gael23 wrote: »

Another year of this? https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/health-54371559

The quickest out and back to normality is when the country is utterly broke and unable to access any funding.

Normality, but we may be eating rice rations donated by sub Saharan Africa

polesheep · 20-10-2020 01:21PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Good to see some of these commentators turned epidemiologists being challenged across the water.

https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1318263232688234496

Need to see more of this from politicians in our own country. Don't put up with it. Call them out.

Calling someone a nutcase is not calling them out. Why didn't he refute what was being said?

Rrrrrr2 · 20-10-2020 01:23PM

Talk radio in england is brilliant- lone listening to it. We have nothing like it at all here just nodding dimwits

martingriff · 20-10-2020 01:24PM

froog wrote: »

Why would you only count people below the age of 65 ffs? Old people are expendable are they?

Unfortunately yes they are to some. They call them end of life people who were probably going to die anyway. Also is probably excluded those with underlying condition as that is what killed them. Covid had no effect

Kermit.de.frog · 20-10-2020 01:26PM

polesheep wrote: »

Calling someone a nutcase is not calling them out. Why didn't he refute what was being said?

Because no evidence will ever be accepted by those people. Some times you just have to call them what they are.

They are deniers and worse - many are conspiratorial.

No evidence will ever be accepted.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings