Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings

walus · 18-10-2020 03:05PM

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Summer holidays won’t go ahead next year either- we are taking what, only 6-8 months away- absolutely nothing is changing in that time. If you can just get out of here maybe book closer to the time so you won’t get caught out of the latest prison dictats

I made mistake of trusting that the government get the travel sorted in June or July. This time I will expect nothing from them and will go ahead with my plans regardless. I felt the kids have lost big time as we all sat and watch the numbers fall scratching our heads and thinking why they did not open the economy.

bucketybuck · 18-10-2020 03:09PM

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

Which is why we need to stop the mixing of houses along with the other restrictions. It can’t spread domestically if people are not mixing with other households.

But you yourself clearly stated in this thread that you regularly go to another house?

Due to the level of idiot in this country

Indeed.

Rrrrrr2 · 18-10-2020 03:15PM

walus wrote: »

I made mistake of trusting that the government get the travel sorted in June or July. This time I will expect nothing from them and will go ahead with my plans regardless. I felt the kids have lost big time as we all sat and watch the numbers fall scratching our heads and thinking why they did not open the economy.

Yes I agree- do what you want to do if at all possible. It’s clear there is no plan bar mass panic and hysteria. Removing yourself as much as possible from that is the only way

bucketybuck · 18-10-2020 03:17PM

walus wrote: »

He was not allowed to go out and attend a funeral of his dear wife that only died 2 months earlier.

Which is another thing that I consider to be a national disgrace, people unable to attend their loved ones funerals while down the street schools will be packed, restaurants busy and all around there are people working away.

I do get it you know, there will always be contradictions in who the restrictions affect because the aim is to cut the numbers not everywhere, but where they can.

But there are some things that should be sacrosanct. The birth of your child, the death of your family, how the **** did we allow these things to get lost in all of this?

Dickheads virtue signalling about ****ing masks and other such horse**** while real people like Benny dies on his own because of all the hysteria, it makes my blood boil.

walus · 18-10-2020 03:18PM

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

No I reckon case numbers are going to keep rising and rising. I see nothing to suggest otherwise given what we know about how it’s spread- ie domestic settings

How it spreads is one thing but how positive cases are found is another issue. I think that the higher the level of restriction the less effective tracing will become as it relies less on controlled and therefore traceable environment. Because the whole process of testing and getting result takes the bones of a week people will be reluctant to do it.

MelbourneMan · 18-10-2020 03:22PM

walus wrote: »

Summer holidays couldn’t go ahead because the government had no balls to open up the country as they sat and watch the number of cases and deaths fall. Now it seems that Christmas will be a car crash whatever level or combination of various restrictions we are on at the time. Procrastination on making a call on the former is the cause for the latter.

In hindsight, we can now see that the level of opening up, and the degree to which summer holidays went or didnt go ahead was well judged. The infection rate did not rise during that time. Opening it up further or faster would have accelerate the move to the position we have now reached. On balance, quite well judged, even there has been some slowness in reacting over the last few weeks. Christmas is indeed a problem. Leastly, that it will not be possible for people to have a Christmas anyway similar to the ones they might be accustomed to, but significantly, that it poses a very very difficult covid management problem. The circuit breaker strategy has merit in this respect, but does not play into the general human tendency to postpone and hope even when the sensible odds are to pay price earlier for a more likely better overall outcome.

SusieBlue · 18-10-2020 03:26PM

I got my nails done this morning, and my nail lady was at near tears.
Her husband is a hotel manager who is out of work again as it isn’t financially viable for the hotel to open when visitors from other counties aren’t allowed.
She expects to be laid off again tomorrow when more restrictions are added and industries are closed.

Her issue is that with both of them on the PUP payment, they are concerned about how they are going to pay their (extortionate) rent as their landlord won’t grant them another payment break and they are still in arrears from the last lockdown.
She has two children who are in a crèche, and the crèche have told her that even if we go to level 5, they will likely have permission to remain open.
And if she chooses not to send her child (because she’ll be at home out of work and won’t need childcare), they will have to pay 70% of the fees to retain the child’s place.
Crèche places are scarce around here so losing their places would be a nightmare for when she and her husband eventually go back to work.

So basically her and her husband will be on the PUP payment with their income significantly reduced for the second time this year, paying full rent and huge childcare costs and Christmas is just around the corner.

How anyone can think this is an acceptable financial and emotional burden to put on vulnerable young families is beyond me.
The stories I have heard the last few days of the struggles some people are being forced into are heartbreaking. Anyone who thinks that another lockdown will be well received and adhered to is completely delusional and needs to get out of their bubble.

She also said the idea that we’d be down to level 2 for Christmas is absolutely laughable, and I agree with her. They are quick to introduce these restrictions but very very slow to remove them.
We can look forward to level 5 well into 2021 from what I can see, it’s going to be an absolutely miserable Christmas.
Some people would do well to remember that as they sit pontificating from their high horses with their well paid stable WFH jobs, secure mortgages and pensions.

18-10-2020 03:30PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

But you yourself clearly stated in this thread that you regularly go to another house?
.

Yes for reasons allowed under the restrictions and also as I’ve said we are essentially in a household bubble if you are able to understand that or do I have to explain that also?

Rrrrrr2 · 18-10-2020 03:31PM

Absolutely susie- once brought in level 5 will be there until April, slight easing perhaps to mixes of level 3/4 and that right through 2021. Rinse and repeat- this is reality based on what has gone on since March. If anything the mania has actually upped a few notches.
Only thing this time is you’ll much easier get your hair and nails done privately as most people are not interested in doing the march to June farce in full again abs will need to do a bit to survive

Penfailed · 18-10-2020 03:33PM

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

once brought in level 5 will be there until April

The fearmongering on this thread has reached new levels.

robbiezero · 18-10-2020 03:33PM

MelbourneMan wrote: »

In hindsight, we can now see that the level of opening up, and the degree to which summer holidays went or didnt go ahead was well judged. The infection rate did not rise during that time. Opening it up further or faster would have accelerate the move to the position we have now reached. On balance, quite well judged, even there has been some slowness in reacting over the last few weeks. Christmas is indeed a problem. Leastly, that it will not be possible for people to have a Christmas anyway similar to the ones they might be accustomed to, but significantly, that it poses a very very difficult covid management problem. The circuit breaker strategy has merit in this respect, but does not play into the general human tendency to postpone and hope even when the sensible odds are to pay price earlier for a more likely better overall outcome.

So surely then it was a waste of time, if not a mistake keeping us locked down as long as they did with handfuls of cases every day, seeing as we seem to have achieved absolutely nothing from delaying the inevitable.

The unnecessary length of that lockdown is almost certainly a factor in the lack of compliance now.

Rrrrrr2 · 18-10-2020 03:34PM

I don’t think pubs or that will reopen in 2021 at all. There will be no major events or sporting events

Lundstram · 18-10-2020 03:35PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

I got my nails done this morning, and my nail lady was at near tears.
Her husband is a hotel manager who is out of work again as it isn’t financially viable for the hotel to open when visitors from other counties aren’t allowed.
She expects to be laid off again tomorrow when more restrictions are added and industries are closed.

Her issue is that with both of them on the PUP payment, they are concerned about how they are going to pay their (extortionate) rent as their landlord won’t grant them another payment break and they are still in arrears from the last lockdown.
She has two children who are in a crèche, and the crèche have told her that even if we go to level 5, they will likely have permission to remain open.
And if she chooses not to send her child (because she’ll be at home out of work and won’t need childcare), they will have to pay 70% of the fees to retain the child’s place.
Crèche places are scarce around here so losing their places would be a nightmare for when she and her husband eventually go back to work.

So basically her and her husband will be on the PUP payment with their income significantly reduced for the second time this year, paying full rent and huge childcare costs and Christmas is just around the corner.

How anyone can think this is an acceptable financial and emotional burden to put on vulnerable young families is beyond me.
The stories I have heard the last few days of the struggles some people are being forced into are heartbreaking. Anyone who thinks that another lockdown will be well received and adhered to is completely delusional and needs to get out of their bubble.

She also said the idea that we’d be down to level 2 for Christmas is absolutely laughable, and I agree with her. They are quick to introduce these restrictions but very very slow to remove them.
We can look forward to level 5 well into 2021 from what I can see, it’s going to be an absolutely miserable Christmas.
Some people would do well to remember that as they sit pontificating from their high horses with their well paid stable WFH jobs, secure mortgages and pensions.

All very well for the public sector workers but if you're in the private sector, you're faith is in the generosity of your employer.

I was up in Belfast during the week, they locked up on Fridy at 6pm. Was talking to a barman and he was telling me they get 80% of their average earnings to date and they get help with rent/mortgage payments too.

Down here you could be earning €800 per week and you'll get the very same €300 PUP as someone earning €450 pw despite that higher earner paying a massive amount in income tax. That's absolutely crazy and with no help with rent/mortgages either.

No one gives a flying fcuck about these people. COVID all the way. Nothing else matters.

I'm alright, Jack.

Rrrrrr2 · 18-10-2020 03:39PM

Penfailed wrote: »

The fearmongering on this thread has reached new levels.

Not at all- Just going on the evidence and behaviour of what has gone on for the past 8 months - What is going to change suddenly from now? Absolutely nothing- so therefore it stands to reason the same pattern will apply. So I can completely back up What I’m saying by past evidence- as they say if you want to predict future behaviours just examine past ones as your best indicators. And plus we are in the winter months not summer like before so that even Underscores what I’m saying more- people fully deserve to know what they’re facing into with these lockdowns

bettyoleary · 18-10-2020 03:41PM

Real Donald Trump wrote: »

2-3 years if Mr Holohan gets his way...

Are we there yet ????? Are we there yet??????? Smacks of kids in the back of a car on a journey. It is beyond unbelievable that grown adults on here have blamed the virus on Tony Holohan, MM, Gerry Killeans. Ive seen Claire Byrne blamed a few times!!!!!!!!! RTE in general. Ive also think there should be a new thread on here for Dr Shipman apologists as there are quite a few closet ones moaning along here.
Get a grip, we cant allow the virus to ravage the country, despite how many die, many, many will become unwell and unable to work. Society wont be able to function. So if your mental health cant take 12 or so months inconvenience I suggest you get counselling for your own sakes and let the rest of us with a bit of cop on protect you as you appear to be the ones that need to lock yourselves down in bunkers or under the bed in my opinion.

walus · 18-10-2020 03:41PM

MelbourneMan wrote: »

In hindsight, we can now see that the level of opening up, and the degree to which summer holidays went or didnt go ahead was well judged. The infection rate did not rise during that time. Opening it up further or faster would have accelerate the move to the position we have now reached. On balance, quite well judged, even there has been some slowness in reacting over the last few weeks. Christmas is indeed a problem. Leastly, that it will not be possible for people to have a Christmas anyway similar to the ones they might be accustomed to, but significantly, that it poses a very very difficult covid management problem. The circuit breaker strategy has merit in this respect, but does not play into the general human tendency to postpone and hope even when the sensible odds are to pay price earlier for a more likely better overall outcome.

I disagree. It was the summer time when it was the right moment to let the virus run through the healthy portion of society. So that cases go up before we hit the flu season. Instead the zero Covid strategy was pursued, lamely at that, and hospitals were empty, I’m mean they were deserted. Now we have both waves coming together and putting more strain on a poor healthcare system. It is a lack of foresight and planning that what we currently experiencing is caused by.

faceman · 18-10-2020 03:42PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

I got my nails done this morning, and my nail lady was at near tears.
Her husband is a hotel manager who is out of work again as it isn’t financially viable for the hotel to open when visitors from other counties aren’t allowed.
She expects to be laid off again tomorrow when more restrictions are added and industries are closed.

Her issue is that with both of them on the PUP payment, they are concerned about how they are going to pay their (extortionate) rent as their landlord won’t grant them another payment break and they are still in arrears from the last lockdown.
She has two children who are in a crèche, and the crèche have told her that even if we go to level 5, they will likely have permission to remain open.
And if she chooses not to send her child (because she’ll be at home out of work and won’t need childcare), they will have to pay 70% of the fees to retain the child’s place.
Crèche places are scarce around here so losing their places would be a nightmare for when she and her husband eventually go back to work.

So basically her and her husband will be on the PUP payment with their income significantly reduced for the second time this year, paying full rent and huge childcare costs and Christmas is just around the corner.

How anyone can think this is an acceptable financial and emotional burden to put on vulnerable young families is beyond me.
The stories I have heard the last few days of the struggles some people are being forced into are heartbreaking. Anyone who thinks that another lockdown will be well received and adhered to is completely delusional and needs to get out of their bubble.

She also said the idea that we’d be down to level 2 for Christmas is absolutely laughable, and I agree with her. They are quick to introduce these restrictions but very very slow to remove them.
We can look forward to level 5 well into 2021 from what I can see, it’s going to be an absolutely miserable Christmas.
Some people would do well to remember that as they sit pontificating from their high horses with their well paid stable WFH jobs, secure mortgages and pensions.

This is the elephant in the room. I bet the realism and the widespread prevalence of people in this scenario wasnt discussed yesterday.

The gov will “ask” landlords to be understanding of tenants tomorrow. And that’ll be it

Rrrrrr2 · 18-10-2020 03:43PM

bettyoleary wrote: »

Are we there yet ????? Are we there yet??????? Smacks of kids in the back of a car on a journey. It is beyond unbelievable that grown adults on here have blamed the virus on Tony Holohan, MM, Gerry Killeans. Ive seen Claire Byrne blamed a few times!!!!!!!!! RTE in general. Ive also think there should be a new thread on here for Dr Shipman apologists as there are quite a few closet ones moaning along here.
Get a grip, we cant allow the virus to ravage the country, despite how many die, many, many will become unwell and unable to work. Society wont be able to function. So if your mental health cant take 12 or so months inconvenience I suggest you get counselling for your own sakes and let the rest of us with a bit of cop on protect you as you appear to be the ones that need to lock yourselves down in bunkers or under the bed in my opinion.

Wow. There’s such a cold callousness in some of these people. Disturbing

FintanMcluskey · 18-10-2020 03:45PM

Penfailed wrote: »

The fearmongering on this thread has reached new levels.

What is the quantifiable point at which level 5 will be introduced for and released upon?

It seems hospital numbers.

Every year Ireland’s hospitals are overcrowded during the Winter and Spring. This year will be no different.

Applying those metrics to the restrictions means level 5 will be released until next June.

Tony will make the announcement in a straw hat and Jamican shorts I hope

MadYaker · 18-10-2020 03:48PM

walus wrote: »

I disagree. It was the summer time when it was the right moment to let the virus run through the healthy portion of society. So that cases go up before we hit the flu season. Instead the zero Covid strategy was pursued, lamely at that, and hospitals were empty, I’m mean they were deserted. Now we have both waves coming together and putting more strain on a poor healthcare system. It is a lack of foresight and planning that what we currently experiencing is caused by.

We never tried to pursue a zero covid strategy. Nobody in NPHET or government said we were so I don't know where you got that from.

How do you let the virus spread through the healthy portion of society without it getting to the 30% of the population who are either over 60 or have some condition that puts them at higher risk?

Rrrrrr2 · 18-10-2020 03:49PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

What is the quantifiable point at which level 5 will be introduced for and released upon?

It seems hospital numbers.

Every year Ireland’s hospitals are overcrowded during the Winter and Spring. This year will be no different.

Applying those metrics to the restrictions means level 5 will be released until next June.

Tony will make the announcement in a straw hat and Jamican shorts I hope

Yes that’s the point I was trying to make too- if hospital numbers are the metric then level 4/5 lasts well into the summer as they’re not going to decrease through the winter early spring in any appreciable way- lockdown is here right through 2021 and beyond really as things stand- and that’s that the only metric and predictor we can go on. Once in lockdown we are stuck there

walus · 18-10-2020 03:52PM

MadYaker wrote: »

We never tried to pursue a zero covid strategy. Nobody in NPHET or government said we were so I don't know where you got that from.

How do you let the virus spread through the healthy portion of society without it getting to the 30% of the population who are either over 60 or have some condition that puts them at higher risk?

I agree they did not announce it. They did not have to. The fact that they did not state it did not mean they did not had this in mind. Even today guys like McConkey are of an opinion that 6 weeks of lockdown will get them that. He is devastated he did not get his ways I’d say. Having hospitals deserted is a massive overreaction. I recon a quarter of those 20 bn just flush down the drain would get those vulnerable well protected for 3-6 months. Focused, selected strategy. Something that was dismissed early on.

There would have been a high degree of risk but the vulnerable would have been protected in a short term. Otherwise we have low levels of protection for them in a medium level risk scenario over a very long period of time. Which is more risky?

Penfailed · 18-10-2020 04:00PM

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Not at all- Just going on the evidence and behaviour of what has gone on for the past 8 months - What is going to change suddenly from now? Absolutely nothing- so therefore it stands to reason the same pattern will apply. So I can completely back up What I’m saying by past evidence- as they say if you want to predict future behaviours just examine past ones as your best indicators. And plus we are in the winter months not summer like before so that even Underscores what I’m saying more- people fully deserve to know what they’re facing into with these lockdowns

It's completely unfeasible to shut the place down until April. It's kinda funny that the open up crowd also appear to be the most pessimistic.

bettyoleary · 18-10-2020 04:00PM

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Wow. There’s such a cold callousness in some of these people. Disturbing

Dr Shipman for CMO? Rrrrrr you in favour? Ooops I think he realized the error of his ways and left us but there plenty of candidates on here who may like to fill his shoes.

FintanMcluskey · 18-10-2020 04:05PM

Penfailed wrote: »

It's completely unfeasible to shut the place down until April. It's kinda funny that the open up crowd also appear to be the most pessimistic.

It was unfeasible for the last 7 months and it didn’t stop them.

Anyway, if it’s unfeasible for that long, what will a shorter time frame achieve?

I’m struggling to understand the lack of pragmatism towards what’s happening

SusieBlue · 18-10-2020 04:05PM

bettyoleary wrote: »

Are we there yet ????? Are we there yet??????? Smacks of kids in the back of a car on a journey. It is beyond unbelievable that grown adults on here have blamed the virus on Tony Holohan, MM, Gerry Killeans. Ive seen Claire Byrne blamed a few times!!!!!!!!! RTE in general. Ive also think there should be a new thread on here for Dr Shipman apologists as there are quite a few closet ones moaning along here.
Get a grip, we cant allow the virus to ravage the country, despite how many die, many, many will become unwell and unable to work. Society wont be able to function. So if your mental health cant take 12 or so months inconvenience I suggest you get counselling for your own sakes and let the rest of us with a bit of cop on protect you as you appear to be the ones that need to lock yourselves down in bunkers or under the bed in my opinion.

It’s not 12 months of ‘inconvenience’, it’s 12 months of hardship, financial difficulties, limited access to necessary healthcare and cancer screenings, isolation and lonliness, people dying alone in hospital, closed door funerals, fathers missing the birth of their children and women getting the worst news possible without the support of their partners, childrens education being disrupted, suicide levels and mental health issues increasing by the day, relationships suffering, families abroad being separated, employment levels plummeting and hundreds of thousands of people out of work.

That’s quite a lot more than inconvenience, the very fabric of how our society functions is being destroyed with each passing day.
It’s absolutely outrageous and ludicrous that you would expect people to put up with that indefinitely, get yourself some perspective of what you’re asking of people, I’ll give you a hint, it’s way too much and the price is simply too high.
Way more lives will be ruined and lost from all these ridiculous restrictions than the lives we have ‘saved’ from coronavirus.

MadYaker · 18-10-2020 04:08PM

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Yes that’s the point I was trying to make too- if hospital numbers are the metric then level 4/5 lasts well into the summer as they’re not going to decrease through the winter early spring in any appreciable way- lockdown is here right through 2021 and beyond really as things stand- and that’s that the only metric and predictor we can go on. Once in lockdown we are stuck there

NPHET have been trying to get the government to move the country to level 5 for almost a month now and the government have been resisting. I think it's pretty clear that they are reluctant. So saying that they will lock the entire country down for 6 months is nonsense. There's no logic to that reasoning at all.

Yeah the hospitals get busy most winters, but this is the first winter I've lived through where there is a danger they could actually be overrun and have to turn people away at emergency rooms. Has that ever happened in this country? I don't think it has.

Rrrrrr2 · 18-10-2020 04:08PM

Penfailed wrote: »

It's completely unfeasible to shut the place down until April. It's kinda funny that the open up crowd also appear to be the most pessimistic.

Well of course it's unfeasible but I've outlined why it'll be so. You haven't debunked any of what or why I have said I notice. It's nothing to do with "pessimism"- wishing the virus and the insane response/s away isn't going to change a thing. Add in the chaotic winter months in Irish hospitals then absolutely lockdown is here to stay

facehugger99 · 18-10-2020 04:10PM

Our heath service is a total joke.

Despite the money pumped into every year it is chock full of mismanagement, vested interests and obstacles to change.

We have known this for decades but there is no will amongst the politicians or electorate to force through real reform. We have been content to see billions wasted every year but this time it has really bitten us in the arse.

We should have been in a great position to deal with Covid with our young population. Instead we have implemented the most draconian and prolonged shutdown in the world and it is set to continue for months.

If this doesn't change attitudes to our health system, nothing will, but I'm betting that at the end of all this nothing will change.

Rrrrrr2 · 18-10-2020 04:10PM

bettyoleary wrote: »

Dr Shipman for CMO? Rrrrrr you in favour? Ooops I think he realized the error of his ways and left us but there plenty of candidates on here who may like to fill his shoes.

Wouldn't be any worse than someone like you- that's for sure :pac:

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings